On the flip side, this what the thread devolves to if there are no fundamentally broken decks.
At this point, everything in Modern at the top outside of UW and UWR, are cheating resources.
That, is Modern.
(I'm just playing Doomfist and punching people right now.)
maybe that Is the problem with modern. And it's balance between fair and unfair?
Well I dont think its a problem, I think its just a fact of the format. If you are not doing unfair things and cheating on some resource, you are not top level competitive in most cases.
Eldrazi Temple is yet another land that should have been legendary. Others include Valakut and the Tron lands
But even so, I think we will just have to live with it.
As long as we get a new strong nonbasic land hate card, Eldrazi Tron will be kept in check
Sigh, I've never read anything from you that makes me feel like you understand the game, I don't mean that as an attack on you
If you made Urza lands legendary the deck would be unplayable
If you made Eldrazi Temple legendary, the deck would be unplayable
Valakut could get away with it, but that's a win-con, not a land (kinda)
If Urza's Tower, Urza's Mine, and Urza's Power Plant were all Legendary, it would make the deck worse, yes, but it would make it focus more on getting at least 1 of each of those lands in play as opposed to just jamming 4 of each of them and 4 Expedition Map and calling it a day. You'd need to run more Ancient Stirrings and Sylvan Scrying to get your Tron setup, but it would still be playable. Though to be far I feel that if they were made Legendary you maybe could have all 3 of the lands generate 3 mana each when you have them all in play, but that's a very thin maybe.
As for Eldrazi Temple Eldrazi Tron would still be a perfectly good deck if Temple was Legendary. As I said in my previous post you could still have turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer plays, it would just cost you a lot more in resources to do it. I think that if Temple was Legendary then turn 3 would be the earliest we'd be seeing TKS, and I think as a Turn 3 play, that is still powerful, but definitely a lot more fair.
And Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle would be hampered at least a little bit by being made Legendary. It would make it so they can't pull off the 2 Valakut 36 damage combos anymore (unless I am mistaken, in which case making them Legendary doesn't do anything to hamper Valakut)
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On the flip side, this what the thread devolves to if there are no fundamentally broken decks.
At this point, everything in Modern at the top outside of UW and UWR, are cheating resources.
That, is Modern.
(I'm just playing Doomfist and punching people right now.)
maybe that Is the problem with modern. And it's balance between fair and unfair?
Well I dont think its a problem, I think its just a fact of the format. If you are not doing unfair things and cheating on some resource, you are not top level competitive in most cases.
I've been saying this for years. Modern is the format where you must be doing something that cheats a resource or is in some way broken 90% of the time. That 10% is decks like Burn, Jund/k, Merfolk, UW/R Control, and the like that are stopping said cheats by one of two ways. (I may be completely off base here, but I would rather know I'm wrong and change that then keep bumbling around in the dark)
1) Being faster than everything else
2) Shutting it down/grinding out
Even if you are doing one of these two things, you won't always win against something unfair -- it's why it's called "unfair" in the first place. It's ground rule of the format at this point: there is nothing that could happen outside of mass-bannings that could change this.
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Not sure what the unban euphoria is about; even if they unbanned both Stoneforge and BBE right now those decks would still fold to the ET deck big time. If you think that's not warping enough of an effect on ETs part then more power to you I guess.
The white decks like Death and Taxes that would benefit from Stoneforge Mystic are already favored vs Eldrazi Tron.
Not all the decks that might play Bloodbraid Elf "fold big time" to ET now, especially GBx Shadow, which is about 50/50. It's true that ET is an unfavorable matchup for non-Shadow Jund, and BBE would help there. Would it be enough to even the odds? Hard to say, but it wouldn't hurt, and you certainly don't know the answer.
Honestly, you are coming across as a troll at this point. All of your arguments show a lack of understanding of the meta. I'm skeptical that you even play the format competitively. I recommend educating yourself more before posting all these strong opinions.
On the flip side, this what the thread devolves to if there are no fundamentally broken decks.
At this point, everything in Modern at the top outside of UW and UWR, are cheating resources.
That, is Modern.
