Returning one of your sure to die DS or goyfs to your library. I did miss the dual type though so that makes more sense as an option. Do you need to put a card back into your library? The "up to one" had me think I could chose zero.
That would be correct. It seems we both missed a detail, but the dual types and the instant vs sorcery nature of the mana are the salient points here.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Some colors are always going to be better than others, but thats fixable in modern.
In legacy, you'd have to print some pretty crazy things to unseat blue, and mess with the meta to the point thats its not worth it.
Honestly, I'm ok with blue/white being the worst colors in modern if the quality between the top 10ish cards of black (or green or red) vs white (or blue) wasn't as high as it was.
The balance doesn't have to be perfect, its probably never going to be perfect, but in modern atleast, it could be a lot better.
I agree. My thinking with the bauble was more later into the game though. I mean, of course the initial play to get delirium (which architects is far superior for) but also for late game to recur something. I have to agree with you though, for what DS decks need, architect is pretty solid.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Nobans please. Let's see what new cards do. Restore balance, kci, Druid combo... are all about to get going so why ban things at this point? All those decks have huge potential right now.
I think I'm ready to make a prediction for Monday.
JTMS is getting unbanned.
Street Wraith is eating a ban to weaken Death's Shadow. It is what enables the really fast kills and allows the deck to trim down on lands while still contributing to the suicide plan without spending mana, further allowing you to use that mana on a discard spell or removal spell. You're getting consistency, free life loss (never thought I'd be happy to get that) and tempo all for free. Better than free - because you actively want to lose that life up to a certain point. Banning Street Wraith will slow the deck and push it more towards midrange and less aggo/midrange or aggo/control.
I do not think Death's Shadow itself is going to be banned. You do actually have to work to be able to cast it and being in a state where you've cast it means you're living on the edge hanging out at 12 or less life where some decks can take advantage. It's really the overly synergistic and mana efficient cards around it that broke it.
If we can get a broadly competitive control deck with Ancestral Vision to pull ahead on cards, it will keep Death's Shadow well in check as a competent control player can really do a number on current builds of Death's Shadow Jund and Grixis. JTMS will encourage people to try. I also think we'll need a good countermagic made available pretty soon either through the next Standard set or a change in how WotC adds cards to Modern so they can just add Counterspell.
I wouldn't mind also seeing an Ancient Stirrings ban to weaken Tron and Bant Eldrazi to further encourage a blue control deck to thrive, although this thought is not part of my prediction.
I think I'm ready to make a prediction for Monday.
JTMS is getting unbanned.
Street Wraith is eating a ban to weaken Death's Shadow. It is what enables the really fast kills and allows the deck to trim down on lands while still contributing to the suicide plan without spending mana, further allowing you to use that mana on a discard spell or removal spell. You're getting consistency, free life loss (never thought I'd be happy to get that) and tempo all for free. Better than free - because you actively want to lose that life up to a certain point. Banning Street Wraith will slow the deck and push it more towards midrange and less aggo/midrange or aggo/control.
I do not think Death's Shadow itself is going to be banned. You do actually have to work to be able to cast it and being in a state where you've cast it means you're living on the edge hanging out at 12 or less life where some decks can take advantage. It's really the overly synergistic and mana efficient cards around it that broke it.
If we can get a broadly competitive control deck with Ancestral Vision to pull ahead on cards, it will keep Death's Shadow well in check as a competent control player can really do a number on current builds of Death's Shadow Jund and Grixis. JTMS will encourage people to try. I also think we'll need a good countermagic made available pretty soon either through the next Standard set or a change in how WotC adds cards to Modern so they can just add Counterspell.
I wouldn't mind also seeing an Ancient Stirrings ban to weaken Tron and Bant Eldrazi to further encourage a blue control deck to thrive, although this thought is not part of my prediction.
so realistically, you just want bans to help control. say they ban Wraith or even Shadow, say they ban Stirrings, then what? do you really think that Control will jump to the top? Is Tron what is keeping Control from being good? because that would be really sad if the biggest meta call in the format can do that. Say they ban those three cards and it doesn't work, how many cards do you want to ban, decks do you want to kill (because Tron wouldn't survive Stirrings being banned, it would instantly become a bad casual deck. it's already a 4 card combo deck that has to dedicate the majority of the deck to combo pieces and tools to find them. seriously, PLEASE explain to me why people keep hating on Tron, it's a slow multi card combo deck that doesn't even win on the spot.
