Price of Progress would be a sweet card to have in modern as an answer to the heavy non-basic decks
No, thanks. It would be totally broken in Modern.
For about a week until Modern has a detox of it's super greedy mana.
Why should every deck in the fornat be forced to be a 2 color deck so that a tier 1 deck can play POP? It doesn't help the format, it makes it worse. Just stop. This is worse than people asking for a dig through time unban.
Woah, you're not forced into two colors, and it's not a tier one deck that would play Price. I think it would be great if decks in the format actually had to chose what they wanted to do instead of simply getting to do everything. I think 3+ color Burn decks are toxic to the format, I think every deck being a shard or wedge is far more toxic and continuously drives us to GoodStuff.Dec A vs GoodStuff.Dec B.
Price of Progress would be a sweet card to have in modern as an answer to the heavy non-basic decks
No, thanks. It would be totally broken in Modern.
For about a week until Modern has a detox of it's super greedy mana.
Why should every deck in the fornat be forced to be a 2 color deck so that a tier 1 deck can play POP? It doesn't help the format, it makes it worse. Just stop. This is worse than people asking for a dig through time unban.
Woah, you're not forced into two colors, and it's not a tier one deck that would play Price. I think it would be great if decks in the format actually had to chose what they wanted to do instead of simply getting to do everything. I think 3+ color Burn decks are toxic to the format, I think every deck being a shard or wedge is far more toxic and continuously drives us to GoodStuff.Dec A vs GoodStuff.Dec B.
If POP was a card, yes, decks would be forced into 2 colors. The format would be so heavily forced into forcing 4x Collective brutalities in the 75 to hate out burn and play crappier 2 colors with less synergy on camera on top of it.
I'm sorry that you don't like shards and wedges, but a lot of decks can't play 4 of's in an entire deck that all do the same thing, modern and legacy don't work like that. Legacy has better lands and more safety valves to stop nonsense like that from dominating, modern does not.
You would kill so many decks and the format would become less diverse
Tron? Unplayable
Scapeshift? Done
Jund? Nonexistsent.
Junk? Hell no.
all forms of grixis? Unplayable garbage
I won't go on
Your proposition is awful and if you feel that shards and wedges are gross and unfun, you're honestly playing the wrong format.
Look at sultai, for example; It's historically the best colors in Magic, but because there's no good removal for fatties like path and terminate, the color can't even exist in modern
I'm sorry, no one on this forum is going to agree with you, most of the pro's will think you have no clue what you're talking about, and you'll probably get some really abrasive reactions and responses from your local gaming stores.
For about a week until Modern has a detox of it's super greedy mana.
Why should every deck in the fornat be forced to be a 2 color deck so that a tier 1 deck can play POP? It doesn't help the format, it makes it worse. Just stop. This is worse than people asking for a dig through time unban.
Woah, you're not forced into two colors, and it's not a tier one deck that would play Price. I think it would be great if decks in the format actually had to chose what they wanted to do instead of simply getting to do everything. I think 3+ color Burn decks are toxic to the format, I think every deck being a shard or wedge is far more toxic and continuously drives us to GoodStuff.Dec A vs GoodStuff.Dec B.
If POP was a card, yes, decks would be forced into 2 colors. The format would be so heavily forced into forcing 4x Collective brutalities in the 75 to hate out burn and play crappier 2 colors with less synergy on camera on top of it.
Blood moon hurts even more and costs only one mana more. Does Blood Moon force people into 2 colors? Y/N.
Another diverse event, but not that much interactive, tbh. Top 8 is great, has 8 different decks, but only 1 clearly interactive one(Grixis Shadow) and a semi interactive one(Bant Eldrazi).
Top 32 has 8 or 9 interactive decks, out of all of the 32, which means only ~30% of the decks are interactive ones. That's not too bad, not too good too.
Thus, we reached a point where it's safe to say Modern is crazy diverse. One problem though is that it's not that much strategically diverse and that it is not that much interactive, which is a slight concern.
To that end, I would fully accept a Stoneforge Mystic unban in August and no bans, but I am not that much optimistic.
NO CHANGES IN MODERN is what we are getting.
