11 people missed top 8 at 13-2. Huge tourneys are rough.
Even more reason to not only look at the top 8 but better top 16/32 of such a big tournament if you wanna judge format health.
Since nobody posted them yet here you can find the top 8 decklists and here place 9 to 32.
-No Grixis Shadow in the top 8 really surprised me (and probably pretty much everyone)
-6 Grixis Death Shadow and 6 Affinity decks in the top 32. Besides that 18 different archetypes.
-Notably Taking Turns in top 8! BW Smallpox, Jeskai Control, 'Faeries' (playing only BB and SSS main), and the GW Humans deck in top 32. No Storm to be seen.
I think this is really good news for modern overall. The 'best deck' Grixis Shadow is a new force to be prepared for, but you can beat it if you are prepared for it. Affinity seems to profit from the fact that people finally run more gravehate in the SB.
Modern is still the format where you can take some 'bad' Tier 3 deck and Top 8 a huge tournament with it (Taking Turns) and it's still worth it to play the deck you know and love instead of just hopping onto the next 'best' deck (see Wescoe and his Hatebears).
The format seems to be in pretty decent shape right now.
Played against 3 Affinity, 3 Shadow, and 1 UWR Kiki? on Day 1. Day 2 was 6 different decks. Pretty diverse meta and less E Tron than I would have thought. Less Dredge too...
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
11 people missed top 8 at 13-2. Huge tourneys are rough.
Even more reason to not only look at the top 8 but better top 16/32 of such a big tournament if you wanna judge format health.
Since nobody posted them yet here you can find the top 8 decklists and here place 9 to 32.
-No Grixis Shadow in the top 8 really surprised me (and probably pretty much everyone)
-6 Grixis Death Shadow and 6 Affinity decks in the top 32. Besides that 18 different archetypes.
-Notably Taking Turns in top 8! BW Smallpox, Jeskai Control, 'Faeries' (playing only BB and SSS main), and the GW Humans deck in top 32. No Storm to be seen.
I think this is really good news for modern overall. The 'best deck' Grixis Shadow is a new force to be prepared for, but you can beat it if you are prepared for it. Affinity seems to profit from the fact that people finally run more gravehate in the SB.
Modern is still the format where you can take some 'bad' Tier 3 deck and Top 8 a huge tournament with it (Taking Turns) and it's still worth it to play the deck you know and love instead of just hopping onto the next 'best' deck (see Wescoe and his Hatebears).
The format seems to be in pretty decent shape right now.
That Faeries deck looks a lot more like a UB control deck that happens to play Bitterblossom than than a Faeries tribal deck.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
Played against 3 Affinity, 3 Shadow, and 1 UWR Kiki? on Day 1. Day 2 was 6 different decks. Pretty diverse meta and less E Tron than I would have thought. Less Dredge too...
Its becoming more clear to me, the guy who tracks dredge dad for the dredge primer, and even the the dredge posters that modern has two "Boogieman decks of the format" and it's a very Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde relationship. When Affinity does well and people board for it cutting grave hate, Dredge shows the format what a real boggie man looks like. When people board for grave, Affinty position stenghtens again.
Thats a new mini layer of complexity to our format from here on out. And thats honestly a good thing.
Played against 3 Affinity, 3 Shadow, and 1 UWR Kiki? on Day 1. Day 2 was 6 different decks. Pretty diverse meta and less E Tron than I would have thought. Less Dredge too...
Its becoming more clear to me, the guy who tracks dredge dad for the dredge primer, and even the the dredge posters that modern has two "Boogieman decks of the format" and it's a very Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde relationship. When Affinity does well and people board for it cutting grave hate, Dredge shows the format what a real boggie man looks like. When people board for grave, Affinty position stenghtens again.
Thats a new mini layer of complexity to our format from here on out. And thats honestly a good thing.
Dredge is way more toxic to the format than Affinity is. Affinity is a known quantity that folks know and are ok with. It's interactive, it feels fast but fair. Dredge is non interactive and is completely about whether or not hate is on the table. Thus dredge bans. It's an obnoxious toxic archetype that makes for boring one sided matches. There's no wonder why WOTC keeps it in check with bans.