(I'm just playing Doomfist and punching people right now.)
maybe that Is the problem with modern. And it's balance between fair and unfair?
Well I dont think its a problem, I think its just a fact of the format. If you are not doing unfair things and cheating on some resource, you are not top level competitive in most cases.
this acceptance is my qualms with some of the players of modern. But I guess we are all entitled to an opinion.
On the flip side, this what the thread devolves to if there are no fundamentally broken decks.
At this point, everything in Modern at the top outside of UW and UWR, are cheating resources.
That, is Modern.
(I'm just playing Doomfist and punching people right now.)
maybe that Is the problem with modern. And it's balance between fair and unfair?
Well I dont think its a problem, I think its just a fact of the format. If you are not doing unfair things and cheating on some resource, you are not top level competitive in most cases.
I've been saying this for years. Modern is the format where you must be doing something that cheats a resource or is in some way broken 90% of the time. That 10% is decks like Burn, Jund/k, Merfolk, UW/R Control, and the like that are stopping said cheats by one of two ways. (I may be completely off base here, but I would rather know I'm wrong and change that then keep bumbling around in the dark)
1) Being faster than everything else
2) Shutting it down/grinding out
Even if you are doing one of these two things, you won't always win against something unfair -- it's why it's called "unfair" in the first place. It's ground rule of the format at this point: there is nothing that could happen outside of mass-bannings that could change this.
I dont think it would take mass bannings to balance things. That combined with unbans I feel would suffice.
Not sure what the unban euphoria is about; even if they unbanned both Stoneforge and BBE right now those decks would still fold to the ET deck big time. If you think that's not warping enough of an effect on ETs part then more power to you I guess.
The white decks like Death and Taxes that would benefit from Stoneforge Mystic are already favored vs Eldrazi Tron.
Not all the decks that might play Bloodbraid Elf "fold big time" to ET now, especially GBx Shadow, which is about 50/50. It's true that ET is an unfavorable matchup for non-Shadow Jund, and BBE would help there. Would it be enough to even the odds? Hard to say, but it wouldn't hurt, and you certainly don't know the answer.
Honestly, you are coming across as a troll at this point. All of your arguments show a lack of understanding of the meta. I'm skeptical that you even play the format competitively. I recommend educating yourself more before posting all these strong opinions.
but he has a good point. If we got SFM bbe or Jace and they still didn't do too well in modern. We would than have to ask why this is....
I dont think there are 'fair' cards that are remotely possible at leveling the field between fair and unfair decks. Nothing on the ban list, nothing that could go through standard, and certainly nothing that wouldnt make Uxx oppressive.
Playing Fair in Modern means you are playing with a handicap on your own performance.
This format has too much big mana and linear decks. All some people want is a better archtype balance.
If we list off the top decks of the format right now we have Eldrazi Tron, Grixis Shadow, Affinity, UR Gifts Storm, Titanshift, and maybe Burn.
2 of those decks are big mana (Eldrazi Tron & Titanshift)
2 of them are linear strategies (Burn & Affinity)
1 is a Combo deck (UR Gifts Storm)
1 is a Tempo Control/Midrange deck (Grixis Shadow)
If you go to MTGGoldfish and check those deck's meta share (which is honestly our best metric to track the meta right now unless you have a better one) those 6 decks together total 35.85% of the metagame.
The problem decks you mention (big mana and linear strategies) 24.34%. So less than a quarter of the meta is decks you are saying are a problem. Meaning a little more than 75% of the meta isn't these problem decks. So please explain to me know we need better archetype balance in Modern at this moment.
an entire quarter of the meta is big mana...
What are the other archtypes representing?
Suspension issued for spamming the forum. -- CavalryWolfPack
If you actually read my post a Quarter of the Meta is Big Mana AND Linear Strategies.
If you want to numbers for just big mana, then Titanshift and Eldrazi Tron (again going off of the MTGGoldfish numbers) is around 12%. That is just over one TENTH of the meta. Meaning for every 10 decks you play against, only slightly more than 1 of them is likely to be big mana.
I'm sorry but if you have an issue with that the problem isn't Modern. The problem is you.
