With regards to Ancient Stirrings, Amulet Titan is a bit of an outlier, simply because I've "whiffed" on Ancient Stirrings a number of times because there were cards I could take but they were better for me in my library. So I've definitely done "look at the top 5, oh, can't take any of the cards there because they're better on my bottom, guess I reveal nothing..."
I've played probably 20 matches of Lantern, 20 matches of GR and GW Tron, 100 matches of Bloom Titan and Amulet Titan (post-ban), and 30 matches of Bant Eldrazi. I have never once failed to put a card in my hand. (I should clarify that this is at FNMs, GPTs, PPTQs, and RPTQs. I have also played way more than that in practice, including probably around 500 matches of mostly GR Tron in practice.)
Now I'm guessing you had Slayer's Stronghold and some combination of 4 Pacts/Titans, but it's incredibly unlucky to NOT get a single card. Yes, obviously it doesn't always get the Tron piece, the Thought-Knot Seer or Eldrazi Temple, the Ensnaring Bridge, the Amulet of Vigor or Karoo, or whatever, but it rarely whiffs (the worst usually being a basic land out of Bant Eldrazi usually). The card is incredibly strong in the decks that play it and I am guessing that if those decks ever became a problem, the card would be examined by Wizards.
That being said, I am completely with Melkor. If the cantrips are as powerful as many do think they are, then there can be future bans at that time. But I don't think that it is necessarily a guarantee by any means that they will push decks too much. Preordain is definitely a start. The Modern format will be much better with it.
*Also I should say that people need to understand the whole picture with cards like Ancient Stirrings. I won a game during the beginning of Abzan Company because I cast a Collected Company that whiffed completely. I was in a grindy game with Twin and after missing on that CoCo, I hit 4 straight creatures, including 2 Kitchen Finks and completely took over. If I had to draw those 6 cards, I lose 100%. That was actually the best CoCo I have ever cast in any form of Magic with Abzan Company, although it was frustrating at that very moment until I drew creature after creature.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Also I should say that people need to understand the whole picture with cards like Ancient Stirrings. I won a game during the beginning of Abzan Company because I cast a Collected Company that whiffed completely. I was in a grindy game with Twin and after missing on that CoCo, I hit 4 straight creatures, including 2 Kitchen Finks and completely took over. If I had to draw those 6 cards, I lose 100%. That was actually the best CoCo I have ever cast in any form of Magic with Abzan Company, although it was frustrating at that very moment until I drew creature after creature.
I think this is the real power of Ancient Stirrings in decks that can use it. You're finding the one card out of the top five that will be useful soon, and even if you whiff you're getting rid of 5 bad cards. I've definitely cast Stirrings where my reaction was "Well, I'm super glad I'm not drawing any of those next turn..."
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Also I should say that people need to understand the whole picture with cards like Ancient Stirrings. I won a game during the beginning of Abzan Company because I cast a Collected Company that whiffed completely. I was in a grindy game with Twin and after missing on that CoCo, I hit 4 straight creatures, including 2 Kitchen Finks and completely took over. If I had to draw those 6 cards, I lose 100%. That was actually the best CoCo I have ever cast in any form of Magic with Abzan Company, although it was frustrating at that very moment until I drew creature after creature.
I think this is the real power of Ancient Stirrings in decks that can use it. You're finding the one card out of the top five that will be useful soon, and even if you whiff you're getting rid of 5 bad cards. I've definitely cast Stirrings where my reaction was "Well, I'm super glad I'm not drawing any of those next turn..."
Definitely. I think many lower level players would not recognize this.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
So that means the cards used in their respective decks .. preordain is better then Stirrings.
Explain to us all how Scry 2, Draw 1 is better in its deck than look at 5, take 1 in its. Stirrings will always dig at least 2 cards deeper than Preordain, and even 1 card deeper than Ponder can dig. This is a pure numbers game, you're objectively wrong.
More easily, if Preordain was green, and you could not play both in Tron, would any Tron player choose green Preordain over Stirrings?
No.
Yeah, this is a really telling line of thought. Ask any Tron player if they would trade Stirrings for a green Preordain, there's no way they'd be ok with that trade.
Ancient Stirrings is fine. If your hand is urza's tower, stirrings, and sylvan scrying, and stirrings flips over more towers or threats, youre in pretty bad shape. In lantern it can fail to find you a bridge and you roll over dead to a goblin guide or something.