To be clear, I want Counterspell as much as anyone, i want an awesome tempo-control deck as much as anyone. but Tron is not what is keeping it down. the card pool isn't quite there yet, and the format is to fast, banning cards from a slow deck that relies on a very small number of threats will not help. bans are not how control is going to become top dog, at least not in a format still worth playing. if Mana Leak is enough to get the job done, the format power has been killed to be glorified Standard
What we need is Preordain. the counters we have largely suck, but being able to have a flexible counter suite and search up the one you need would be a huge boost for at least my UB Thing control
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
People keep thinking bans will solve anything at this point. Want to know the real issue? Wizards prints Grim Flayer, then prints Disallow and gets worried that Disallow has the potential to affect Modern.
People keep thinking bans will solve anything at this point. Want to know the real issue? Wizards prints Grim Flayer, then prints Disallow and gets worried that Disallow has the potential to affect Modern.
WoTC is out to lala land when it comes to blue. Oh, right, not lala land, listening too much to "market research". What I wouldn't give to take a gander at their methodology, sample sizes, and population statistics. It's clear they don't really give a two of those flying f's about established players - it's all about the EDH, the new guys, and them creatures, because if them creatures ain't the best thing in town by two miles than all hell would break loose (Hey WoTC you have a five alarm fire raging right now thanks to that idiocy).
so realistically, you just want bans to help control. say they ban Wraith or even Shadow, say they ban Stirrings, then what? do you really think that Control will jump to the top? Is Tron what is keeping Control from being good? because that would be really sad if the biggest meta call in the format can do that. Say they ban those three cards and it doesn't work, how many cards do you want to ban, decks do you want to kill (because Tron wouldn't survive Stirrings being banned, it would instantly become a bad casual deck. it's already a 4 card combo deck that has to dedicate the majority of the deck to combo pieces and tools to find them. seriously, PLEASE explain to me why people keep hating on Tron, it's a slow multi card combo deck that doesn't even win on the spot.
To be clear, I want Counterspell as much as anyone, i want an awesome tempo-control deck as much as anyone. but Tron is not what is keeping it down. the card pool isn't quite there yet, and the format is to fast, banning cards from a slow deck that relies on a very small number of threats will not help. bans are not how control is going to become top dog, at least not in a format still worth playing. if Mana Leak is enough to get the job done, the format power has been killed to be glorified Standard
What we need is Preordain. the counters we have largely suck, but being able to have a flexible counter suite and search up the one you need would be a huge boost for at least my UB Thing control
the format would be a much better place if Tron didn't exist. You say Tron doesn't win on the spot but in many matchups it essentially does. There is nothing a deck like, say, Jund can do against turn 3 Karn into turn 4 Ugin into whatever. This applies to control as well. Tron's haymakers come out too hard, too fast, and are too durable for control to truly stand a chance against it. Tron is a deck that "essentially" wins on turn 3 much of the time.
Many people also believe Tron is an autopilot deck, and that there's not much thinking involved in the decisions Tron makes, as well as the fact that it's a very swingy deck in that it crushes half of its matchups and gets crushed by the other half, means most iterations of Tron aren't fun to play as or against. This is why there's so much deserved vitriol towards it. And while Tron isn't the only thing keeping control down it's definitely somewhere in the top 10 on a list I'd make.
There are no top decks using ssg or opal so why would they do anything to either of them.
He isn't saying ban them now. He is saying they are the most likely offenders in some future scenario when more cards are added to the card pool. He is absolutely correct in that regard. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon but they still clearly don't fit in with Wizards vision of modern and are on a much shorter leash (along with mishra's bauble and street wraith) than most cards in the format.
There are no top decks using ssg or opal so why would they do anything to either of them.
He isn't saying ban them now. He is saying they are the most likely offenders in some future scenario when more cards are added to the card pool. He is absolutely correct in that regard. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon but they still clearly don't fit in with Wizards vision of modern and are on a much shorter leash (along with mishra's bauble and street wraith) than most cards in the format.
We need more efficient tools to answer those early threats based on the cards you mentioned, The META should not rely on the ban list to do the regulation job. It is just my opinion
There are no top decks using ssg or opal so why would they do anything to either of them.
He isn't saying ban them now. He is saying they are the most likely offenders in some future scenario when more cards are added to the card pool. He is absolutely correct in that regard. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon but they still clearly don't fit in with Wizards vision of modern and are on a much shorter leash (along with mishra's bauble and street wraith) than most cards in the format.