Also again I am going to point out how you should multi quote instead of spamming responses in the thread.
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Isnt E-tron a midrange deck? Putting it in the same column with traditional tron decks seems highly disingenuous. For one thing the decks pan out way differently and their game plans are as different as night is from day.
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Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
Eldrazi Temple is yet another land that should have been legendary. Others include Valakut and the Tron lands
But even so, I think we will just have to live with it.
As long as we get a new strong nonbasic land hate card, Eldrazi Tron will be kept in check
Sigh, I've never read anything from you that makes me feel like you understand the game, I don't mean that as an attack on you
If you made Urza lands legendary the deck would be unplayable
If you made Eldrazi Temple legendary, the deck would be unplayable
Valakut could get away with it, but that's a win-con, not a land (kinda)
If Urza's Tower, Urza's Mine, and Urza's Power Plant were all Legendary, it would make the deck worse, yes, but it would make it focus more on getting at least 1 of each of those lands in play as opposed to just jamming 4 of each of them and 4 Expedition Map and calling it a day. You'd need to run more Ancient Stirrings and Sylvan Scrying to get your Tron setup, but it would still be playable. Though to be far I feel that if they were made Legendary you maybe could have all 3 of the lands generate 3 mana each when you have them all in play, but that's a very thin maybe.
As for Eldrazi Temple Eldrazi Tron would still be a perfectly good deck if Temple was Legendary. As I said in my previous post you could still have turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer plays, it would just cost you a lot more in resources to do it. I think that if Temple was Legendary then turn 3 would be the earliest we'd be seeing TKS, and I think as a Turn 3 play, that is still powerful, but definitely a lot more fair.
And Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle would be hampered at least a little bit by being made Legendary. It would make it so they can't pull off the 2 Valakut 36 damage combos anymore (unless I am mistaken, in which case making them Legendary doesn't do anything to hamper Valakut)
Regardless of scapeshifting with valakut, Legendary would stop the Titan plan and stop the late game plan of the titanshift deck of just playing lands to win.
And making the tron lands legendary does make the decks unplayable as it turns excess copies of those lands into completely dead draws instead of just giving you more mana. I don't know how many games I've played against tron where they had two mines in a row while cracking stars and maps to find the power plant and tower. Those games would have been auto-loses for the deck if the lands were legendary.
Bant-Eldrazi would be the only deck capable of considering playing Temple if it was legendary. And ETron would not still be a good deck as 16 of it's lands now blow eachother up. It really sounds like you have never played any of these decks or against them.
Isnt E-tron a midrange deck? Putting it in the same column with traditional tron decks seems highly disingenuous. For one thing the decks pan out way differently and their game plans are as different as night is from day.
j7
Eh, calling it a midrange deck is a stretch. It has midrange elements for sure. Like most decks in modern, It doesn't fit neatly into a archetype. I consider it a midrange big mana deck.
Bant-Eldrazi would be the only deck capable of considering playing Temple if it was legendary. And ETron would not still be a good deck as 16 of it's lands now blow eachother up. It really sounds like you have never played any of these decks or against them.
I was speaking Hypothetically here. I have played both with and against Tron decks extensively, but I like to not be pessimistic about these types of things. Though you are right in that for the most part the decks would be shells of their former selves.
What I was alluding to in my post however, was that if they were all Legendary, instead of decks running 4 copies of each of the Tron Lands, they instead run maybe 3 or 2 of each of them and pile on high with the land tutoring cards like Ancient Stirrings and Sylvan Scrying. Would it be a hell of a lot worse of a deck? For sure. But just like what happened to the Amulet deck when Summer Bloom was banned, it adapted and survived. Sure it is nowhere near as popular or as powerful as it once was, but it is still a deck that can wins tournaments every now and again.
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If Urza lands were legendary, all forms of Tron would die on the spot, you're literally saying it's ok for a deck to have 9 dead cards after they draw the initial one.
That's not counting the times when relics/chalice is bad, or watching as a endbringer, Karn or All is dust stranded in hand
You guys absolutely no not understand the decks on a fundamental, and they are by no means complicated nuances to understand, it's coming off as ignorant or dishonest.