The problem is that Preordain and Ponder are banned in Modern because WotC has said they don't like consistency tools that are too powerful, and yet Stirrings is a more powerful consistency tool than anything else in Modern by a mile, and is better than cards that are banned. They aren't being consistent here, either Stirrings shouldn't be in Modern, or unban some of the blue cantrips. I would personally prefer they unbanned the blue cantrips.
It's not fair to compare the two as ancient stirrings is often played in combo-ish decks and must grab certain things during certain times, but preordain can go in control or midrange. With preordain youre just looking for a some sort of a good stuff card in cryptic command or path to exile, or maybe hitting land drops on time.
Which is even more points towards Preordain? You always want to support the fair decks because their existence promotes format health.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I was thinking about how Preordain would help blue decks. And I don't know how you can say, that it will help control. Of course, changing Serum Visions to Preordain will be an upgrade, but it won't solve problems control decks have in Modern - it's too difficult to have responses to everything in Modern metagame in 75 cards. Preordain would help in fast finding missing lands or removal, but compared to what Preoradain would give to Storm or Ad Nauseam it's not even close. Giving combo decks better cantrips will disturb the balance we curretly have in modern metagame. Combo dekcs finding what they need is much more scary compared to control.
If Ad Nauseam becomes too powerful, ban Simian Spirit Guide (many people already want it banned)
If Storm becomes too powerful, ban Grapeshot (also hits Cheerios)
Blue shouldn't have to suffer because combo decks get to use its cantrips
Oh, and in case you think this is bias against combo my two modern decks are Ad Naus and Storm
If Ad Nauseam becomes too powerful, ban Simian Spirit Guide (many people already want it banned)
If Storm becomes too powerful, ban Grapeshot (also hits Cheerios)
Blue shouldn't have to suffer because combo decks get to use its cantrips
Oh, and in case you think this is bias against combo my two modern decks are Ad Naus and Storm
Banning decks out of the format is not an acceptable option to me.
What if Ancient Stirrings was a blue card? The exact same card, just color shifted. Anyone think strongly that green should have better card selection than blue? How would people feel about it? Would it be "completely fine?"
Another thing:
We have Serum Visions and Sleight of Hand and Wizards feels like these are fine for the format. They have kept Ponder and Preordain on the B/R list for the time being. If an upgrade/alternative to the presently available options is coming, it may be something in between.
Sleight digs you two cards deeper (choose one of two)
Serum Visions digs you up to three cards deeper (draw, scry 2). Preordain digs you up to three cards deeper (scry 2, cantrip). Ponder digs up to four.
It doesn't appear that the total amount of digging is the concern (as long as it's up to three), it's the selection order which powers up Preordain vs. Serum Visions.
An intermediate option would be something like this:
U - Sorcery
Scry 1, Draw a card, Scry 1.
This gives more selection on the draw than Serum Visions but the same amount of digging (still three cards if you bottom, draw, bottom).
Alternatively, a reprint of Opt would be a slight change in cantrip environment (in that it's instant speed).
There are very few competitive decks in Modern that play either Anticipate or a 2 mana cantrip effect. Think Twice is probably the most played of the 2 CMC cantrips (that and Remand). Am I missing any?
I think the addition of an extra look on Impulse vs. Anticipate could potentially put us in a sweet spot for the effect. It would be tried out, I think, but you can only jam so many 2 CMC cantrips into your list in this format because of the speed of modern and need to trade your mana for resources rapidly on the first few turns of most games.
There are very few competitive decks in Modern that play either Anticipate or a 2 mana cantrip effect. Think Twice is probably the most played of the 2 CMC cantrips (that and Remand). Am I missing any?
I play Peer Through Depths in Ad Nauseam to moderate success. Although it is much more limited in which cards it can grab.
Compared to decks that play Ancient Stirrings, the percentage of the deck Peer can actually grab is much smaller.
I play Peer Through Depths in Ad Nauseam to moderate success. Although it is much more limited in which cards it can grab.
Compared to decks that play Ancient Stirrings, the percentage of the deck Peer can actually grab is much smaller.
Fair point about Peer Through Depths. I was under the impression almost everyone had moved off that card and switch over to Spoils of the Vault versions of Ad Naus, but you're definitely right in the fact that Peer is very limited. I've tried it in a U/W control shell in the past and found the inability to grab a land was too costly, even if your deck is 30+ instants/sorceries.
Would a 1-mana sorcery version of Peer through Depths be playable ?
Will it be too good ? (If so it can be reduced to top 4 cards instead of 5)
Impulse as an instant and being 2-mana instead of one seems to slot better into control decks rather than be "abused" by combo decks (like Preordain) that won't care much for the instant speed and want most (if not all) their cantrips to be 1-mana.
Control decks keep mana up for counters anyway so a good instant speed cantrip should be very playable in those decks.
Could it be reprinted in Standard (or get a functional reprint) ?
It seems that it won't be too good or oppressive there imho.
Making a good cantrip that is bad in combo is fairly easy. For instance
Not a Combo Brainstorm U
Instant
Draw 2 cards, then put one card from your hand on top of your library.
The next spell you cast this turn is countered unless you pay an additional 1.
See how that tests, and if combo can still use it, just move the tax up to 2. This way you can't just chain this cantrip together with other spells, and works much better in a shell where you are firing this off with extra mana instead of using it to find immediate plays. If you just need the land, then no harm casting as sorcery.
Just give the cantrip a drawback on other spells played the same turn, and voila! Combo decks can't really use them well.
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If Ad Nauseam becomes too powerful, ban Simian Spirit Guide (many people already want it banned)
If Storm becomes too powerful, ban Grapeshot (also hits Cheerios)
Blue shouldn't have to suffer because combo decks get to use its cantrips
Oh, and in case you think this is bias against combo my two modern decks are Ad Naus and Storm
Banning decks out of the format is not an acceptable option to me.
Neither of those bans remove the deck from the format, it just slows each deck down by a turn. AN already isn't a blazing fast deck, my friend plays it as his primary, we have talked about this exact scenario and he would gladly give up SSG to have proper cantrips. Storm would survive, it would probably be better than it is now, it would just have to play Empty the Warrens and use the combat phase. I don't want to see decks straight up removed under any but the worst circumstances, I thought that what they did to Twin and Pod was disgusting. I don't like Storm, but my objection is to Grapeshot, it just feels bad because it is so difficult to do anything about
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"Storm" would cease to exist without Grapeshot.
"Ad Nauseam" needs SSG to cast their finishers after resolving their namesake card.
I would be very sad to see SSG go but I believe Ad Nauseam could adapt to its loss by playing a slower, more controlling game and taking two turns to enact the combo instead of one.
As for storm, it would probably be an overreaction to ban Grapeshot. I just mentioned this as an option in case it proves to be too powerful with Ponder/Preordain added to its arsenal. Storm is already quite vulnerable to creature removal, graveyard hate, random hate bears like Eidodolons (both of Rhetoric and of Revels) and Thalia. As long as we don't give storm back any of its banned rituals, it should be fine.
And remember, the control/tempo decks ALSO get to play ponder and preordain to find their hate for these combos. So any ban might be unnecessary at the start
Making a good cantrip that is bad in combo is fairly easy. For instance
Not a Combo Brainstorm U
Instant
Draw 2 cards, then put one card from your hand on top of your library.
The next spell you cast this turn is countered unless you pay an additional 1.
See how that tests, and if combo can still use it, just move the tax up to 2. This way you can't just chain this cantrip together with other spells, and works much better in a shell where you are firing this off with extra mana instead of using it to find immediate plays. If you just need the land, then no harm casting as sorcery.
Just give the cantrip a drawback on other spells played the same turn, and voila! Combo decks can't really use them well.
I think there are a ton of design issues around any card with those effects (even if you added a Thalia esque clause to it to make all other spells you cast this turn cost 1 more). I think the bigger question is if you think that card would be balanced. I suspect this would see Vintage and Legacy play owing to the underlying power of Brainstorm-like effects.
I think Ad Nauseum would have the ability to shift their deck if SSG was banned. They would become a sorcery speed deck, but it could be done with Mox Opals and other 0 mana cost artifacts. -4 SSG, +4 Mox Opal and then you'll need a few copies of something like Everflowing Chalice.
It definitely dilutes the deck, don't misunderstand me, but the essence of drawing your deck and winning after drawing your deck is still there (just no longer at instant speed).
Not a Combo Brainstorm U
Instant
Draw 2 cards, then put one card from your hand on top of your library.
The next spell you cast this turn is countered unless you pay an additional 1.
I think there are a ton of design issues around any card with those effects (even if you added a Thalia esque clause to it to make all other spells you cast this turn cost 1 more). I think the bigger question is if you think that card would be balanced. I suspect this would see Vintage and Legacy play owing to the underlying power of Brainstorm-like effects.
There are a "ton of design issues" but you can't name one? Yes, I think that design on a card is balanced (although like I wrote above, the drawback has to be tested to see if it is enough). It seems silly to me that you dismiss the design simply because it allows you to put a card from your hand back on top of your deck. The interaction with fetchlands is precisely why we want that effect, not a cause to dismiss it. I think the card would be approximately balanced, with the precise taxing drawback to be evaluated in development of the card.
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KnightfallGWUR
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1. Interaction with fetchlands. There are multiple cards on the B/R list that are banned for making games take longer than necessary. Effects that work better with more shuffling make paper magic take longer. Watching Legacy with Brainstorm + Fetch or Ponder and shuffle is a good reason Wizards would be against printing this type of card.
2. Finding a place to insert that effect in standard is not easy. When was the last time we had this sort of effect? Brainstorm was last printed in Masques. Dream Cache was printed in Tempest. The closest they've come is See Beyond which sees no play due to mana cost (essentially trying to be the same effect you're stating but at sorcery speed and for one mana more. They have turned Scry into an evergreen mechanic and I feel they are likely using that intentionally as the mechanic to keep gameplay speed nice and smooth without incentivizing other shuffle effects. There are effects in Standard presently that would allow for comboing with search/shuffle effects that would make this card good and I think Wizards is afraid of that (though Oath of Nissa made it to print).
3. What you've proposed is an instant speed spell. A cantrip of that power level at instant speed is going to be very powerful in formats with fetchlands.
4. I don't think the taxing effect stops any of the problems that Wizard's has concerns about re: filtering and selection. Even if the taxing effect was "you cannot cast spells until the end of the turn," they would likely have concerns about the power level of this sort of card.
Just off the top of the head.
I would love for more cantrip choices and a slightly better power level of cantrips in modern, but I think what you've proposed is likely a better spell than preordain. I think dismissing the card based on power level alone is likely the clearest thing that would happen to a card like this showing up at Wizards HQ. I'm not dismissing your idea that it would be a good add, provide interesting gameplay, or any of that. I do think that Wizards would dismiss it straight away, however.
[...]I do think that Wizards would dismiss it straight away, however.
I was about to send it off until you warned me that my own card design would be dismissed by WotC if I asked them to print it. Thanks for the heads up.
It's not like I just posted it to demonstrate that a cantrip could be built to avoid being great in combo decks while still functional and effective. I definitely posted it here 'cause I thought it was going to print.
I think Ad Nauseum would have the ability to shift their deck if SSG was banned. They would become a sorcery speed deck, but it could be done with Mox Opals and other 0 mana cost artifacts. -4 SSG, +4 Mox Opal and then you'll need a few copies of something like Everflowing Chalice.
It definitely dilutes the deck, don't misunderstand me, but the essence of drawing your deck and winning after drawing your deck is still there (just no longer at instant speed).
So ssg should go and then opal should see more play????
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I've played probably 20 matches of Lantern, 20 matches of GR and GW Tron, 100 matches of Bloom Titan and Amulet Titan (post-ban), and 30 matches of Bant Eldrazi. I have never once failed to put a card in my hand. (I should clarify that this is at FNMs, GPTs, PPTQs, and RPTQs. I have also played way more than that in practice, including probably around 500 matches of mostly GR Tron in practice.)
Now I'm guessing you had Slayer's Stronghold and some combination of 4 Pacts/Titans, but it's incredibly unlucky to NOT get a single card. Yes, obviously it doesn't always get the Tron piece, the Thought-Knot Seer or Eldrazi Temple, the Ensnaring Bridge, the Amulet of Vigor or Karoo, or whatever, but it rarely whiffs (the worst usually being a basic land out of Bant Eldrazi usually). The card is incredibly strong in the decks that play it and I am guessing that if those decks ever became a problem, the card would be examined by Wizards.
That being said, I am completely with Melkor. If the cantrips are as powerful as many do think they are, then there can be future bans at that time. But I don't think that it is necessarily a guarantee by any means that they will push decks too much. Preordain is definitely a start. The Modern format will be much better with it.
*Also I should say that people need to understand the whole picture with cards like Ancient Stirrings. I won a game during the beginning of Abzan Company because I cast a Collected Company that whiffed completely. I was in a grindy game with Twin and after missing on that CoCo, I hit 4 straight creatures, including 2 Kitchen Finks and completely took over. If I had to draw those 6 cards, I lose 100%. That was actually the best CoCo I have ever cast in any form of Magic with Abzan Company, although it was frustrating at that very moment until I drew creature after creature.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I think this is the real power of Ancient Stirrings in decks that can use it. You're finding the one card out of the top five that will be useful soon, and even if you whiff you're getting rid of 5 bad cards. I've definitely cast Stirrings where my reaction was "Well, I'm super glad I'm not drawing any of those next turn..."
Definitely. I think many lower level players would not recognize this.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Explain to us all how Scry 2, Draw 1 is better in its deck than look at 5, take 1 in its. Stirrings will always dig at least 2 cards deeper than Preordain, and even 1 card deeper than Ponder can dig. This is a pure numbers game, you're objectively wrong.
Yeah, this is a really telling line of thought. Ask any Tron player if they would trade Stirrings for a green Preordain, there's no way they'd be ok with that trade.
The problem is that Preordain and Ponder are banned in Modern because WotC has said they don't like consistency tools that are too powerful, and yet Stirrings is a more powerful consistency tool than anything else in Modern by a mile, and is better than cards that are banned. They aren't being consistent here, either Stirrings shouldn't be in Modern, or unban some of the blue cantrips. I would personally prefer they unbanned the blue cantrips.
Which is even more points towards Preordain? You always want to support the fair decks because their existence promotes format health.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
If Ad Nauseam becomes too powerful, ban Simian Spirit Guide (many people already want it banned)
If Storm becomes too powerful, ban Grapeshot (also hits Cheerios)
Blue shouldn't have to suffer because combo decks get to use its cantrips
Oh, and in case you think this is bias against combo my two modern decks are Ad Naus and Storm
Banning decks out of the format is not an acceptable option to me.
What if Ancient Stirrings was a blue card? The exact same card, just color shifted. Anyone think strongly that green should have better card selection than blue? How would people feel about it? Would it be "completely fine?"
Another thing:
We have Serum Visions and Sleight of Hand and Wizards feels like these are fine for the format. They have kept Ponder and Preordain on the B/R list for the time being. If an upgrade/alternative to the presently available options is coming, it may be something in between.
Sleight digs you two cards deeper (choose one of two)
Serum Visions digs you up to three cards deeper (draw, scry 2).
Preordain digs you up to three cards deeper (scry 2, cantrip). Ponder digs up to four.
It doesn't appear that the total amount of digging is the concern (as long as it's up to three), it's the selection order which powers up Preordain vs. Serum Visions.
An intermediate option would be something like this:
U - Sorcery
Scry 1, Draw a card, Scry 1.
This gives more selection on the draw than Serum Visions but the same amount of digging (still three cards if you bottom, draw, bottom).
Alternatively, a reprint of Opt would be a slight change in cantrip environment (in that it's instant speed).
It's unlikely to do much. We already have Anticipate which is similar.
There are very few competitive decks in Modern that play either Anticipate or a 2 mana cantrip effect. Think Twice is probably the most played of the 2 CMC cantrips (that and Remand). Am I missing any?
I think the addition of an extra look on Impulse vs. Anticipate could potentially put us in a sweet spot for the effect. It would be tried out, I think, but you can only jam so many 2 CMC cantrips into your list in this format because of the speed of modern and need to trade your mana for resources rapidly on the first few turns of most games.
I play Peer Through Depths in Ad Nauseam to moderate success. Although it is much more limited in which cards it can grab.
Compared to decks that play Ancient Stirrings, the percentage of the deck Peer can actually grab is much smaller.
Fair point about Peer Through Depths. I was under the impression almost everyone had moved off that card and switch over to Spoils of the Vault versions of Ad Naus, but you're definitely right in the fact that Peer is very limited. I've tried it in a U/W control shell in the past and found the inability to grab a land was too costly, even if your deck is 30+ instants/sorceries.
Will it be too good ? (If so it can be reduced to top 4 cards instead of 5)
Impulse as an instant and being 2-mana instead of one seems to slot better into control decks rather than be "abused" by combo decks (like Preordain) that won't care much for the instant speed and want most (if not all) their cantrips to be 1-mana.
Control decks keep mana up for counters anyway so a good instant speed cantrip should be very playable in those decks.
Could it be reprinted in Standard (or get a functional reprint) ?
It seems that it won't be too good or oppressive there imho.
Not a Combo Brainstorm U
Instant
Draw 2 cards, then put one card from your hand on top of your library.
The next spell you cast this turn is countered unless you pay an additional 1.
See how that tests, and if combo can still use it, just move the tax up to 2. This way you can't just chain this cantrip together with other spells, and works much better in a shell where you are firing this off with extra mana instead of using it to find immediate plays. If you just need the land, then no harm casting as sorcery.
Just give the cantrip a drawback on other spells played the same turn, and voila! Combo decks can't really use them well.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Neither of those bans remove the deck from the format, it just slows each deck down by a turn. AN already isn't a blazing fast deck, my friend plays it as his primary, we have talked about this exact scenario and he would gladly give up SSG to have proper cantrips. Storm would survive, it would probably be better than it is now, it would just have to play Empty the Warrens and use the combat phase. I don't want to see decks straight up removed under any but the worst circumstances, I thought that what they did to Twin and Pod was disgusting. I don't like Storm, but my objection is to Grapeshot, it just feels bad because it is so difficult to do anything about
"Ad Nauseam" needs SSG to cast their finishers after resolving their namesake card, without it it becomes extremely slow and basically unplayable.
I would be very sad to see SSG go but I believe Ad Nauseam could adapt to its loss by playing a slower, more controlling game and taking two turns to enact the combo instead of one.
As for storm, it would probably be an overreaction to ban Grapeshot. I just mentioned this as an option in case it proves to be too powerful with Ponder/Preordain added to its arsenal. Storm is already quite vulnerable to creature removal, graveyard hate, random hate bears like Eidodolons (both of Rhetoric and of Revels) and Thalia. As long as we don't give storm back any of its banned rituals, it should be fine.
And remember, the control/tempo decks ALSO get to play ponder and preordain to find their hate for these combos. So any ban might be unnecessary at the start
I think there are a ton of design issues around any card with those effects (even if you added a Thalia esque clause to it to make all other spells you cast this turn cost 1 more). I think the bigger question is if you think that card would be balanced. I suspect this would see Vintage and Legacy play owing to the underlying power of Brainstorm-like effects.
It definitely dilutes the deck, don't misunderstand me, but the essence of drawing your deck and winning after drawing your deck is still there (just no longer at instant speed).
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Spirits
1. Interaction with fetchlands. There are multiple cards on the B/R list that are banned for making games take longer than necessary. Effects that work better with more shuffling make paper magic take longer. Watching Legacy with Brainstorm + Fetch or Ponder and shuffle is a good reason Wizards would be against printing this type of card.
2. Finding a place to insert that effect in standard is not easy. When was the last time we had this sort of effect? Brainstorm was last printed in Masques. Dream Cache was printed in Tempest. The closest they've come is See Beyond which sees no play due to mana cost (essentially trying to be the same effect you're stating but at sorcery speed and for one mana more. They have turned Scry into an evergreen mechanic and I feel they are likely using that intentionally as the mechanic to keep gameplay speed nice and smooth without incentivizing other shuffle effects. There are effects in Standard presently that would allow for comboing with search/shuffle effects that would make this card good and I think Wizards is afraid of that (though Oath of Nissa made it to print).
3. What you've proposed is an instant speed spell. A cantrip of that power level at instant speed is going to be very powerful in formats with fetchlands.
4. I don't think the taxing effect stops any of the problems that Wizard's has concerns about re: filtering and selection. Even if the taxing effect was "you cannot cast spells until the end of the turn," they would likely have concerns about the power level of this sort of card.
Just off the top of the head.
I would love for more cantrip choices and a slightly better power level of cantrips in modern, but I think what you've proposed is likely a better spell than preordain. I think dismissing the card based on power level alone is likely the clearest thing that would happen to a card like this showing up at Wizards HQ. I'm not dismissing your idea that it would be a good add, provide interesting gameplay, or any of that. I do think that Wizards would dismiss it straight away, however.
It's not like I just posted it to demonstrate that a cantrip could be built to avoid being great in combo decks while still functional and effective. I definitely posted it here 'cause I thought it was going to print.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
So ssg should go and then opal should see more play????