Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm happy Gitaxian Probe is gone.
Hell, I fully expect that it's going to end up banned in Legacy as well as in Modern.
Phyrexian mana was an incredible design mistake, and Gitaxian Probe is near the top of the list for that, in my opinion.
I'm of the same mind. Phyrexian mana is a design mistake that should never have happened. Probe wasn't broken on its own but it enabled a lot more things than should be able for just two life. I'd be happy to see all the phyrexian spells banned personally just for being such color pie violators. Only like 4 see any play at all though.
Gitaxian Probe has never actually been a problem ever in Modern. If Probe were such a broken, busted, crazy card, it would have done something broken, busted, or crazy in its time legal throughout the entirety of the Modern format. Probe didn't even see much play in anything other than Infect and Grixis Delver/Control builds. It wasn't until *redacted* was banned and control ceased to exist that small creature pump aggro decks were taking over the format. The ban was specifically to hit those pump aggro decks, regardless of whatever card they chose. They just chose a card they hated, because they hate cheap efficient blue cards. And rather than see the effect Fatal Push would have on cards like Blighted Agent, Death's Shadow, and Kiln Fiend, they just ban probe and kill off the archetypes all together (while killing Delver too, just for good measure). One of several cards on the banned list that has no business being there.
In a move surprising to nobody...I disagree that all the bans are OK. I also would think discussion of unbans would be better than bans, however Wizards has shown that they dont even pay attention to Modern, they havent mentioned it the last 2 announcements I believe.
So this thread is...textual masturbation. Nothing is really being done, but we all feel better for typing it up in the end.
Our default fall back is 'Well this is too strong and the format is not to my liking'.
I had hoped that this new set would spark something fun, but I'm not sure it will. Pirate Control would be super cool, but I doubt it has legs.
I have been lurking for a while but not really posting because I am not even playing Modern at the moment. I sold out of my MTGO account and really don't care for the wild variance seen in matchups and sideboards in paper. I've been playing Commander almost exclusively, and having more fun than I had in Modern for the last year and a half.
P.Sully mentioned it a bit today on the SCG stream about format health and what constitutes "good health" and he hit the nail on the head that there are many different ways to represent health. Variety is good for some, too much variety is bad for others. I think they mentioned it briefly, but I still think the worst aspect of the format is the rise of all the best decks being miserable, narrow, difficult to interact with decks. There were a few moments of amazing gameplay decisions, but so many of the matches came down to Player A had a great matchup/great opening hand, Player B didn't, so Player A wins.
This is going to continue to be a "problem" that plagues Modern as long as decks lack better universal tools, or until a premiere "control" deck exists firmly Tier 1.
Please. We all know the reason you're not posting. Why you went from 100 posts a week to around 5. I doubt it has anything to do with "format health".
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
As of today, the Splinter Twin moratorium is over. We will try to get a new thread rolled out today, and we will also be keeping an eye on the the topic. If we fall back into the same issues, we will take more action.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." - Abraham Lincoln
In a move surprising to nobody...I disagree that all the bans are OK. I also would think discussion of unbans would be better than bans, however Wizards has shown that they dont even pay attention to Modern, they havent mentioned it the last 2 announcements I believe.
So this thread is...textual masturbation. Nothing is really being done, but we all feel better for typing it up in the end.
Our default fall back is 'Well this is too strong and the format is not to my liking'.
I had hoped that this new set would spark something fun, but I'm not sure it will. Pirate Control would be super cool, but I doubt it has legs.
I believe the second announcement back did reference modern, but only to say "Grixis Shadow is getting popular, the format is different, but it looks like there aren't any big problems." Modern is also returning to the Pro Tour, so to say WOTC pays it no attention is incorrect.
In a move surprising to nobody...I disagree that all the bans are OK. I also would think discussion of unbans would be better than bans, however Wizards has shown that they dont even pay attention to Modern, they havent mentioned it the last 2 announcements I believe.
So this thread is...textual masturbation. Nothing is really being done, but we all feel better for typing it up in the end.
