sorry i didn't rehash all of your review into my reply, but I didn't want to boggart the entire page of the thread with it.
The problem I have with your assessment of Supreme Will is the "its isn't dead until turns 3-5" but you can't even cast the mana leak side until turn 3 so it is always closer to starting out as dead half of a card. I think Censor is better over all because while it isn't taxing the spell for as much it also is all around cheaper for each function the card offers. Not saying it wont see play, I just have trouble thinking of a deck that can actually make use of it. Esper is already heavily clogged at the 3cc and this doesn't seem better than the things like Esper Charm or Lingering Souls, UW doesn't even run many counters at all and the ones it prefers are hard counters with upside like Cryptic or functionally hard counters like Logic Knot, Grixis also runs very light on counters in favor of creature removal and Cryptic or Spell Snare as hard counter options, Jeskai similar to UW doesn't run many counters and the ones it does run are again leaning more towards the harder counter options and is more of a long game burn deck with creature removal; maybe they swap out the one of leak for this?
Again I'm not saying it will not see play, its just that 3 mana is expensive for a affect that currently sees little to no play in the decks that have access to the affect for a mana less.
Nimble Obstructionist also I think will suffer from the cost stapled onto it, if it had the ability as a ETB trigger on top of the cycle affect it would be much more playable but as it stands the format is so fast and most decks that offering targets for the affect are doing so very early T1 T2 so maybe you snipe a T3 fetch but decks like Grixis DS will have most likely seen him in your hand by that point and either discarded him if he is problematic or simply be at a phase in the game in which they can disregard him as they will likely have you in a position of needing to cast him to chump block. And cycling this against something like Inkmoth Nexus just seems like a losing situation since affinity likely can simply pay 1 to activate it in response so you achieved what? making a Inkmoth activation cost 2 instead of 1? hardly seems worth it. the Stifle affect should have been costed at 1U if the creature is going to simply be a vanilla flash flier.
I also think that Bontu's Last Reckoning is a bit better than your giving it credit for, I could see it easily sliding into any UBx since getting to the late game is paramount in those types of decks and casting this on 3, serum visions or fatal push on 4, and having the option to Snap it back on 5 seems like a solid plan for pulling aggro decks into deep water. Haste creatures are not hyper prevalent out side of burn and your likely isn't going to want to over commit in the face of a follow up wipe on 5.
Hallow One doesn't seem worthy of a Honorable mention his stats are just bad, if you cast him for 1 you get a vanilla 4/4, way better things that you can cheat into play for 1 mana in the format. Not to mention he dies to the shatter half of Kcommand which just seems like such a swing in favor of the Kcommand caster.
Hollow One is a free card when you meet it's threshold and that's worth talking about. "dies to removal" is a poor argument for him not seeing play since he dodges fatal push/bolt with ease. I can see reanimator decks trying it out at the very least since they run faithless looting/other loot effects. Explain why Damnation/Supreme Verdict/Wrath of God are worse than Bontu's last reckoning in traditional decks that are full of removal. Out of the tier 1 decks only affinity kills you by turn 3 with creatures alone for someone to turn faster wrath. Bontu's last reckoning needs a reason to be played over the other ones for it's high drawback. You have to think of Obstructionist like shadow of doubt where it gets you value for very little cost or it's a beater. You are mad that it doesn't do everything. I agree to disagree on how you view supreme will. The most played deck in the format is almost never out of mana leak range. Supreme Will slots into UW control nicely as a 1-2 of since that deck has almost nothing to do on turn 3 of it's curve.
So full spoiler is up. Didn't Wizards say we were supposed to get all these great reactive and answer cards specifically starting in this set? Because wow, talk about swing-and-a-miss. Over-costed and under-powered versions of cards that already exist, or that contain a horrendous drawback seem to be the norm, even when they are "trying?" Or was this that another hopeful, obviously-misleading statement made to shut us up for a few months? I don't remember who said that line or when, but wow, talk about a bland set. Knock off 1 of SO MANY cards and you'd have some amazing stuff.
Claim // Fame looks good, but is an enabler, not an answer. And Liliana's Defeat at sorcery speed is too narrow to see any real play. Seems Dreadbore would be so much better since it has no restrictions.
No, they said it would start with the fall set. This is the set they said we'd have to live with until Ixalan comes out. Given the leak I'm not holding my breath.
As someone who buys cards up to build with in constructed this entire block is cringe worthy outside of limited. It's not often you see a set where everything is so badly overcosted, at the wrong rarity, etc that your brain wants to shut down half way through the spoiler season. Well, it's that or the conversation I had with a friend recently that basically ended with the comment that the old guys near retirement who probably want more money would gladly cut card quality as people will keep buying poorly made cards anyway (this is in regards to materials / print quality, not the design of the cards).
Our future is recycle toilet paper mtg cards that will require quadruple card sleeving with the solid backs sold separately. Hasbro's new tagline: we make it because you need it!
I'm pretty sure MaRo specifically said that Hour was the set where they began specifically designing better answer cards, but I can't find the quote myself. Maybe he meant for Standard? either way, it seems most people in the Full List thread on Rumor Mill have been pretty disappointed as well. They share the same analysis: 1-2 interesting cards that MIGHT see play in Modern, a handful of somewhat interesting EDH cards, and a heaping pile of Limited fodder.
sorry i didn't rehash all of your review into my reply, but I didn't want to boggart the entire page of the thread with it.
The problem I have with your assessment of Supreme Will is the "its isn't dead until turns 3-5" but you can't even cast the mana leak side until turn 3 so it is always closer to starting out as dead half of a card. I think Censor is better over all because while it isn't taxing the spell for as much it also is all around cheaper for each function the card offers. Not saying it wont see play, I just have trouble thinking of a deck that can actually make use of it. Esper is already heavily clogged at the 3cc and this doesn't seem better than the things like Esper Charm or Lingering Souls, UW doesn't even run many counters at all and the ones it prefers are hard counters with upside like Cryptic or functionally hard counters like Logic Knot, Grixis also runs very light on counters in favor of creature removal and Cryptic or Spell Snare as hard counter options, Jeskai similar to UW doesn't run many counters and the ones it does run are again leaning more towards the harder counter options and is more of a long game burn deck with creature removal; maybe they swap out the one of leak for this?
Again I'm not saying it will not see play, its just that 3 mana is expensive for a affect that currently sees little to no play in the decks that have access to the affect for a mana less.
