Lightning Bolt has been considered the strongest removal spell in Modern since the beginning of the format. However, it is starting to seem like it isn't a particularly strong removal spell anymore. Out of the 15 decks in Modern that currently have a metagame share of at least 2 percent on MTGO, there are only 7 decks in which at least half of the creatures die to Bolt (Burn, Affinity, Bant Eldrazi, Merfolk, Storm, Abzan Company, and Jund). Bolt kills none of the creatures in BGx Death's Shadow, it kills nothing permanently in Dredge except for Narcomoeba, it kills only Noble Hierarch, Scavenging Ooze, and spirit tokens against Abzan, it kills only Snapcaster Mage against blue Death's Shadow decks, it only kills Walking Ballista and Matter Reshaper against Eldrazi Tron, it only kills Wurmcoil Engine tokens against WG Tron, it does nothing against Titanshift, and it does nothing against Ad Nauseum. In addition, the decks with at least 2% of the meta that Bolt is mostly just a Lava Spike against currently make up 37.57% of the metagame, while the decks that Bolt is strong against make up only 24.64% of the meta. Finally, Lightning Bolt is only the 5th-most played card in Modern and is less played that both Path to Exile and Fatal Push. So, is Lighting Bolt still the top removal spell in Modern, and if it is not, what does that mean for the format?
It isn't the best removal, the point is: it is more then just removal. Bolt is good because it is both removal and damge.
I know that. I am asking if the format has gotten to the point where Lightning Bolt being a burn spell doesn't outweigh it being unable to hit a large percentage of the creatures in the format, especially in less aggressive decks.
Well, what do the numbers say? I mean DSJ, Tron and Eldrazi variants are all running a critical mass of critters usually out of bolts range. My personal feelings on it are that it hasn't been the best "removal" spell for a while. A good number of decks have just been going over the top of it and since they can maintain a decent velocity and tempo doing it, there is little reason not to. Its versatility is what keeps it viable. How many path to exiles, fatal pushes, abrupt decays and dismembers to you have to string together to account for three damage to the face?
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Not at the moment, but don't sleep on it. Every card is susceptible to the context of the current meta, even the almighty bolt. But as we all know, it's the best at what it does and is incredibly versatile, so you still have to come up with good reasons not to include it in lists with red. There just happen to be more good reasons at the moment.
It isn't the best removal, the point is: it is more then just removal. Bolt is good because it is both removal and damge.
I know that. I am asking if the format has gotten to the point where Lightning Bolt being a burn spell doesn't outweigh it being unable to hit a large percentage of the creatures in the format, especially in less aggressive decks.
I think it has, it's been a threat>answer format for a long time now, and a large part of that was Bolt not being good enough. At this point, too much of the format is resistant to it, and Fatal Push is a valid replacement for it so fewer Bolts is definitely justified.
Bolt used to be the most played card in Modern by a considerable margin, but is now sitting back in 5th, behind Thoughtseize, Path, Push, and Inquisition. Given the meta is almost entirely big mana threats and things that don't die to Bolt, this makes a lot of sense.
It isn't the best removal, the point is: it is more then just removal. Bolt is good because it is both removal and damge.
I know that. I am asking if the format has gotten to the point where Lightning Bolt being a burn spell doesn't outweigh it being unable to hit a large percentage of the creatures in the format, especially in less aggressive decks.
I personally love lightning bolt as one of my favorite spells in magic, but i feel other cards currently outvaule it. Remember Bolt defined the modern format at a level no other card ever has imho. Players used to look at toughness to avoid being blown out and if it could not avoid dying to bolt ot was a card that could make up for it like lets say Mana dorks, goblin guides, snap caster, etc. Things like this were used. Bolt might not be the all mighty spell it once was, bit fatal push now basically removes a bit more efficiently for the things bolt killed while allowing things like siege Rhino to be killed without multiple cards.
Still if your playing any UR/x deck with 4 snapcaster mage you should be running the full playset of bolt. It all depends on your deck and meta you play in.
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Standard: No Time
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
Bolt also doesn't do well vs any decks that drop big pump spells in response. Bolt is great in Burn and decks that could use the the damage as a last damage.
It has its limitations like other cards. In situations like where Push isnt good vs Wurmcoil but at least Bolt can hit the face. Bolt has and will always have solid homes in this format but I agree that it's not relied on as much. Which is a good thing cause that means new cards.
On a side note the amount of Black one drops with Seize, Inquisition, Push and Dismember is annoying. Lol. Yes I know Dismember is technically a 3 drop but still gets used more as a 1 drop.