Our default fall back is 'Well this is too strong and the format is not to my liking'.
I had hoped that this new set would spark something fun, but I'm not sure it will. Pirate Control would be super cool, but I doubt it has legs.
I believe the second announcement back did reference modern, but only to say "Grixis Shadow is getting popular, the format is different, but it looks like there aren't any big problems." Modern is also returning to the Pro Tour, so to say WOTC pays it no attention is incorrect.
Jesus, cfusion, probe was a good ban. You're so unbelievably biased. Dredge and infect ruled the format, shadow would have pushed that card to be banned anyway.
By the way, jeskai is a tempo beats deck that plays bolt snap bolt and cryptic commands, the complaints need to stop from you now, you have a tier 1 deck that does everything but play remand
Unless you're ready to admit you want a deck that has an oops, I win button that suppressed the format
Public Mod Note
(Xaricore):
Infraction issued for flaming — Xaricore
Not only that Probe was a good ban(which admittedly thought it was unneccesary back then) but it could also be banned in Legacy before seeing the light of Modern again. The criteria WOTC used for the ban was correct and a good understanding of the effect Gitaxian Probe presents on formats. It really does too much for too litlle cost.
Cfusion is right that Probe wasn't particularly problematic before Become Immense, but after KTK, it clearly reached its full potential and became problematic in 2016, when 3 Top Tier decks where using it to kill on T3 consistently through disruption, and all 3 where basically a different flavor of the same deck.
Control is certainly in a good spot right now(because of Death's Shadow). The metagame is being kind to it and its taking advantage. I still believe a pure reactive deck like the UW that took the Classic yesterday can't really Top 8 the GP without major help from the matchup roulette.
It will be really interesting to see how WOTC handles the format come Pro Tour Rivals of Ixalan. I still believe they can ban Shadow/Wraith and no one will be surprised. Against a format completely adapted to it, it still puts several copies in the Top 8. I guess it doesn't do it by comboing so that's good.
Jesus, cfusion, probe was a good ban. You're so unbelievably biased. Dredge and infect ruled the format, shadow would have pushed that card to be banned anyway.
By the way, jeskai is a tempo beats deck that plays bolt snap bolt and cryptic commands, the complaints need to stop from you now, you have a tier 1 deck that does everything but play remand
Unless you're ready to admit you want a deck that has an oops, I win button that suppressed the format
Gitaxian Probe was not a good ban. The goal (killing/nerfing pump aggro decks) could have just as easily been accomplished with banning Become Immense instead. Especially when combined with the printing of Fatal Push.
Let me be explicitly clear: I agree that something should have been banned out of pump aggro decks. I DO NOT agree it should have been Probe, a card that has been "powerful but fair" for the entirety of its life in Modern.
Please. We all know the reason you're not posting. Why you went from 100 posts a week to around 5. I doubt it has anything to do with "format health".
Could be that I'm back in school, teaching math to about 200 kids every day and don't have as much time for internet squabbles anymore. Could also be that I'm spending most of my limited free time enjoying Commander instead. I guess the world will never know.
Not only that Probe was a good ban(which admittedly thought it was unneccesary back then) but it could also be banned in Legacy before seeing the light of Modern again. The criteria WOTC used for the ban was correct and a good understanding of the effect Gitaxian Probe presents on formats. It really does too much for too litlle cost.
Cfusion is right that Probe wasn't particularly problematic before Become Immense, but after KTK, it clearly reached its full potential and became problematic in 2016, when 3 Top Tier decks where using it to kill on T3 consistently through disruption, and all 3 where basically a different flavor of the same deck.
Control is certainly in a good spot right now(because of Death's Shadow). The metagame is being kind to it and its taking advantage. I still believe a pure reactive deck like the UW that took the Classic yesterday can't really Top 8 the GP without major help from the matchup roulette.
It will be really interesting to see how WOTC handles the format come Pro Tour Rivals of Ixalan. I still believe they can ban Shadow/Wraith and no one will be surprised. Against a format completely adapted to it, it still puts several copies in the Top 8. I guess it doesn't do it by comboing so that's good.