Nimble Obstructionist also I think will suffer from the cost stapled onto it, if it had the ability as a ETB trigger on top of the cycle affect it would be much more playable but as it stands the format is so fast and most decks that offering targets for the affect are doing so very early T1 T2 so maybe you snipe a T3 fetch but decks like Grixis DS will have most likely seen him in your hand by that point and either discarded him if he is problematic or simply be at a phase in the game in which they can disregard him as they will likely have you in a position of needing to cast him to chump block. And cycling this against something like Inkmoth Nexus just seems like a losing situation since affinity likely can simply pay 1 to activate it in response so you achieved what? making a Inkmoth activation cost 2 instead of 1? hardly seems worth it. the Stifle affect should have been costed at 1U if the creature is going to simply be a vanilla flash flier.
I also think that Bontu's Last Reckoning is a bit better than your giving it credit for, I could see it easily sliding into any UBx since getting to the late game is paramount in those types of decks and casting this on 3, serum visions or fatal push on 4, and having the option to Snap it back on 5 seems like a solid plan for pulling aggro decks into deep water. Haste creatures are not hyper prevalent out side of burn and your likely isn't going to want to over commit in the face of a follow up wipe on 5.
Hallow One doesn't seem worthy of a Honorable mention his stats are just bad, if you cast him for 1 you get a vanilla 4/4, way better things that you can cheat into play for 1 mana in the format. Not to mention he dies to the shatter half of Kcommand which just seems like such a swing in favor of the Kcommand caster.
Hollow One is a free card when you meet it's threshold and that's worth talking about. "dies to removal" is a poor argument for him not seeing play since he dodges fatal push/bolt with ease. I can see reanimator decks trying it out at the very least since they run faithless looting/other loot effects. Explain why Damnation/Supreme Verdict/Wrath of God are worse than Bontu's reckoning in traditional decks that are full of removal. Out of the tier 1 decks only affinity kills you by turn 3 with creatures alone for someone to turn faster wrath. Bontu's last reckoning needs a reason to be played over the other ones for it's high drawback. You have to think of Obstructionist like shadow of doubt where it gets you value for very little cost or it's a beater. You are mad that it doesn't do everything. I agree to disagree on how you view supreme will. The most played deck in the format is almost never out of mana leak range.
First off I didn't say "dies to removal" I said it dies to the least relevant side of Kcommand and I don't see reanimator decks wanting to slow down their main plan for this which it will have to do to facilitate the cards existence in the deck. Maybe a sideboard card against RiP/ Relic affects but out side of that it seems like a card that simply would make their primary plan less consistent as they will have to cut pieces to have it in the builds. Maybe Living end runs it as a early blocker while they dig for cascade cards? but again they already run utility creatures like Fulminator and Fae that pull double duty.
I didn't say that Supreme Verdict or any other wrath is worst than Bontu's, it isn't very nice to assert that I claimed something I didn't. I simply said that this is cheaper, and in Modern cheaper tends to mean better. All I said was that this is able to do what those do earlier, yes it has a draw back but it isn't as devastating as it would be for the others given that clearing the board is so much more useful than the other god's last etc.. cards. A turn against decks like DS or Affinity or Zoo or even EldarziTron makes a huge difference and while the draw back is real another reality is that the majority of cards played in decks tend to be 1c.c. so you can wrath on 3 and still likely have 1 mana up to deal with a follow up or to cast a serum visions to set up for the next turn. Decks like Grixis Shadow and Affinity are often able to have multiple creatures on board by turn 2-3 and turn 4 is a long way off and most of the aggro decks can easily have you dead by then. Look at just how little any of the wraths you mentioned are actually seeing real play, Supreme Verdict sees some in UW control but again that deck still struggles to make it in a meta-game in which faster aggro decks which it should be having a positive match up. The cost of the other affects is why Anger of the Gods see's more play its quick enough in enough match ups and hurts a specific deck dredge a lot, the other wraths in the format don't even crack into the top 50 of just non-creature spells.
Again on Nimble Obstructionist, I think it is just to expensive to ever really gain "value" out of. The biggest difference between it and something like Shadow of Doubt is the cost, shadow cost 2 and can always simply cycle. The beater side of Obstructionist is actually the least exciting part of it a 3/1 flyer with flash that nets you value every time its cast is already available and doesn't see play (clique) and I think it isn't seeing play for the same reasons the format is very quick and 3 mana for such a underwhelming card doesn't scream out to me as the 3/1 body attached to a vanilla creature doesn't scream out "beater" at all imo and if you are most often casting it for the body it is terrible. If the format ever moves back towards mid-range decks than the card becomes instantly playable, its just that in the current meta it seems to slow for anything its offering to see real play.
4
Claim // Fame (mostly just the Claim half, even though it's worse than Unearth)
3
Solemnity (combos with Phyrexian Unlife)
Lurching Rotbeast (Living End. Second rate compared to Horror or Carabid, but every black cycler counts.)
Scavenger Grounds (1-of in Eldrazi Tron. Bojuka Bog is better with Knight/Amulet)
2
Overwhelming Splendor
Steward of Solidarity (combos with Intruder Alarm. DAE unban Earthcraft? )
Sunscourge Champion (sleeper pick. It looks like a noob creature, but it's a 2/3 gain 2 followed by 4/4 gain 4. That's probably the definition of a noob creature though.)
Nimble Obstructionist
Strategic Planning (better than Taigam's Scheming, because it replaces itself)
Razaketh's Rite
Crash Through (replacement for Gitaxian Probe in Kiln Fiend)
Life Goes On (could have been better if it was revolt instead of morbid)
Ramunap Excavator
Consign // Oblivion
Hollow One
Hostile Desert
Defeat cycle (B>R=W>U>G)
God's Last _____ cycle and Hazoret's Undying Fury (B>R>G=W>U)
After thinking about it, I don't think the God's Last _____ cycle is that good. They get worse as the game goes on because those spells still exert the lands that you tapped for other spells. So if you Snap -> black wrath, you miss out on 5 lands worth of mana next turn, not 3. That's bad. It's less of a disadvantage for the red one because it's meant as a combo finisher, but it's an inconsistent combo finisher.
All the random Desert stuff doesn't seem playable. The payoff for building around Deserts is mostly creatures with combat abilities, which begs the question of "why not play Goyf/Tasigur/whatever efficient beater". They missed an opportunity to make Into the North for Deserts (Shefet Monitor doesn't count).