The fact that Fatal Push will kill almost anything thats played in Modern with revolt turned on is what pushes Bolt down to the 3rd best removal spell.
Bolt is still very strong in U/R/x decks that run it, because of snapcaster mage. with a bolt and snapcaster, your opponent has to actually watch their life total pretty carefully.
being at 9 life, and fetching a shock may get you killed.
being at 11 life, and fetch/shocking with no blocker/removal gets you killed.
those are still some pretty strong plays considering how many decks utilize their life as a resource in Modern.
Times are changing. A while ago Lightning Bolt and Tarmogoyf were once two of the top cards in the format. But thanks to Delve creatures, massive Eldrazis, and Death's Shadow, both are losing a lot of the relevance. Burn will always play bolt, and comboing it with Snapcaster Mage is still good, but not as good as it used to be.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
That's hilarious, considering wizards card design lately were are lucky this was an instant spell. I would like to see a lighting Bolt that does damage in -1-1 counters to creatures or regular damage to an opponent.
Lightning Bolt has been considered the strongest removal spell in Modern since the beginning of the format. However, it is starting to seem like it isn't a particularly strong removal spell anymore. Out of the 15 decks in Modern that currently have a metagame share of at least 2 percent on MTGO, there are only 7 decks in which at least half of the creatures die to Bolt (Burn, Affinity, Bant Eldrazi, Merfolk, Storm, Abzan Company, and Jund). Bolt kills none of the creatures in BGx Death's Shadow, it kills nothing permanently in Dredge except for Narcomoeba, it kills only Noble Hierarch, Scavenging Ooze, and spirit tokens against Abzan, it kills only Snapcaster Mage against blue Death's Shadow decks, it only kills Walking Ballista and Matter Reshaper against Eldrazi Tron, it only kills Wurmcoil Engine tokens against WG Tron, it does nothing against Titanshift, and it does nothing against Ad Nauseum. In addition, the decks with at least 2% of the meta that Bolt is mostly just a Lava Spike against currently make up 37.57% of the metagame, while the decks that Bolt is strong against make up only 24.64% of the meta. Finally, Lightning Bolt is only the 5th-most played card in Modern and is less played that both Path to Exile and Fatal Push. So, is Lighting Bolt still the top removal spell in Modern, and if it is not, what does that mean for the format?
There is a fallacy in the classification of Lightning Bolt. Bolt is not removal. It is burn, an incredibly efficient direct damage spell to lower your opponent life total, that sometimes acts as removal. That is the proper way to look at bolt, not as the assumption that it is removal first, and then sometimes burn.
That's hilarious, considering wizards card design lately were are lucky this was an instant spell. I would like to see a lighting Bolt that does damage in -1-1 counters to creatures or regular damage to an opponent.
Puncture Blast has its uses, mostly for taking out indestructible creatures and getting damage to stay.
That's hilarious, considering wizards card design lately were are lucky this was an instant spell. I would like to see a lighting Bolt that does damage in -1-1 counters to creatures or regular damage to an opponent.
Puncture Blast has its uses, mostly for taking out indestructible creatures and getting damage to stay.
Decks that play both black and red rather play push right now. If the meta shifts away from ds it should come back
Wouldn't black and red decks prefer Terminate? It can hit Reality Smasher, Primeval Titan, street wraith, Tasiguir, Gurmag Angler, Endbringer, etc, and push can't, plus there are a lot of creatures where push requires revolt to hit.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Decks that play both black and red rather play push right now. If the meta shifts away from ds it should come back
Wouldn't black and red decks prefer Terminate? It can hit Reality Smasher, Primeval Titan, street wraith, Tasiguir, Gurmag Angler, Endbringer, etc, and push can't, plus there are a lot of creatures where push requires revolt to hit.
Push is cheaper and easier to cast. If a deck can play both, they will almost always play more Push than Terminate. DS builds play 3-4 Push and 1-2 Terminate.
Bolt is still stupidly powerful. Does it miss a lot of stuff now that Path and Push hit, and the cards being used now are the beaters that bolt doesnt it.
So clearly, its power isnt any lower, just its usefulness.
But like said before. Bolt you can kill you, path and push cant. Bolt Snap Bolt is still really strong. The deck that uses bolt snap bolts are just less widly used. Also red aggro as a hole, stuff like naya, or gr, hasnt had many good cards added to it in a long time, so the decks where bolt funtions as an early game removal late game reach dont really have much power in them.
All the colors that got pushed recently are green, black, white mid game stuff.