EDIT:Correcting spelling mistakes.
hopefully they do some shake up's for the pro tour, This format is getting stale
A temple Ban alongside an SFM unban would do wonders for this format Imo.
Not only that Probe was a good ban(which admittedly thought it was unneccesary back then) but it could also be banned in Legacy before seeing the light of Modern again. The criteria WOTC used for the ban was correct and a good understanding of the effect Gitaxian Probe presents on formats. It really does too much for too litlle cost.
Cfusion is right that Probe wasn't particularly problematic before Become Immense, but after KTK, it clearly reached its full potential and became problematic in 2016, when 3 Top Tier decks where using it to kill on T3 consistently through disruption, and all 3 where basically a different flavor of the same deck.
Control is certainly in a good spot right now(because of Death's Shadow). The metagame is being kind to it and its taking advantage. I still believe a pure reactive deck like the UW that took the Classic yesterday can't really Top 8 the GP without major help from the matchup roulette.
It will be really interesting to see how WOTC handles the format come Pro Tour Rivals of Ixalan. I still believe they can ban Shadow/Wraith and no one will be surprised. Against a format completely adapted to it, it still puts several copies in the Top 8. I guess it doesn't do it by comboing so that's good.
EDIT:Correcting spelling mistakes.
hopefully they do some shake up's for the pro tour, This format is getting stale
A temple Ban alongside an SFM unban would do wonders for this format Imo.
As of today, the Splinter Twin moratorium is over. We will try to get a new thread rolled out today, and we will also be keeping an eye on the the topic. If we fall back into the same issues, we will take more action.
not allowing the conversation to involve that topic was extreme.
Sure if someone on a daily basis argues its return and never ceases. Then they can be asked to not dilute everything to that.
But if noone can even speak the word splinter twin in this forum just because people don't want to hear the word is nonsensical. And is a very fascist way of running a thread that should allow civil conversation about everything pertaining to modern. This has gotten ridiculous and pathetic on the mods behalf.
The mods.. Whom Ban people for standing up and retaliate versus harsh flaming. after Thier reports of flaming are never met by the bias mods who favor those who agree with them. Like seriously this is the rudest most arrogant and pretentious forum I have ever been on.
And while there are great ppl on here. there are some I wonder how they function in society with such ignorant and rude behavior(either that or they are just keyboard warriors)
Later fellas it's been good at times and bad at times.
Just walk away if the thread doesn't provide what you want.
Fact is, this thread is an outlet for venting steam. That's it. We do not shape policy. We do not present arguments based on fact (with 2 or 3 exceptions) and even people who are reasonable 99% of the time knee-jerk right off the deep end of someone dares to imply their pet deck is borderline too good.
As of today, the Splinter Twin moratorium is over. We will try to get a new thread rolled out today, and we will also be keeping an eye on the the topic. If we fall back into the same issues, we will take more action.
not allowing the conversation to involve that topic was extreme.
Sure if someone on a daily basis argues its return and never ceases. Then they can be asked to not dilute everything to that.
But if noone can even speak the word splinter twin in this forum just because people don't want to hear the word is nonsensical. And is a very fascist way of running a thread that should allow civil conversation about everything pertaining to modern. This has gotten ridiculous and pathetic on the mods behalf.
The mods.. Whom Ban people for standing up and retaliate versus harsh flaming. after Thier reports of flaming are never met by the bias mods who favor those who agree with them. Like seriously this is the rudest most arrogant and pretentious forum I have ever been on.
And while there are great ppl on here. there are some I wonder how they function in society with such ignorant and rude behavior(either that or they are just keyboard warriors)
Later fellas it's been good at times and bad at times.
Oh look, another "I'm leaving and never coming back" post from hellfire....
You're right, though. It was extreme to ban twin talk, but it was an extreme REaction to essentially 4 posters.