I played dredge at this event and can confirm, LOTS of gy hate floating around to fight shadow decks and dredge got hated on incidentally. Squeeked into day 2 and was even more harsh there, I saw way more rest in peace than goldfish would suggest and lots of decks that ordinarily wouldn't make day 2 based on the archetype/pilot were performing quite well based on an ability to capitalize on it. Lots of bant spirits, gw tron, gw elves, and gw coco decks sporting ~3 rip sb along with scooze/relics. Even faced an eldrazi tron pilot day 2 with 3 md relic, 4th sb along with 3 cages, 2 surgical, 0 wails, so not that surprised to see aff overperform.
I played dredge at this event and can confirm, LOTS of gy hate floating around to fight shadow decks and dredge got hated on incidentally. Squeeked into day 2 and was even more harsh there, I saw way more rest in peace than goldfish would suggest and lots of decks that ordinarily wouldn't make day 2 based on the archetype/pilot were performing quite well based on an ability to capitalize on it. Lots of bant spirits, gw tron, gw elves, and gw coco decks sporting ~3 rip sb along with scooze/relics. Even faced an eldrazi tron pilot day 2 with 3 md relic, 4th sb along with 3 cages, 2 surgical, 0 wails, so not that surprised to see aff overperform.
Also the GY hate also incidentally hates out Shadow strategies by shutting off Snapcaster and making Tasigur/Angler impossible to cast. Probably helped thin the numbers dramatically from the reports of ~25% of the field.
Played against 3 Affinity, 3 Shadow, and 1 UWR Kiki? on Day 1. Day 2 was 6 different decks. Pretty diverse meta and less E Tron than I would have thought. Less Dredge too...
Its becoming more clear to me, the guy who tracks dredge dad for the dredge primer, and even the the dredge posters that modern has two "Boogieman decks of the format" and it's a very Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde relationship. When Affinity does well and people board for it cutting grave hate, Dredge shows the format what a real boggie man looks like. When people board for grave, Affinty position stenghtens again.
Thats a new mini layer of complexity to our format from here on out. And thats honestly a good thing.
Dredge is way more toxic to the format than Affinity is. Affinity is a known quantity that folks know and are ok with. It's interactive, it feels fast but fair. Dredge is non interactive and is completely about whether or not hate is on the table. Thus dredge bans. It's an obnoxious toxic archetype that makes for boring one sided matches. There's no wonder why WOTC keeps it in check with bans.
Yeah, that's not true. I'll go ahead and rebuttal this once and then never reply to it again, because I know this isn't an argument I'm winning with you. Winning any argument with you is next to impossible.
But for the benefit to everyone else reading this thread: Does dredge have some elements banned? Sure. As does Eldrazi, jund, storm and EVEN affinity. As of today, affinity still has more things on the banned list than any other deck. Is dredge fair? Totally not. Does modern have to have only fair decks in it? No, it shouldnt.
Dredge punishes greedy sideboards. It also is a strong check TO affinity in the meta, which is good because that deck only ever gets better with time. Are there matchups it loses? Tons actually. Its slower than other unfair decks, so it generally straight up loses to stuff like scapeshift decks, even tron decks. It also loses to itself quite a bit. Aka... It has checks and checks other decks. Thats a healthy part of a meta. Are worms gross? Yeah totally, but they are needed in a healthy world, they just do dirty work.
Now then, Affinity feels interactive, fast and fair. Eh... not all the time. I did see the finals where death and taxes played fair magic WITH interaction and still lost. Affinity does the same gross speed dredge does (even faster actually) people used to complain a lot. Some people still think mox should be banned actually. But yes, it is a known quantity. And as much as you might hate it, dredge apparently is becoming a known quantity too if you see the results of this tournament. And having check requirements, especially sideboard the ones it causes WITH affinity is completely OK and sound for the modern meta game. Its been that known quantity in legacy for some times and modern players caught on.