Overall there's enough random combos in this set to make me happy. Claim//Fame seems like a really good card for fair decks (by that I mean Grixis DS).
card # of decks on mtgtop8
Cartouche of Solidarity 1 Cast Out 14 Gideon of the Trials 20
Glory-Bound Initiate 1
Oketra the True 0
Renewed Faith 0 Vizier of Remedies 69
As Foretold 2 (both UW control with AV and RB)
Censor 6
Cryptic Serpent 1
Curator of Mysteries 2 (all LE)
Drake Haven 0
Kefnet the Mindful 2
New Perspectives 0
Pull from Tomorrow 1 Archfiend of Ifnir 24 (all LE)
Bone Picker 1
Bontu the Glorified 0 Horror of the Broken Lands 34 (all LE)
Liliana, Death's Majesty 0
Plague Belcher 0
Shadow of the Grave 0
Trial of Ambition 0 By Force 16
Consuming Fervor 0 Desert Cerodon 32 (all LE)
Flameblade Adept 0
Glorious End 0
Harsh Mentor 8
Hazoret the Fervent 8
Soul-Scar Mage 0 Sweltering Suns 19
Channeler Initiate 0
Dissenter's Deliverance 1
Exemplar of Strength 0
Greater Sandwurm 0
Honored Hydra 0
Manglehorn 5 Rhonas the Indomitable 26
Sixth Sense 0
Vizier of the Menagerie 5
Enigma Drake 0
Nissa, Steward of Elements 7
Samut, Voice of Dissent 0
Dusk // Dawn 9
Never // Return 4
Start // Finish 8 (7 Dredge, 1 Tokens)
Reduce // Rubble 3 (all redge)
Failure // Comply 0
Cut // Ribbons 0
Bontu's Monument 0
Hazoret's Monument 0
Kefnet's Monument 0
Oketra's Monument 0
Oracle's Vault 0
Pyramid of the Pantheon 0
Rhonas's Monument 0
Throne of the God-Pharaoh 1
Canyon Slough 10 (9 Dredge, 1 Rakdos Demigod)
Cascading Cataracts 0
Fetid Pools 2
Irrigated Farmland 9 (all UWx control)
Scattered Groves 0 Sheltered Thicket 21 (mostly Dredge and Valakut)
The best card form the set is Vizier of Remedies. Joel Larsson boldly predicted just that, and Harsh Mentor would be unplayable, so props to him. Vizier is the heart of both combos in the Company deck (Seer + Vizier + Finks, Devoted Druid + Vizier + Recruiter/Chord/Ballista/Rhonas), and one of those combos doesn't use the graveyard.
The next best cards are the cyclers for Living End: Horror, Cerodon and Archfiend. The extra 1-mana cyclers have made the deck much more mana-efficient; you'll see nary a Jungle Weaver or Pale Recluse in today's LE. Archfiend costs 2 to cycle, but he comes with a relevant ability and evasion. Nevertheless, he's often played as a 2-of, not 4-of. Also worth noting that the overwhelming majority of LE decks did not add blue for Curator of Mysteries or the plan Bs of Drake Haven/As Foretold.
Yep. I'll admit I was off with harsh mentor. Seemed good in paper, but failed in practice. Just didnt hit enough things. Or it didnt deal enough damage for the few it hit. I do think it was a miss, but a better version of the ability could still be amazing.
Rhonas the Indomitable showing up still shows its power. I've played around a lot with the card and found that the most lacking thing about it is how alone it is in modern. It needs a 4/4 for 2 buddy to exist (thats good) outside of goyf. Then itd see a lot more play as the premiere 3 cmc green drop for green creature decks (zoo, stompy, various hate midrange decks.)
I know it's not popular anymore but vizier-less CoCo can now switch from Redcap to the new Obelisk Spider as a win condition. Easier on mana and can get it off of CoCo too.
I mean, thats a 4 card combo, right? Sac outlet, way to undo persist counters, persist creature, and spider. Where as red cap is just 3 cards.
sorry i didn't rehash all of your review into my reply, but I didn't want to boggart the entire page of the thread with it.
The problem I have with your assessment of Supreme Will is the "its isn't dead until turns 3-5" but you can't even cast the mana leak side until turn 3 so it is always closer to starting out as dead half of a card. I think Censor is better over all because while it isn't taxing the spell for as much it also is all around cheaper for each function the card offers. Not saying it wont see play, I just have trouble thinking of a deck that can actually make use of it. Esper is already heavily clogged at the 3cc and this doesn't seem better than the things like Esper Charm or Lingering Souls, UW doesn't even run many counters at all and the ones it prefers are hard counters with upside like Cryptic or functionally hard counters like Logic Knot, Grixis also runs very light on counters in favor of creature removal and Cryptic or Spell Snare as hard counter options, Jeskai similar to UW doesn't run many counters and the ones it does run are again leaning more towards the harder counter options and is more of a long game burn deck with creature removal; maybe they swap out the one of leak for this?
Again I'm not saying it will not see play, its just that 3 mana is expensive for a affect that currently sees little to no play in the decks that have access to the affect for a mana less.
Nimble Obstructionist also I think will suffer from the cost stapled onto it, if it had the ability as a ETB trigger on top of the cycle affect it would be much more playable but as it stands the format is so fast and most decks that offering targets for the affect are doing so very early T1 T2 so maybe you snipe a T3 fetch but decks like Grixis DS will have most likely seen him in your hand by that point and either discarded him if he is problematic or simply be at a phase in the game in which they can disregard him as they will likely have you in a position of needing to cast him to chump block. And cycling this against something like Inkmoth Nexus just seems like a losing situation since affinity likely can simply pay 1 to activate it in response so you achieved what? making a Inkmoth activation cost 2 instead of 1? hardly seems worth it. the Stifle affect should have been costed at 1U if the creature is going to simply be a vanilla flash flier.
I also think that Bontu's Last Reckoning is a bit better than your giving it credit for, I could see it easily sliding into any UBx since getting to the late game is paramount in those types of decks and casting this on 3, serum visions or fatal push on 4, and having the option to Snap it back on 5 seems like a solid plan for pulling aggro decks into deep water. Haste creatures are not hyper prevalent out side of burn and your likely isn't going to want to over commit in the face of a follow up wipe on 5.
Hallow One doesn't seem worthy of a Honorable mention his stats are just bad, if you cast him for 1 you get a vanilla 4/4, way better things that you can cheat into play for 1 mana in the format. Not to mention he dies to the shatter half of Kcommand which just seems like such a swing in favor of the Kcommand caster.
Hollow One is a free card when you meet it's threshold and that's worth talking about. "dies to removal" is a poor argument for him not seeing play since he dodges fatal push/bolt with ease. I can see reanimator decks trying it out at the very least since they run faithless looting/other loot effects. Explain why Damnation/Supreme Verdict/Wrath of God are worse than Bontu's reckoning in traditional decks that are full of removal. Out of the tier 1 decks only affinity kills you by turn 3 with creatures alone for someone to turn faster wrath. Bontu's last reckoning needs a reason to be played over the other ones for it's high drawback. You have to think of Obstructionist like shadow of doubt where it gets you value for very little cost or it's a beater. You are mad that it doesn't do everything. I agree to disagree on how you view supreme will. The most played deck in the format is almost never out of mana leak range.
First off I didn't say "dies to removal" I said it dies to the least relevant side of Kcommand and I don't see reanimator decks wanting to slow down their main plan for this which it will have to do to facilitate the cards existence in the deck. Maybe a sideboard card against RiP/ Relic affects but out side of that it seems like a card that simply would make their primary plan less consistent as they will have to cut pieces to have it in the builds. Maybe Living end runs it as a early blocker while they dig for cascade cards? but again they already run utility creatures like Fulminator and Fae that pull double duty.
I didn't say that Supreme Verdict or any other wrath is worst than Bontu's, it isn't very nice to assert that I claimed something I didn't. I simply said that this is cheaper, and in Modern cheaper tends to mean better. All I said was that this is able to do what those do earlier, yes it has a draw back but it isn't as devastating as it would be for the others given that clearing the board is so much more useful than the other god's last etc.. cards. A turn against decks like DS or Affinity or Zoo or even EldarziTron makes a huge difference and while the draw back is real another reality is that the majority of cards played in decks tend to be 1c.c. so you can wrath on 3 and still likely have 1 mana up to deal with a follow up or to cast a serum visions to set up for the next turn. Decks like Grixis Shadow and Affinity are often able to have multiple creatures on board by turn 2-3 and turn 4 is a long way off and most of the aggro decks can easily have you dead by then. Look at just how little any of the wraths you mentioned are actually seeing real play, Supreme Verdict sees some in UW control but again that deck still struggles to make it in a meta-game in which faster aggro decks which it should be having a positive match up. The cost of the other affects is why Anger of the Gods see's more play its quick enough in enough match ups and hurts a specific deck dredge a lot, the other wraths in the format don't even crack into the top 50 of just non-creature spells.
Again on Nimble Obstructionist, I think it is just to expensive to ever really gain "value" out of. The biggest difference between it and something like Shadow of Doubt is the cost, shadow cost 2 and can always simply cycle. The beater side of Obstructionist is actually the least exciting part of it a 3/1 flyer with flash that nets you value every time its cast is already available and doesn't see play (clique) and I think it isn't seeing play for the same reasons the format is very quick and 3 mana for such a underwhelming card doesn't scream out to me as the 3/1 body attached to a vanilla creature doesn't scream out "beater" at all imo and if you are most often casting it for the body it is terrible. If the format ever moves back towards mid-range decks than the card becomes instantly playable, its just that in the current meta it seems to slow for anything its offering to see real play.
-This gives reanimtor a way to deal with graveyard hate since they can just start beating face with Hollow ones that they get off of their looting effects. This sounds great since Grixis reanimtor has NO WAY to beat a leyline of the void off of turn 0. I'm not confident on it seeing tons of play but that is worth mentioning hence why it got an honorable mention in my rating. Also you did say that it's bad because it dies to k-command without mentioning what removal it dodges which is very relevant. Being able to dodge fatal push and come down as a pesudo 1 mana 4/4 on turn 2 is something that only tasigur, the golden fang/gurmag angler can do which is interesting.
-Show me what statistic that anger of the gods is seeing more play than all the other wraths. The other wraths not seeing a ton a play is mainly because the decks that they go into are tier 2-3 in terms of power not because of the power level of the wraths themselves. Bontu's last reckoning has to be better than those cards to replace them hence why I asked that question. The only decks that I see Reckoning going into are 8 rack because it has issues hitting 4 mana, small pox because it plays so many planeswalkers that it doesn't mind taking a turn off and potentially tezzeret because mana rocks can help subsidize the cost.
-Have you played against a Vendilion Clique? 3/1 body on a flash creature can close out a game relatively fast since almost nothing in this format flies besides lingering souls. Nimble "always cycles" too since it's a cycling card. The best deck in the format is a "midrange" deck with a faster clock.
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Rhonas the Indomitable showing up still shows its power. I've played around a lot with the card and found that the most lacking thing about it is how alone it is in modern. It needs a 4/4 for 2 buddy to exist (thats good) outside of goyf. Then itd see a lot more play as the premiere 3 cmc green drop for green creature decks (zoo, stompy, various hate midrange decks.)
If by "its power" you mean its ability to serve as one of multiple win conditions for an infinite mana combo while being found off of a spell that cheats it into play at instant speed... As a stand alone creature... not so much.
-This gives reanimtor a way to deal with graveyard hate since they can just start beating face with Hollow ones that they get off of their looting effects. This sounds great since Grixis reanimtor has NO WAY to beat a leyline of the void off of turn 0. I'm not confident on it seeing tons of play but that is worth mentioning hence why it got an honorable mention in my rating. Also you did say that it's bad because it dies to k-command without mentioning what removal it dodges which is very relevant. Being able to dodge fatal push and come down as a pesudo 1 mana 4/4 on turn 2 is something that only tasigur, the golden fang/gurmag angler can do which is interesting.
sorry i didn't rehash all of your review into my reply, but I didn't want to boggart the entire page of the thread with it.
The problem I have with your assessment of Supreme Will is the "its isn't dead until turns 3-5" but you can't even cast the mana leak side until turn 3 so it is always closer to starting out as dead half of a card. I think Censor is better over all because while it isn't taxing the spell for as much it also is all around cheaper for each function the card offers. Not saying it wont see play, I just have trouble thinking of a deck that can actually make use of it. Esper is already heavily clogged at the 3cc and this doesn't seem better than the things like Esper Charm or Lingering Souls, UW doesn't even run many counters at all and the ones it prefers are hard counters with upside like Cryptic or functionally hard counters like Logic Knot, Grixis also runs very light on counters in favor of creature removal and Cryptic or Spell Snare as hard counter options, Jeskai similar to UW doesn't run many counters and the ones it does run are again leaning more towards the harder counter options and is more of a long game burn deck with creature removal; maybe they swap out the one of leak for this?
Again I'm not saying it will not see play, its just that 3 mana is expensive for a affect that currently sees little to no play in the decks that have access to the affect for a mana less.
Nimble Obstructionist also I think will suffer from the cost stapled onto it, if it had the ability as a ETB trigger on top of the cycle affect it would be much more playable but as it stands the format is so fast and most decks that offering targets for the affect are doing so very early T1 T2 so maybe you snipe a T3 fetch but decks like Grixis DS will have most likely seen him in your hand by that point and either discarded him if he is problematic or simply be at a phase in the game in which they can disregard him as they will likely have you in a position of needing to cast him to chump block. And cycling this against something like Inkmoth Nexus just seems like a losing situation since affinity likely can simply pay 1 to activate it in response so you achieved what? making a Inkmoth activation cost 2 instead of 1? hardly seems worth it. the Stifle affect should have been costed at 1U if the creature is going to simply be a vanilla flash flier.
I also think that Bontu's Last Reckoning is a bit better than your giving it credit for, I could see it easily sliding into any UBx since getting to the late game is paramount in those types of decks and casting this on 3, serum visions or fatal push on 4, and having the option to Snap it back on 5 seems like a solid plan for pulling aggro decks into deep water. Haste creatures are not hyper prevalent out side of burn and your likely isn't going to want to over commit in the face of a follow up wipe on 5.
Hallow One doesn't seem worthy of a Honorable mention his stats are just bad, if you cast him for 1 you get a vanilla 4/4, way better things that you can cheat into play for 1 mana in the format. Not to mention he dies to the shatter half of Kcommand which just seems like such a swing in favor of the Kcommand caster.
Hollow One is a free card when you meet it's threshold and that's worth talking about. "dies to removal" is a poor argument for him not seeing play since he dodges fatal push/bolt with ease. I can see reanimator decks trying it out at the very least since they run faithless looting/other loot effects. Explain why Damnation/Supreme Verdict/Wrath of God are worse than Bontu's reckoning in traditional decks that are full of removal. Out of the tier 1 decks only affinity kills you by turn 3 with creatures alone for someone to turn faster wrath. Bontu's last reckoning needs a reason to be played over the other ones for it's high drawback. You have to think of Obstructionist like shadow of doubt where it gets you value for very little cost or it's a beater. You are mad that it doesn't do everything. I agree to disagree on how you view supreme will. The most played deck in the format is almost never out of mana leak range.
First off I didn't say "dies to removal" I said it dies to the least relevant side of Kcommand and I don't see reanimator decks wanting to slow down their main plan for this which it will have to do to facilitate the cards existence in the deck. Maybe a sideboard card against RiP/ Relic affects but out side of that it seems like a card that simply would make their primary plan less consistent as they will have to cut pieces to have it in the builds. Maybe Living end runs it as a early blocker while they dig for cascade cards? but again they already run utility creatures like Fulminator and Fae that pull double duty.
I didn't say that Supreme Verdict or any other wrath is worst than Bontu's, it isn't very nice to assert that I claimed something I didn't. I simply said that this is cheaper, and in Modern cheaper tends to mean better. All I said was that this is able to do what those do earlier, yes it has a draw back but it isn't as devastating as it would be for the others given that clearing the board is so much more useful than the other god's last etc.. cards. A turn against decks like DS or Affinity or Zoo or even EldarziTron makes a huge difference and while the draw back is real another reality is that the majority of cards played in decks tend to be 1c.c. so you can wrath on 3 and still likely have 1 mana up to deal with a follow up or to cast a serum visions to set up for the next turn. Decks like Grixis Shadow and Affinity are often able to have multiple creatures on board by turn 2-3 and turn 4 is a long way off and most of the aggro decks can easily have you dead by then. Look at just how little any of the wraths you mentioned are actually seeing real play, Supreme Verdict sees some in UW control but again that deck still struggles to make it in a meta-game in which faster aggro decks which it should be having a positive match up. The cost of the other affects is why Anger of the Gods see's more play its quick enough in enough match ups and hurts a specific deck dredge a lot, the other wraths in the format don't even crack into the top 50 of just non-creature spells.
Again on Nimble Obstructionist, I think it is just to expensive to ever really gain "value" out of. The biggest difference between it and something like Shadow of Doubt is the cost, shadow cost 2 and can always simply cycle. The beater side of Obstructionist is actually the least exciting part of it a 3/1 flyer with flash that nets you value every time its cast is already available and doesn't see play (clique) and I think it isn't seeing play for the same reasons the format is very quick and 3 mana for such a underwhelming card doesn't scream out to me as the 3/1 body attached to a vanilla creature doesn't scream out "beater" at all imo and if you are most often casting it for the body it is terrible. If the format ever moves back towards mid-range decks than the card becomes instantly playable, its just that in the current meta it seems to slow for anything its offering to see real play.
-This gives reanimtor a way to deal with graveyard hate since they can just start beating face with Hollow ones that they get off of their looting effects. This sounds great since Grixis reanimtor has NO WAY to beat a leyline of the void off of turn 0. I'm not confident on it seeing tons of play but that is worth mentioning hence why it got an honorable mention in my rating. Also you did say that it's bad because it dies to k-command without mentioning what removal it dodges which is very relevant. Being able to dodge fatal push and come down as a pesudo 1 mana 4/4 on turn 2 is something that only tasigur, the golden fang/gurmag angler can do which is interesting.
-Show me what statistic that anger of the gods is seeing more play than all the other wraths. The other wraths not seeing a ton a play is mainly because the decks that they go into are tier 2-3 in terms of power not because of the power level of the wraths themselves. Bontu's last reckoning has to be better than those cards to replace them hence why I asked that question. The only decks that I see Reckoning going into are 8 rack because it has issues hitting 4 mana, small pox because it plays so many planeswalkers that it doesn't mind taking a turn off and potentially tezzeret because mana rocks can help subsidize the cost.
-Have you played against a Vendilion Clique? 3/1 body on a flash creature can close out a game relatively fast since almost nothing in this format flies besides lingering souls. Nimble "always cycles" too since it's a cycling card. The best deck in the format is a "midrange" deck with a faster clock.
No i specifically said it dies to the worst mode on Kcommand which isn't a positive quality for a card that takes as much set up as this does. So do you think that Reanimator is wanting to dilute its main plan to get a vanilla 4/4? It would decrease the odds of them hitting goryo's + some fatty by 2 plan and simple and I don't think that a vanilla 4/4 that doesn't even trade with Tas Angler or even DS more often than not is that terribly exciting.
Grixis Shadow isn't a mid-range deck period. It is a aggro-control deck its at its best when it runs out a DS and or Tas/Angler in the early turns and wins by turn 4-5, it is resilient because it can grind if it has to but its primary goal is beat down aggro while striping protecting its early threats. So your just wrong on that one.