We need more efficient tools to answer those early threats based on the cards you mentioned, The META should not rely on the ban list to do the regulation job. It is just my opinion
I agree with you, but it doesn't matter what we think. Wizards apparently doesn't agree.
Just out of curiosity: what is the probability that there will be at least one ban/unban in modern this upcoming announcement? Based on past data and current metagame analysis, what does everyone think?
I think the likelihood of a bone-throw unban in modern is extremely high, almost certain. There was a lot of disappointment last time, and I think wizards will unban one of preordain, jace, or stoneforge.
My pick is still stoneforge; it's just a perfectly fair midrange card in modern as it sits. Not even relevant in a lot of matchups.
Just out of curiosity: what is the probability that there will be at least one ban/unban in modern this upcoming announcement? Based on past data and current metagame analysis, what does everyone think?
I think there's a 9.7% chance of a ban and a 42.3% chance of an unban.
I think the likelihood of a bone-throw unban in modern is extremely high, almost certain. There was a lot of disappointment last time, and I think wizards will unban one of preordain, jace, or stoneforge.
My pick is still stoneforge; it's just a perfectly fair midrange card in modern as it sits. Not even relevant in a lot of matchups.
For the love of all that is holy please release SFM and eventually preordain. Every ban announcement that passes and they stay banned while they continue to push creatures just makes Wizards look more and more incapable of handling the format.
I think the likelihood of a bone-throw unban in modern is extremely high, almost certain. There was a lot of disappointment last time, and I think wizards will unban one of preordain, jace, or stoneforge.
My pick is still stoneforge; it's just a perfectly fair midrange card in modern as it sits. Not even relevant in a lot of matchups.
For the love of all that is holy please release SFM and eventually preordain. Every ban announcement that passes and they stay banned while they continue to push creatures just makes Wizards look more and more incapable of handling the format.
Looks incapable? I would argue and say that they are actually incapable. Format isn't even fit for Pro Tour competition anymore, the massive amount of casuals were complaining that their wallets were bleeding with their banning decisions.
There might be some reprints, but beyond that it's too early to say. Given that it's coming out later this year and we just had a Modern Masters set, it's more likely to be aimed towards Legacy and EDH players than Modern players
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Decks
Modern: UWUW Control UBRGrixis Shadow URIzzet Phoenix
There are no top decks using ssg or opal so why would they do anything to either of them.
He isn't saying ban them now. He is saying they are the most likely offenders in some future scenario when more cards are added to the card pool. He is absolutely correct in that regard. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon but they still clearly don't fit in with Wizards vision of modern and are on a much shorter leash (along with mishra's bauble and street wraith) than most cards in the format.
This is exactly what I've been trying to say. Based on previous bans, WotC wants to steer Modern away from decks that use 1 cmc and free spells to do unfair things on turn one or two consistently if your opponent doesn't have tons of interaction, which is why I think Death's Shadow Jund is specifically in the crosshairs (so to speak).
A good analogy for Death's Shadow Jund is pre-Gitaxian Probe ban era UG Infect: with Probe, the deck was very close in power level to its Legacy counterpart, and could go off consistently very early thanks to Vines of the Vastwood, Probe, Mutagenic Growth, Inkmoth Nexus, and Become Immense. A similar combination of cheap/free cards exists in the Death's Shadow Jund deck, which allows it to take many actions in the first two turns and have tons of interaction via Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek/Fatal Push to go with its cheap threats and free cantrips. The key to that style of deck is a plethora of cheap and free spells; notice Death's Shadow Jund and UG Infect's mana curves.
In the case of Death's Shadow Jund, Mishra's Bauble is what kicks it over the top in the same way that Probe was apparently the piece that made UG Infect tier 1. It lowers your effective card count to 52, gives you a scry with one of the deck's twelve fetch lands, and turns on Traverse the Ulvenwald (aka Death's Shadow numbers five through 8). Based on WotC's Modern ban history, Bauble feels like the safe bet if they ban anything.
if wizards keeps banning cards, this outcry will never end. Street wraith? really? DSJ is a very powerfull and efficient deck, of course, but it existence made control playable, just like the old days of twin in modern. This is not dredge. The format cand handle it. Condemn is a playable card, you know?
On unbannings, id like to see, the elf, stoneforge, jace and preordain unbanned to make the other fair (and unfair decks with preordain) become stronger. Id like to see ponder too, but people is afraid about a blue cantrip breaking modern...