Sorry if the deck makes you feel dirty sometimes. Theres more people who dont mind savagely beating beating dredge from sideboard tech. And congrats to them, they didn't risk it for the biscuit and played smart... like most people did with this diverse tournament. Even a pox guy made it. Smallpox is a good card.
Super on-board with Dredge not being categorically "worse" for the meta than other linear decks that attack from distinct angles (such as affinity, etc). I've never understood why the "but it strains the SB" argument is held as valid (by some) when applied to Dredge, but not Affinity.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Super on-board with Dredge not being categorically "worse" for the meta than other linear decks that attack from distinct angles (such as affinity, etc). I've never understood why the "but it strains the SB" argument is held as valid (by some) when applied to Dredge, but not Affinity.
Because traditional removal spells (targeted or sweepers) generally wreck Affinity and do nothing against creatures that keep recurring. Affinity can be fought with main deck cards, Dredge can only really be fought by racing or with specific sideboard hate cards.
Played against 3 Affinity, 3 Shadow, and 1 UWR Kiki? on Day 1. Day 2 was 6 different decks. Pretty diverse meta and less E Tron than I would have thought. Less Dredge too...
Its becoming more clear to me, the guy who tracks dredge dad for the dredge primer, and even the the dredge posters that modern has two "Boogieman decks of the format" and it's a very Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde relationship. When Affinity does well and people board for it cutting grave hate, Dredge shows the format what a real boggie man looks like. When people board for grave, Affinty position stenghtens again.
Thats a new mini layer of complexity to our format from here on out. And thats honestly a good thing.
I don't know why I didn't get a notification here for this post, but I just noticed the post now.
Yes, that is very true. People cut down their graveyard hate significantly. I cut 2 Ancient Grudge for 2 Grafdigger's Cage in Titan Shift. Thien Nyugen, running the Titan Shift lists that I mostly copy, put 4 MAIN BOARDRelic of Progenitus. I personally feel like this right now. Ancient Grudge is absent from the meta. Shatterstorm or even heaven forbid, Creeping Corrosion, are 100% nonexistent. Shattering Spree is nearly on par with this. Stony Silence always has some copies, but it has gone down. And Affinity is jamming Etched Champions and going the creature route when Stony comes out anyway (I realize that some draws are still vulnerable)
It is an interesting relationship and I agree with wpgstevo that people get upset about Dredge takings slots, but don't mind Affinity. This is probably because Affinity has done this since it's been in Modern (hint...2011).
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Super on-board with Dredge not being categorically "worse" for the meta than other linear decks that attack from distinct angles (such as affinity, etc). I've never understood why the "but it strains the SB" argument is held as valid (by some) when applied to Dredge, but not Affinity.
Because traditional removal spells (targeted or sweepers) generally wreck Affinity and do nothing against creatures that keep recurring. Affinity can be fought with main deck cards, Dredge can only really be fought by racing or with specific sideboard hate cards.
But alot of modern decks... DO that. the only ones that dont are the grindier ones. You're correct. The correct way to beat dredge is by doing a sideboard check (And yes, building a correct sideboard and main deck to meta IS skillful.) or race it. Racing it really isnt an option with affinity... But the decks affinity wins against (tron, scapeshift, ect) Dredge loses too.
They are different decks, and the people mad at dredge are the ones who like affinity. The people mad at affinity, generally love their dredge matchup.
So what "traditional removal spells are bad vs them", dredge isnt traditional, and traditional isnt how you are suppose to beat them. You can, very validly beat them with racing... which lots of decks do. Decks are allowed to have different matchups. As we saw.
Jund or grixis control doesn't automatically claim the title: "I should be able to beat any creature deck with my removal spells" Dredge isnt a fair deck, but in the larger scope of what it loses to and what it checks, its completely fine for modern. We dont need to dumb the format down. If affinity is fine, so is dredge.
I have to agree with Cfusion, removal is rarely meaningful in interaction against dredge, and people aren't packing main GY hate.