This isn't directed specifically at you, but just in general: I'll say it again, the argument for diversity is a fairly meaningless one. We are needlessly warped from suffering massive PTSD after a truly awful and miserable 2016. We can't seem to remember that for nearly the entirety of Modern we had tons of "diversity" in the format, especially down to the T32 levels of any tournament. Even just a few pages ago, it was pointed out that compared to June 2015, we have the exact same number of decks at 1.5% or above, but with much LESS representation of reactive/interactive strategies. Using this as a barometer of format health only tells us that we are better than literally the worst period Modern has ever had, but tells us NOTHING about how good it should be it could be. It leaves us with mediocrity and an acceptance that Modern doesn't have to be better than this, even though we are still mostly overrun with linear degeneracy, big mana, and the top 3 decks still make up an large percentage of the meta.
Hour of Devastation shows us good answers aren't coming and Ixalan leaks tell us that meaningful answers for Modern aren't coming either (up to interpretation, but many effects still overcosted), meanwhile, each new set seems to bring more busted, fast, linear nonsense that will have to eventually be banned. Non-Standard cards aren't entering Modern, so the banned list is pretty much it. "No unbans" is the saddest excuse for complacency and an acceptance that the format doesn't need to be better than it is...
I do have to admit, Twin definitely stopped janky decks from being viable on a friday night. Every new deck being created had to have at least a 40/60 with Twin to be viable in the meta.
I do have to admit, Twin definitely stopped janky decks from being viable on a friday night. Every new deck being created had to have at least a 40/60 with Twin to be viable in the meta.
How is that different from jank deck having to have a positive matchup against Shadow and Eldrazi?
I do have to admit, Twin definitely stopped janky decks from being viable on a friday night. Every new deck being created had to have at least a 40/60 with Twin to be viable in the meta.
How is that different from jank deck having to have a positive matchup against Shadow and Eldrazi?
Modern really is a great format right now, easily the most diverse and most fun format out there. If it wasn't for this format, I would just be playing the occasional game of kitchen table Commander. This format makes me want to build decks and go compete in events.
I absolutely never want Jace unbanned until modern gains the necessary safety valves for it
Jace would either push out every GBx deck and make blue the only interactive deck in modern worth playing, or it'd power up Sultai too much, and make it the only midrange deck worth playing while stomping on control decks to boot.
The sultai prediction would thrill me the most since it'd be the least expensive for me to convert to, but I dislike both scenarios
Pretty insane that they banned those three cantrips in 1v1 Commander; totally different format but I can't see them unbanning preordain in modern if they won't even allow it to exist in 1v1 Commander.
Their hatred for blue cantrips still seems to be very much a thing, I wouldn't expect a Preordain unban anytime soon.
Out of all blue cards Jace, the Mind Sculptor is probably the most likely card to get unbanned, but that probably doesn't mean much.
Take a look at the 1v1 commander page on goldfish and you see that it is pretty much all blue decks. In a singleton format having access to card filtering is one of the most powerful things you can do and they are trying to lower the power and consistency in a legitimate way.
The problem with the format is the 30 starting life, because it suppresses aggro decks which are meant to counter those slow decks.
On the other hand banning Preordain in a format with Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor seems like a bad joke.
I think the 1v1 Commander bans just show which cards WotC dislikes the most, first there were the TC and Dig bans and now the cantrips, in my opinion this can be applied to the Modern banlist to see which cards are the least likely to get unbanned.
The problem with the format is the 30 starting life...
Just curious if you typo'd or if people play with 30 life. We've always played with 40, and that's what the format rules state.
Interesting bans though. If they're busted in Commander, you know they're busted in Modern. All three cards are in my son's Simulgar deck. Serum Visions stock is going up. I just grabbed another playset.
I'd be rather surprised to any changes to the B/R list in August. Given the dumpster fire that Standard has been for the past year or so, I doubt Wizards is interested in expending effort on Modern. No changes seems the safe bet, but given how vocal the Pros have been, it's not impossible that a Death's Shadow ban gets handed out. It does show up in a lot of "fair" decks that run Black. I'm more worried that I can't rule out such a bad ban, than by the actual ban itself, ironically.
There are a few cards on the Banned list that don't really deserve to be there (SFM, Bloodbraid, JtMS) but aren't going to come off any time soon, because of public perception more than anything.
I just want Wizards to abolish the reserved list so we can all play Legacy instead. Then we can play all the Jaces, Preordains, Ponders, Stoneforges, Bloodbraid Elves ect we like
Reserved list is the only reason we have modern anyways
I just want Wizards to abolish the reserved list so we can all play Legacy instead. Then we can play all the Jaces, Preordains, Ponders, Stoneforges, Bloodbraid Elves ect we like
Reserved list is the only reason we have modern anyways
Not happening now, never happening later. Next topic.
I agree that Preordain is not going to happen in Modern any time soon, but that's independent from its recent banning in Commander. In addition to Wizards explicitly stating that cards are analyzed in formats on their own merits (thanks for the citation, GK), there are far more present reasons that would exclude Preordain. Namely, Grixis DS and Storm being top-tier decks and Preordain giving them help they don't need. I know that some of the vocal detractors will view this as a continuation of the so-called war on blue, but in this case, it's actually an acknowledgment that certain blue decks are doing quite well in Modern.
At this point, I wouldn't even want changes. I just want to see how Modern looks at the end of the summer. If interactive decks continue their current trend, I don't think we'll see any changes.
Agree. I'd rather have no changes above all. A Street Wraith ban would be expected from my part because the card feels as degenerate as Probe and in Death's Shadow it just does too much. Grixis DS is the best deck in Modern and pros(LSV and Hoogland among others) have been vocal about Shadow being too good. Following Modern Banlist History, they wouldn't like to chop the head off right from the start, they would want to lower its power level and consistency by banning a core card of all Shadow decks without being Shadow itself. Street Wraith fits the Probe criteria of 'doing too much for too little' and Shadow remains being a thing.
I want to say though, that an unban would a SHOCK for me. Every card in the banlist is a public enemy for Wizards, between past boogeymans and them wanting Modern to be a different animal form Legacy, i don't expect them to unban cards that see play in Legacy such as Stoneforge and Jace REGARDLESS they 'look' safe in Modern. Preordain is pretty much out of question right now with 2 Blue-based, high-cantriping decks among Top Tiers in DS and Storm.
I asked Gabriel Nassif and other streamer that i can't recall his name right now, if SFM could/would be unbanned in Modern. They both said absolutely effin NOT. Nassif told me he would play her for sure in his UW deck and that she would be too strong for the format. I can say though, he seems traumatized by Caw-Blade Standard though...
For me the best direction WOTC could take in August 28th is: No Unbans, No Bans or Ban Wraith. Then you can see where the meta goes from there. Of course, the Wraith ban should be tested upon and actually conclude that Shadow is ok for the format and remains as a competitive force, which in my opinion is making good for the metagame instead of bad.
EDIT: Forgot about something in the SFM paragraph.
If anyone missed it, I consider this line important for future banlist discussions:
Color balance alone isn’t a reason to alter a format, but lack of variety in play experience is. Our intention is to try and trim excess power from clearly dominant decks to open up space for a variety of decks to succeed, not to introduce churn by adjusting the ban list.
So, deck/archetype diversity is more important than color balance perhaps? Huh...
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Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
I just want Wizards to abolish the reserved list so we can all play Legacy instead. Then we can play all the Jaces, Preordains, Ponders, Stoneforges, Bloodbraid Elves ect we like
Reserved list is the only reason we have modern anyways
Not everyone wants that though. I find modern much more interesting than legacy. As much as people complain about how certain decks push other archetypes out such as big mana with control it is in no way as bad as how fast combo warps legacy. Aggro is barely playable in legacy if it is not tempo because you have 20/80 matchups vs fast combo. Aggro was deceptively viable when legacy was less explored.
If anyone missed it, I consider this line important for future banlist discussions:
Color balance alone isn’t a reason to alter a format, but lack of variety in play experience is. Our intention is to try and trim excess power from clearly dominant decks to open up space for a variety of decks to succeed, not to introduce churn by adjusting the ban list.
So, deck/archetype diversity is more important than color balance perhaps? Huh...
This shouldn't surprise anyone. Legacy is in a reasonable state because they don't try to balance the color balance. Modern is similar but replace blue with black.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
If anyone missed it, I consider this line important for future banlist discussions:
Color balance alone isn’t a reason to alter a format, but lack of variety in play experience is. Our intention is to try and trim excess power from clearly dominant decks to open up space for a variety of decks to succeed, not to introduce churn by adjusting the ban list.
So, deck/archetype diversity is more important than color balance perhaps? Huh...
Where is that quote taken from?
Modern is great I just want Stoneforge and BBE unbanned and then it would be perfect. Oh and a Baleful Strix and Containment Priest reprint. Seriously, priest would have been a perfect card to reprint in Amonkhet, seeing as it doesn't even hose the embalm mechanic...
If anyone missed it, I consider this line important for future banlist discussions:
Color balance alone isn’t a reason to alter a format, but lack of variety in play experience is. Our intention is to try and trim excess power from clearly dominant decks to open up space for a variety of decks to succeed, not to introduce churn by adjusting the ban list.
So, deck/archetype diversity is more important than color balance perhaps? Huh...
Where is that quote taken from?
Modern is great I just want Stoneforge and BBE unbanned and then it would be perfect. Oh and a Baleful Strix and Containment Priest reprint. Seriously, priest would have been a perfect card to reprint in Amonkhet, seeing as it doesn't even hose the embalm mechanic...
Possibly from Twitter? Either way, on their official statement on April 24th, they said "In Modern, Death's Shadow continues to be the best deck, but technology like Condemn is starting to emerge, and the format appears to be in a safe spot at the moment. While deck diversity is good, we're keeping an eye on color balance. If there's an easy change to the banned list that could open up more decks in the future, we will examine it when other formats have less pressing needs."
So either they reversed their stance or just ignore their past statements. Both are entirely possible.
Meanwhile, I saw this earlier today and got a good giggle out of it (in the wake of the Commander bannings, attached)
When I hear: "While deck diversity is good, we're keeping an eye on color balance. If there's an easy change to the banned list that could open up more decks in the future, we will examine it when other formats have less pressing needs."
My brain interprets that to mean SFM unban to improve white's representation in the meta.
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Woah, you're not forced into two colors, and it's not a tier one deck that would play Price. I think it would be great if decks in the format actually had to chose what they wanted to do instead of simply getting to do everything. I think 3+ color Burn decks are toxic to the format, I think every deck being a shard or wedge is far more toxic and continuously drives us to GoodStuff.Dec A vs GoodStuff.Dec B.
If POP was a card, yes, decks would be forced into 2 colors. The format would be so heavily forced into forcing 4x Collective brutalities in the 75 to hate out burn and play crappier 2 colors with less synergy on camera on top of it.
I'm sorry that you don't like shards and wedges, but a lot of decks can't play 4 of's in an entire deck that all do the same thing, modern and legacy don't work like that. Legacy has better lands and more safety valves to stop nonsense like that from dominating, modern does not.
You would kill so many decks and the format would become less diverse
Tron? Unplayable
Scapeshift? Done
Jund? Nonexistsent.
Junk? Hell no.
all forms of grixis? Unplayable garbage
I won't go on
Your proposition is awful and if you feel that shards and wedges are gross and unfun, you're honestly playing the wrong format.
Look at sultai, for example; It's historically the best colors in Magic, but because there's no good removal for fatties like path and terminate, the color can't even exist in modern
I'm sorry, no one on this forum is going to agree with you, most of the pro's will think you have no clue what you're talking about, and you'll probably get some really abrasive reactions and responses from your local gaming stores.
This isn't directed specifically at you, but just in general: I'll say it again, the argument for diversity is a fairly meaningless one. We are needlessly warped from suffering massive PTSD after a truly awful and miserable 2016. We can't seem to remember that for nearly the entirety of Modern we had tons of "diversity" in the format, especially down to the T32 levels of any tournament. Even just a few pages ago, it was pointed out that compared to June 2015, we have the exact same number of decks at 1.5% or above, but with much LESS representation of reactive/interactive strategies. Using this as a barometer of format health only tells us that we are better than literally the worst period Modern has ever had, but tells us NOTHING about how good it should be it could be. It leaves us with mediocrity and an acceptance that Modern doesn't have to be better than this, even though we are still mostly overrun with linear degeneracy, big mana, and the top 3 decks still make up an large percentage of the meta.
Hour of Devastation shows us good answers aren't coming and Ixalan leaks tell us that meaningful answers for Modern aren't coming either (up to interpretation, but many effects still overcosted), meanwhile, each new set seems to bring more busted, fast, linear nonsense that will have to eventually be banned. Non-Standard cards aren't entering Modern, so the banned list is pretty much it. "No unbans" is the saddest excuse for complacency and an acceptance that the format doesn't need to be better than it is...
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Their hatred for blue cantrips still seems to be very much a thing, I wouldn't expect a Preordain unban anytime soon.
Out of all blue cards Jace, the Mind Sculptor is probably the most likely card to get unbanned, but that probably doesn't mean much.
Jace would either push out every GBx deck and make blue the only interactive deck in modern worth playing, or it'd power up Sultai too much, and make it the only midrange deck worth playing while stomping on control decks to boot.
The sultai prediction would thrill me the most since it'd be the least expensive for me to convert to, but I dislike both scenarios
Pretty insane that they banned those three cantrips in 1v1 Commander; totally different format but I can't see them unbanning preordain in modern if they won't even allow it to exist in 1v1 Commander.
Take a look at the 1v1 commander page on goldfish and you see that it is pretty much all blue decks. In a singleton format having access to card filtering is one of the most powerful things you can do and they are trying to lower the power and consistency in a legitimate way.
On the other hand banning Preordain in a format with Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor seems like a bad joke.
I think the 1v1 Commander bans just show which cards WotC dislikes the most, first there were the TC and Dig bans and now the cantrips, in my opinion this can be applied to the Modern banlist to see which cards are the least likely to get unbanned.
Just curious if you typo'd or if people play with 30 life. We've always played with 40, and that's what the format rules state.
Interesting bans though. If they're busted in Commander, you know they're busted in Modern. All three cards are in my son's Simulgar deck. Serum Visions stock is going up. I just grabbed another playset.
That does sound like a bad joke to me
There are a few cards on the Banned list that don't really deserve to be there (SFM, Bloodbraid, JtMS) but aren't going to come off any time soon, because of public perception more than anything.
Reserved list is the only reason we have modern anyways
Not happening now, never happening later. Next topic.
I agree that Preordain is not going to happen in Modern any time soon, but that's independent from its recent banning in Commander. In addition to Wizards explicitly stating that cards are analyzed in formats on their own merits (thanks for the citation, GK), there are far more present reasons that would exclude Preordain. Namely, Grixis DS and Storm being top-tier decks and Preordain giving them help they don't need. I know that some of the vocal detractors will view this as a continuation of the so-called war on blue, but in this case, it's actually an acknowledgment that certain blue decks are doing quite well in Modern.
At this point, I wouldn't even want changes. I just want to see how Modern looks at the end of the summer. If interactive decks continue their current trend, I don't think we'll see any changes.
I want to say though, that an unban would a SHOCK for me. Every card in the banlist is a public enemy for Wizards, between past boogeymans and them wanting Modern to be a different animal form Legacy, i don't expect them to unban cards that see play in Legacy such as Stoneforge and Jace REGARDLESS they 'look' safe in Modern. Preordain is pretty much out of question right now with 2 Blue-based, high-cantriping decks among Top Tiers in DS and Storm.
I asked Gabriel Nassif and other streamer that i can't recall his name right now, if SFM could/would be unbanned in Modern. They both said absolutely effin NOT. Nassif told me he would play her for sure in his UW deck and that she would be too strong for the format. I can say though, he seems traumatized by Caw-Blade Standard though...
For me the best direction WOTC could take in August 28th is: No Unbans, No Bans or Ban Wraith. Then you can see where the meta goes from there. Of course, the Wraith ban should be tested upon and actually conclude that Shadow is ok for the format and remains as a competitive force, which in my opinion is making good for the metagame instead of bad.
EDIT: Forgot about something in the SFM paragraph.
So, deck/archetype diversity is more important than color balance perhaps? Huh...
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Not everyone wants that though. I find modern much more interesting than legacy. As much as people complain about how certain decks push other archetypes out such as big mana with control it is in no way as bad as how fast combo warps legacy. Aggro is barely playable in legacy if it is not tempo because you have 20/80 matchups vs fast combo. Aggro was deceptively viable when legacy was less explored.
This shouldn't surprise anyone. Legacy is in a reasonable state because they don't try to balance the color balance. Modern is similar but replace blue with black.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Where is that quote taken from?
Modern is great I just want Stoneforge and BBE unbanned and then it would be perfect. Oh and a Baleful Strix and Containment Priest reprint. Seriously, priest would have been a perfect card to reprint in Amonkhet, seeing as it doesn't even hose the embalm mechanic...
http://wizardsmtgo.tumblr.com/post/162630833904/commander-1v1-banned-update
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
So either they reversed their stance or just ignore their past statements. Both are entirely possible.
Meanwhile, I saw this earlier today and got a good giggle out of it (in the wake of the Commander bannings, attached)
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
My brain interprets that to mean SFM unban to improve white's representation in the meta.