The reason splinter twin talk was banned was because of the very scenario you mentioned: people re-routing every post, whether it was warranted or not, to splinter twin. No new ideas could be discussed in this thread for more than a page before someone shoehorned twin talk into the fray. Modern magic history was entirely re-written by certain posters to fit narratives while facts were ignored entirely.
Also, posters are regularly warned/infracted for being baited into these arguments, much like this one most likely will be.
As of today, the Splinter Twin moratorium is over. We will try to get a new thread rolled out today, and we will also be keeping an eye on the the topic. If we fall back into the same issues, we will take more action.
not allowing the conversation to involve that topic was extreme.
Sure if someone on a daily basis argues its return and never ceases. Then they can be asked to not dilute everything to that.
But if noone can even speak the word splinter twin in this forum just because people don't want to hear the word is nonsensical. And is a very fascist way of running a thread that should allow civil conversation about everything pertaining to modern. This has gotten ridiculous and pathetic on the mods behalf.
The mods.. Whom Ban people for standing up and retaliate versus harsh flaming. after Thier reports of flaming are never met by the bias mods who favor those who agree with them. Like seriously this is the rudest most arrogant and pretentious forum I have ever been on.
And while there are great ppl on here. there are some I wonder how they function in society with such ignorant and rude behavior(either that or they are just keyboard warriors)
Later fellas it's been good at times and bad at times.
Except you are completely misrepresenting why the moratorium was in place. Not surprising, considering you were 1/3 of the reason for it.
A moratorium was placed because no matter the topic, no matter the card discussed, no matter the archetype being debated, you, Cfusion, and others would turn the conversation back to Splinter Twin. It was impossible to talk about anything else because the topic would always get derailed back to Twin.
It had nothing to do with people being offended by Twin, and more people actually wanting a thread to talk about ALL of Modern's banlist issues, not just the one you and Cfusion wanted to talk about.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
'basically kind of the same thing' but its not the same thing.
Nothing is, or will be. The sooner one comes to grips with that (as I have) and/or moves on as you have, the better, but Queller is not the same thing, because again, nothing is. The closest, is my deck.
I mean Top got banned in legacy and all it took was what, five years, a few pizzas ordered and a custom road hazard sign appearing at WOTC's parking lot? So the bar is set.
Amusing post holydiva, and a good kick off for an actual topic of substance.
"What format do people want? What* would your Tier 1 and Tier 2 look like?"
Pick your decks, past or present, what makes a 'good' format? People clearly are on other sides here if some say the format is 7-8/10 great, and others that its terrible.
I think Modern is in an extremely boring state at the moment. I'm barely playing. The top decks are:
- GDS: a ridiculous hodgepodge of the best removal, best disruption, best counterspell, best cantrips and best creatures, all of them costing 1 mana
- Eldrazi Tron: a completely braindead deck full of stupid cards
- Titanshift: the most braindead deck I've seen in my 20 years playing magic
- Affinity: an aggro-combo deck. Pretty cool, somewhat interesting, but ultimately just that
- Storm: a spell-based combo deck that aims to play solitaire
It's not only that the top-tier decks are all of them either completely dumb or completely uninteresting, it's that most of the matchups between them are utterly uninteresting and come down to whether or not they find and resolve the very few specific cards that do something, and whether or not they found it fast enough.
Did E Tron resolve a Chalice vs GDS? Did it have a busted opener?
Did Titanshift have Anger main vs Affinity? Did it find it in 2 games?
Did E Tron find Relics or an early Chalice vs Storm?
Did Storm find an early Empty vs GDS?
Etc, etc, etc...
And then we have 15 tier 2 decks that are much worse than these 5, and several garbage tier 3 decks that have been promoted to tier 2 because they randomly have good matchups vs some of those 5. We also have some control decks that are actually quite bad, have completely crashed and burned in GPs, but 20 dudes play them in every SCG open and 3 or 4 of them hit the matchup lottery so people can claim online that they are not bad.
Format is not interesting. Most of the tier2 decks people claim make this format super fun and healthy actually get murdered by some or several of the tier 1 decks and they are frankly just bad. The tier 1 is as boring as I've ever seen and the intra-tier 1 matchups they provide are just AWFUL Magic.
