Wizards- WHY did we not put Counterspell in this Standard? WHY? Our lives would be SO MUCH EASIER right now.
seriously, they talk about how it's hard for a card to get to Modern because of Standard, and they have been looking at a Standard that people would fall all over themselves for a card that stops a Vehicle or a planeswalker no questions asked, basically since the day Gideon was spoiled
To make the long story short: Wizards designers decided they had to play the job of the fun police and take out anything that made new players upset. At least that is the hypothesis that is floating around with some on this board.
oh of course, that's how they roll. but I remember my time as a new player in Standard, i would much rather get countered every 5th game than alternate between getting hit by a car or a Gideon every single match
To be frank Wizards sort of needs an affordable non-rotating format that can attract new blood into it along with standard just to act as a buffer so they can handle mistakes they may make in standard. Modern sort of works for that, but because it's been around so long most of the staple cards are way too costly to get players who play standard to step into the format.They either go to other games or gravitate towards commander. It's mostly due to them treating modern like the enemy to anything good and only reprinting cards in luxury products like the masters series due to fear of hurting collectors feelings, even though none of the cards are on any kind of reserve list in modern. It's just idiotic.
However, if they are taking feedback seriously they should start doing more reprints of older cards in standard sets. They already have plenty of good answers in the modern card pool, it's just picking out the ones that are not set specific. Kolaghan's command is pretty set specific, but Path to Exile and Maelstrom Pulse certainly aren't. Neither are double bounce cards from pre-modern or the original counterspell.
They cannot give you PTE in Standard, because it will be a nightmare for the R&D designing the creatures. This is why we do not see much hexproof creatures recently in the new sets.
Counterspell has a similar problem to Standard.
They cannot give you PTE in Standard, because it will be a nightmare for the R&D designing the creatures. This is why we do not see much hexproof creatures recently in the new sets.
Counterspell has a similar problem to Standard.
How would PTE make their job creating creatures any harder? If anything it makes it easier because they can continue to throw nonsense like samut, voice of dissent at us knowing there would actually be a safety valve if it was too strong.
The argument I am giving regarding SFM is actually in relation to statements made by WotC, it is very similar to the justifications they used for banning Mental Misstep. SFM probably suffered a bit from "guilty by association" as it is known to hang around U which WotC hasn't been pretty shy about the fear that Modern would become another format dominated by U coming and taking all of G and B's women. Personally I think that either all of the Genesis ban's are equally safe to try or none of them are, we either do not know or do not care to know. So I am with you as I play Legacy and its a way different format than Modern and have since 2012 been annoyed that this was a standard held in the formation of the format.
I personally don't think unbanning anything really changes the condition of the format. Pretty much anything on the list that anyone discusses has never been format legal would most likely be amalgamated into a BGx deck because that shell is just so flexible potentially some random T3-2 deck gets a slight upgrade but its rather unlikely to break the BGx stranglehold on fair decks. IMO Mental Misstep is probably the only card on the list that if you unbanned it, it would increase the potency of Ux decks as it would give U T0 interaction to protect against things like fast aggro, IoK and TS and which can be respectably hard cast in later turns. For clarity I am only referencing to cards not banned for actual performance violations.
No way does Misstep EVER come off the list, nor should it. It doesn't do anything other than make the best decks better; it would go right into the BGx decks along with every single other deck in the format and would warp the format around it more than probably any single possible unban.
They cannot give you PTE in Standard, because it will be a nightmare for the R&D designing the creatures. This is why we do not see much hexproof creatures recently in the new sets.
Counterspell has a similar problem to Standard.
How would PTE make their job creating creatures any harder? If anything it makes it easier because they can continue to throw nonsense like samut, voice of dissent at us knowing there would actually be a safety valve if it was too strong.
If you follow their design approach in the recent years, you should notice that they attempt to let creatures do more and more jobs on the battlefield.
The Standard decks are dominated by creature based decks, or, balanced by various creature based decks.