E-Tron would not be played if it were a legendary land. Period.
Bant-Eldrazi would be the only deck capable of considering playing Temple if it was legendary. And ETron would not still be a good deck as 16 of it's lands now blow eachother up. It really sounds like you have never played any of these decks or against them.
I was speaking Hypothetically here. I have played both with and against Tron decks extensively, but I like to not be pessimistic about these types of things. Though you are right in that for the most part the decks would be shells of their former selves.
What I was alluding to in my post however, was that if they were all Legendary, instead of decks running 4 copies of each of the Tron Lands, they instead run maybe 3 or 2 of each of them and pile on high with the land tutoring cards like Ancient Stirrings and Sylvan Scrying. Would it be a hell of a lot worse of a deck? For sure. But just like what happened to the Amulet deck when Summer Bloom was banned, it adapted and survived. Sure it is nowhere near as popular or as powerful as it once was, but it is still a deck that can wins tournaments every now and again.
Sure, it would work, as a deck tier 3.5 deck that see's no results outside of an occasional MTGO result. Amulet is a seriously dead deck outside of MTGO.
Affinity could also be a deck without Mox Opal, it would just be in the developing competitive forums for the rest of it's existence.
Eldrazi Temple would most certainly still be played if it were legendary, although it may not be a 4-of anymore.
Eye of Ugin was legendary and that didn't stop anyone from jamming 4 into their deck, even though multiple copies of Eye are even worse than multiple copies of a legendary temple would be (at least you can float 2 mana from the first temple, and then play the second)
I agree Tron decks may not exist if each piece was legendary, but I still find it weird when lands with a proper name in their title are not made legendary. Did Urza's built more than one tower? Is there more than one Valakut on Zendikar? If not they should both be legendary - otherwise it is a flavor fail
Sure, it would work, as a deck tier 3.5 deck that see's no results outside of an occasional MTGO result. Amulet is a seriously dead deck outside of MTGO.
Affinity could also be a deck without Mox Opal, it would just be in the developing competitive forums for the rest of it's existence.
Point #1: Amulet was in the Top 32 of the SCG Syracuse Open literally this past weekend.
Point #2: Funny how you make the argument about how making a card Legendary would kill a deck, while referencing how a specific deck would die without a specific Legendary card it runs 4 of. I know there is a difference because Opal is an Artifact, but still, I find it amusing.
If Urza lands were legendary, all forms of Tron would die on the spot, you're literally saying it's ok for a deck to have 9 dead cards after they draw the initial one.
That's not counting the times when relics/chalice is bad, or watching as a endbringer, Karn or All is dust stranded in hand
You guys absolutely no not understand the decks on a fundamental, and they are by no means complicated nuances to understand, it's coming off as ignorant or dishonest.
E-Tron would not be played if it were a legendary land. Period.
Are you capable of attaining a state of calm? The entire reason I stated the whole, "What if Eldrazi Temple was Legendary" discussion was to try to play Devil's Advocate for the people who are saying Temple should be banned.
Do I personally think Temple needs banned? Not at all. Do I think it not being Legendary is a design flaw that makes it way too damn powerful? You bet your ass I believe that too.
The reason I am structuring my arguments as, "This could be possible." or, "if this was the case, this would happen." is because I don't know with 100% certainty what Modern would look like if my hypotheticals happened. And neither can you. Sure you can make reasonable conclusions, but you can't say with absoluate certainity and "E-Tron would not be played if Eldrazi Temple were a Legendary land. Period." As if you have been to that alternate universe was that was reality. Seriously.
Eldrazi Temple would most certainly still be played if it were legendary, although it may not be a 4-of anymore.