And this is Modern for you. And before someone says that I'm describing Modern like all this is intrinsic to it, no, it's not. Past formats where much more interesting.
Also, I remind everyone spouting nonsense, that at the time they banned Gitaxian Probe and Troll, #1 deck in the format was Jund, #2 was Junk, Death's Shadow Zoo wasn't in the top10 decks by shares and Dredge had a 7%.
This is the reality of those times, 9 months ago. I don't like this format. This format is only being enjoyed by people riding GDS (to a lesser degree recently), people playing braindead decks, or people that hit the fringe lottery and play decks that became playable such as UW or Hatebears.
EDIT: I have to clarify though, that Gitaxian Probe was an extremely good card and I'm not in the camp that the ban was wrong now
EDIT2: Further clarification, what do I think are interesting decks? Well, not only the type of deck I play, though I find that one interesting. I found Infect and DSZ very interesting too, I think playing them and against them demanded a good amount of skill. But there are more. I think those Jeskai Queller decks are pretty fun and interesting, I think the UR Breach deck is very interesting, but it would stop being interesting if it was too good instead of somewhat good. I think decks like those Kiki-Evo-Moon decks are pretty interesting. I think traditional midrange decks are interesting, or decks like BW Pox or Esper Goryo's gifts, those are interesting.
There's more, it's not like I need a deck to play Temur Battle Rage to be fun and interesting.
A lot of that I agree with, but I play esper draw go and hope opt will at least make it more fun. I still get destroyed by eldrazi/tron strategies most of the time. That feels like modern and one day the one deck to rule them all will come to fruition again because eventually something will be printed to create this scenario.
I guess I'm curious about what a good format is supposed to look like. I'd hate for a lock-down control or prison deck to dominate like miracles did in Legacy forever or hell workshop prison decks in Vintage. For a while Standard was a midrange grindfest, and I find battleship MtG totally boring. I like where we are at now. I know its subjective, but I'm curious as to what is missing?
And here's another thing: we either get a format with a lot of viable decks or top tier control. Control decks are good when they can properly attack a meta, so you won't have good blue based control unless we get banned down to like six playable decks. That's just the reality.
Now, I'm going to go a bit crazy here. I'm known for saying a lot of nonsense but my nonsense has never been of the kind of "ban a lot of stuff" nonsense. Well, I find myself now in a situation in which I think the format is getting so stale, and the chances of any of those boring top decks are going anywhere so low, that for the first time I actually think some heavy bannings would improve the format.
I would basically hit all or most of the top5 decks. Many people are comfortable with those 15 tier2 decks, some of which I have mentioned. But they are straight worse than the top5. You are handicapping yourself by not playing one of the top5decks.
So I would hit the top5 decks in hopes of moving that tier2 up. Like, ban Death's Shadow. Then we have to hit some of those other decks since GDS is the Great Interactive Hope. Well, hit either Tron lands, or Temple, or Valakut, or 2 of the 3. Do we think Storm would be too good? Ok we hit Storm too.
This doesn't have anything to do with my own deck here, my deck has good or very good matchups vs all those except GDS and that one is not too bad. It's about the hated "shake-up" of the format. Don't take me very seriously but I think those 5 decks at the top are very toxic and if we really want that "wide open format" people falsely claim we have, we would have to hit the toxic top 5.
EDIT: I'm not opposed to unbans either, for sure. But I don't know exactly what unbans would have a positive effect. I imagine SFM would maybe?
I think you are right, and those are the decks that are hitting on an axis that cannot be simply shut down, well other than Affinity, but Affinity can be so fast, that even if you load up hate, unless your main deck is already game against them, you could just die.
Goes back to what I was saying weeks ago, we need a better answer for Land's, because right now there is no punishment if you are Eldrazi or Titan, no deck comes out and smashes them it seems.
I think it is a question of 'if 1 million dollars was on the line, what would you play' and the majority by far would be on GDS, and Eldrazi or Affinity.