Two pushes in your opener hand can be a brutal beating to Affinity, it's not to something like dredge
Games 2 and 3 I see my hate cards or I don't, there is rarely meaningful interaction with dredge, it's either see your GY hate or play your own linear deck and race them
I feel dredge is a toxic deck and a huge mistake of a game mechanic, but I'm not calling for a ban or anything.
I don't think it's some "interesting" Jeckel and Hyde scenario, I think it's an incentive to play your own solitaire deck since there isn't enough SB space for fair decks to fight all of this (Obviously I'm not counting Grixis Shadow).
People are less upset about Affinity because straight up, good removal that fights a ton of other decks, can work well, in the maindeck
interactive decks can't really afford the maindeck gy hate minus a spellbomb, I'm trying to think if blue decks ever use MD GY hate. Combo decks are certainly taking that route.
I wouldn't mind WOTC banning Reunion, but that's where red seems to be in standard.
Played against 3 Affinity, 3 Shadow, and 1 UWR Kiki? on Day 1. Day 2 was 6 different decks. Pretty diverse meta and less E Tron than I would have thought. Less Dredge too...
Its becoming more clear to me, the guy who tracks dredge dad for the dredge primer, and even the the dredge posters that modern has two "Boogieman decks of the format" and it's a very Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde relationship. When Affinity does well and people board for it cutting grave hate, Dredge shows the format what a real boggie man looks like. When people board for grave, Affinty position stenghtens again.
Thats a new mini layer of complexity to our format from here on out. And thats honestly a good thing.
Yeah I'm totally loving it. It forces people to think and pay attention to trends. Modern is in such a fine place right now.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
I have to agree with Cfusion, removal is rarely meaningful in interaction against dredge, and people aren't packing main GY hate.
Two pushes in your opener hand can be a brutal beating to Affinity, it's not to something like dredge
Games 2 and 3 I see my hate cards or I don't, there is rarely meaningful interaction with dredge, it's either see your GY hate or play your own linear deck and race them
I feel dredge is a toxic deck and a huge mistake of a game mechanic, but I'm not calling for a ban or anything.
I don't think it's some "interesting" Jeckel and Hyde scenario, I think it's an incentive to play your own solitaire deck since there isn't enough SB space for fair decks to fight all of this (Obviously I'm not counting Grixis Shadow).
People are less upset about Affinity because straight up, good removal that fights a ton of other decks, can work well, in the maindeck
interactive decks can't really afford the maindeck gy hate minus a spellbomb, I'm trying to think if blue decks ever use MD GY hate. Combo decks are certainly taking that route.
I wouldn't mind WOTC banning Reunion, but that's where red seems to be in standard.
This is absolutely correct.
Most normal cards don't do anything in the dredge match-up. That's the main reason people have disliked it on all levels and one of the main reasons stated by Wizards as to why they like to ban it. It isn't fun to hope you drew RIP and that their is no answer. We can beat affinity just fine without any specific artifact hate. Normal removal that's good against other decks does the trick.
I have to agree with Cfusion, removal is rarely meaningful in interaction against dredge, and people aren't packing main GY hate.
Two pushes in your opener hand can be a brutal beating to Affinity, it's not to something like dredge
Games 2 and 3 I see my hate cards or I don't, there is rarely meaningful interaction with dredge, it's either see your GY hate or play your own linear deck and race them
I feel dredge is a toxic deck and a huge mistake of a game mechanic, but I'm not calling for a ban or anything.
I don't think it's some "interesting" Jeckel and Hyde scenario, I think it's an incentive to play your own solitaire deck since there isn't enough SB space for fair decks to fight all of this (Obviously I'm not counting Grixis Shadow).
People are less upset about Affinity because straight up, good removal that fights a ton of other decks, can work well, in the maindeck
interactive decks can't really afford the maindeck gy hate minus a spellbomb, I'm trying to think if blue decks ever use MD GY hate. Combo decks are certainly taking that route.