Eye of Ugin was legendary and that didn't stop anyone from jamming 4 into their deck, even though multiple copies of Eye are even worse than multiple copies of a legendary temple would be (at least you can float 2 mana from the first temple, and then play the second)
I agree Tron decks may not exist if each piece was legendary, but I still find it weird when lands with a proper name in their title are not made legendary. Did Urza's built more than one tower? Is there more than one Valakut on Zendikar? If not they should both be legendary - otherwise it is a flavor fail
IIRC the reason Valakut isn't Legendary was because Zendikar was around the time Wizards was really starting there "Let's get new people into this game!" kick and they figured it would make new players feel horrible if they had to sacrifice their cool awesome Volcano land if they wanted to play a second one. Obviously not an exact quote, but you get the idea
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Eye of Ugin is so incredibly busted though that it is well worth the risk to run 3-4 of them. It made 8 mana in a turn sometimes. Sometimes more. The card was broken.
And sure, Valakut is a flavor fail. But flavor shouldn't affect gameplay. As for tron lands, I haven't read those old novels but the multiple different arts and them being commons suggest there may be multiples.
There is no dominant deck in Modern right now. None! The meta is perfectly balanced with a half dozen decks being somewhere between 5-7% of the meta and another 12 decks being between 2-4% of the meta. That leaves something like 25% of the meta for rogue decks. You could not get a better meta for a format if you intentionally designed it that way. We should all remember this moment for all history. I don't think any format has ever had so many viable decks all at once. Ever!
the meta is perfectly balanced? Give me numbers on archtype and colour prevalence to prove this.
There's plenty of threads in this forum for that. Go look yourself.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
Isnt E-tron a midrange deck? Putting it in the same column with traditional tron decks seems highly disingenuous. For one thing the decks pan out way differently and their game plans are as different as night is from day.
j7
Eh, calling it a midrange deck is a stretch. It has midrange elements for sure. Like most decks in modern, It doesn't fit neatly into a archetype. I consider it a midrange big mana deck.
Archetypes in Modern are very hard to nail down. In fact, I wonder if Modern isn't in a post-archetype world right now. GDS and E-Tron don't fit neatly into anything. The best aggro decks are burn (with very few creatures) and affinity (which has quazi-combo elements to it). Lantern Control, Jeskai Control, and UW control are all really different and not the classic control decks people think they remember from the "olden days." UR Storm has a go-wide agro plan. It's just all jumbled in a beautiful way now.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
If Urza lands were legendary, all forms of Tron would die on the spot, you're literally saying it's ok for a deck to have 9 dead cards after they draw the initial one.
That's not counting the times when relics/chalice is bad, or watching as a endbringer, Karn or All is dust stranded in hand
You guys absolutely no not understand the decks on a fundamental, and they are by no means complicated nuances to understand, it's coming off as ignorant or dishonest.
E-Tron would not be played if it were a legendary land. Period.
You sure do like to say that people just don't understand decks when they disagree with you. Lots of decks can have dead cards after certain in game criteria has been met
If Urza lands were legendary, all forms of Tron would die on the spot, you're literally saying it's ok for a deck to have 9 dead cards after they draw the initial one.
That's not counting the times when relics/chalice is bad, or watching as a endbringer, Karn or All is dust stranded in hand
You guys absolutely no not understand the decks on a fundamental, and they are by no means complicated nuances to understand, it's coming off as ignorant or dishonest.
E-Tron would not be played if it were a legendary land. Period.
You sure do like to say that people just don't understand decks when they disagree with you. Lots of decks can have dead cards after certain in game criteria has been met
He's right. There are a few people who post of a lot of strong opinions in the thread who clearly don't really understand what's going on with Modern decks or the Modern meta. Disagreeing with these people isn't the same as disagreeing with someone who knows what they are talking about but has a difference of opinion. There are a few people who really should just step back and think a bit more deeply before posting a lot of nonsense, cluttering up the thread, and starting useless arguments... in other words, trolling.
Not trying to stifle discussion, but rather increase the quality of discussion.
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Well I dont think its a problem, I think its just a fact of the format. If you are not doing unfair things and cheating on some resource, you are not top level competitive in most cases.