I guess I'm curious about what a good format is supposed to look like. I'd hate for a lock-down control or prison deck to dominate like miracles did in Legacy forever or hell workshop prison decks in Vintage. For a while Standard was a midrange grindfest, and I find battleship MtG totally boring. I like where we are at now. I know its subjective, but I'm curious as to what is missing?
And here's another thing: we either get a format with a lot of viable decks or top tier control. Control decks are good when they can properly attack a meta, so you won't have good blue based control unless we get banned down to like six playable decks. That's just the reality.
I think this really depends on just what you call (or refuse to call) Control. HolyDiva hits on an important thing here that I've not seen articulated well previously.
Its one thing to have variety, its another to have the games between all this variety be interesting. Put another way, many decks can be interesting, but what if the games between these various decks are not?
Is that a good format?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UW Spirits
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Gitaxian Probe has never actually been a problem ever in Modern. If Probe were such a broken, busted, crazy card, it would have done something broken, busted, or crazy in its time legal throughout the entirety of the Modern format. Probe didn't even see much play in anything other than Infect and Grixis Delver/Control builds. It wasn't until *redacted* was banned and control ceased to exist that small creature pump aggro decks were taking over the format. The ban was specifically to hit those pump aggro decks, regardless of whatever card they chose. They just chose a card they hated, because they hate cheap efficient blue cards. And rather than see the effect Fatal Push would have on cards like Blighted Agent, Death's Shadow, and Kiln Fiend, they just ban probe and kill off the archetypes all together (while killing Delver too, just for good measure). One of several cards on the banned list that has no business being there.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Please. We all know the reason you're not posting. Why you went from 100 posts a week to around 5. I doubt it has anything to do with "format health".
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I believe the second announcement back did reference modern, but only to say "Grixis Shadow is getting popular, the format is different, but it looks like there aren't any big problems." Modern is also returning to the Pro Tour, so to say WOTC pays it no attention is incorrect.
Nope, that was 3 announcements ago on April 24th.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/april-24-2017-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2017-04-24
Here is June's
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/june-13-2017-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2017-06-13
and here is August's
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/august-28-2017-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2017-08-28
Wizards is either extremely tight lipped about their vision and plans for modern, or they just don't care.
By the way, jeskai is a tempo beats deck that plays bolt snap bolt and cryptic commands, the complaints need to stop from you now, you have a tier 1 deck that does everything but play remand
Unless you're ready to admit you want a deck that has an oops, I win button that suppressed the format
Cfusion is right that Probe wasn't particularly problematic before Become Immense, but after KTK, it clearly reached its full potential and became problematic in 2016, when 3 Top Tier decks where using it to kill on T3 consistently through disruption, and all 3 where basically a different flavor of the same deck.
Control is certainly in a good spot right now(because of Death's Shadow). The metagame is being kind to it and its taking advantage. I still believe a pure reactive deck like the UW that took the Classic yesterday can't really Top 8 the GP without major help from the matchup roulette.
It will be really interesting to see how WOTC handles the format come Pro Tour Rivals of Ixalan. I still believe they can ban Shadow/Wraith and no one will be surprised. Against a format completely adapted to it, it still puts several copies in the Top 8. I guess it doesn't do it by comboing so that's good.
EDIT:Correcting spelling mistakes.
Gitaxian Probe was not a good ban. The goal (killing/nerfing pump aggro decks) could have just as easily been accomplished with banning Become Immense instead. Especially when combined with the printing of Fatal Push.
Let me be explicitly clear: I agree that something should have been banned out of pump aggro decks. I DO NOT agree it should have been Probe, a card that has been "powerful but fair" for the entirety of its life in Modern.
Could be that I'm back in school, teaching math to about 200 kids every day and don't have as much time for internet squabbles anymore. Could also be that I'm spending most of my limited free time enjoying Commander instead. I guess the world will never know.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
No such deck existed. :]
Spirits
A temple Ban alongside an SFM unban would do wonders for this format Imo.
decks playing:
none
I want to assume sarcasm.
