MTG Salvation

Quote from cfusionpm »

Quote from FoodChainGoblins »

I wouldn't exactly call an SCG Classic a "side event." Side events are usually 3-6 rounds at most, at least in my GP and SCG experience.

We call them "side events" because they are smaller events that happen concurrently to their main events. The people who enter are either foregoing the main event or have scrubbed out of the main event. This gives a bump of artificial diversity as you have a higher likelihood of rogue/random decks showing up. This is in addition to the fact that Opens themselves are already much smaller and more inbred/geographically isolated than GPs. "Side event" makes it sound derogatory, but I think it's a totally apt descriptor. And I guess it's more of this moving forward since MTGO data is on lockdown for the foreseeable future. I've been saying it for years, Wizards doesn't actually care about format health, the only care about the perception of format health.

I understand your definition of side event and I realize those factors of them. But, the side events that I've seen are usually 3 rounds, win-a-box or 4-6 round GP Trials for 2 Byes. Outside of those, it's usually just some sort of prize tix for a cap of 32 players for example. Granted, I'm mostly talking about GPs since SCG has managed to elude the West Coast for a bit. But a Classic tournament is much closer to an Open than anything else, from a 3 round win-a-box to a Trial for 2 Byes (which admittedly these can get competitive too). Players in Classics are competitive, yet want to have fun as well. It's not as cutthroat as a GP where you really only have one chance, so you better make it count.

And I don't mean side event in a derogatory way either. The guy who scooped to Andrew Tenjum in that Classic after Tenjum beat me in the top 4 happened to beat me in the finals of a win-a-box tournament the previous day on Affinity (one of the few times I've lost to Affinity as Bogles, a 65/35 matchup for me). I think he was a very smart player, who realized in game 3 that a hand of double Etched Champion, backed with Galvanic Blasts, would be hard for a Bogle to interact with, outside of Rancor. Since he can't beat everything, he kept and I didn't draw Rancor (or 1 Spirit Mantle).

Classics are more a "secondary" event than a side event. I don't list anything not a main event as a side event, mainly because as a Modern only player, I don't get to see the main event as Modern too often. And watching Standard is nearly as boring as watching Limited. I think we'll have to just agree to disagree here, even if I understand your understanding of events and respect it as well.

Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »

I'f that's true than this event tells us that affinity and eldrazi need a ban. Becuase they are leaps above all else.....

It's impossible to take your arguments seriously. Not sure why I'm even bothering to respond.

We all have our bias', I'm just embracing it at this point.

Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »

Quote from idSurge »

We all have our bias', I'm just embracing it at this point.

Everyone in this thread is biased whether they admit it or not.

The problem is when some are soo biased they ignore stats.


(This is not directed at you)

I admit that I am biased.

I will say one thing though. Ktkenshinx has come off as very unbiased, despite me also knowing that no one can truly be so. There's others, but he's the first one that pops to my mind.

Ktk is biased towards his data.

(<3 lol)

What we all need to remember is we can take issue with Decks, but we should try to not take issue with eachother as players. We all just want to enjoy the game.

For my Team Twin friends and anyone else, I also offer this for your viewing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwsxIojAnus

Quote from The Ceaseless Hunger »

Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »

I'f that's true than this event tells us that affinity and eldrazi need a ban. Becuase they are leaps above all else.....

It's impossible to take your arguments seriously. Not sure why I'm even bothering to respond.

No, bud, you insult us and then obnoxiously link one side event with a list, but then say he's ignoring your point when you're clearly not acknowledging the previous data that has E-Tron and Grixis thriving in both the top 8 category and top 32.

"LOOK, SHADOW AND E-TRON DIDNT WIN THIS TOURNAMENT! See, you vocal minorities don't know a thing"

I'm too lazy to go digging it up, but I'm sure someone could link a bunch of tournament results in the past few months and counter you right back, with their point being reinforced with more data than you cherry-picking an event.

Quote from FoodChainGoblins »

Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »

Quote from idSurge »

We all have our bias', I'm just embracing it at this point.

Everyone in this thread is biased whether they admit it or not.

The problem is when some are soo biased they ignore stats.


(This is not directed at you)

I admit that I am biased.

I will say one thing though. Ktkenshinx has come off as very unbiased, despite me also knowing that no one can truly be so. There's others, but he's the first one that pops to my mind.

That's because he almost goes purely off facts and only mentions his biases, if he has one

Posting one tournament result for a non-main event isn't subtle

If by the next two GPs say otherwise, sure, he's got a platform to stand on.

Grixis and E-Tron are trending down, Scapeshift is spiking, and affinity is now around the same meta shares as grixis. What cracks me up is that Affinity is always better when it isn't popular.

Jund just squeaks into tier 2 again.

Scapeshift and burn look like really good meta calls right now

Remember a few months ago when AdNaus took a few top events? I see this all the time and honestly this looks like just what Modern should look like when healthy.

We cannot respect every avenue of attack.

No deck is strong against.

Spell Combo
Creature Combo
Big Mana
Affinity/Lantern (hate overlap)
Graveyard (Storm and Dredge)
Aggro/Burn
Mid-range
Control/prison/tax

It just cannot be done. We will continue at this point to cycle through these various states and if any one or 2 decks are perceived to be best, Control can come in and help push them down.

On the flip side you can also play something we would have called Tier 3 or 4 in the past, and if you have game against at least part of the field can sneak through an event.

Even an Open or GP of 3K + players.

So put on your teams hat, sleeve it up and play.

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

I'm too lazy to go digging it up, but I'm sure someone could link a bunch of tournament results in the past few months and counter you right back, with their point being reinforced with more data than you cherry-picking an event.

No one's cherry picking anything. That's the most recent one, so of course it's being discussed.

But the SCG data is all here. It's the most complete data set available. I look at it quite frequently.

http://www.starcitygames.com/content/decklists/

These are all big events - we're talking ~1000 people for most. And when people make statements that contradict the data, it's fair to call them out.

Here is a query listing the results for all the Modern Opens (~1000 people) for this year, ordered by finish:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?t[T2]=28&event_ID=47&feedin=&start_date=01/01/2017&end_date=07/23/2017&city=&state=&country=&start=&finish=&exp=&p_first=&p_last=&simple_card_name[1]=&simple_card_name[2]=&simple_card_name[3]=&simple_card_name[4]=&simple_card_name[5]=&w_perc=0&g_perc=0&r_perc=0&b_perc=0&u_perc=0&a_perc=0&comparison[1]=>=&card_qty[1]=1&card_name[1]=&comparison[2]=>=&card_qty[2]=1&card_name[2]=&comparison[3]=>=&card_qty[3]=1&card_name[3]=&comparison[4]=>=&card_qty[4]=1&card_name[4]=&comparison[5]=>=&card_qty[5]=1&card_name[5]=&sb_comparison[1]=>=&sb_card_qty[1]=1&sb_card_name[1]=&sb_comparison[2]=>=&sb_card_qty[2]=1&sb_card_name[2]=&card_not[1]=&card_not[2]=&card_not[3]=&card_not[4]=&card_not[5]=&order_1=finish&order_2=&limit=25&action=Show Decks&p=1

If you know of a better data set, please point it out.

Modern definitely has a luck factor into it just based on pairings and the variance of the decks out there.

I definitely thought push was gonna bring affinity down to tier 2

I certainly thought Eldrazi Tron was a flavor of the month deck when it emerged before the Brisbane GP. Ballista really made that deck better.

Affinity demands, unless you have MB game, at least 3 sideboard slots, that's it.

Once you have hate in the event, it dies.

I just think the face of Modern is cyclical now.

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

I certainly thought Eldrazi Tron was a flavor of the month deck when it emerged before the Brisbane GP. Ballista really made that deck better.

I think that's correct. Todd Stevens was playing the deck with Hangarback Walker before Aether Revolt, and it wasn't tier 1 then. Walking Ballista pushed it into tier 1.

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

Scapeshift and burn look like really good meta calls right now

I hope so. It's the deck I plan on grinding this PPTQ season with, although I'm tempted to jump ship for GDS or Grishoalbrand (since I play it well). I got knocked out of the top 8 by GDS in 2 games where he had disruption and quick creatures because I failed to top deck a land in both games (would have allowed me to cast Prime Time both times for lethal). It was a bit frustrating to lose because I didn't topdeck a land in my 27 land deck not once, but twice. I think overall, the main problem I'm seeing at this tournament is the rise of UW Control. I don't think it's a good matchup for Titan Shift.

I still think Elves can be decent in this meta, but I just don't have the guts to prove it.

Quote from The Ceaseless Hunger »

[quote from="Spsiegel1987 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/773038-state-of-modern-thread-bans-format-health-metagame?comment=5359"]
http://www.starcitygames.com/content/decklists/

Wow that 13th place Mardu control looks all over the place

UW Control is certainly knocking grixis decks around. I was playing in the practice rooms with the jund version earlier today, and I just couldn't see anyway to beat the deck, it reminded me of being an infect deck stacked against a lightning bolt deck with removal for days.

Burn seems favorable against UW, beats up on scapeshift, has a good matchup against E-Tron if chalice isn't their to ruin them, a close 50/50 against grixis.

I wanna say burn is a little favored against affinity? I've heard it's close from both players though.

I need to get better with grixis, since I suck with it right now, but man...burn seems good to spike right now.

Elves for sure could be good very redundant, fast, and go wide.

It's weakness is mass removal, and control/combo, of which there is very little.

Quote from gkourou »

@Sspiegel, I shall gently ask you to stop accusing everybody of cherrypicking, even if they are not.
Anyway, at this point, I am 100% certain Modern is doing good diversity wise.
Interactive wise, if UW Control actual top 8's something this will be great news.
Jund DS, Grixis DS, Affinity, E-Tron were the flavour of the last months. This means that the meta is moving in circles. That's a good thing to have.

Nah, I still think E-Tron looks good overall, I do think Scapeshift rising it to hunt down the top 2 decke though. Does UW Control have a good matchup against E-tron, anyone familiar with the matchup?

Grixis and E-Tron are definitely trending down, but they're still the two best decks for sure. The meta is looking wide and diverse though.

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

Does UW Control have a good matchup against E-tron, anyone familiar with the matchup?

I play against it regularly in paper, and it's pretty even. I'd say I feel slightly favored, but ask a UW player, and they might say they feel slightly favored. The games tend to go quite long. Honestly, I feel like the Jeskai Saheeli/Nahiri matchups are harder for ET because they can hold on then combo off, whereas UW has to grind us out. But in a tournament setting any UWx match could easily go either way. My main focus would be winning game 1 in case game 2 went to time so I could still get the match win.

Maybe not garbage, but pure UW 'Colonnade Beats' Control is like watching paint dry for some of us.

Quote from idSurge »

For my Team Twin friends and anyone else, I also offer this for your viewing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwsxIojAnus

That was a magnificent watch. So much so I had to go pull out and hug my own snaps and bolts. The feels are warm and fuzzy.