Suppose there is a cheap, efficient creature removal such as PTE which is introduced, most of the creatures designed in order to balance the META will be affected. Only the hexproof or good ETB ability creatures left. <- this is not what the current R&D want to see, or want to design.
Wizards- WHY did we not put Counterspell in this Standard? WHY? Our lives would be SO MUCH EASIER right now.
seriously, they talk about how it's hard for a card to get to Modern because of Standard, and they have been looking at a Standard that people would fall all over themselves for a card that stops a Vehicle or a planeswalker no questions asked, basically since the day Gideon was spoiled
To make the long story short: Wizards designers decided they had to play the job of the fun police and take out anything that made new players upset. At least that is the hypothesis that is floating around with some on this board.
oh of course, that's how they roll. but I remember my time as a new player in Standard, i would much rather get countered every 5th game than alternate between getting hit by a car or a Gideon every single match
To be frank Wizards sort of needs an affordable non-rotating format that can attract new blood into it along with standard just to act as a buffer so they can handle mistakes they may make in standard. Modern sort of works for that, but because it's been around so long most of the staple cards are way too costly to get players who play standard to step into the format.They either go to other games or gravitate towards commander. It's mostly due to them treating modern like the enemy to anything good and only reprinting cards in luxury products like the masters series due to fear of hurting collectors feelings, even though none of the cards are on any kind of reserve list in modern. It's just idiotic.
Actually, they've done an excellent job of balancing the needs of multiple stakeholders to ensure that collections aren't utterly destroyed while still lowering the barrier to entry for the format. The approach is measured and reasonable - it's about as far from idiotic as you can get.
To be frank Wizards sort of needs an affordable non-rotating format that can attract new blood into it along with standard just to act as a buffer so they can handle mistakes they may make in standard. Modern sort of works for that, but because it's been around so long most of the staple cards are way too costly to get players who play standard to step into the format.They either go to other games or gravitate towards commander.
You can buy in to a competitive Modern deck for <$500. In the case of decks like Storm, Burn and Dredge it's more like $350. That's about the same price as a good Standard deck. And this is COMPETITIVE MODERN. If you're just starting out you can get a decent budget deck for ~$100.
I know you like to complain about prices but MM17 just lowered them on a ton of stuff and it's a great time for new players to pick up the format. The idea that we need a new non-rotating format is just ridiculous.
They cannot give you PTE in Standard, because it will be a nightmare for the R&D designing the creatures. This is why we do not see much hexproof creatures recently in the new sets.
Counterspell has a similar problem to Standard.
How would PTE make their job creating creatures any harder? If anything it makes it easier because they can continue to throw nonsense like samut, voice of dissent at us knowing there would actually be a safety valve if it was too strong.
The argument I am giving regarding SFM is actually in relation to statements made by WotC, it is very similar to the justifications they used for banning Mental Misstep. SFM probably suffered a bit from "guilty by association" as it is known to hang around U which WotC hasn't been pretty shy about the fear that Modern would become another format dominated by U coming and taking all of G and B's women. Personally I think that either all of the Genesis ban's are equally safe to try or none of them are, we either do not know or do not care to know. So I am with you as I play Legacy and its a way different format than Modern and have since 2012 been annoyed that this was a standard held in the formation of the format.
I personally don't think unbanning anything really changes the condition of the format. Pretty much anything on the list that anyone discusses has never been format legal would most likely be amalgamated into a BGx deck because that shell is just so flexible potentially some random T3-2 deck gets a slight upgrade but its rather unlikely to break the BGx stranglehold on fair decks. IMO Mental Misstep is probably the only card on the list that if you unbanned it, it would increase the potency of Ux decks as it would give U T0 interaction to protect against things like fast aggro, IoK and TS and which can be respectably hard cast in later turns. For clarity I am only referencing to cards not banned for actual performance violations.
