Legend said it perfectly about the balance of the urza lands.
Memory lapse made a good point too about what people think when they hear "tron" deck, I agree that I don't think of e.tron or mono U tron either even though they both use the tron lands. I played mono U for a long time and assembling tron isn't top priority,its much slower.
Would tron be so hated if it wasn't for turn 3 karn? For the most part I feel that's what the issue is, not the lands themselves. Ugin, ulamog, emmy, all these huge threats are turn four or more.
Ban Karn and the deck changes from a polarized nightmare to a perfectly fair deck.
End result of this thread = BAN KARN!
I'll do it with a concurrent ban of Liliana of the Veil. Sounds good right? (I already know your answer)
Why bring up Liliana? We aren't even talking about that. Spam.
No need to play coy, you know what I'm asking. Would you agree to ban both Karn and LotV at the same time? If Karn is too oppressive as a possible turn 3 play then why isn't Lily too oppressive at a DEFINITE turn 3 play? Simple question and definitely in the bounds of the thread. I'm genuinely curious. Remember I LIKE 8rack and all its variants and still play my 8Rackdos deck on certain occasions. I hate Affinity but I'm not calling for a ban of anything in it. Heck Black has answers to planes walkers as well as discard. Try finding an answer to planeswalkers in colorless and about the only real answer are 7 cmc cards. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on Karn and move on.
Give us a colorless stripmine
Its called Ghost Quarter. If Strip Mine was in Modern every deck under the Sun would probably run a full playset. I'm going to have to leave it at that, I don't feel like getting worked up about it. See ya' around the boards.
Is it more fun to die to Storm going off T3 or to an Inkmoth T2?
I've never died to T2 Inkmoth. That's a pretty big stretch to compare casting T3 Karn, which happens often to dying to T2 inkmoth which is rarer than me lucky pot o'gold.
If Ghost Quarter were good enough we wouldn't be having this conversation. Ok so if a true colorless strip mine is too strong how about a modified GQ:
Ghost Quarter 2
~exactly the same as GQ1 except it only destroys OPPONENT's lands that produce colorless
If you destroy a land in this way, you may search your library for a basic land card and put it into your hand.
Now at least it replaces itself making it a 1 for 1, unlike GQ which is a 0 for 1. The land goes into your hand so you still suffer a development setback.
Tap Drain the Swamp and sacrifice it to destroy target Land an opponent controls that produces B mana. If you destroy a land in this manner you may search your library for a basic land card and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
I've never died to T2 Inkmoth.
I have on the draw. Sure is fun to have one land on the board and lose. That's some real Magic there.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Tap Drain the Swamp and sacrifice it to destroy target Land an opponent controls that produces B mana. If you destroy a land in this manner you may search your library for a basic land card and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
I've never died to T2 Inkmoth.
I have on the draw. Sure is fun to have one land on the board and lose. That's some real Magic there.
You're just trolling! Lands that produce black mana can't be combined to produce SEVEN black mana! It's not even a fair comparison and you know it. Also to be clear in my above Ghost Quarter 2 card, you BOTH get a basic land, your opponent gets one on the table, you get one in hand.
I have on the draw. Sure is fun to have one land on the board and lose. That's some real Magic there.
You can't lose to turn 2 Inkmoth Nexus without the use of Simian Spirit Guide and Manamorphose. Those would never be played in any Infect deck. Turn 1, Inkmoth Nexus. Turn 2 Forest, activate Inkmoth Nexus, attack and quadruple Mutagenic Growth for 9 poison. Am I missing something? (I don't think so since I've probably lost to Infect on turns 2, 3, and 4 more often than 95% of this board.)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Sorry guys, I think the lily comment was directed at me because of another thread, Im not a fan of lily either even though I play 8rack. Not a big fan of goyf either, have just one more I'm trying to trade off. Conversations for another thread.lol.
I will agree that karn is worse turn 3 than lily.lol
I have an issue/gripe with top cards being out of range of so many players, I feel like new players are getting the short end of the stick because they will never get these power cards and will forever lose to those decks.
One karn, lily or goyf is more than all twelve urza lands.
These cards are big dollars,never see a ban. Probe sees a ban and kills infect, a unique deck at that. I hear all the gripe about how it's never the big dollar cards that get hit. For new players they could afford infect which is probably why so many new people played it, other than the lands it was very affordable and they could compete.
Urza lands I think are good for new players too, they can build a deck that can drop some bombs for cheap like desolation twin or something out of the 25 cent bin.
Banning the urza lands takes away a new players chance of a decent deck at a fairly low price for the power level.
I don't think that's right, as much as we like the game with all our power cards we still need the new blood.
I have on the draw. Sure is fun to have one land on the board and lose. That's some real Magic there.
You can't lose to turn 2 Inkmoth Nexus without the use of Simian Spirit Guide and Manamorphose. Those would never be played in any Infect deck. Turn 1, Inkmoth Nexus. Turn 2 Forest, activate Inkmoth Nexus, attack and quadruple Mutagenic Growth for 9 poison. Am I missing something? (I don't think so since I've probably lost to Infect on turns 2, 3, and 4 more often than 95% of this board.)
It happened to me a ways back, it can happen albeit its magical Christmas land.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Then report me!!! I'm saying the "hate" for Tron and its variants is based on an irrational dislike for a deck that obviously beats the pet decks of those so offended. Shocker, (gasp) someone has a different viewpoint than you, imagine that.
Look I hate the Chicago Cubs. I wish they would lose every game until the end of time. I just do. I get it that it doesn't make any sense, its totally irrational but at least I understand I'm irrational and I'm not going to claim everyone should think the same way based on my biased view of them. The same thing is happening in this thread. Its okay to hate a deck but to claim irrational views about it as absolute truths is delusional. I get it you don't like the deck you have to let it go. I will and don't look for a response, I'm done with the thread.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Then report me!!! I'm saying the "hate" for Tron and its variants is based on an irrational dislike for a deck that obviously beats the pet decks of those so offended. Shocker, (gasp) someone has a different viewpoint than you, imagine that.
Look I hate the Chicago Cubs. I wish they would lose every game until the end of time. I just do. I get it that it doesn't make any sense, its totally irrational but at least I understand I'm irrational and I'm not going to claim everyone should think the same way based on my biased view of them. The same thing is happening in this thread. Its okay to hate a deck but to claim irrational views about it as absolute truths is delusional. I get it you don't like the deck you have to let it go. I will and don't look for a response, I'm done with the thread.
It's called commiseration. It feels good to know that a deck I hate for both rational and irrational reasons is also hated by others for the same and other reasons. Quit being such a turd in the punch bowl.
Public Mod Note
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Infraction issued for trolling
I have on the draw. Sure is fun to have one land on the board and lose. That's some real Magic there.
You can't lose to turn 2 Inkmoth Nexus without the use of Simian Spirit Guide and Manamorphose. Those would never be played in any Infect deck. Turn 1, Inkmoth Nexus. Turn 2 Forest, activate Inkmoth Nexus, attack and quadruple Mutagenic Growth for 9 poison. Am I missing something? (I don't think so since I've probably lost to Infect on turns 2, 3, and 4 more often than 95% of this board.)
It happened to me a ways back, it can happen albeit its magical Christmas land.
Oh, I've lost to that exact hand or close around 50-100 times before, including twice in a match probably around 25 times. I thought he specifically said losing to a turn 2 Inkmoth Nexus which requires non summoning sickness and several other things, which aren't really likely. Glistener Elf is the way to kill on turn 2.
Blighted Agent is the much more scary one. That card literally scares the beejesus out of me. But then, I usually don't have (much if any) creature interaction, but always have creatures around since Modern is very creature based.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
This thread has rolled from talking about why people feel about a certain deck into flaming. As such, we are closing it, and handing out points as needed.
I would hardly call Liliana oppressive.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
I've never died to T2 Inkmoth. That's a pretty big stretch to compare casting T3 Karn, which happens often to dying to T2 inkmoth which is rarer than me lucky pot o'gold.
Ghost Quarter 2
~exactly the same as GQ1 except it only destroys OPPONENT's lands that produce colorless
If you destroy a land in this way, you may search your library for a basic land card and put it into your hand.
Now at least it replaces itself making it a 1 for 1, unlike GQ which is a 0 for 1. The land goes into your hand so you still suffer a development setback.
Land
Tap Drain the Swamp and sacrifice it to destroy target Land an opponent controls that produces B mana. If you destroy a land in this manner you may search your library for a basic land card and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
I have on the draw. Sure is fun to have one land on the board and lose. That's some real Magic there.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
You're just trolling! Lands that produce black mana can't be combined to produce SEVEN black mana! It's not even a fair comparison and you know it. Also to be clear in my above Ghost Quarter 2 card, you BOTH get a basic land, your opponent gets one on the table, you get one in hand.
Seems pretty balanced to me.
You can't lose to turn 2 Inkmoth Nexus without the use of Simian Spirit Guide and Manamorphose. Those would never be played in any Infect deck. Turn 1, Inkmoth Nexus. Turn 2 Forest, activate Inkmoth Nexus, attack and quadruple Mutagenic Growth for 9 poison. Am I missing something? (I don't think so since I've probably lost to Infect on turns 2, 3, and 4 more often than 95% of this board.)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I will agree that karn is worse turn 3 than lily.lol
I have an issue/gripe with top cards being out of range of so many players, I feel like new players are getting the short end of the stick because they will never get these power cards and will forever lose to those decks.
One karn, lily or goyf is more than all twelve urza lands.
These cards are big dollars,never see a ban. Probe sees a ban and kills infect, a unique deck at that. I hear all the gripe about how it's never the big dollar cards that get hit. For new players they could afford infect which is probably why so many new people played it, other than the lands it was very affordable and they could compete.
Urza lands I think are good for new players too, they can build a deck that can drop some bombs for cheap like desolation twin or something out of the 25 cent bin.
Banning the urza lands takes away a new players chance of a decent deck at a fairly low price for the power level.
I don't think that's right, as much as we like the game with all our power cards we still need the new blood.
Turn 1 Land Drop, Glistener Elf
Turn 2 Land Drop, Might of Old Krosa Might of Old Krosa Mutagenic Growth attack for 11 poison, lethal. GG
It happened to me a ways back, it can happen albeit its magical Christmas land.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Exactly. The butthurt in this thread is strong.
Then report me!!! I'm saying the "hate" for Tron and its variants is based on an irrational dislike for a deck that obviously beats the pet decks of those so offended. Shocker, (gasp) someone has a different viewpoint than you, imagine that.
Look I hate the Chicago Cubs. I wish they would lose every game until the end of time. I just do. I get it that it doesn't make any sense, its totally irrational but at least I understand I'm irrational and I'm not going to claim everyone should think the same way based on my biased view of them. The same thing is happening in this thread. Its okay to hate a deck but to claim irrational views about it as absolute truths is delusional. I get it you don't like the deck you have to let it go. I will and don't look for a response, I'm done with the thread.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It's called commiseration. It feels good to know that a deck I hate for both rational and irrational reasons is also hated by others for the same and other reasons. Quit being such a turd in the punch bowl.
Oh, I've lost to that exact hand or close around 50-100 times before, including twice in a match probably around 25 times. I thought he specifically said losing to a turn 2 Inkmoth Nexus which requires non summoning sickness and several other things, which aren't really likely. Glistener Elf is the way to kill on turn 2.
Blighted Agent is the much more scary one. That card literally scares the beejesus out of me. But then, I usually don't have (much if any) creature interaction, but always have creatures around since Modern is very creature based.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)