Twin is rightfully locked up with the likes of BBE, SS, and Pod for actually being bad for the format.
I could see them unbanning SFM, I don't think they will since SFM is a highly visible card in Legacy and WotC has stated that they would like modern to be a visibly different format than Legacy which I imagine to mean if its a legacy staple it probably will not see a day off the banned list.
Currently the format seems to fit the desire of a highly diverse format in which you can build any deck well enough to compete within reason, unbanning SFM just helps a bunch of decks that don't need the help more than it helps the decks that could actually use it.
lets hope that we can get some good modern level playable cards that don't have BG in the c.c. We get it WotC the Rock used to suck and it was laughably called the best worst deck for years and you wanted to prove that it could be good, now its leaps and bounds better than anything any other color is capable of. Direct some of that energy to UWR for awhile please.
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KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
In legacy, you'd have to print some pretty crazy things to unseat blue, and mess with the meta to the point thats its not worth it.
Honestly, I'm ok with blue/white being the worst colors in modern if the quality between the top 10ish cards of black (or green or red) vs white (or blue) wasn't as high as it was.
The balance doesn't have to be perfect, its probably never going to be perfect, but in modern atleast, it could be a lot better.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
JTMS is getting unbanned.
Street Wraith is eating a ban to weaken Death's Shadow. It is what enables the really fast kills and allows the deck to trim down on lands while still contributing to the suicide plan without spending mana, further allowing you to use that mana on a discard spell or removal spell. You're getting consistency, free life loss (never thought I'd be happy to get that) and tempo all for free. Better than free - because you actively want to lose that life up to a certain point. Banning Street Wraith will slow the deck and push it more towards midrange and less aggo/midrange or aggo/control.
I do not think Death's Shadow itself is going to be banned. You do actually have to work to be able to cast it and being in a state where you've cast it means you're living on the edge hanging out at 12 or less life where some decks can take advantage. It's really the overly synergistic and mana efficient cards around it that broke it.
If we can get a broadly competitive control deck with Ancestral Vision to pull ahead on cards, it will keep Death's Shadow well in check as a competent control player can really do a number on current builds of Death's Shadow Jund and Grixis. JTMS will encourage people to try. I also think we'll need a good countermagic made available pretty soon either through the next Standard set or a change in how WotC adds cards to Modern so they can just add Counterspell.
I wouldn't mind also seeing an Ancient Stirrings ban to weaken Tron and Bant Eldrazi to further encourage a blue control deck to thrive, although this thought is not part of my prediction.
UBRGrixis Kiki Control
BGUSultai Shadow
GWRBushwhacker Zoo
EDH:
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose
GWU Roon of the Hidden Realm
so realistically, you just want bans to help control. say they ban Wraith or even Shadow, say they ban Stirrings, then what? do you really think that Control will jump to the top? Is Tron what is keeping Control from being good? because that would be really sad if the biggest meta call in the format can do that. Say they ban those three cards and it doesn't work, how many cards do you want to ban, decks do you want to kill (because Tron wouldn't survive Stirrings being banned, it would instantly become a bad casual deck. it's already a 4 card combo deck that has to dedicate the majority of the deck to combo pieces and tools to find them. seriously, PLEASE explain to me why people keep hating on Tron, it's a slow multi card combo deck that doesn't even win on the spot.
To be clear, I want Counterspell as much as anyone, i want an awesome tempo-control deck as much as anyone. but Tron is not what is keeping it down. the card pool isn't quite there yet, and the format is to fast, banning cards from a slow deck that relies on a very small number of threats will not help. bans are not how control is going to become top dog, at least not in a format still worth playing. if Mana Leak is enough to get the job done, the format power has been killed to be glorified Standard
What we need is Preordain. the counters we have largely suck, but being able to have a flexible counter suite and search up the one you need would be a huge boost for at least my UB Thing control
The only bannings that will happen are Mox Opal and Simian Spirit Guide on a ticking time bomb.
They can easily unban Stoneforge Mystic, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Bloodbraid Elf, and Preordain.