No way does Misstep EVER come off the list, nor should it. It doesn't do anything other than make the best decks better; it would go right into the BGx decks along with every single other deck in the format and would warp the format around it more than probably any single possible unban.
Then SFM and JtmS are equally never coming off. This is also why I think people who say "we need a FoW for modern" are somewhat just blowing smoke because we already have a FoW style T0 counter and it is deemed to powerful by people. Personally I don't think it would be any worse than the current situation of IoK/TS has created only it would give non-black decks a option against getting their hand ripped apart. I also like that people in this forum will consistently talk bring up "what evidence do you have for such and such claim" while parroting back this statement as though they any proof. WotC Slams JtmS and SFM way harder than MM in the justifications for why they had been banned at the genesis of the format with the justifications for MM being that it would hurt aggro decks looking to get going on turn 1.
As long as Mid-Range creature decks is the focus of MTG it will be unlikely to see a PTE type removal in standard again, its just to good at what it does and newer players and people who've been playing standard for the last couple years are going to complain and cry about their 4-6c.c. creature going down to a 1c.c. instant.
Yeah I thought the latest modern masters set was fantastic in terms of reprints.
But I do agree they should continue to release modern playable cards as FNM promos like they did a couple years back with Path and Serum Visions
And I do believe they will continue to insert modern cards into Standard sets going forward (ala fatal push)
I don't think that WotC goes back to giving good FNM promo's, they don't want to attract the spikes to the event that they gear toward attracting newer players because it leaves a sour taste in their mouth when they show up with the best deck in standard and completely slaughter all the noobs.
Yeah I thought the latest modern masters set was fantastic in terms of reprints.
But I do agree they should continue to release modern playable cards as FNM promos like they did a couple years back with Path and Serum Visions
And I do believe they will continue to insert modern cards into Standard sets going forward (ala fatal push)
I don't think that WotC goes back to giving good FNM promo's, they don't want to attract the spikes to the event that they gear toward attracting newer players because it leaves a sour taste in their mouth when they show up with the best deck in standard and completely slaughter all the noobs.
Well, we have seen what designing to that standard of player does. 'It doesnt FEEL GOOD to be countered' etc. It leads to Standard.
Yeah, about Mental Misstep, it's one card that it's locked and never going to see the light of Day in Modern, because it would warp the entire format around it. WOTC is never taking this risk.
Instead of unbanning free mana cards, they are going to keep banning some(like they did with Gitaxian Probe or basically the Golgari Grave-Troll)
I actually agree with your "it will never be unbanned" position.
I simply point to the reality that of SFM, JtmS, and MM; MM is by far lesser feared card by WotC. This is just from reading the justifications for why the 3 are banned.
Personally I think that people who go around saying that Modern needs a FoW of its own are either trolling or are willfully oblivious to the fact that Modern has a FoW of its own and its banned and most players believe it is to powerful to ever see play. Personally I don't think it would be any worse than the current situation with IoK/TS and would do the most to help slow down the format as suppression of fast aggro decks is the main reason it is on the banned list at all. This isn't Legacy and we will not have the same issues in which Legacy did when it introduced free counter 9-12 into the Delver decks. Would lots of decks run it? Sure but that is what you would expect of a FoW style card but certainly other decks wouldn't run it and would likely prey on it as it is very narrow.
I don't know if MM fits in with why GP and GGT where banned as they are essentially multiple "free" things wrapped into one card, GP is free cycling and free information, GGT is functionally like drawing free cards in dredge and is a free +1 creature in hand whenever needed. MM is only ever going to be a 1:1 trade at a cost of either 2 life or 1 U.
To be frank Wizards sort of needs an affordable non-rotating format
To be frank, this is impossible. Add another non rotating format and the demand for the cards goes up in turn the cost of all the formats that use said cards goes up.
Why is Fatal Push a $10 uncommon? Because its a multiformat staple.
Either Wotc makes bad cards that cant be used in other formats to keep Standard cheaper, or they make cards that span all formats and make cards and formats expensive.