I wouldn't mind WOTC banning Reunion, but that's where red seems to be in standard.
This is absolutely correct.
Most normal cards don't do anything in the dredge match-up. That's the main reason people have disliked it on all levels and one of the main reasons stated by Wizards as to why they like to ban it. It isn't fun to hope you drew RIP and that their is no answer. We can beat affinity just fine without any specific artifact hate. Normal removal that's good against other decks does the trick.
There's a normal card in Ixalan that will address Dredge pretty well. I won't do spoilers here, but you can search for it yourself. Just be patient and wait for new printings.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
These grindy grixis decks are just dominating Legacy and Modern now. Highly interactive that rewards strong tight play. This is what we wanted right? That said, Mirran Crusader is an amazing card now.
Mirran Crusader dies to bolt and khologhan's command. I don't think he's the answer to Grixis.
It only dies to bolt. K Command is black. And I think DS shadow only has like 1 or 2 bolts. They'll have to sideboard in another 2 or 3 bolts (or replace terminate) to deal with one card along with using the bolts to take care of anything else like Birds or other problem creatures. I like those odds for Mirran.
And it looks like from what I see DS gets beat by other grindy decks, but destroys linear decks. Then again I maintain the opinion that tiers only really matter when players of equal skill at the very top level play. I think BBD can still destroy us 9 out of 10 times if I gave him a tier 3 deck and i play Grixis Death Shadow.
You're right. Electrolyze answers Mirran Crusader and Lingering souls, so we may see more of those in Grixis's 75. I also imagine that Grixis lists will bump their lightning bolt count to 4 after losing to Crusader.
For the dredge vs affinity argument, they're both very similar decks to me. Terminate may not take out a bloodghast but it doesn't take out an etched champion either. Both decks have very high win rates game 1 and you need SB hate to battle them. Also, there are cards that you can run MB to deal with dredge like path to exile, Kalitas, scooze, anger of the gods(for RW blood moon), etc. Even without dredge you would need GY hate for storm, abzan Coco, Junk, Grixis, etc.
GY hate and artifact hate have been the 2 things SB have had to address, and that's one of the reasons why Rakdos Charm sees a lot more play in eternal formats than other charms from ravnica. Back when everyone ran DRS people didn't need GY hate in the sideboard, but then after a DRS ban Reanimator won a tournament.
When you create a sideboard, make sure it has artifact hate and GY hate. Modern has tons of good GY hate and artifact hate, and some cards like khologhan's command and anger of the gods can do more than just hate on GYs or hate on artifacts. I don't understand people complaining about needing SB cards to win matches. Choosing a deck that has a good sideboard and choosing a sideboard that is effective against your meta is another strategic choice that makes Magic a great strategy game.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Played against 3 Affinity, 3 Shadow, and 1 UWR Kiki? on Day 1. Day 2 was 6 different decks. Pretty diverse meta and less E Tron than I would have thought. Less Dredge too...
Its becoming more clear to me, the guy who tracks dredge dad for the dredge primer, and even the the dredge posters that modern has two "Boogieman decks of the format" and it's a very Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde relationship. When Affinity does well and people board for it cutting grave hate, Dredge shows the format what a real boggie man looks like. When people board for grave, Affinty position stenghtens again.
Thats a new mini layer of complexity to our format from here on out. And thats honestly a good thing.
Dredge is way more toxic to the format than Affinity is. Affinity is a known quantity that folks know and are ok with. It's interactive, it feels fast but fair. Dredge is non interactive and is completely about whether or not hate is on the table. Thus dredge bans. It's an obnoxious toxic archetype that makes for boring one sided matches. There's no wonder why WOTC keeps it in check with bans.
Oh the salt is real!
Lost a couple games against Dredge lately?
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Even more reason to not only look at the top 8 but better top 16/32 of such a big tournament if you wanna judge format health.
Since nobody posted them yet here you can find the top 8 decklists and here place 9 to 32.
-No Grixis Shadow in the top 8 really surprised me (and probably pretty much everyone)
-6 Grixis Death Shadow and 6 Affinity decks in the top 32. Besides that 18 different archetypes.
