I don't think Censor is that bad. It's largely a hard counter on T2 and T3, wih hard counter potential on T4 and even later. More importantly, cycling U is awesome. It means the card is never quite dead and lets you cycle it out as early as T1 if it's totally matchup inappropriate. I expect many blue controlling decks will play 2+ copies.
Agreed. Cycling has not been in a set as a main theme for too long, I think people are not sure how to assess them properly. Especially the ones where you get an effect when you cycle. Same with the aftermath cards; I think they are quite underestimated. The problem is that some are genuinely bad and some are hidden gems. The skill-level ceiling of this set is quite high.
Also, all this "options" and "incremental card advantage" has more potential with control/midrange than aggro/combo.
Love this guy, going to be extremely playable in Sultai or Temur midrange shells. The turn after he comes down he can +2/0 your Nacatl to turn himself on and swing.
Love this guy, going to be extremely playable in Sultai or Temur midrange shells. The turn after he comes down he can +2/0 your Nacatl to turn himself on and swing.
Goyf can turn this guy on without any buffing alot of the time anyway. It's a good card, but at 3 mana it may not be enough value. In Midrange mirrors or as a green top end it seems great though.
-Censor: This card is one of the best counterspells that we have gotten in awhile. Having the option of pitching this for only U means that this card is useful in every phase in the game. While paying 1U for a force spike isn't the greatest, the versatility of this card always having a use is. Being able to cycle this then get it back with snapcaster mage later sounds really good. It also helps blue players get to cryptic command mana. I expect this card to play a lot better than it reads in modern. It wouldn't surprise me if this becomes a staple in blue decks based on the power level.
-Curator of Mysteries: There is a lot to love about this card. 4/4 flyer for 4 mana is already a decent body but the ability to cycle this for only U is crazy. This enables: delve creatures, allows you to keep hands that were not good in the first place, feeds goyf, thins your deck, you can get this back with Liliana, the last hope/kolaghan's command in the late game for it to turn into a finisher, etc. For me this card reads as "Instant draw a card" for most of the game with the option of turning into a 4/4 beater in the late game. Plus the sphinx plays well with other cycling cards, plays into liliana of the veil very will when it's out, doesn't punish you for running a playset and it's not legendary. Sleeper card of the set in my opinion.
-Archfiend of Ifnir: Similar to the sphinx there is a lot to like about this card. The biggest thing to like about this card is that it already has a home in living end decks as a way for that deck to deal with lingering souls/other small creatures that chump block living end creatures. Cycling for 2 colorless is also nice because the archfiend doesn't ask you to commit to any color for living end. Solid new card for them.
Harsh Mentor: While this card reads REALLY GOOD, I actually don't think this will see tons of play in the maindeck of anydeck. Rather I believe that we will see Death and taxes make the red splash for Harsh mentor, lightning bolt, magus of the moon. I don't believe that modern burn/delver want Harsh mentor. A stronger card for legacy/vintage but it will find a home here.
Samut, Voice of Dissent: This card seems almost tailor made for Scapshift decks due to the immense power of giving a primeval titan haste. The haste effect being stapled onto a creature with so many abilities seems very good. Seems really good for them as a 1-2 of.
Cards that might see play:
-Bone Picker: I like how wizards just casually snuck this in the full spoiler preview. They did the same thing with Tireless tracker. This card is very powerful since it's triggered off of any creature dying. Still, that can be hard to trigger as reliably as we would want. A 3/2 flying deathtouch for a B is crazy but I'll be waiting in the wings for someone to break this.
-Scarb Feast: Not the sexist card out there but the ability to cycle this away when you need to is really nice when it's stapled to a hate card. This is potential maindeckable hate.
-Hieroglyphic illumination: Similar to censor, the fact that this only costs one U to cycle is really good. Using Snapcaster mage late game to get full value off of this seems nice. 3U is a steep price for regular cost which leaves me hesitant to say that this will see guaranteed play.
-Gideon of the Trials: One of the flashiest cards of the set that will do more in modern/eternal formats than in standard. His emblem can just hose specific strategies by itself, he is a 4/4 indestructible creature, and he can turn off damage from a permanent. There is a lot to like here but his 1WW casting cost does sting and there doesn't seem to be a deck that wants him right now. It's worth noting that he seems good in the As fortold deck that I talk about. He isn't insanely strong but his swiss army knife abilities are something to look out for.
-Soul-Scar Mage: A very powerful ability but I'm not sure what deck wants this card. It's worth noting that this can swing into huge creatures and have lightning bolt as backup so it can either trade or deal damage. I don't know where this card fits in modern. Maybe the old UR prowess deck? Will this make lightning bolt great again?
-Rhonas, the Indomitable: Powerful effect and this god is a 3 drop which means that he fits into Collected company strategies which allows him to be able to attack easier. Goyf/angler/tasigur/knight/etc mean that he shouldn't have that much of an issue with being able to attack. Add that plus his pump option and that means that it's relatively easy to turn this guy on. Will he workout?
-Cast Out: A flash oblivion ring that can be cycled is at least worth looking at. It's notable that it dodges abrupt decay since it cost 4 and you can cycle it for only w.
Cards that are almost there but miss the mark:
-Glorious end: A hilarious card that will probably be in some Saffron Olive brew, but this doesn't do enough to get there in modern. It requires you to either go off the turn you cast this, play some bad card that negates you losing the game, or use hive mind to make your opponent lose.
-Plague Belcher: One hell of a powerful card for the mana you are paying. Sadly it's gated by the fact that you need something to put the counters on. It seems like it requires too much setup to get there.
-Dispossess: Too speicifc to do anything in modern. It's worth keeping in mind in case some random artifact gets printed that black can't deal with.
-Shadowstorm Vizier: Unplayable in modern but man does this have beautiful art.
-Devoted Crop-Mate: While this ability is powerful, it takes too much effort to make it happen. here is no reason to run this when renegade rallier exists.
-Harvest season: This card simply requires too much setup to get the rewards taht it's promises to harvest.
-Commit/memory: This card almost hits the mark but the aftermath part of the card is useless for modern. It's cute with Torrential gearhulk but that's it.
-Pull from Tomorrow: This card has a lot of hype but it's pretty bad when you start to evaluate how much card advantage that it gives. You break even at card advantage at X=2. You don't get ahead in card advantage until you have spent 5 plus mana on this card. At this point why even play this card when sphinx's revelation/ancestral vision/painful truths/think twice/esper charm, etc. exist?
-Glorybringer: Similar to Channeler Initiate, I predict this card to be a standard all star but it will be hard for this dragon to see play here. It faces stiff competition at the 5 spot as other dragons outclass it in skred/land destruction. The flame slash ability is nice but there are very few cards that untap creatures that see play in modern. Much less the decks that want this creature.
-Channeler Initiate: This card will probably be a staple in standard due to the versatility of being a birds of paradise/small beatstick. However in modern this creatures asks a lot in comparison to other creatures.
-failure/comply: I like the idea of making it so your opponent can't cast the same card for two turns but this feels slow. Weaker than reflector mage which doesn't really see play in modern.
-Manglehorn: Great sideboard hate cards and Chord of calling target but it's kinda slow to deal with affinity.
-Nissa, Steward of Elements: One of the most interesting planeswalker designs that we have seen yet. Sadly she can't protect herself and needs a lot of mana to do work which isn't where you want to be in this format.
-Kefnet the Mindful: While paying 2U for a 5/5 indestructible flyer is a really good rate this card has many hurdles to get there. The biggest hurdle that sees a lot of play in modern is liliana of the veil as she will make this card feel real bad to play. To make matters harder for our bird friend discards spells are heavily played in death shadow decks/abzan/traditional jund which round out roughly 25% of the format. (Inquisition of Kozilek, thought seize, collective brutality.). Even if you some how get past all of that path to exile is still a heavily played card.
-Hazoret the Fervent: Probably the most playable of the gods that have been spoiled this far in modern as the Pervert can be top decked and deal 5 hasty damage to the face as an indestructible creature. It also doesn't ask a lot of the player as getting down to 1 card isn't tough with LOTV and brutality being in the format. Still 3R for this ability isn't a great rate and path to exile is heavily played in the format for the hoops that this card makes you jump through. Close but no cigar.
Draw a card > scry 2. That's like the difference between Index/Mystic Speculation and a cantrip. When Probe got banned some people said "oh just play Surgical Extraction, you still get to see what's in your opponent's hand", now look how well that turned out. There's nothing quite like having your spell replace itself.
The discard on Pull from Tomorrow kills it. Some benchmarks: Glimmer of Genius: 4 mana, scry 2, draw 2 Jace's Ingenuity: 5 mana, draw 3 Dragonlord's Prerogative: 6 mana, draw 4
Pull leaves you 1 card down compared to all of the above. Even compared to Blue Sun's Zenith, the rate on Pull is the same: x mana for a net x-3 cards. Stick to the staple control draw spell.
I think you're forgetting that we're playing a format that has quite a few GY shenanigans. The discard clause isn't even a downside if you're chucking Lingering Souls or a useless land which you can then use to power out a Tasigur/Angler after you untap. In a deck that can make use of the discard for gas (like grixis control) then this is clearly better than BSZ.
Also if you've played SR control before, how often were you casting it for 4 mana? It's not a 4 mana cast to bridge the gap in mid game, its a 6+ mana cast that puts you steadily ahead once the game is in the later stages (but can also be used for 4 mana or 3 mana if you're in a situation where you have to do that)
Essentially it's a slightly worse Sphinx's Revelation that can be played in 3 or 4 color draw-go, which I think is powerful enough to see some play.
-Gideon of the Trials: One of the flashiest cards of the set that will do more in modern/eternal formats than in standard. His emblem can just hose specific strategies by itself, he is a 4/4 indestructible creature, and he can turn off damage from a permanent. There is a lot to like here but his 1WW casting cost does sting and there doesn't seem to be a deck that wants him right now. It's worth noting that he seems good in the As fortold deck that I talk about. He isn't insanely strong but his swiss army knife abilities are something to look out for.
i cant believe you puted him in ''might see play'' i mean did you already forgot about eldrazi winter and how emeria, the sky ruin and sun titan were doing great against them? hes a 4 of in the deck and i believe its all we needed to get this deck to rise to type 1 or at least type 2 with a little tweaking here and there.
-Gideon of the Trials: One of the flashiest cards of the set that will do more in modern/eternal formats than in standard. His emblem can just hose specific strategies by itself, he is a 4/4 indestructible creature, and he can turn off damage from a permanent. There is a lot to like here but his 1WW casting cost does sting and there doesn't seem to be a deck that wants him right now. It's worth noting that he seems good in the As fortold deck that I talk about. He isn't insanely strong but his swiss army knife abilities are something to look out for.
i cant believe you puted him in ''might see play'' i mean did you already forgot about eldrazi winter and how emeria, the sky ruin and sun titan were doing great against them? hes a 4 of in the deck and i believe its all we needed to get this deck to rise to type 1 or at least type 2 with a little tweaking here and there.
he also looks really great in death and taxes, wanna kill my gideon? ill just flickerwisp it
besides maelstrom pulse and abrupt decay there isnt much removal that gets rid of him that are played right now.
the only non damage one i can think of is detention sphere and it doesnt really see much play.
I'm not that impressed by him. Sun titan costs 6 mana to cast and if you cast sun titan you are probably already winning anyhow so I don't care about that synergy. Most of the things that you name that are good about him are good on permanents that are arguably better than him. Emeria is also a mediocre deck that hasn't put up results in ages because it's slow and not that good into this new meta. Gideon dies to path if he attacks, he is bad against more than one creature, inquisition makes you discard him, etc. He also isn't great when you are behind where as: liliana/nahiri/chandra/ugin/karn/gideon ally can get you back in a game. He hoses combo decks which is nice and he seems good for ad naus since they can just cast ad naus when his emblem is out. At the end of the day the question in my book is: is he better than kitchen finks? They both occupy the same spot on the curve but finks is a more impactful card for your strategy.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
No.
Cycle means "discard a card" + " draw a card".
This is incorrect, assuming the question is about cycling something when Curator is on board and not about cycling Curator. Abilities triggering from cycling resolve before the card draw from cycling. You activate a cycling ability (paying costs), Curator triggers, and the scry 1 goes on the stack above the cycle.
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No.
Cycle means "discard a card" + " draw a card".
This is incorrect, assuming the question is about cycling something when Curator is on board and not about cycling Curator. Abilities triggering from cycling resolve before the card draw from cycling. You activate a cycling ability (paying costs), Curator triggers, and the scry 1 goes on the stack above the cycle.
My understanding is Curator trigger ability(Scry 1) will trigger when you do the cycle (cycle a card other than Curator for sure), which means when you complete the whole cycle action(discard a cycleable card and draw a card).
Therefore, yoh cannot put Curator trigger ability above the cycle on the stack.
My understanding is Curator trigger ability(Scry 1) will trigger when you do the cycle (cycle a card other than Curator for sure), which means when you complete the whole cycle action(discard a cycleable card and draw a card).
Therefore, yoh cannot put Curator trigger ability above the cycle on the stack.
Then your understanding is incorrect. This is all well defined by the rules. Cycling is an activated ability. When you activate it, you pay costs and put it on the stack (CR 602.2). This causes Curator to trigger. Triggered abilities go on the stack the next time a player would get priority (CR 603.3). Objects on the stack resolve when each player has passed priority in succession (CR 405.5), which necessarily happens after any triggered abilities are placed on the stack. All of that means that Curator's scry 1 trigger always ends up on the stack above the card draw from cycling, resolving first.
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No.
Cycle means "discard a card" + " draw a card".
This is incorrect, assuming the question is about cycling something when Curator is on board and not about cycling Curator. Abilities triggering from cycling resolve before the card draw from cycling. You activate a cycling ability (paying costs), Curator triggers, and the scry 1 goes on the stack above the cycle.
I meant when Curator is in play, yes. So when you cycle another card you get to scry 1, then cycle happens?
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
No.
Cycle means "discard a card" + " draw a card".
This is incorrect, assuming the question is about cycling something when Curator is on board and not about cycling Curator. Abilities triggering from cycling resolve before the card draw from cycling. You activate a cycling ability (paying costs), Curator triggers, and the scry 1 goes on the stack above the cycle.
I meant when Curator is in play, yes. So when you cycle another card you get to scry 1, then cycle happens?
According to Shefet Monitor, yes--you activate the Cycling ability by paying the cost and discarding the card, then the Curator/Shefet trigger goes on top, then that trigger resolves, then you draw the card from Cycling.
On a more relevant note, how relevant do you all think Harsh Mentor will be in Modern? He's being ballyhooed in the Rumor Mill, but part of me can't shake the feeling that several Modern decks can easily shrug off the damage (even to fetch cracks), such as Burn, Merfolk on a mediocre day, and Bant Eldrazi living the Thought-Knot Seer-Reality Smasher not-quite-dream...
My understanding is Curator trigger ability(Scry 1) will trigger when you do the cycle (cycle a card other than Curator for sure), which means when you complete the whole cycle action(discard a cycleable card and draw a card).
Therefore, yoh cannot put Curator trigger ability above the cycle on the stack.
Then your understanding is incorrect. This is all well defined by the rules. Cycling is an activated ability. When you activate it, you pay costs and put it on the stack (CR 602.2). This causes Curator to trigger. Triggered abilities go on the stack the next time a player would get priority (CR 603.3). Objects on the stack resolve when each player has passed priority in succession (CR 405.5), which necessarily happens after any triggered abilities are placed on the stack. All of that means that Curator's scry 1 trigger always ends up on the stack above the card draw from cycling, resolving first.
My question is simple:
If a trigger ability where the trigger condition is cycle, does it mean that when cycle is put in the stack, or mean that when cycle is resolved?
My understanding is Curator trigger ability(Scry 1) will trigger when you do the cycle (cycle a card other than Curator for sure), which means when you complete the whole cycle action(discard a cycleable card and draw a card).
Therefore, yoh cannot put Curator trigger ability above the cycle on the stack.
Then your understanding is incorrect. This is all well defined by the rules. Cycling is an activated ability. When you activate it, you pay costs and put it on the stack (CR 602.2). This causes Curator to trigger. Triggered abilities go on the stack the next time a player would get priority (CR 603.3). Objects on the stack resolve when each player has passed priority in succession (CR 405.5), which necessarily happens after any triggered abilities are placed on the stack. All of that means that Curator's scry 1 trigger always ends up on the stack above the card draw from cycling, resolving first.
My question is simple:
If a trigger ability where the trigger condition is cycle, does it mean that when cycle is put in the stack, or mean that when cycle is resolved?
This is triggers 101. When you pay the cycle cost, the cycling ability goes on the stack. This triggers Sphinx, and then Sphinx's trigger goes on the stack above the cycling. It will resolve first. After you scry, the cycle resolves. This is exactly how it worked in old Rift and Slide formats and it's how it works today.
Love this guy, going to be extremely playable in Sultai or Temur midrange shells. The turn after he comes down he can +2/0 your Nacatl to turn himself on and swing.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
If you are in red, you probably like passive one sided damage... So lets see how many things it hits. I'm just going to go through all the decks and name cards main deck:
Thats hitting 141 cases of cards over 30 decks. An average of 4.7 different cards per deck.
And thats not saying how many cards that is. If it hits 5 cards, and of those 5 its, 3 different fetch lands, ooze and raging ravine... Thats 15 cards. To be clear, thats 1/4th of their deck that its hitting.
There is a TON of passive power on this guy. He just sits there, not damaging you, easily splashable, at 2 mana, just burning them if they dont get rid of him... Often having to fetch TO kill him. There isnt a SINGLE deck in the meta he doesnt at least hit one card name on, and the math shows... hes often hitting 4-5 (12-15 cards) on average.
If you are in red, you probably like passive one sided damage... So lets see how many things it hits. I'm just going to go through all the decks and name cards main deck:
While I agree it's a really good card, do note that it only hits for activations on the battlefield, so it's not going to hit street wraith cycling or dredge activations from the yard.
EDIT: Or Ghor-Clan Rampager Bloodrush, for that matter
I've been looking at Harsh Mentor, and this card is broken. as in 'this card is going to be banned' broken. this card is not a safety valve, this is more ridiculous that DRS ever was. I have no idea what Wizards could have been thinking. It didn't become clear to me until i looked at the really excellent breakdown Lantern did. It's not about how many cards it hits in all decks combined, it's where it will see play, and WHAT it hits. just for a moment, imagine this in Jund. it could be MB, but let's just say SB. this kills Tron, this card makes Jund the heavy favorite against Tron, this card makes Jund the best deck with no questions asked. it is not even about raw power, it is about what it does to which matchups. if i am missing something please tell me, but this sure looks to me like the most blatantly catastrophic card in years and years. Delve and DRS between them have nothing on the bad feeling I am getting
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Harsh Mentor only stops abilities from the battlefield. It's like Damping Matrix, but they made it clearer since cycling is also in this set.
So how good is it? On one hand, we have Tunnel Ignus, which hates on a cycle of cards played in nearly every deck, but sees zero play. On the other, we have Eidolon of the Great Revel, a Burn staple which damages continuously (even yourself). Eidolon incidentally hoses all those "play 20 spells in one turn" decks like Storm, Cheerios, Eggs, etc. Mentor hoses Affinity's payoff cards, and the Melira combo (sort of - they can get still infinite bolster triggers with Anafenza, but not infinite life).
If we take Boros Charm as our benchmark for 2-mana burn, Harsh Mentor must trigger an average of twice per game in order to pull its weight. Is that going to happen often? If you catch a single fetchland activation and attack once with it, it's already done its job, but there are also all those times where you topdeck it while facing lethal, or play it and it gets killed without anything to show for it (Eidolon would have hit your opponent for 2).
Overall I think it's closer to Tunnel Ignus than Eidolon of the Great Revel. I can't see it replacing Eidolon, or any other 2-drop in Burn. There may be a non-Burn deck that wants it, maybe 5-color Humans, so you can play the disruptive duo of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Harsh Mentor, and have them pick up Thalia' Lieutenant bonuses.
Harsh Mentor only stops abilities from the battlefield. It's like Damping Matrix, but they made it clearer since cycling is also in this set.
So how good is it? On one hand, we have Tunnel Ignus, which hates on a cycle of cards played in nearly every deck, but sees zero play. On the other, we have Eidolon of the Great Revel, a Burn staple which damages continuously (even yourself). Eidolon incidentally hoses all those "play 20 spells in one turn" decks like Storm, Cheerios, Eggs, etc. Mentor hoses Affinity's payoff cards, and the Melira combo (sort of - they can get still infinite bolster triggers with Anafenza, but not infinite life).
If we take Boros Charm as our benchmark for 2-mana burn, Harsh Mentor must trigger an average of twice per game in order to pull its weight. Is that going to happen often? If you catch a single fetchland activation and attack once with it, it's already done its job, but there are also all those times where you topdeck it while facing lethal, or play it and it gets killed without anything to show for it (Eidolon would have hit your opponent for 2).
Overall I think it's closer to Tunnel Ignus than Eidolon of the Great Revel. I can't see it replacing Eidolon, or any other 2-drop in Burn. There may be a non-Burn deck that wants it, maybe 5-color Humans, so you can play the disruptive duo of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Harsh Mentor, and have them pick up Thalia' Lieutenant bonuses.
I rarely disagree with you, but I will on this one. Dark confidant, tarmo both have the same "Needs to not die" clause, but they manage to still see play. Tunnel is a 2/1, and does 1 extra damage on the fetch. But he doesnt also hurt several more cards by existing. He only hits one group of cards, the same this does but this also hits swaths more.
And as far as Eidolon goes, yeah, eidolon is more powerful in a nut shell... but isnt splashed easily (actually, at all) while this is. Also this doesnt hurt you, which actually really really matters here. Eidolon needs a very certain type of deck to work. This doesnt. All it does is punish your opponents, and hits off on average (thanks reddit) 15-25% of the cards used across modern decks.
Burn, and sometimes zoo wants eidolon. ALOT more decks can viably use this.
Agreed. Cycling has not been in a set as a main theme for too long, I think people are not sure how to assess them properly. Especially the ones where you get an effect when you cycle. Same with the aftermath cards; I think they are quite underestimated. The problem is that some are genuinely bad and some are hidden gems. The skill-level ceiling of this set is quite high.
Also, all this "options" and "incremental card advantage" has more potential with control/midrange than aggro/combo.
Love this guy, going to be extremely playable in Sultai or Temur midrange shells. The turn after he comes down he can +2/0 your Nacatl to turn himself on and swing.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Goyf can turn this guy on without any buffing alot of the time anyway. It's a good card, but at 3 mana it may not be enough value. In Midrange mirrors or as a green top end it seems great though.
Cards that will see play:
-Scattered Groves, Irrigated Farmland, Fetid Pools, Canyon Slough, Sheltered Thicket(Bicycle lands): Great in numerous strategies and if you are just flooding. Will see play in many midrange decks just for the cantrip ability, life from the loam decks, assault formation, etc. Amazing cards that may change many modern mana bases.
-Censor: This card is one of the best counterspells that we have gotten in awhile. Having the option of pitching this for only U means that this card is useful in every phase in the game. While paying 1U for a force spike isn't the greatest, the versatility of this card always having a use is. Being able to cycle this then get it back with snapcaster mage later sounds really good. It also helps blue players get to cryptic command mana. I expect this card to play a lot better than it reads in modern. It wouldn't surprise me if this becomes a staple in blue decks based on the power level.
-Curator of Mysteries: There is a lot to love about this card. 4/4 flyer for 4 mana is already a decent body but the ability to cycle this for only U is crazy. This enables: delve creatures, allows you to keep hands that were not good in the first place, feeds goyf, thins your deck, you can get this back with Liliana, the last hope/kolaghan's command in the late game for it to turn into a finisher, etc. For me this card reads as "Instant draw a card" for most of the game with the option of turning into a 4/4 beater in the late game. Plus the sphinx plays well with other cycling cards, plays into liliana of the veil very will when it's out, doesn't punish you for running a playset and it's not legendary. Sleeper card of the set in my opinion.
-Archfiend of Ifnir: Similar to the sphinx there is a lot to like about this card. The biggest thing to like about this card is that it already has a home in living end decks as a way for that deck to deal with lingering souls/other small creatures that chump block living end creatures. Cycling for 2 colorless is also nice because the archfiend doesn't ask you to commit to any color for living end. Solid new card for them.
Harsh Mentor: While this card reads REALLY GOOD, I actually don't think this will see tons of play in the maindeck of anydeck. Rather I believe that we will see Death and taxes make the red splash for Harsh mentor, lightning bolt, magus of the moon. I don't believe that modern burn/delver want Harsh mentor. A stronger card for legacy/vintage but it will find a home here.
Samut, Voice of Dissent: This card seems almost tailor made for Scapshift decks due to the immense power of giving a primeval titan haste. The haste effect being stapled onto a creature with so many abilities seems very good. Seems really good for them as a 1-2 of.
Cards that might see play:
-Bone Picker: I like how wizards just casually snuck this in the full spoiler preview. They did the same thing with Tireless tracker. This card is very powerful since it's triggered off of any creature dying. Still, that can be hard to trigger as reliably as we would want. A 3/2 flying deathtouch for a B is crazy but I'll be waiting in the wings for someone to break this.
-Scarb Feast: Not the sexist card out there but the ability to cycle this away when you need to is really nice when it's stapled to a hate card. This is potential maindeckable hate.
-Hieroglyphic illumination: Similar to censor, the fact that this only costs one U to cycle is really good. Using Snapcaster mage late game to get full value off of this seems nice. 3U is a steep price for regular cost which leaves me hesitant to say that this will see guaranteed play.
-Cryptic Serpent in Grixis decks looking for another beater. It's 6/5 body makes this attractive because he can trade/outrade many creatures in the format. Plus he only needs 5 instants/soceries in your graveyard to cost UU and he gets a discount for every instant/sorcery so it's not embarrassing to cast this for 1UU. Also makes me want to brew with bedlam reveler again. Likes faithless looting, censor, thought scour, izzet charm, Jace, vryn's prodigy,collective brutality, liliana of the veil and liliana, the last hope. I'm very excited for this card.
-As Foretold in UW decks with Restore balance/Ancestral vision. That deck will also need Flagstones of Trokair to recover from the restore balance. There is a lot to like about this deck but it needs tooling.
-Gideon of the Trials: One of the flashiest cards of the set that will do more in modern/eternal formats than in standard. His emblem can just hose specific strategies by itself, he is a 4/4 indestructible creature, and he can turn off damage from a permanent. There is a lot to like here but his 1WW casting cost does sting and there doesn't seem to be a deck that wants him right now. It's worth noting that he seems good in the As fortold deck that I talk about. He isn't insanely strong but his swiss army knife abilities are something to look out for.
-Drake Haven: One of the reasons to run a cycling heavy deck. Drake haven already has cards that it wants (Scattered Groves, Irrigated Farmland, Fetid Pools, Canyon Slough, Sheltered Thicket, Censor, Archfiend of Ifnir, Curator of Mysteries.) and we haven't even seen all the cycling cards yet. It may not get there because this is bad in multiplies, it needs mana to do anything, and it's slow. It does give living end decks an alternate wincon through graveyard hate which is why I think this might see play.
-Soul-Scar Mage: A very powerful ability but I'm not sure what deck wants this card. It's worth noting that this can swing into huge creatures and have lightning bolt as backup so it can either trade or deal damage. I don't know where this card fits in modern. Maybe the old UR prowess deck? Will this make lightning bolt great again?
-Rhonas, the Indomitable: Powerful effect and this god is a 3 drop which means that he fits into Collected company strategies which allows him to be able to attack easier. Goyf/angler/tasigur/knight/etc mean that he shouldn't have that much of an issue with being able to attack. Add that plus his pump option and that means that it's relatively easy to turn this guy on. Will he workout?
-Cast Out: A flash oblivion ring that can be cycled is at least worth looking at. It's notable that it dodges abrupt decay since it cost 4 and you can cycle it for only w.
Cards that are almost there but miss the mark:
-Glorious end: A hilarious card that will probably be in some Saffron Olive brew, but this doesn't do enough to get there in modern. It requires you to either go off the turn you cast this, play some bad card that negates you losing the game, or use hive mind to make your opponent lose.
-Plague Belcher: One hell of a powerful card for the mana you are paying. Sadly it's gated by the fact that you need something to put the counters on. It seems like it requires too much setup to get there.
-Dispossess: Too speicifc to do anything in modern. It's worth keeping in mind in case some random artifact gets printed that black can't deal with.
-Shadowstorm Vizier: Unplayable in modern but man does this have beautiful art.
-Devoted Crop-Mate: While this ability is powerful, it takes too much effort to make it happen. here is no reason to run this when renegade rallier exists.
-Vizier of Remedies: Melira, Sylvok Outcast 8-12. The problem is that Melira, Sylvok Outcast gives that deck resistance to infect creatures and Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit bolsters creatures for mini beatdowns. Vizier gets the infinite combo going but that's it. All Vizier does is just be a budget melira.
-Harvest season: This card simply requires too much setup to get the rewards taht it's promises to harvest.
-Commit/memory: This card almost hits the mark but the aftermath part of the card is useless for modern. It's cute with Torrential gearhulk but that's it.
-Pull from Tomorrow: This card has a lot of hype but it's pretty bad when you start to evaluate how much card advantage that it gives. You break even at card advantage at X=2. You don't get ahead in card advantage until you have spent 5 plus mana on this card. At this point why even play this card when sphinx's revelation/ancestral vision/painful truths/think twice/esper charm, etc. exist?
-Renewed Faith: Cycling this to gain 2 life is cute but it's worse than Blessed alliance in many ways.
-Glorybringer: Similar to Channeler Initiate, I predict this card to be a standard all star but it will be hard for this dragon to see play here. It faces stiff competition at the 5 spot as other dragons outclass it in skred/land destruction. The flame slash ability is nice but there are very few cards that untap creatures that see play in modern. Much less the decks that want this creature.
-Channeler Initiate: This card will probably be a staple in standard due to the versatility of being a birds of paradise/small beatstick. However in modern this creatures asks a lot in comparison to other creatures.
-failure/comply: I like the idea of making it so your opponent can't cast the same card for two turns but this feels slow. Weaker than reflector mage which doesn't really see play in modern.
-Manglehorn: Great sideboard hate cards and Chord of calling target but it's kinda slow to deal with affinity.
-Nissa, Steward of Elements: One of the most interesting planeswalker designs that we have seen yet. Sadly she can't protect herself and needs a lot of mana to do work which isn't where you want to be in this format.
-Liliana, Death's Majesty: while I like the design of this card I feel like she is a tad too slow for modern right now. Powerful abilities but she is embarrassing to cast in the face of Thragtusk, reality smasher, Elspeth, Sun's champion,karn liberated, Primeval titan, etc. I can see her being interesting as a grindy option in the esper goyos deck that casts ghost council/jace but that's it.
-Vizier of the Menagerie: There is a lot of power to be had here in terms of card advantage but I don't see what he does that tireless tracker/eternal witness/renegade rallier don't do for card advantage. To make matters worse he is not a hit for collected company decks. It's worth noting that he has great interactions with evoke creatures like mulldrifter.
-Kefnet the Mindful: While paying 2U for a 5/5 indestructible flyer is a really good rate this card has many hurdles to get there. The biggest hurdle that sees a lot of play in modern is liliana of the veil as she will make this card feel real bad to play. To make matters harder for our bird friend discards spells are heavily played in death shadow decks/abzan/traditional jund which round out roughly 25% of the format. (Inquisition of Kozilek, thought seize, collective brutality.). Even if you some how get past all of that path to exile is still a heavily played card.
-Hazoret the Fervent: Probably the most playable of the gods that have been spoiled this far in modern as the Pervert can be top decked and deal 5 hasty damage to the face as an indestructible creature. It also doesn't ask a lot of the player as getting down to 1 card isn't tough with LOTV and brutality being in the format. Still 3R for this ability isn't a great rate and path to exile is heavily played in the format for the hoops that this card makes you jump through. Close but no cigar.
-Oketra the True: Cute in bw tokens build as it gets instantly activated off of casting spectral procession but this is probably worse than Sorin, solemn visitor or gideon, ally of zendikar.
-Honored Hydra: Paying 3G for a 6/6 trample is okay in modern but you can probably do better. Cute card.
-Combat Celebrant: Another infinite with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker but there is no reason in the world to play this over restoration angel, Village Bell-Ringer, pestermite, or deceiver exarch. This now means that Kiki has an infinite with a card at each rarity. They don't call him the mirror breaker from a areason
-Trueheart Duelist: Cute for value but it's not a good card.
-Dusk/Dawn: Cute in aristocrat decks but not playable because dawn doesn't reanimate.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I think you're forgetting that we're playing a format that has quite a few GY shenanigans. The discard clause isn't even a downside if you're chucking Lingering Souls or a useless land which you can then use to power out a Tasigur/Angler after you untap. In a deck that can make use of the discard for gas (like grixis control) then this is clearly better than BSZ.
Also if you've played SR control before, how often were you casting it for 4 mana? It's not a 4 mana cast to bridge the gap in mid game, its a 6+ mana cast that puts you steadily ahead once the game is in the later stages (but can also be used for 4 mana or 3 mana if you're in a situation where you have to do that)
Essentially it's a slightly worse Sphinx's Revelation that can be played in 3 or 4 color draw-go, which I think is powerful enough to see some play.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
i cant believe you puted him in ''might see play'' i mean did you already forgot about eldrazi winter and how emeria, the sky ruin and sun titan were doing great against them? hes a 4 of in the deck and i believe its all we needed to get this deck to rise to type 1 or at least type 2 with a little tweaking here and there.
gideon of the trials is the new best friend of sun titan im surprise nobody sees that....
he also looks really great in death and taxes, wanna kill my gideon? ill just flickerwisp it
besides maelstrom pulse and abrupt decay there isnt much removal that gets rid of him that are played right now.
the only non damage one i can think of is detention sphere and it doesnt really see much play.
top 5 anime of all time (tv, not books because dragon ball would be first)
1. Sword art online 2. Fairy tail 3. Naruto(shipuden) 4. Bleach 5. Claymore
I'm not that impressed by him. Sun titan costs 6 mana to cast and if you cast sun titan you are probably already winning anyhow so I don't care about that synergy. Most of the things that you name that are good about him are good on permanents that are arguably better than him. Emeria is also a mediocre deck that hasn't put up results in ages because it's slow and not that good into this new meta. Gideon dies to path if he attacks, he is bad against more than one creature, inquisition makes you discard him, etc. He also isn't great when you are behind where as: liliana/nahiri/chandra/ugin/karn/gideon ally can get you back in a game. He hoses combo decks which is nice and he seems good for ad naus since they can just cast ad naus when his emblem is out. At the end of the day the question in my book is: is he better than kitchen finks? They both occupy the same spot on the curve but finks is a more impactful card for your strategy.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
No.
Cycle means "discard a card" + " draw a card".
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
Besides, it says "another card." I don't think you can scry at all off of it.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
My understanding is Curator trigger ability(Scry 1) will trigger when you do the cycle (cycle a card other than Curator for sure), which means when you complete the whole cycle action(discard a cycleable card and draw a card).
Therefore, yoh cannot put Curator trigger ability above the cycle on the stack.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
I meant when Curator is in play, yes. So when you cycle another card you get to scry 1, then cycle happens?
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
According to Shefet Monitor, yes--you activate the Cycling ability by paying the cost and discarding the card, then the Curator/Shefet trigger goes on top, then that trigger resolves, then you draw the card from Cycling.
On a more relevant note, how relevant do you all think Harsh Mentor will be in Modern? He's being ballyhooed in the Rumor Mill, but part of me can't shake the feeling that several Modern decks can easily shrug off the damage (even to fetch cracks), such as Burn, Merfolk on a mediocre day, and Bant Eldrazi living the Thought-Knot Seer-Reality Smasher not-quite-dream...
My question is simple:
If a trigger ability where the trigger condition is cycle, does it mean that when cycle is put in the stack, or mean that when cycle is resolved?
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
This is triggers 101. When you pay the cycle cost, the cycling ability goes on the stack. This triggers Sphinx, and then Sphinx's trigger goes on the stack above the cycling. It will resolve first. After you scry, the cycle resolves. This is exactly how it worked in old Rift and Slide formats and it's how it works today.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
If you are in red, you probably like passive one sided damage... So lets see how many things it hits. I'm just going to go through all the decks and name cards main deck:
Jund Death Shadow
Total- 4
Dredge
Total- 3
Burn
Total- 4
Abzan
Total- 7
Grixis Shadow
Total: 4
Eldrazi Tron
Total-8
Affinity
total- 9
Tron
Total- 6
Storm
Scalding Tarn
total- 1
Bant Eldrazi
Total: 5
Titan Shift
Total: 3
Merfolk
Total: 3
Jund
total: 5
Ad Nauseam
total: 3
Azban Company
Total: 10
Grixis Delver
- Tasigur, the Golden Fang
- Bloodstained Mire
- Polluted Delta
- Scalding Tarn
Total- 4Grixis Control
- Tasigur, the Golden Fang
- Bloodstained Mire
- Polluted Delta
- Scalding Tarn
- Creeping Tar Pit
Total- 5Knightfall
Total: 10
Death and Taxes
Total: 3
U/W Control
Total- 5
Living end
Total: 3
Lantern Control
Total: 6
Goryo's Vengeance
Total: 3
Amulet Bloom
Total-7
Fae
Total: 3
Zoo
Total- 4
Infect
Total-5
Sun and Moon
Arid Mesa
Total- 1
Esper Control
Total- 4
Elves
Total: 4
Sideboards
Out of the top sideboard cards this also hits:
Thats hitting 141 cases of cards over 30 decks. An average of 4.7 different cards per deck.
And thats not saying how many cards that is. If it hits 5 cards, and of those 5 its, 3 different fetch lands, ooze and raging ravine... Thats 15 cards. To be clear, thats 1/4th of their deck that its hitting.
There is a TON of passive power on this guy. He just sits there, not damaging you, easily splashable, at 2 mana, just burning them if they dont get rid of him... Often having to fetch TO kill him. There isnt a SINGLE deck in the meta he doesnt at least hit one card name on, and the math shows... hes often hitting 4-5 (12-15 cards) on average.
This guy is insane.
While I agree it's a really good card, do note that it only hits for activations on the battlefield, so it's not going to hit street wraith cycling or dredge activations from the yard.
EDIT: Or Ghor-Clan Rampager Bloodrush, for that matter
Usefulness drops from 5.2 card names (can be 12-20 cards) to 4.7, so more like 10 to 18 cards per deck on average. Still stupidly strong.
So how good is it? On one hand, we have Tunnel Ignus, which hates on a cycle of cards played in nearly every deck, but sees zero play. On the other, we have Eidolon of the Great Revel, a Burn staple which damages continuously (even yourself). Eidolon incidentally hoses all those "play 20 spells in one turn" decks like Storm, Cheerios, Eggs, etc. Mentor hoses Affinity's payoff cards, and the Melira combo (sort of - they can get still infinite bolster triggers with Anafenza, but not infinite life).
If we take Boros Charm as our benchmark for 2-mana burn, Harsh Mentor must trigger an average of twice per game in order to pull its weight. Is that going to happen often? If you catch a single fetchland activation and attack once with it, it's already done its job, but there are also all those times where you topdeck it while facing lethal, or play it and it gets killed without anything to show for it (Eidolon would have hit your opponent for 2).
Overall I think it's closer to Tunnel Ignus than Eidolon of the Great Revel. I can't see it replacing Eidolon, or any other 2-drop in Burn. There may be a non-Burn deck that wants it, maybe 5-color Humans, so you can play the disruptive duo of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Harsh Mentor, and have them pick up Thalia' Lieutenant bonuses.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I rarely disagree with you, but I will on this one. Dark confidant, tarmo both have the same "Needs to not die" clause, but they manage to still see play. Tunnel is a 2/1, and does 1 extra damage on the fetch. But he doesnt also hurt several more cards by existing. He only hits one group of cards, the same this does but this also hits swaths more.
And as far as Eidolon goes, yeah, eidolon is more powerful in a nut shell... but isnt splashed easily (actually, at all) while this is. Also this doesnt hurt you, which actually really really matters here. Eidolon needs a very certain type of deck to work. This doesnt. All it does is punish your opponents, and hits off on average (thanks reddit) 15-25% of the cards used across modern decks.
Burn, and sometimes zoo wants eidolon. ALOT more decks can viably use this.