I have a play set of cliques and I haven't gotten a chance to make use of them in a year. Again the cost is the biggest thing holding it back, what deck currently is this looking like a slam dunk against? I don't think having the Stifle affect costed one less is a crazy thing to say, given that the affect is often costed at 2 anyways. IMO if your casting this in the current meta it is likely just a chump blocker to hope to keep you alive another turn so you can hope to draw a relevant card, and even then the only thing you can block profitably in against Grixis DS is snapcaster mage which isn't exactly best of trade offs given that they would have already gotten value out of the snapcaster and you essentially get to play a 3 mana very narrow potential for trading card.
here yah go, anger is the only one on the list even with the narrowing of the search to just non-creature. I don't think Bontu's has to be better than the others out right, it is simply under costed for the same affect which currently could make the difference.
Rhonas the Indomitable showing up still shows its power. I've played around a lot with the card and found that the most lacking thing about it is how alone it is in modern. It needs a 4/4 for 2 buddy to exist (thats good) outside of goyf. Then itd see a lot more play as the premiere 3 cmc green drop for green creature decks (zoo, stompy, various hate midrange decks.)
If by "its power" you mean its ability to serve as one of multiple win conditions for an infinite mana combo while being found off of a spell that cheats it into play at instant speed... As a stand alone creature... not so much.
Knightfall and Zoo have used the creature as well. Its totally not true. Playing a fair Rhonas on curve, so long as you can enable it is still plunty powerful
Here are my thoughts on some of the newest released cards (and maybe older ones I haven't previously mentioned):
Djeru, With Eyes Open: If only Kiki-Jiki didn't exist and/or if only the removal walkers were better, Djeru would see play in the Kiki Chord-like CopyCat decks as a leggy way to find Saheeli Rai.
God-Pharaoh's Faithful: Stubborn Doran fans now have a 1-drop with relevant life gain (cast Doran and other black spells). I still like Disowned Ancestor more because he can trade with X/5's such as Reality Smasher by himself, though.
Saving Grace: A pretty nifty damage hoser card against Valakut/Scapeshift/Burn/etc., at least for Bogles. Fetch that Dryad Arbor and enchant it for one heck of a surprise. This is finally a reason to Open the Armory, IMO.
Steward of Solidarity: izzetmage is right--this DOES combo with Intruder Alarm. Unlike Thraben Doomsayer, it curves nicely into that enchantment, too. Actually, there might be a Knightfall-like deck in that idea...
Countervailing Winds: Supreme Will's brother for when you need both better combo protection and a poorer way to get your combo. My lower-curve UGr Scapeshift deck may be the only customer, though...
Riddleform: In some ways, this is a less demanding version of Myth Realized that's better early-game. In other ways, it may get fewer swings in, and it doesn't compare that favourably to Stormchaser Mage.
Spellweaver Eternal: In UR Tempo decks, this guy is going to hurt. It'll always get "damage" in thanks to Afflict, and the Prowess can make it deadly.
Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign: I don't know why I'm obsessed with finding a deck that can support at least 2 of him. No life gain hurts when I need a finisher I can stabilize with, and no Flash hurts, but the CA...I'm drooling at it...
Banewhip Punisher: So dang close to being my creature killer of choice in Melira Company. Unfortunately, it can't kill Scavenging Ooze unless the Ooze somehow hasn't eaten anything (thanks to +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters cancelling each other out), and it can't kill Linvala because it kills with an activated ability. Shucks, shucks, shucks...
Crash Through: Not bad if R/x Prowess decks still exist, especially since it doesn't target.
Beneath the Sands: Too bad it's a sorcery and it costs 3 mana--the Cycling option makes it great for Scapeshift otherwise, as I have a bad habit of flooding late-game.
I know it's not popular anymore but vizier-less CoCo can now switch from Redcap to the new Obelisk Spider as a win condition. Easier on mana and can get it off of CoCo too.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast prevents -1/-1 counters from going on your creatures, so no, it's not the new Melira No Vizier Company win con. Heck, I've seen lists with Blood Artist and Zulaport Cutthroat in the Spider slot.
Rhonas the Indomitable showing up still shows its power. I've played around a lot with the card and found that the most lacking thing about it is how alone it is in modern. It needs a 4/4 for 2 buddy to exist (thats good) outside of goyf. Then itd see a lot more play as the premiere 3 cmc green drop for green creature decks (zoo, stompy, various hate midrange decks.)
If by "its power" you mean its ability to serve as one of multiple win conditions for an infinite mana combo while being found off of a spell that cheats it into play at instant speed... As a stand alone creature... not so much.
Knightfall and Zoo have used the creature as well. Its totally not true. Playing a fair Rhonas on curve, so long as you can enable it is still plunty powerful
Definitely. It also works great in Sultai Toolbox alongside Angler and the Banana King. As long as you can get at least 1 creature with 2 power on the board with Rhonas, he can attack in a pinch- not something terribly difficult in Modern. A few people I know have been getting good results with him in midrange Jund because of how dominant he is in creature vs creature matchups. Rhonas the Indomitable is plenty good in its own right.
First time in a while that I've been excited about a new set. You can clearly see the design shift away from midrange battlecruiser toward more viable archetypes in Standard. Unfortunately like with every set there's only a limited number of standard cards that will transfer over to non rotating formats.
That said, there are some good cards here. I think we'll see 3-5 cards be solid role-players in Modern. None will make the splash that Fatal Push did, but not all cards need to or should.
What do people think of vile manifestation? I don't think there is an existing deck that is a home for it but it could get very big very fast in a cycling deck. That said i think the only cyling deck in modern is living end, and manifestation is bad in LE for several different reasons..
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
What do people think of vile manifestation? I don't think there is an existing deck that is a home for it but it could get very big very fast in a cycling deck. That said i think the only cyling deck in modern is living end, and manifestation is bad in LE for several different reasons..
Yeah that's a card that caught my eye too.
Could get huge in the right deck. But are there enough good cycling cards to play with him? I'll have to check Gatherer to see
First time in a while that I've been excited about a new set. You can clearly see the design shift away from midrange battlecruiser toward more viable archetypes in Standard. Unfortunately like with every set there's only a limited number of standard cards that will transfer over to non rotating formats.
That said, there are some good cards here. I think we'll see 3-5 cards be solid role-players in Modern. None will make the splash that Fatal Push did, but not all cards need to or should.
really? Looks like a bunch of 3-6c.c. mid-range stuff to me.
I dunno. Thia set screams edh to me. Like almost every csrd.
Took the thought right outta my head.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I dunno. Thia set screams edh to me. Like almost every csrd.
Well almost every set has like half the rares and mythic cards as EDH fodder. I was saying that the actual like potentially standard playable cards all just look like more mid-range creatures
Still not as good as Darksteel Ingot, not remotely close to Chromatic Lantern, and slower than Talismans and Signets.... but they will look SWEET in foil!