-Notably Taking Turns in top 8! BW Smallpox, Jeskai Control, 'Faeries' (playing only BB and SSS main), and the GW Humans deck in top 32. No Storm to be seen.
I think this is really good news for modern overall. The 'best deck' Grixis Shadow is a new force to be prepared for, but you can beat it if you are prepared for it. Affinity seems to profit from the fact that people finally run more gravehate in the SB.
Modern is still the format where you can take some 'bad' Tier 3 deck and Top 8 a huge tournament with it (Taking Turns) and it's still worth it to play the deck you know and love instead of just hopping onto the next 'best' deck (see Wescoe and his Hatebears).
The format seems to be in pretty decent shape right now.
Hell yeah.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
That Faeries deck looks a lot more like a UB control deck that happens to play Bitterblossom than than a Faeries tribal deck.
Its becoming more clear to me, the guy who tracks dredge dad for the dredge primer, and even the the dredge posters that modern has two "Boogieman decks of the format" and it's a very Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde relationship. When Affinity does well and people board for it cutting grave hate, Dredge shows the format what a real boggie man looks like. When people board for grave, Affinty position stenghtens again.
Thats a new mini layer of complexity to our format from here on out. And thats honestly a good thing.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Yeah, that's not true. I'll go ahead and rebuttal this once and then never reply to it again, because I know this isn't an argument I'm winning with you. Winning any argument with you is next to impossible.
But for the benefit to everyone else reading this thread: Does dredge have some elements banned? Sure. As does Eldrazi, jund, storm and EVEN affinity. As of today, affinity still has more things on the banned list than any other deck. Is dredge fair? Totally not. Does modern have to have only fair decks in it? No, it shouldnt.
Dredge punishes greedy sideboards. It also is a strong check TO affinity in the meta, which is good because that deck only ever gets better with time. Are there matchups it loses? Tons actually. Its slower than other unfair decks, so it generally straight up loses to stuff like scapeshift decks, even tron decks. It also loses to itself quite a bit. Aka... It has checks and checks other decks. Thats a healthy part of a meta. Are worms gross? Yeah totally, but they are needed in a healthy world, they just do dirty work.
Now then, Affinity feels interactive, fast and fair. Eh... not all the time. I did see the finals where death and taxes played fair magic WITH interaction and still lost. Affinity does the same gross speed dredge does (even faster actually) people used to complain a lot. Some people still think mox should be banned actually. But yes, it is a known quantity. And as much as you might hate it, dredge apparently is becoming a known quantity too if you see the results of this tournament. And having check requirements, especially sideboard the ones it causes WITH affinity is completely OK and sound for the modern meta game. Its been that known quantity in legacy for some times and modern players caught on.
Sorry if the deck makes you feel dirty sometimes. Theres more people who dont mind savagely beating beating dredge from sideboard tech. And congrats to them, they didn't risk it for the biscuit and played smart... like most people did with this diverse tournament. Even a pox guy made it. Smallpox is a good card.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Because traditional removal spells (targeted or sweepers) generally wreck Affinity and do nothing against creatures that keep recurring. Affinity can be fought with main deck cards, Dredge can only really be fought by racing or with specific sideboard hate cards.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I don't know why I didn't get a notification here for this post, but I just noticed the post now.
Yes, that is very true. People cut down their graveyard hate significantly. I cut 2 Ancient Grudge for 2 Grafdigger's Cage in Titan Shift. Thien Nyugen, running the Titan Shift lists that I mostly copy, put 4 MAIN BOARD Relic of Progenitus. I personally feel like this right now. Ancient Grudge is absent from the meta. Shatterstorm or even heaven forbid, Creeping Corrosion, are 100% nonexistent. Shattering Spree is nearly on par with this. Stony Silence always has some copies, but it has gone down. And Affinity is jamming Etched Champions and going the creature route when Stony comes out anyway (I realize that some draws are still vulnerable)
It is an interesting relationship and I agree with wpgstevo that people get upset about Dredge takings slots, but don't mind Affinity. This is probably because Affinity has done this since it's been in Modern (hint...2011).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)But alot of modern decks... DO that. the only ones that dont are the grindier ones. You're correct. The correct way to beat dredge is by doing a sideboard check (And yes, building a correct sideboard and main deck to meta IS skillful.) or race it. Racing it really isnt an option with affinity... But the decks affinity wins against (tron, scapeshift, ect) Dredge loses too.