Wotc is not going to let the presses run freely just to tank prices. As we have discussed, the LGS need something to sell to keep them open.
Actually, Mental Misstep is dumb and broken not because it's free, but because it can be played in literally any deck regardless it plays blue or not.
Force Of Will at least has somewhat of a deck building restriction despite being inherently more powerful. Mental Misstep is rightfully banned because it warps the game around it, and because anyone can play it(Titanshift,WB tokens,you name it), it makes some awkward situations where T1 Goblin Guide or Inquisition might end in a 4-spell stack of Missteps which isn't very fun really.
EDIT: Many players flirted with the idea of Misstep regulating the format(including me) but once you imagine a metagame with that crap in it, it just crumbles into the floor and makes you revisit potential counter magic in future Standard sets. Misstep is just not the right way in this format packed with so many game-changing 1-cmc spells.
Stoneforge Mystic is at about 66% right now in the unbanning poll. Interesting the degree to which people have changed their mind on that card versus just a year or two ago.
I agree with you.
Remember there are couple of people here against SFM unban because it will make Abzan dominate the META...
Anyway...
SFM would increase Abzans presence in the Meta, Lingering Souls plus a tool box of swords/BS is still really good. I could easily see if SFM gets unbanned people could be crying about how its to good because while SFM is not Gofy in terms of in game function and stats it is a far better card at grinding out opponents Push, PTE, and Terminate all deal with Gofy easily SFM not so much and it still nets them the most useful equipment against you. I mean it was broken with just Squadron Hawks and Hawks isn't nearly as good at caring a equipment as a souls token would be.
SFM would increase Abzans presence in the Meta, Lingering Souls plus a tool box of swords/BS is still really good. I could easily see if SFM gets unbanned people could be crying about how its to good because while SFM is not Gofy in terms of in game function and stats it is a far better card at grinding out opponents Push, PTE, and Terminate all deal with Gofy easily SFM not so much and it still nets them the most useful equipment against you. I mean it was broken with just Squadron Hawks and Hawks isn't nearly as good at caring a equipment as a souls token would be.
But then, there wasn't Kolaghan's command running around as a 3-of in the best deck in the format, and two more tier 2 decks running the thing. If SFM is too good in Abzan, Jund/Grixis will become even better decks since they have the best answer.
K-command is even more mana efficient than SFM into batterskull, so I don't know how anyone can justify this position. The commonly played answer is cheaper than this threat, we'll be fine. It's a good card and I have my playset waiting, but it's really not that scary given how widespread artifact hate is.
I'm not even sure it's really correct to call SFM card advantage - who cares about the squire?
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
I see a lot of people complaining about Tron and other big mana decks because they mean that "control can't be good". I play control and the majority of the time it's not those decks that give me trouble...
If aggro gives you trouble than you probably need to reevaluate your control build as those should always be favorable match ups.
I think people error when they point to Tron as the primary issue. part of the issue is big mana decks as Mid-range/Ramp decks are designed to be great against control but it isn't deck x or deck y that specifically make for a problematic situation for control it is the plurality of mid-range/ramp decks Tron, Valakut, even the Ponza deck are troublesome because you can prepare for 1 but not really all and all are regularly played. The same type of hate that hates on tron doesn't really do much against Valakut/titan decks etc... So I think its that it generates a issue similar to the problem dredge created in which the presence of so many variations of big mana decks that require unique answers strains the control decks ability to answer either of them.
Note I'm not on the Tron needs a ban hype train, but it is simply a element of MTG game theory that traditional control loses to Ramp. Tron is probably the most consistent control deck in the format.
K-command is even more mana efficient than SFM into batterskull, so I don't know how anyone can justify this position. The commonly played answer is cheaper than this threat, we'll be fine. It's a good card and I have my playset waiting, but it's really not that scary given how widespread artifact hate is.
I'm not even sure it's really correct to call SFM card advantage - who cares about the squire?