Still not as good as Darksteel Ingot, not remotely close to Chromatic Lantern, and slower than Talismans and Signets.... but they will look SWEET in foil!
Can't tell if serious. (scratches head)
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Still not as good as Darksteel Ingot, not remotely close to Chromatic Lantern, and slower than Talismans and Signets.... but they will look SWEET in foil!
Can't tell if serious. (scratches head)
I started off serious, then I remembered how tight all the mana rock slots are in all my decks and how far down the line this Manalith sits... I'll still probably pick some up in foil though because it's not unplayable and will look sweet. I only have 2 Chromatic Lanterns anyway.
Manalith is playable in what? Remember this is a thread in MODERN, not Commander/EDH.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Manalith is playable in what? Remember this is a thread in MODERN, not Commander/EDH.
We could make a list of cards that where dimed as unplayable until recently but I guess u would say something like "rogue deck" "noob deck" "why not play this instead" , etc...
Just to say lantern control was made up from "unplayable" cards.
Mono U Enginier combo ( or mono u afinity) is also a deck made up from mostly "unplayable" cards
Etc
Etc
Etc
Leave the man with his brews, no need to receber him that this is the modern not The EDH forum
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Hollow One is a free card when you meet it's threshold and that's worth talking about. "dies to removal" is a poor argument for him not seeing play since he dodges fatal push/bolt with ease. I can see reanimator decks trying it out at the very least since they run faithless looting/other loot effects. Explain why Damnation/Supreme Verdict/Wrath of God are worse than Bontu's last reckoning in traditional decks that are full of removal. Out of the tier 1 decks only affinity kills you by turn 3 with creatures alone for someone to turn faster wrath. Bontu's last reckoning needs a reason to be played over the other ones for it's high drawback. You have to think of Obstructionist like shadow of doubt where it gets you value for very little cost or it's a beater. You are mad that it doesn't do everything. I agree to disagree on how you view supreme will. The most played deck in the format is almost never out of mana leak range. Supreme Will slots into UW control nicely as a 1-2 of since that deck has almost nothing to do on turn 3 of it's curve.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I'm pretty sure MaRo specifically said that Hour was the set where they began specifically designing better answer cards, but I can't find the quote myself. Maybe he meant for Standard? either way, it seems most people in the Full List thread on Rumor Mill have been pretty disappointed as well. They share the same analysis: 1-2 interesting cards that MIGHT see play in Modern, a handful of somewhat interesting EDH cards, and a heaping pile of Limited fodder.
Edit: you also might find this video interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1QeXEX4hMQ
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
First off I didn't say "dies to removal" I said it dies to the least relevant side of Kcommand and I don't see reanimator decks wanting to slow down their main plan for this which it will have to do to facilitate the cards existence in the deck. Maybe a sideboard card against RiP/ Relic affects but out side of that it seems like a card that simply would make their primary plan less consistent as they will have to cut pieces to have it in the builds. Maybe Living end runs it as a early blocker while they dig for cascade cards? but again they already run utility creatures like Fulminator and Fae that pull double duty.
I didn't say that Supreme Verdict or any other wrath is worst than Bontu's, it isn't very nice to assert that I claimed something I didn't. I simply said that this is cheaper, and in Modern cheaper tends to mean better. All I said was that this is able to do what those do earlier, yes it has a draw back but it isn't as devastating as it would be for the others given that clearing the board is so much more useful than the other god's last etc.. cards. A turn against decks like DS or Affinity or Zoo or even EldarziTron makes a huge difference and while the draw back is real another reality is that the majority of cards played in decks tend to be 1c.c. so you can wrath on 3 and still likely have 1 mana up to deal with a follow up or to cast a serum visions to set up for the next turn. Decks like Grixis Shadow and Affinity are often able to have multiple creatures on board by turn 2-3 and turn 4 is a long way off and most of the aggro decks can easily have you dead by then. Look at just how little any of the wraths you mentioned are actually seeing real play, Supreme Verdict sees some in UW control but again that deck still struggles to make it in a meta-game in which faster aggro decks which it should be having a positive match up. The cost of the other affects is why Anger of the Gods see's more play its quick enough in enough match ups and hurts a specific deck dredge a lot, the other wraths in the format don't even crack into the top 50 of just non-creature spells.
Again on Nimble Obstructionist, I think it is just to expensive to ever really gain "value" out of. The biggest difference between it and something like Shadow of Doubt is the cost, shadow cost 2 and can always simply cycle. The beater side of Obstructionist is actually the least exciting part of it a 3/1 flyer with flash that nets you value every time its cast is already available and doesn't see play (clique) and I think it isn't seeing play for the same reasons the format is very quick and 3 mana for such a underwhelming card doesn't scream out to me as the 3/1 body attached to a vanilla creature doesn't scream out "beater" at all imo and if you are most often casting it for the body it is terrible. If the format ever moves back towards mid-range decks than the card becomes instantly playable, its just that in the current meta it seems to slow for anything its offering to see real play.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Yep. I'll admit I was off with harsh mentor. Seemed good in paper, but failed in practice. Just didnt hit enough things. Or it didnt deal enough damage for the few it hit. I do think it was a miss, but a better version of the ability could still be amazing.
Rhonas the Indomitable showing up still shows its power. I've played around a lot with the card and found that the most lacking thing about it is how alone it is in modern. It needs a 4/4 for 2 buddy to exist (thats good) outside of goyf. Then itd see a lot more play as the premiere 3 cmc green drop for green creature decks (zoo, stompy, various hate midrange decks.)
I mean, thats a 4 card combo, right? Sac outlet, way to undo persist counters, persist creature, and spider. Where as red cap is just 3 cards.
-This gives reanimtor a way to deal with graveyard hate since they can just start beating face with Hollow ones that they get off of their looting effects. This sounds great since Grixis reanimtor has NO WAY to beat a leyline of the void off of turn 0. I'm not confident on it seeing tons of play but that is worth mentioning hence why it got an honorable mention in my rating. Also you did say that it's bad because it dies to k-command without mentioning what removal it dodges which is very relevant. Being able to dodge fatal push and come down as a pesudo 1 mana 4/4 on turn 2 is something that only tasigur, the golden fang/gurmag angler can do which is interesting.
-Show me what statistic that anger of the gods is seeing more play than all the other wraths. The other wraths not seeing a ton a play is mainly because the decks that they go into are tier 2-3 in terms of power not because of the power level of the wraths themselves. Bontu's last reckoning has to be better than those cards to replace them hence why I asked that question. The only decks that I see Reckoning going into are 8 rack because it has issues hitting 4 mana, small pox because it plays so many planeswalkers that it doesn't mind taking a turn off and potentially tezzeret because mana rocks can help subsidize the cost.