Sure if someone on a daily basis argues its return and never ceases. Then they can be asked to not dilute everything to that.
But if noone can even speak the word splinter twin in this forum just because people don't want to hear the word is nonsensical. And is a very fascist way of running a thread that should allow civil conversation about everything pertaining to modern. This has gotten ridiculous and pathetic on the mods behalf.
The mods.. Whom Ban people for standing up and retaliate versus harsh flaming. after Thier reports of flaming are never met by the bias mods who favor those who agree with them. Like seriously this is the rudest most arrogant and pretentious forum I have ever been on.
And while there are great ppl on here. there are some I wonder how they function in society with such ignorant and rude behavior(either that or they are just keyboard warriors)
Later fellas it's been good at times and bad at times.
decks playing:
none
Just walk away if the thread doesn't provide what you want.
Fact is, this thread is an outlet for venting steam. That's it. We do not shape policy. We do not present arguments based on fact (with 2 or 3 exceptions) and even people who are reasonable 99% of the time knee-jerk right off the deep end of someone dares to imply their pet deck is borderline too good.
TLDR: why so serious, the thread isn't.
Spirits
Oh look, another "I'm leaving and never coming back" post from hellfire....
You're right, though. It was extreme to ban twin talk, but it was an extreme REaction to essentially 4 posters.
The reason splinter twin talk was banned was because of the very scenario you mentioned: people re-routing every post, whether it was warranted or not, to splinter twin. No new ideas could be discussed in this thread for more than a page before someone shoehorned twin talk into the fray. Modern magic history was entirely re-written by certain posters to fit narratives while facts were ignored entirely.
Also, posters are regularly warned/infracted for being baited into these arguments, much like this one most likely will be.
Affinity
Death & Taxes
Mardu Nahiri
Forcing people to merge with twitch is stupid
Except you are completely misrepresenting why the moratorium was in place. Not surprising, considering you were 1/3 of the reason for it.
A moratorium was placed because no matter the topic, no matter the card discussed, no matter the archetype being debated, you, Cfusion, and others would turn the conversation back to Splinter Twin. It was impossible to talk about anything else because the topic would always get derailed back to Twin.
It had nothing to do with people being offended by Twin, and more people actually wanting a thread to talk about ALL of Modern's banlist issues, not just the one you and Cfusion wanted to talk about.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Nothing is, or will be. The sooner one comes to grips with that (as I have) and/or moves on as you have, the better, but Queller is not the same thing, because again, nothing is. The closest, is my deck.
Spirits
"What format do people want? What* would your Tier 1 and Tier 2 look like?"
Pick your decks, past or present, what makes a 'good' format? People clearly are on other sides here if some say the format is 7-8/10 great, and others that its terrible.
Spirits
A lot of that I agree with, but I play esper draw go and hope opt will at least make it more fun. I still get destroyed by eldrazi/tron strategies most of the time. That feels like modern and one day the one deck to rule them all will come to fruition again because eventually something will be printed to create this scenario.
And here's another thing: we either get a format with a lot of viable decks or top tier control. Control decks are good when they can properly attack a meta, so you won't have good blue based control unless we get banned down to like six playable decks. That's just the reality.
I think you are right, and those are the decks that are hitting on an axis that cannot be simply shut down, well other than Affinity, but Affinity can be so fast, that even if you load up hate, unless your main deck is already game against them, you could just die.
Goes back to what I was saying weeks ago, we need a better answer for Land's, because right now there is no punishment if you are Eldrazi or Titan, no deck comes out and smashes them it seems.
I think it is a question of 'if 1 million dollars was on the line, what would you play' and the majority by far would be on GDS, and Eldrazi or Affinity.
Spirits
I think this really depends on just what you call (or refuse to call) Control. HolyDiva hits on an important thing here that I've not seen articulated well previously.
Its one thing to have variety, its another to have the games between all this variety be interesting. Put another way, many decks can be interesting, but what if the games between these various decks are not?
Is that a good format?
Spirits