Thoughtseize is even better, enjoy your squire it's a pity cabal therapy isn't in this format though, that interaction's funny.
That said, the squire is not irrelevant; it would in fact be a worse card as, say, a 0/1, kinda like how bob would actually be a lot worse as a 0/1. Random value body is value.
I am still finding it hard that preordain is out of possibility in people's minds at this point.
When you look at the ban list and see how Wotc has removed the top end filtering and hand sculpting cantrips. Its really easy to see it wont come off.
There is a huge disconnect between what Wotc wants the format to look like, and what a part of the player base wants the format to look like.
If they printed a card called Aquatic Stirrings, U, Sorcery, "Look at the top 5 cards, put a land or blue card into your hand." Should that be banned too? Is that too broken in terms of filtering and sculpting? Why would this restriction be any better or worse than Ancient Stirrings? Would it be the same? Why is one totally OK, but not the other? What justification does WOTC have to support this? Because this the hypocrisy we have to deal with when it comes to card draw: green gets amazing draw and filtering, while everything in blue is either banned or designed to be terrible from R&D.
I'd like to add that in no way am I advocating a ban on Ancient Stirrings, but I feel it's disappointing that similar types of cards (look and take with some drawback/restriction) is not even remotely in consideration for blue, especially at least at a 1cmc cost.
Second batch of online data in! April numbers so far:
Dredge - 9.5%
Edrazi Tron - 6.5%
Affinity - 5.0%
Grixis Shadow - 5.0%
Elves - 4.5%
UR Storm - 4.5%
Jund Shadow - 4.5%
Burn - 4.0%
Bant Company - 3.5%
WU Control - 3.5%
Jund Midrange - 3.5%
Abzan Midrange - 3.5%
As expected, the numbers have normalized. Jund Shadow's drop is still the most significant change compared to last month (-7.5%). On the other hand, Dredge (+4.5%), Elves (+3.2%) and Bant Company (+2.5%) results have probably improved the most. All in all, I like the fact that the top dog has changed, even if I personally dislike facing Dredge. Again, these are preliminary results, and even at the end of the month n would just be ~300. Oh well. Any thoughts guys?
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Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Second batch of online data in! April numbers so far:
Dredge - 9.5%
Edrazi Tron - 6.5%
Affinity - 5.0%
Grixis Shadow - 5.0%
Elves - 4.5%
UR Storm - 4.5%
Jund Shadow - 4.5%
Burn - 4.0%
Bant Company - 3.5%
WU Control - 3.5%
Jund Midrange - 3.5%
Abzan Midrange - 3.5%
As expected, the numbers have normalized. Jund Shadow's drop is still the most significant change compared to last month (-7.5%). On the other hand, Dredge (+4.5%), Elves (+3.2%) and Bant Company (+2.5%) results have probably improved the most. All in all, I like the fact that the top dog has changed, even if I personally dislike facing Dredge. Again, these are preliminary results, and even at the end of the month n would just be ~300. Oh well. Any thoughts guys?
Very interesting to see Grixis Shadow the more popular DS build. Perhaps it's the "budget" alternative to having to buy Tarmogoyfs?
Also, still extremely small Uxx reactive deck representation... I guess because most of us have just moved on to other decks. A small sample size for sure, but gives a snapshot at least.
I think that Grixis is overtaking Jund because they get to play Stubborn Denial and Snapcaster Mage - Tasigur and Angler are good enough if you get to play those blue cards. Esper, on the other hand, has to give up Bolt and K-command - which doesn't seem to be what the deck wants right now.
I would like to note the "warping" effect we see in the top of the metagame in response to the increased hand disruption: pretty much every deck on the list that doesn't run 6+ thoughtseize /inquisition of kozilek are highly redundant decks. The only notable exception is UW control, which is going to try and win the topdeck war (spoiler: it gets there more often than not).