That's hilarious, considering wizards card design lately were are lucky this was an instant spell. I would like to see a lighting Bolt that does damage in -1-1 counters to creatures or regular damage to an opponent.
Puncture Blast has its uses, mostly for taking out indestructible creatures and getting damage to stay.
That's hilarious, considering wizards card design lately were are lucky this was an instant spell. I would like to see a lighting Bolt that does damage in -1-1 counters to creatures or regular damage to an opponent.
Puncture Blast has its uses, mostly for taking out indestructible creatures and getting damage to stay.
That's hilarious, considering wizards card design lately were are lucky this was an instant spell. I would like to see a lighting Bolt that does damage in -1-1 counters to creatures or regular damage to an opponent.
Puncture Blast has its uses, mostly for taking out indestructible creatures and getting damage to stay.
With Lightning bolt losing viability would that necessarily be a bad thing.
Burn would be alot more oppressive if it had literally another bolt. But no. Just because a card lost some viability doenst mean it lost power. Bolt is is still powerful, and when the meta shifts, like it does, it will shift as well. Bolt is still played more widely over push in legacy for example.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I know that. I am asking if the format has gotten to the point where Lightning Bolt being a burn spell doesn't outweigh it being unable to hit a large percentage of the creatures in the format, especially in less aggressive decks.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I think it has, it's been a threat>answer format for a long time now, and a large part of that was Bolt not being good enough. At this point, too much of the format is resistant to it, and Fatal Push is a valid replacement for it so fewer Bolts is definitely justified.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
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I personally love lightning bolt as one of my favorite spells in magic, but i feel other cards currently outvaule it. Remember Bolt defined the modern format at a level no other card ever has imho. Players used to look at toughness to avoid being blown out and if it could not avoid dying to bolt ot was a card that could make up for it like lets say Mana dorks, goblin guides, snap caster, etc. Things like this were used. Bolt might not be the all mighty spell it once was, bit fatal push now basically removes a bit more efficiently for the things bolt killed while allowing things like siege Rhino to be killed without multiple cards.
Still if your playing any UR/x deck with 4 snapcaster mage you should be running the full playset of bolt. It all depends on your deck and meta you play in.
Modern: Jund Midrange BRG
Legacy: Shardless Bug BUG
It has its limitations like other cards. In situations like where Push isnt good vs Wurmcoil but at least Bolt can hit the face. Bolt has and will always have solid homes in this format but I agree that it's not relied on as much. Which is a good thing cause that means new cards.
On a side note the amount of Black one drops with Seize, Inquisition, Push and Dismember is annoying. Lol. Yes I know Dismember is technically a 3 drop but still gets used more as a 1 drop.
Bolt is still very strong in U/R/x decks that run it, because of snapcaster mage. with a bolt and snapcaster, your opponent has to actually watch their life total pretty carefully.
being at 9 life, and fetching a shock may get you killed.
being at 11 life, and fetch/shocking with no blocker/removal gets you killed.
those are still some pretty strong plays considering how many decks utilize their life as a resource in Modern.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Straight power.
There is a fallacy in the classification of Lightning Bolt. Bolt is not removal. It is burn, an incredibly efficient direct damage spell to lower your opponent life total, that sometimes acts as removal. That is the proper way to look at bolt, not as the assumption that it is removal first, and then sometimes burn.
Puncture Blast has its uses, mostly for taking out indestructible creatures and getting damage to stay.
Wouldn't black and red decks prefer Terminate? It can hit Reality Smasher, Primeval Titan, street wraith, Tasiguir, Gurmag Angler, Endbringer, etc, and push can't, plus there are a lot of creatures where push requires revolt to hit.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Push is cheaper and easier to cast. If a deck can play both, they will almost always play more Push than Terminate. DS builds play 3-4 Push and 1-2 Terminate.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
So clearly, its power isnt any lower, just its usefulness.
But like said before. Bolt you can kill you, path and push cant. Bolt Snap Bolt is still really strong. The deck that uses bolt snap bolts are just less widly used. Also red aggro as a hole, stuff like naya, or gr, hasnt had many good cards added to it in a long time, so the decks where bolt funtions as an early game removal late game reach dont really have much power in them.
All the colors that got pushed recently are green, black, white mid game stuff.
It would be stronger than Lightning Bolt at 1cmc.
Burn would be alot more oppressive if it had literally another bolt. But no. Just because a card lost some viability doenst mean it lost power. Bolt is is still powerful, and when the meta shifts, like it does, it will shift as well. Bolt is still played more widely over push in legacy for example.