Spirits
Sigh, I've never read anything from you that makes me feel like you understand the game, I don't mean that as an attack on you
If you made Urza lands legendary the deck would be unplayable
If you made Eldrazi Temple legendary, the deck would be unplayable
Valakut could get away with it, but that's a win-con, not a land (kinda)
If Urza's Tower, Urza's Mine, and Urza's Power Plant were all Legendary, it would make the deck worse, yes, but it would make it focus more on getting at least 1 of each of those lands in play as opposed to just jamming 4 of each of them and 4 Expedition Map and calling it a day. You'd need to run more Ancient Stirrings and Sylvan Scrying to get your Tron setup, but it would still be playable. Though to be far I feel that if they were made Legendary you maybe could have all 3 of the lands generate 3 mana each when you have them all in play, but that's a very thin maybe.
As for Eldrazi Temple Eldrazi Tron would still be a perfectly good deck if Temple was Legendary. As I said in my previous post you could still have turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer plays, it would just cost you a lot more in resources to do it. I think that if Temple was Legendary then turn 3 would be the earliest we'd be seeing TKS, and I think as a Turn 3 play, that is still powerful, but definitely a lot more fair.
And Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle would be hampered at least a little bit by being made Legendary. It would make it so they can't pull off the 2 Valakut 36 damage combos anymore (unless I am mistaken, in which case making them Legendary doesn't do anything to hamper Valakut)
Modern Decks:
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I've been saying this for years. Modern is the format where you must be doing something that cheats a resource or is in some way broken 90% of the time. That 10% is decks like Burn, Jund/k, Merfolk, UW/R Control, and the like that are stopping said cheats by one of two ways. (I may be completely off base here, but I would rather know I'm wrong and change that then keep bumbling around in the dark)
1) Being faster than everything else
2) Shutting it down/grinding out
Even if you are doing one of these two things, you won't always win against something unfair -- it's why it's called "unfair" in the first place. It's ground rule of the format at this point: there is nothing that could happen outside of mass-bannings that could change this.
The white decks like Death and Taxes that would benefit from Stoneforge Mystic are already favored vs Eldrazi Tron.
Not all the decks that might play Bloodbraid Elf "fold big time" to ET now, especially GBx Shadow, which is about 50/50. It's true that ET is an unfavorable matchup for non-Shadow Jund, and BBE would help there. Would it be enough to even the odds? Hard to say, but it wouldn't hurt, and you certainly don't know the answer.
Honestly, you are coming across as a troll at this point. All of your arguments show a lack of understanding of the meta. I'm skeptical that you even play the format competitively. I recommend educating yourself more before posting all these strong opinions.
decks playing:
none
decks playing:
none
decks playing:
none
Playing Fair in Modern means you are playing with a handicap on your own performance.
Spirits
What are the other archtypes representing?
Suspension issued for spamming the forum. -- CavalryWolfPack
decks playing:
none
No...
If you actually read my post a Quarter of the Meta is Big Mana AND Linear Strategies.
If you want to numbers for just big mana, then Titanshift and Eldrazi Tron (again going off of the MTGGoldfish numbers) is around 12%. That is just over one TENTH of the meta. Meaning for every 10 decks you play against, only slightly more than 1 of them is likely to be big mana.
I'm sorry but if you have an issue with that the problem isn't Modern. The problem is you.
Also again I am going to point out how you should multi quote instead of spamming responses in the thread.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
Regardless of scapeshifting with valakut, Legendary would stop the Titan plan and stop the late game plan of the titanshift deck of just playing lands to win.
And making the tron lands legendary does make the decks unplayable as it turns excess copies of those lands into completely dead draws instead of just giving you more mana. I don't know how many games I've played against tron where they had two mines in a row while cracking stars and maps to find the power plant and tower. Those games would have been auto-loses for the deck if the lands were legendary.
Bant-Eldrazi would be the only deck capable of considering playing Temple if it was legendary. And ETron would not still be a good deck as 16 of it's lands now blow eachother up. It really sounds like you have never played any of these decks or against them.
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
Eh, calling it a midrange deck is a stretch. It has midrange elements for sure. Like most decks in modern, It doesn't fit neatly into a archetype. I consider it a midrange big mana deck.
I was speaking Hypothetically here. I have played both with and against Tron decks extensively, but I like to not be pessimistic about these types of things. Though you are right in that for the most part the decks would be shells of their former selves.
What I was alluding to in my post however, was that if they were all Legendary, instead of decks running 4 copies of each of the Tron Lands, they instead run maybe 3 or 2 of each of them and pile on high with the land tutoring cards like Ancient Stirrings and Sylvan Scrying. Would it be a hell of a lot worse of a deck? For sure. But just like what happened to the Amulet deck when Summer Bloom was banned, it adapted and survived. Sure it is nowhere near as popular or as powerful as it once was, but it is still a deck that can wins tournaments every now and again.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
That's not counting the times when relics/chalice is bad, or watching as a endbringer, Karn or All is dust stranded in hand
You guys absolutely no not understand the decks on a fundamental, and they are by no means complicated nuances to understand, it's coming off as ignorant or dishonest.
E-Tron would not be played if it were a legendary land. Period.
Sure, it would work, as a deck tier 3.5 deck that see's no results outside of an occasional MTGO result. Amulet is a seriously dead deck outside of MTGO.
Affinity could also be a deck without Mox Opal, it would just be in the developing competitive forums for the rest of it's existence.
Eye of Ugin was legendary and that didn't stop anyone from jamming 4 into their deck, even though multiple copies of Eye are even worse than multiple copies of a legendary temple would be (at least you can float 2 mana from the first temple, and then play the second)
I agree Tron decks may not exist if each piece was legendary, but I still find it weird when lands with a proper name in their title are not made legendary. Did Urza's built more than one tower? Is there more than one Valakut on Zendikar? If not they should both be legendary - otherwise it is a flavor fail
Point #1: Amulet was in the Top 32 of the SCG Syracuse Open literally this past weekend.
Point #2: Funny how you make the argument about how making a card Legendary would kill a deck, while referencing how a specific deck would die without a specific Legendary card it runs 4 of. I know there is a difference because Opal is an Artifact, but still, I find it amusing.
Are you capable of attaining a state of calm? The entire reason I stated the whole, "What if Eldrazi Temple was Legendary" discussion was to try to play Devil's Advocate for the people who are saying Temple should be banned.
Do I personally think Temple needs banned? Not at all. Do I think it not being Legendary is a design flaw that makes it way too damn powerful? You bet your ass I believe that too.
The reason I am structuring my arguments as, "This could be possible." or, "if this was the case, this would happen." is because I don't know with 100% certainty what Modern would look like if my hypotheticals happened. And neither can you. Sure you can make reasonable conclusions, but you can't say with absoluate certainity and "E-Tron would not be played if Eldrazi Temple were a Legendary land. Period." As if you have been to that alternate universe was that was reality. Seriously.
IIRC the reason Valakut isn't Legendary was because Zendikar was around the time Wizards was really starting there "Let's get new people into this game!" kick and they figured it would make new players feel horrible if they had to sacrifice their cool awesome Volcano land if they wanted to play a second one. Obviously not an exact quote, but you get the idea
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
And sure, Valakut is a flavor fail. But flavor shouldn't affect gameplay. As for tron lands, I haven't read those old novels but the multiple different arts and them being commons suggest there may be multiples.
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
There's plenty of threads in this forum for that. Go look yourself.
Archetypes in Modern are very hard to nail down. In fact, I wonder if Modern isn't in a post-archetype world right now. GDS and E-Tron don't fit neatly into anything. The best aggro decks are burn (with very few creatures) and affinity (which has quazi-combo elements to it). Lantern Control, Jeskai Control, and UW control are all really different and not the classic control decks people think they remember from the "olden days." UR Storm has a go-wide agro plan. It's just all jumbled in a beautiful way now.
You sure do like to say that people just don't understand decks when they disagree with you. Lots of decks can have dead cards after certain in game criteria has been met
He's right. There are a few people who post of a lot of strong opinions in the thread who clearly don't really understand what's going on with Modern decks or the Modern meta. Disagreeing with these people isn't the same as disagreeing with someone who knows what they are talking about but has a difference of opinion. There are a few people who really should just step back and think a bit more deeply before posting a lot of nonsense, cluttering up the thread, and starting useless arguments... in other words, trolling.
Not trying to stifle discussion, but rather increase the quality of discussion.