Private Mod Note
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
To be frank Wizards sort of needs an affordable non-rotating format
To be frank, this is impossible. Add another non rotating format and the demand for the cards goes up in turn the cost of all the formats that use said cards goes up.
Why is Fatal Push a $10 uncommon? Because its a multiformat staple.
Either Wotc makes bad cards that cant be used in other formats to keep Standard cheaper, or they make cards that span all formats and make cards and formats expensive.
Wotc is not going to let the presses run freely just to tank prices. As we have discussed, the LGS need something to sell to keep them open.
They can make an affordable non rotating format. It largely comes down to print runs and product pricing meeting demand and keeping a good hold on what is popular. Both things wotc has not been doing a good job at with Modern due to focusing on draft products to give support.
The trouble with this argument about affordability is that it's not a single binary argument. Part of it is should the pricing of the format stay the same and that is certainly a resounding no. Another is can wizards make the format cheaper and that answer is definitely yes. The third part is can the market for modern survive if modern got cheaper from mass reprints of highly desired cards, and to that I still say yes it would.
The part that people are wondering about is if lgs that have been sitting on singles stock would survive and would mass reprints cause players to lose faith in the game. My feeling is that things would work themselves out. Wizards would still be maintaining the rarity scheme even through those reprints, so we'd still see 20 to 30 dollar mythic and probably fetches at 25 to 30. But even at those costs you'd see way more players entering modern than there is now.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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They cannot give you PTE in Standard, because it will be a nightmare for the R&D designing the creatures. This is why we do not see much hexproof creatures recently in the new sets.
Counterspell has a similar problem to Standard.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
How would PTE make their job creating creatures any harder? If anything it makes it easier because they can continue to throw nonsense like samut, voice of dissent at us knowing there would actually be a safety valve if it was too strong.
No way does Misstep EVER come off the list, nor should it. It doesn't do anything other than make the best decks better; it would go right into the BGx decks along with every single other deck in the format and would warp the format around it more than probably any single possible unban.
If you follow their design approach in the recent years, you should notice that they attempt to let creatures do more and more jobs on the battlefield.
The Standard decks are dominated by creature based decks, or, balanced by various creature based decks.
Suppose there is a cheap, efficient creature removal such as PTE which is introduced, most of the creatures designed in order to balance the META will be affected. Only the hexproof or good ETB ability creatures left. <- this is not what the current R&D want to see, or want to design.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
Actually, they've done an excellent job of balancing the needs of multiple stakeholders to ensure that collections aren't utterly destroyed while still lowering the barrier to entry for the format. The approach is measured and reasonable - it's about as far from idiotic as you can get.
But I do agree they should continue to release modern playable cards as FNM promos like they did a couple years back with Path and Serum Visions
And I do believe they will continue to insert modern cards into Standard sets going forward (ala fatal push)
You can buy in to a competitive Modern deck for <$500. In the case of decks like Storm, Burn and Dredge it's more like $350. That's about the same price as a good Standard deck. And this is COMPETITIVE MODERN. If you're just starting out you can get a decent budget deck for ~$100.
I know you like to complain about prices but MM17 just lowered them on a ton of stuff and it's a great time for new players to pick up the format. The idea that we need a new non-rotating format is just ridiculous.
Then SFM and JtmS are equally never coming off. This is also why I think people who say "we need a FoW for modern" are somewhat just blowing smoke because we already have a FoW style T0 counter and it is deemed to powerful by people. Personally I don't think it would be any worse than the current situation of IoK/TS has created only it would give non-black decks a option against getting their hand ripped apart. I also like that people in this forum will consistently talk bring up "what evidence do you have for such and such claim" while parroting back this statement as though they any proof. WotC Slams JtmS and SFM way harder than MM in the justifications for why they had been banned at the genesis of the format with the justifications for MM being that it would hurt aggro decks looking to get going on turn 1.
As long as Mid-Range creature decks is the focus of MTG it will be unlikely to see a PTE type removal in standard again, its just to good at what it does and newer players and people who've been playing standard for the last couple years are going to complain and cry about their 4-6c.c. creature going down to a 1c.c. instant.
I don't think that WotC goes back to giving good FNM promo's, they don't want to attract the spikes to the event that they gear toward attracting newer players because it leaves a sour taste in their mouth when they show up with the best deck in standard and completely slaughter all the noobs.
Well, we have seen what designing to that standard of player does. 'It doesnt FEEL GOOD to be countered' etc. It leads to Standard.
Spirits
I actually agree with your "it will never be unbanned" position.
I simply point to the reality that of SFM, JtmS, and MM; MM is by far lesser feared card by WotC. This is just from reading the justifications for why the 3 are banned.
Personally I think that people who go around saying that Modern needs a FoW of its own are either trolling or are willfully oblivious to the fact that Modern has a FoW of its own and its banned and most players believe it is to powerful to ever see play. Personally I don't think it would be any worse than the current situation with IoK/TS and would do the most to help slow down the format as suppression of fast aggro decks is the main reason it is on the banned list at all. This isn't Legacy and we will not have the same issues in which Legacy did when it introduced free counter 9-12 into the Delver decks. Would lots of decks run it? Sure but that is what you would expect of a FoW style card but certainly other decks wouldn't run it and would likely prey on it as it is very narrow.
I don't know if MM fits in with why GP and GGT where banned as they are essentially multiple "free" things wrapped into one card, GP is free cycling and free information, GGT is functionally like drawing free cards in dredge and is a free +1 creature in hand whenever needed. MM is only ever going to be a 1:1 trade at a cost of either 2 life or 1 U.
To be frank, this is impossible. Add another non rotating format and the demand for the cards goes up in turn the cost of all the formats that use said cards goes up.
Why is Fatal Push a $10 uncommon? Because its a multiformat staple.
Either Wotc makes bad cards that cant be used in other formats to keep Standard cheaper, or they make cards that span all formats and make cards and formats expensive.
Wotc is not going to let the presses run freely just to tank prices. As we have discussed, the LGS need something to sell to keep them open.
Force Of Will at least has somewhat of a deck building restriction despite being inherently more powerful. Mental Misstep is rightfully banned because it warps the game around it, and because anyone can play it(Titanshift,WB tokens,you name it), it makes some awkward situations where T1 Goblin Guide or Inquisition might end in a 4-spell stack of Missteps which isn't very fun really.
EDIT: Many players flirted with the idea of Misstep regulating the format(including me) but once you imagine a metagame with that crap in it, it just crumbles into the floor and makes you revisit potential counter magic in future Standard sets. Misstep is just not the right way in this format packed with so many game-changing 1-cmc spells.
SFM would increase Abzans presence in the Meta, Lingering Souls plus a tool box of swords/BS is still really good. I could easily see if SFM gets unbanned people could be crying about how its to good because while SFM is not Gofy in terms of in game function and stats it is a far better card at grinding out opponents Push, PTE, and Terminate all deal with Gofy easily SFM not so much and it still nets them the most useful equipment against you. I mean it was broken with just Squadron Hawks and Hawks isn't nearly as good at caring a equipment as a souls token would be.
When you look at the ban list and see how Wotc has removed the top end filtering and hand sculpting cantrips. Its really easy to see it wont come off.
There is a huge disconnect between what Wotc wants the format to look like, and what a part of the player base wants the format to look like.
Spirits
K-command is even more mana efficient than SFM into batterskull, so I don't know how anyone can justify this position. The commonly played answer is cheaper than this threat, we'll be fine. It's a good card and I have my playset waiting, but it's really not that scary given how widespread artifact hate is.
I'm not even sure it's really correct to call SFM card advantage - who cares about the squire?
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
If aggro gives you trouble than you probably need to reevaluate your control build as those should always be favorable match ups.
I think people error when they point to Tron as the primary issue. part of the issue is big mana decks as Mid-range/Ramp decks are designed to be great against control but it isn't deck x or deck y that specifically make for a problematic situation for control it is the plurality of mid-range/ramp decks Tron, Valakut, even the Ponza deck are troublesome because you can prepare for 1 but not really all and all are regularly played. The same type of hate that hates on tron doesn't really do much against Valakut/titan decks etc... So I think its that it generates a issue similar to the problem dredge created in which the presence of so many variations of big mana decks that require unique answers strains the control decks ability to answer either of them.
Note I'm not on the Tron needs a ban hype train, but it is simply a element of MTG game theory that traditional control loses to Ramp. Tron is probably the most consistent control deck in the format.
Thoughtseize is even better, enjoy your squire
That said, the squire is not irrelevant; it would in fact be a worse card as, say, a 0/1, kinda like how bob would actually be a lot worse as a 0/1. Random value body is value.
If they printed a card called Aquatic Stirrings, U, Sorcery, "Look at the top 5 cards, put a land or blue card into your hand." Should that be banned too? Is that too broken in terms of filtering and sculpting? Why would this restriction be any better or worse than Ancient Stirrings? Would it be the same? Why is one totally OK, but not the other? What justification does WOTC have to support this? Because this the hypocrisy we have to deal with when it comes to card draw: green gets amazing draw and filtering, while everything in blue is either banned or designed to be terrible from R&D.
I'd like to add that in no way am I advocating a ban on Ancient Stirrings, but I feel it's disappointing that similar types of cards (look and take with some drawback/restriction) is not even remotely in consideration for blue, especially at least at a 1cmc cost.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
- Dredge - 9.5%
- Edrazi Tron - 6.5%
- Affinity - 5.0%
- Grixis Shadow - 5.0%
- Elves - 4.5%
- UR Storm - 4.5%
- Jund Shadow - 4.5%
- Burn - 4.0%
- Bant Company - 3.5%
- WU Control - 3.5%
- Jund Midrange - 3.5%
- Abzan Midrange - 3.5%
As expected, the numbers have normalized. Jund Shadow's drop is still the most significant change compared to last month (-7.5%). On the other hand, Dredge (+4.5%), Elves (+3.2%) and Bant Company (+2.5%) results have probably improved the most. All in all, I like the fact that the top dog has changed, even if I personally dislike facing Dredge. Again, these are preliminary results, and even at the end of the month n would just be ~300. Oh well. Any thoughts guys?Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Very interesting to see Grixis Shadow the more popular DS build. Perhaps it's the "budget" alternative to having to buy Tarmogoyfs?
Also, still extremely small Uxx reactive deck representation... I guess because most of us have just moved on to other decks. A small sample size for sure, but gives a snapshot at least.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I would like to note the "warping" effect we see in the top of the metagame in response to the increased hand disruption: pretty much every deck on the list that doesn't run 6+ thoughtseize /inquisition of kozilek are highly redundant decks. The only notable exception is UW control, which is going to try and win the topdeck war (spoiler: it gets there more often than not).
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
They can make an affordable non rotating format. It largely comes down to print runs and product pricing meeting demand and keeping a good hold on what is popular. Both things wotc has not been doing a good job at with Modern due to focusing on draft products to give support.
The trouble with this argument about affordability is that it's not a single binary argument. Part of it is should the pricing of the format stay the same and that is certainly a resounding no. Another is can wizards make the format cheaper and that answer is definitely yes. The third part is can the market for modern survive if modern got cheaper from mass reprints of highly desired cards, and to that I still say yes it would.
The part that people are wondering about is if lgs that have been sitting on singles stock would survive and would mass reprints cause players to lose faith in the game. My feeling is that things would work themselves out. Wizards would still be maintaining the rarity scheme even through those reprints, so we'd still see 20 to 30 dollar mythic and probably fetches at 25 to 30. But even at those costs you'd see way more players entering modern than there is now.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!