-Have you played against a Vendilion Clique? 3/1 body on a flash creature can close out a game relatively fast since almost nothing in this format flies besides lingering souls. Nimble "always cycles" too since it's a cycling card. The best deck in the format is a "midrange" deck with a faster clock.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
If by "its power" you mean its ability to serve as one of multiple win conditions for an infinite mana combo while being found off of a spell that cheats it into play at instant speed... As a stand alone creature... not so much.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Isn't Through the Breach a card ? (some SB's have Quicksilver Amulet as well)
Also if you really want to you can keep Echoing Truth in the SB to bounce Leyline/RIP.
Hollow does nothing for this deck.
No i specifically said it dies to the worst mode on Kcommand which isn't a positive quality for a card that takes as much set up as this does. So do you think that Reanimator is wanting to dilute its main plan to get a vanilla 4/4? It would decrease the odds of them hitting goryo's + some fatty by 2 plan and simple and I don't think that a vanilla 4/4 that doesn't even trade with Tas Angler or even DS more often than not is that terribly exciting.
Grixis Shadow isn't a mid-range deck period. It is a aggro-control deck its at its best when it runs out a DS and or Tas/Angler in the early turns and wins by turn 4-5, it is resilient because it can grind if it has to but its primary goal is beat down aggro while striping protecting its early threats. So your just wrong on that one.
I have a play set of cliques and I haven't gotten a chance to make use of them in a year. Again the cost is the biggest thing holding it back, what deck currently is this looking like a slam dunk against? I don't think having the Stifle affect costed one less is a crazy thing to say, given that the affect is often costed at 2 anyways. IMO if your casting this in the current meta it is likely just a chump blocker to hope to keep you alive another turn so you can hope to draw a relevant card, and even then the only thing you can block profitably in against Grixis DS is snapcaster mage which isn't exactly best of trade offs given that they would have already gotten value out of the snapcaster and you essentially get to play a 3 mana very narrow potential for trading card.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-staples/modern/full/spells
here yah go, anger is the only one on the list even with the narrowing of the search to just non-creature. I don't think Bontu's has to be better than the others out right, it is simply under costed for the same affect which currently could make the difference.
Knightfall and Zoo have used the creature as well. Its totally not true. Playing a fair Rhonas on curve, so long as you can enable it is still plunty powerful
Djeru, With Eyes Open: If only Kiki-Jiki didn't exist and/or if only the removal walkers were better, Djeru would see play in the Kiki Chord-like CopyCat decks as a leggy way to find Saheeli Rai.
God-Pharaoh's Faithful: Stubborn Doran fans now have a 1-drop with relevant life gain (cast Doran and other black spells). I still like Disowned Ancestor more because he can trade with X/5's such as Reality Smasher by himself, though.
Saving Grace: A pretty nifty damage hoser card against Valakut/Scapeshift/Burn/etc., at least for Bogles. Fetch that Dryad Arbor and enchant it for one heck of a surprise. This is finally a reason to Open the Armory, IMO.
Steward of Solidarity: izzetmage is right--this DOES combo with Intruder Alarm. Unlike Thraben Doomsayer, it curves nicely into that enchantment, too. Actually, there might be a Knightfall-like deck in that idea...
Countervailing Winds: Supreme Will's brother for when you need both better combo protection and a poorer way to get your combo. My lower-curve UGr Scapeshift deck may be the only customer, though...
Riddleform: In some ways, this is a less demanding version of Myth Realized that's better early-game. In other ways, it may get fewer swings in, and it doesn't compare that favourably to Stormchaser Mage.
Spellweaver Eternal: In UR Tempo decks, this guy is going to hurt. It'll always get "damage" in thanks to Afflict, and the Prowess can make it deadly.
Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign: I don't know why I'm obsessed with finding a deck that can support at least 2 of him. No life gain hurts when I need a finisher I can stabilize with, and no Flash hurts, but the CA...I'm drooling at it...
Banewhip Punisher: So dang close to being my creature killer of choice in Melira Company. Unfortunately, it can't kill Scavenging Ooze unless the Ooze somehow hasn't eaten anything (thanks to +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters cancelling each other out), and it can't kill Linvala because it kills with an activated ability. Shucks, shucks, shucks...
Crash Through: Not bad if R/x Prowess decks still exist, especially since it doesn't target.
Beneath the Sands: Too bad it's a sorcery and it costs 3 mana--the Cycling option makes it great for Scapeshift otherwise, as I have a bad habit of flooding late-game.
Dunes of the Dead: I suppose it makes a bigger token than Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai, even though being nonlegendary arguably hurts it this time, IMO.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast prevents -1/-1 counters from going on your creatures, so no, it's not the new Melira No Vizier Company win con. Heck, I've seen lists with Blood Artist and Zulaport Cutthroat in the Spider slot.
Definitely. It also works great in Sultai Toolbox alongside Angler and the Banana King. As long as you can get at least 1 creature with 2 power on the board with Rhonas, he can attack in a pinch- not something terribly difficult in Modern. A few people I know have been getting good results with him in midrange Jund because of how dominant he is in creature vs creature matchups. Rhonas the Indomitable is plenty good in its own right.
That said, there are some good cards here. I think we'll see 3-5 cards be solid role-players in Modern. None will make the splash that Fatal Push did, but not all cards need to or should.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Yeah that's a card that caught my eye too.
Could get huge in the right deck. But are there enough good cycling cards to play with him? I'll have to check Gatherer to see
really? Looks like a bunch of 3-6c.c. mid-range stuff to me.
Took the thought right outta my head.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Well almost every set has like half the rares and mythic cards as EDH fodder. I was saying that the actual like potentially standard playable cards all just look like more mid-range creatures
Can't wait to grab some foil Manaliths!
Still not as good as Darksteel Ingot, not remotely close to Chromatic Lantern, and slower than Talismans and Signets.... but they will look SWEET in foil!
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Can't tell if serious. (scratches head)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Manalith is playable in what? Remember this is a thread in MODERN, not Commander/EDH.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Oh, I was totally only talking about Commander. Outside of Claim/Fame and maybe the exile land, I think the whole set is basically trash for Modern.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
We could make a list of cards that where dimed as unplayable until recently but I guess u would say something like "rogue deck" "noob deck" "why not play this instead" , etc...
Just to say lantern control was made up from "unplayable" cards.
Mono U Enginier combo ( or mono u afinity) is also a deck made up from mostly "unplayable" cards
Etc
Etc
Etc
Leave the man with his brews, no need to receber him that this is the modern not The EDH forum