WoTC is out to lala land when it comes to blue. Oh, right, not lala land, listening too much to "market research". What I wouldn't give to take a gander at their methodology, sample sizes, and population statistics. It's clear they don't really give a two of those flying f's about established players - it's all about the EDH, the new guys, and them creatures, because if them creatures ain't the best thing in town by two miles than all hell would break loose (Hey WoTC you have a five alarm fire raging right now thanks to that idiocy).
the format would be a much better place if Tron didn't exist. You say Tron doesn't win on the spot but in many matchups it essentially does. There is nothing a deck like, say, Jund can do against turn 3 Karn into turn 4 Ugin into whatever. This applies to control as well. Tron's haymakers come out too hard, too fast, and are too durable for control to truly stand a chance against it. Tron is a deck that "essentially" wins on turn 3 much of the time.
Many people also believe Tron is an autopilot deck, and that there's not much thinking involved in the decisions Tron makes, as well as the fact that it's a very swingy deck in that it crushes half of its matchups and gets crushed by the other half, means most iterations of Tron aren't fun to play as or against. This is why there's so much deserved vitriol towards it. And while Tron isn't the only thing keeping control down it's definitely somewhere in the top 10 on a list I'd make.
He isn't saying ban them now. He is saying they are the most likely offenders in some future scenario when more cards are added to the card pool. He is absolutely correct in that regard. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon but they still clearly don't fit in with Wizards vision of modern and are on a much shorter leash (along with mishra's bauble and street wraith) than most cards in the format.
We need more efficient tools to answer those early threats based on the cards you mentioned, The META should not rely on the ban list to do the regulation job. It is just my opinion
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
I agree with you, but it doesn't matter what we think. Wizards apparently doesn't agree.
My pick is still stoneforge; it's just a perfectly fair midrange card in modern as it sits. Not even relevant in a lot of matchups.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
For the love of all that is holy please release SFM and eventually preordain. Every ban announcement that passes and they stay banned while they continue to push creatures just makes Wizards look more and more incapable of handling the format.
Looks incapable? I would argue and say that they are actually incapable. Format isn't even fit for Pro Tour competition anymore, the massive amount of casuals were complaining that their wallets were bleeding with their banning decisions.
Modern:
UWUW Control
UBRGrixis Shadow
URIzzet Phoenix
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
This is exactly what I've been trying to say. Based on previous bans, WotC wants to steer Modern away from decks that use 1 cmc and free spells to do unfair things on turn one or two consistently if your opponent doesn't have tons of interaction, which is why I think Death's Shadow Jund is specifically in the crosshairs (so to speak).
A good analogy for Death's Shadow Jund is pre-Gitaxian Probe ban era UG Infect: with Probe, the deck was very close in power level to its Legacy counterpart, and could go off consistently very early thanks to Vines of the Vastwood, Probe, Mutagenic Growth, Inkmoth Nexus, and Become Immense. A similar combination of cheap/free cards exists in the Death's Shadow Jund deck, which allows it to take many actions in the first two turns and have tons of interaction via Thoughtseize/Inquisition of Kozilek/Fatal Push to go with its cheap threats and free cantrips. The key to that style of deck is a plethora of cheap and free spells; notice Death's Shadow Jund and UG Infect's mana curves.
In the case of Death's Shadow Jund, Mishra's Bauble is what kicks it over the top in the same way that Probe was apparently the piece that made UG Infect tier 1. It lowers your effective card count to 52, gives you a scry with one of the deck's twelve fetch lands, and turns on Traverse the Ulvenwald (aka Death's Shadow numbers five through 8). Based on WotC's Modern ban history, Bauble feels like the safe bet if they ban anything.
On unbannings, id like to see, the elf, stoneforge, jace and preordain unbanned to make the other fair (and unfair decks with preordain) become stronger. Id like to see ponder too, but people is afraid about a blue cantrip breaking modern...
And puppies will rain from the sky with gold. Reserved list not happening.
Twin is rightfully locked up with the likes of BBE, SS, and Pod for actually being bad for the format.
I could see them unbanning SFM, I don't think they will since SFM is a highly visible card in Legacy and WotC has stated that they would like modern to be a visibly different format than Legacy which I imagine to mean if its a legacy staple it probably will not see a day off the banned list.
Currently the format seems to fit the desire of a highly diverse format in which you can build any deck well enough to compete within reason, unbanning SFM just helps a bunch of decks that don't need the help more than it helps the decks that could actually use it.
lets hope that we can get some good modern level playable cards that don't have BG in the c.c. We get it WotC the Rock used to suck and it was laughably called the best worst deck for years and you wanted to prove that it could be good, now its leaps and bounds better than anything any other color is capable of. Direct some of that energy to UWR for awhile please.