They are different decks, and the people mad at dredge are the ones who like affinity. The people mad at affinity, generally love their dredge matchup.
So what "traditional removal spells are bad vs them", dredge isnt traditional, and traditional isnt how you are suppose to beat them. You can, very validly beat them with racing... which lots of decks do. Decks are allowed to have different matchups. As we saw.
Jund or grixis control doesn't automatically claim the title: "I should be able to beat any creature deck with my removal spells" Dredge isnt a fair deck, but in the larger scope of what it loses to and what it checks, its completely fine for modern. We dont need to dumb the format down. If affinity is fine, so is dredge.
Two pushes in your opener hand can be a brutal beating to Affinity, it's not to something like dredge
Games 2 and 3 I see my hate cards or I don't, there is rarely meaningful interaction with dredge, it's either see your GY hate or play your own linear deck and race them
I feel dredge is a toxic deck and a huge mistake of a game mechanic, but I'm not calling for a ban or anything.
I don't think it's some "interesting" Jeckel and Hyde scenario, I think it's an incentive to play your own solitaire deck since there isn't enough SB space for fair decks to fight all of this (Obviously I'm not counting Grixis Shadow).
People are less upset about Affinity because straight up, good removal that fights a ton of other decks, can work well, in the maindeck
interactive decks can't really afford the maindeck gy hate minus a spellbomb, I'm trying to think if blue decks ever use MD GY hate. Combo decks are certainly taking that route.
I wouldn't mind WOTC banning Reunion, but that's where red seems to be in standard.
Yeah I'm totally loving it. It forces people to think and pay attention to trends. Modern is in such a fine place right now.
This is absolutely correct.
Most normal cards don't do anything in the dredge match-up. That's the main reason people have disliked it on all levels and one of the main reasons stated by Wizards as to why they like to ban it. It isn't fun to hope you drew RIP and that their is no answer. We can beat affinity just fine without any specific artifact hate. Normal removal that's good against other decks does the trick.
There's a normal card in Ixalan that will address Dredge pretty well. I won't do spoilers here, but you can search for it yourself. Just be patient and wait for new printings.
You're right. Electrolyze answers Mirran Crusader and Lingering souls, so we may see more of those in Grixis's 75. I also imagine that Grixis lists will bump their lightning bolt count to 4 after losing to Crusader.
For the dredge vs affinity argument, they're both very similar decks to me. Terminate may not take out a bloodghast but it doesn't take out an etched champion either. Both decks have very high win rates game 1 and you need SB hate to battle them. Also, there are cards that you can run MB to deal with dredge like path to exile, Kalitas, scooze, anger of the gods(for RW blood moon), etc. Even without dredge you would need GY hate for storm, abzan Coco, Junk, Grixis, etc.
GY hate and artifact hate have been the 2 things SB have had to address, and that's one of the reasons why Rakdos Charm sees a lot more play in eternal formats than other charms from ravnica. Back when everyone ran DRS people didn't need GY hate in the sideboard, but then after a DRS ban Reanimator won a tournament.
When you create a sideboard, make sure it has artifact hate and GY hate. Modern has tons of good GY hate and artifact hate, and some cards like khologhan's command and anger of the gods can do more than just hate on GYs or hate on artifacts. I don't understand people complaining about needing SB cards to win matches. Choosing a deck that has a good sideboard and choosing a sideboard that is effective against your meta is another strategic choice that makes Magic a great strategy game.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Oh the salt is real!
Lost a couple games against Dredge lately?
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal