Well, you can play more than one deck and I'm not a spike.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
The "consequences" of DRS banning are the modern diverse meta we have today with graveyard decks and attrition decks.
Graveyard decks were flat out unplayable before DRS got the axe. And any control-ish deck trying to attrition-out Jund would have a hard time with 1-mana planeswalkers chipshotting their life totals.
Gotta say that I'm excited to see what impact the return of Cycling in Amonkhet will have on the format. Cycling lands would be really cool, and of course as someone who dabbles in Living End, more juicy cycling creatures would be awesome.
Maybe we could even get a one-sided Astral Slide (WotC has shied away from symmetrical effects like that), but that seems unlikely.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Reworked unearth is cool. There could be some playable mummy makers
I'm super nervous about embalm and the graveyard theme generally. Dredge really doesn't need more help. The good news is that all the old unearth cards are too bad for Dredge, which suggests the new unearth cards could also be bad. The bad news is that Wizards has already proven their Standard-accetable graveyard cards are inadvertently pushed for Modern Dredge (Neonate, Amalgam, Reunion), so who knows what will fall through the cracks. Also, unlike unearth, embalmed cards stick around and generate a permanent board presence. Needless to say, I'm nervous.
That all said, I'm very happy to see cycling return. It's a great mechanic with lots of design space, and I'm hopeful we see some strong Modern application.
Opportunity for cycle counterspell? Great way to make an early game interactive card that can just be tossed away for delve fuel as the game gets out of its effectiveness range.
Cycle Spike U
Instant
Counter target spell unless it's controller pays 1.
Cycling 1
Reworked unearth is cool. There could be some playable mummy makers
I'm super nervous about embalm and the graveyard theme generally. Dredge really doesn't need more help. The good news is that all the old unearth cards are too bad for Dredge, which suggests the new unearth cards could also be bad. The bad news is that Wizards has already proven their Standard-accetable graveyard cards are inadvertently pushed for Modern Dredge (Neonate, Amalgam, Reunion), so who knows what will fall through the cracks. Also, unlike unearth, embalmed cards stick around and generate a permanent board presence. Needless to say, I'm nervous.
That all said, I'm very happy to see cycling return. It's a great mechanic with lots of design space, and I'm hopeful we see some strong Modern application.
Relax. As long as they all have a reasonable mana cost to embalm, there won't be a problem. It's only when mana costs are cheated that we see problems (Prized Amalgam, Bloodghast, Narcomoeba, Dread Return, Ichorid)
Unearth was never busted because you still had to pay mana to do it. Only Scourge Devil saw play in dredge
Reworked unearth is cool. There could be some playable mummy makers
I'm super nervous about embalm and the graveyard theme generally. Dredge really doesn't need more help. The good news is that all the old unearth cards are too bad for Dredge, which suggests the new unearth cards could also be bad. The bad news is that Wizards has already proven their Standard-accetable graveyard cards are inadvertently pushed for Modern Dredge (Neonate, Amalgam, Reunion), so who knows what will fall through the cracks. Also, unlike unearth, embalmed cards stick around and generate a permanent board presence. Needless to say, I'm nervous.
That all said, I'm very happy to see cycling return. It's a great mechanic with lots of design space, and I'm hopeful we see some strong Modern application.
Embalm is definitely dicey, but the value-junkie in me really likes the idea. Maybe as part of the "Oops No Answers" realization and re-orientation, we can see some new, playable exile effects and/or graveyard hate pop up to help out.
I really like how much modality we're seeing in the mechanics. Exert means you have a choice of trading attacks/blocks for a different effect. Cycle means you have a choice of playing a card or digging. Aftermath cards in your graveyard are essentially split cards if you have Snapcaster Mage for recursion (cast for Aftermath vs. cast for Flashback). As someone who's about 10% Johnny, 15% Spike, 110% Melvin, I'm really excited to see where they go with these mechanics.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
I was pretty disappointed to not see a revolt counterspell in Aether Revolt, but am cautiously hopeful for a Modern-playable cycling counterspell. Miscalculation is close to Mana Leak early, but cycles away in the late game. Complicate is probably too mana-inefficient, but is an interesting design: the regular effect is generally stronger, while the cycling effect is weaker but has an upside. Something similar could be a welcome addition.
I was pretty disappointed to not see a revolt counterspell in Aether Revolt, but am cautiously hopeful for a Modern-playable cycling counterspell. Miscalculation is close to Mana Leak early, but cycles away in the late game. Complicate is probably too mana-inefficient, but is an interesting design: the regular effect is generally stronger, while the cycling effect is weaker but has an upside. Something similar could be a welcome addition.
It actually seems to me like even with WotC's timid approach to permission in Standard, this block would be a fine place for Miscalculation. Along with obviously fitting in with the Cycle mechanic, permission loses some of its oomph when you have spells that can be cast from your graveyard and creatures with effectively uncounterable Flashback. It could even be printed with flavor representing the Gatewatch "miscalculating" when they went after Bolas.
I don't know how huge an impact it would have on Modern, but I imagine it could be useful in Delver-style decks.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
"And if you are a merfolk player, why the hell do you care about a DRS unban? You do realize that DRS would make your Merfolk deck bad, right? You really want to see creature removal heavy decks on a daily basis?"
Regarding this, I don't think I'd mind much. Three color decks that run incredibly aggressive mana bases aren't much of a threat. Between Seas Claim and spreading seas I can pretty consistently make their day pretty miserable.
Actually the correct answer is we will never know. That's the problem with banning things.
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Your right, the format didn't adjust. And there was or should have been plenty of time for that to happen. I guess my question becomes, did it not adjust because DRS was really too damn good, or did players even try? There were angles available that never took and honestly I think it's because the modern community expected mother WotC to ban the boogeyman. No one made the effort because they didn't have to. As to "who cares about consequences?" Well every single person in here complaining about something should care. Its all interconnected design wise. WotC doesn't just design a set at a time, they design blocks, plural at a time. Every time a piece has to be cut out, it leaves a design hole in the format. I'd argue that the reason graveyard strats are so problematic is because the format had the best tool to deal with them removed. Likewise as to why SCM was so powerful for a while. A piece that would have kept it in check was removed. There is a reasonable possibility SCM was never intended to be a powerhouse card. I mean it was printed at rare with the mythic option available. Our pathetic little cycles in modern is nothing compared to what WotC is doing as a whole. When they have to retcon design, there are consequences and they are relevant.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Your right, the format didn't adjust. And there was or should have been plenty of time for that to happen. I guess my question becomes, did it not adjust because DRS was really too damn good, or did players even try? There were angles available that never took and honestly I think it's because the modern community expected mother WotC to ban the boogeyman. No one made the effort because they didn't have to. As to "who cares about consequences?" Well every single person in here complaining about something should care. Its all interconnected design wise. WotC doesn't just design a set at a time, they design blocks, plural at a time. Every time a piece has to be cut out, it leaves a design hole in the format. I'd argue that the reason graveyard strats are so problematic is because the format had the best tool to deal with them removed. Likewise as to why SCM was so powerful for a while. A piece that would have kept it in check was removed. There is a reasonable possibility SCM was never intended to be a powerhouse card. I mean it was printed at rare with the mythic option available. Our pathetic little cycles in modern is nothing compared to what WotC is doing as a whole. When they have to retcon design, there are consequences and they are relevant.
You have WAY too much faith in Design, Development, or both.
They design blocks, but they have such shallow testing, they FLAT OUT MISS infinite combo's during all that Future Future League testing, which then break Standard over its knee. They miss or discount the power of certain mechanics or cards ALL the time.
'design in blocks' HAHA! Maybe in the older sets, when they had obvious answers in each following block, but now? Where is that GY hate in Kaladesh again?
Modern is built on the backs of Wizards MISTAKES. Things they admit to not wanting to do again, and you think that their design 'in blocks' is relevant? Come on man. You give these guys 'oh we missed copy cat completely lol' way too much credit.
So with the recent decline of Abzan, what a about unbanning SFM (enough of the ridiculous talk about DRS). No real price issue, it does not fit a tier 1 deck (Abzan won't stay there until the next announcement) and is a possible improvement for UWx. It seems quite reasonable.
So with the recent decline of Abzan, what a about unbanning SFM (enough of the ridiculous talk about DRS). No real price issue, it does not fit a tier 1 deck (Abzan won't stay there until the next announcement) and is a possible improvement for UWx. It seems quite reasonable.
Abzan might be Tier 2 now, but Bant Eldrazi is alive and kicking, and i don't think Eldrazi Blade would be bad. Actually, it might be the sole reason they wouldn't unban that one. SFM+Jace is a little more reasonable since you at least incetivize people to try SFM in a reactive shell but i doubt they will take that route.
I'm more lean towards only Jace, or Preordain, if any unban where to take place in April or June/July.
So with the recent decline of Abzan, what a about unbanning SFM (enough of the ridiculous talk about DRS). No real price issue, it does not fit a tier 1 deck (Abzan won't stay there until the next announcement) and is a possible improvement for UWx. It seems quite reasonable.
Jund Shadow is a Tier 1 deck, and arguably the best deck right now, and it already splashes for white (Souls and Traverse targets). It might as well tutor SFM and then go grab Batterskull or the most relevant Sword, so I'm not so sure about that. Also, Abzan Midrange isn't gone. Sure, it has dipped this month to 3% online, but it also just won the MOCS and overperformed there, putting 5 copies in the Top32, which would mean the deck is better than most think and it may soon go back to Tier 1.
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Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Your right, the format didn't adjust. And there was or should have been plenty of time for that to happen. I guess my question becomes, did it not adjust because DRS was really too damn good...
Jund Shadow is a Tier 1 deck, and arguably the best deck right now, and it already splashes for white (Souls and Traverse targets). It might as well tutor SFM and then go grab Batterskull or the most relevant Sword, so I'm not so sure about that. Also, Abzan Midrange isn't gone. Sure, it has dipped this month to 3% online, but it also just won the MOCS and overperformed there, putting 5 copies in the Top32, which would mean the deck is better than most think and it may soon go back to Tier 1.
They wouldn't play Batterskull because it's a nonbo with Death Shadow. I don't think playing SFM just for the swords in that deck would be that good. Equipment is still pretty mana inefficient even if you're getting a little discount and can play it at instant speed, and that deck is all about mana efficiency.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Shadow isn't going to play sfm, that's way too much commitment for a deck that plays 1 land to case white. Baterskulls and swords would clunk the deck up. Shadow would have to give up a color to play sfm
SFM won't slot into Death's Shadow for sure. The whole point of the deck is to have a fast clock backed up with disruption. SFM gives you value and a late game, but that's not what the deck is lacking.
If Death's Shadow, Revolt Zoo, Burn continue to dominate then yes Stoneforge Mystic becomes a much more likely unban. It gives UWx control decks a good creature/end game package and it makes Midrange better. But it does mean we will see a standardization of the midrange decks with Abzan over Jund or Sultai. If DS still dominates in a month I say unban SFM, but the format is still shaking out from the last ban.
They wouldn't play Batterskull because it's a nonbo with Death Shadow. I don't think playing SFM just for the swords in that deck would be that good. Equipment is still pretty mana inefficient even if you're getting a little discount and can play it at instant speed, and that deck is all about mana efficiency.
Shadow isn't going to play sfm, that's way too much commitment for a deck that plays 1 land to case white. Baterskulls and swords would clunk the deck up. Shadow would have to give up a color to play sfm
SFM won't slot into Death's Shadow for sure. The whole point of the deck is to have a fast clock backed up with disruption. SFM gives you value and a late game, but that's not what the deck is lacking.
We are on the same page guys, SFM + BS certainly goes against the deck's primary plan. Still, there are some matchups and scenarios (like more threats against Surgical) when you may want to grab SFM but I understand it's a rabbit hole not worth getting into. Ultimately, it's still a Tier 1 deck with access to white and it is quite possible they deem the deck would also play Stoneforge Mystic if they unban it, which is sad. I'd certainly unban it if Abzan stays at 3%, for sure.
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Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Given how many of the top decks either don't care about facing down Stoneforge Mystic and/or don't really care to run Stoneforge Mystic, it actually seems almost conservative right now. It doesn't seem like it would have a home in Death's Shadow, nor is it particularly strong vs. Shadow's creatures; Bant Eldrazi both out-bigs and out-values it; Tron laughs at it, as does pretty much every combo deck; Abzan is dropping in relevance and doesn't even get much better with SFM.
I can see the argument that SFM mostly helps midrange and control decks against aggressive decks, which midrange and control are already pretty good against. But honestly I think there's a good chance that by empowering those decks (especially control) against one segment of the meta, they can tune more heavily towards their other, weaker matchups. For instance, jamming the 5-6-card Stoneforge package into UW Control means maybe cutting Wall of Omens, slimming down Kitchen Finks, dropping a 1-of Jace, Architect of Thought, pulling sideboard Timely Reinforcements, etc. That is, replacing the very slow cards used to make it to the late game vs. aggro with other cards used to make it to the late game vs. aggro, but also presenting an actual clock at the same time. With any extra space, you can grab some more land hate for Tron, or Negates for spell-based combo, or Condemn for Death's Shadow, etc.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
The only negative consequence that was iffy thus far was Splinter Twin
Recent bans like Eye of Ugan, GGT, POD, Treasure Cruise/DTT, Eye made this format better
DRS was a 20% deck that was heavily in the top 8 every tournament. The format was not adjusting.
If it's not unjustly prisoned then I have no clue what you're arguing. It's an oppressive card. Period.
Who the hell cares if people don't like the consequences, there were consequences to POD being banned, too
Graveyard decks were flat out unplayable before DRS got the axe. And any control-ish deck trying to attrition-out Jund would have a hard time with 1-mana planeswalkers chipshotting their life totals.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Maybe we could even get a one-sided Astral Slide (WotC has shied away from symmetrical effects like that), but that seems unlikely.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Cycling is very welcome too. Especially if it's cheaper than Cycling 2.
Reworked unearth is cool. There could be some playable mummy makers
I'm super nervous about embalm and the graveyard theme generally. Dredge really doesn't need more help. The good news is that all the old unearth cards are too bad for Dredge, which suggests the new unearth cards could also be bad. The bad news is that Wizards has already proven their Standard-accetable graveyard cards are inadvertently pushed for Modern Dredge (Neonate, Amalgam, Reunion), so who knows what will fall through the cracks. Also, unlike unearth, embalmed cards stick around and generate a permanent board presence. Needless to say, I'm nervous.
That all said, I'm very happy to see cycling return. It's a great mechanic with lots of design space, and I'm hopeful we see some strong Modern application.
Cycle Spike U
Instant
Counter target spell unless it's controller pays 1.
Cycling 1
Cycle Leak 1U
Instant
Counter target spell unless it's controller pays 3.
Cycling 2 (or 3?)
edit: Apparently Miscalculation is already a card and could simply be reprinted.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Relax. As long as they all have a reasonable mana cost to embalm, there won't be a problem. It's only when mana costs are cheated that we see problems (Prized Amalgam, Bloodghast, Narcomoeba, Dread Return, Ichorid)
Unearth was never busted because you still had to pay mana to do it. Only Scourge Devil saw play in dredge
I really like how much modality we're seeing in the mechanics. Exert means you have a choice of trading attacks/blocks for a different effect. Cycle means you have a choice of playing a card or digging. Aftermath cards in your graveyard are essentially split cards if you have Snapcaster Mage for recursion (cast for Aftermath vs. cast for Flashback). As someone who's about 10% Johnny, 15% Spike, 110% Melvin, I'm really excited to see where they go with these mechanics.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
It actually seems to me like even with WotC's timid approach to permission in Standard, this block would be a fine place for Miscalculation. Along with obviously fitting in with the Cycle mechanic, permission loses some of its oomph when you have spells that can be cast from your graveyard and creatures with effectively uncounterable Flashback. It could even be printed with flavor representing the Gatewatch "miscalculating" when they went after Bolas.
I don't know how huge an impact it would have on Modern, but I imagine it could be useful in Delver-style decks.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Regarding this, I don't think I'd mind much. Three color decks that run incredibly aggressive mana bases aren't much of a threat. Between Seas Claim and spreading seas I can pretty consistently make their day pretty miserable.
Actually the correct answer is we will never know. That's the problem with banning things.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
RUG Temur Deprive Delver
BUG Sultai Deprive Delver
You have WAY too much faith in Design, Development, or both.
They design blocks, but they have such shallow testing, they FLAT OUT MISS infinite combo's during all that Future Future League testing, which then break Standard over its knee. They miss or discount the power of certain mechanics or cards ALL the time.
'design in blocks' HAHA! Maybe in the older sets, when they had obvious answers in each following block, but now? Where is that GY hate in Kaladesh again?
Modern is built on the backs of Wizards MISTAKES. Things they admit to not wanting to do again, and you think that their design 'in blocks' is relevant? Come on man. You give these guys 'oh we missed copy cat completely lol' way too much credit.
Spirits
Legacy: UWR Miracles [https://deckstats.net/decks/44442/1092831-uwr-miracles-2]
Abzan might be Tier 2 now, but Bant Eldrazi is alive and kicking, and i don't think Eldrazi Blade would be bad. Actually, it might be the sole reason they wouldn't unban that one. SFM+Jace is a little more reasonable since you at least incetivize people to try SFM in a reactive shell but i doubt they will take that route.
I'm more lean towards only Jace, or Preordain, if any unban where to take place in April or June/July.
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Yes.
They wouldn't play Batterskull because it's a nonbo with Death Shadow. I don't think playing SFM just for the swords in that deck would be that good. Equipment is still pretty mana inefficient even if you're getting a little discount and can play it at instant speed, and that deck is all about mana efficiency.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
If Death's Shadow, Revolt Zoo, Burn continue to dominate then yes Stoneforge Mystic becomes a much more likely unban. It gives UWx control decks a good creature/end game package and it makes Midrange better. But it does mean we will see a standardization of the midrange decks with Abzan over Jund or Sultai. If DS still dominates in a month I say unban SFM, but the format is still shaking out from the last ban.
We are on the same page guys, SFM + BS certainly goes against the deck's primary plan. Still, there are some matchups and scenarios (like more threats against Surgical) when you may want to grab SFM but I understand it's a rabbit hole not worth getting into. Ultimately, it's still a Tier 1 deck with access to white and it is quite possible they deem the deck would also play Stoneforge Mystic if they unban it, which is sad. I'd certainly unban it if Abzan stays at 3%, for sure.
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
I can see the argument that SFM mostly helps midrange and control decks against aggressive decks, which midrange and control are already pretty good against. But honestly I think there's a good chance that by empowering those decks (especially control) against one segment of the meta, they can tune more heavily towards their other, weaker matchups. For instance, jamming the 5-6-card Stoneforge package into UW Control means maybe cutting Wall of Omens, slimming down Kitchen Finks, dropping a 1-of Jace, Architect of Thought, pulling sideboard Timely Reinforcements, etc. That is, replacing the very slow cards used to make it to the late game vs. aggro with other cards used to make it to the late game vs. aggro, but also presenting an actual clock at the same time. With any extra space, you can grab some more land hate for Tron, or Negates for spell-based combo, or Condemn for Death's Shadow, etc.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
"Splinter Twin was a fair and balanced Magic card, and its banning was a TRAVESTY!" There, that should scratch your itch for a while ;-P
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW