That would totally work. It would hit all the most offensive lands with minimal splash damage to fairer decks. It might need some kind of cost and/or restriction (like Tec Edge but not so limiting), but it would still be quite decent. Also, it could get through Standard!
His suggestion isn't too bad, but not sure if it would be better than GQ since it cannot hit colored manlands (or valakut) and they're pretty ubiquitous. Honestly, what we need is
Land
Tap - add 1 colorless
Tap, Sac ~: Exile target non-basic land an opponent controls. If that controller controls one land that player may search his/her library for a basic land and put it onto the battlefield. Activate this ability only if an opponent controls two or more lands.
The wording may need more precision, but the gist is there. It prevents tron from ever coming online, but it isn't too stifling to fair decks since they'll always have at least 2 lands in play (for the most part). It also hits every problem non-basic in the format. The only thing that gets around this is the double eldrazi temple opening into TKS, but I think that's an acceptable part of the card because you don't want it to be too too good against fairer decks.
Yay/Nay?
PS: It exiles to prevent LftL/Regrowth (E. Wit, etc.) and other GY shenanigans.
The problem with that line of thought is that SFM is a really risky card to play in DnT in modern because a lynchpin of the archetype is Leonin Arbiter and him and SFM do not get along at all. SFM is what Mardu mid-range needs to make a run at T1, imho. It's a safe card to unban as is Jace. Ux control decks are abysmal and Jace in general will not be close to too good in Modern. He'll be a fine addition as a 2 of for control giving the deck a better late-game (which it needs imho), but a real liability a lot of the time.
Look at that top 8 - 3 Affinity; Jace is horrible in this MU. Taking Turns? No, just no. You don't tap out on T4 against this deck as Ux based decks, plus, this is a horrendous MU and Jace doesn't do anything here. The aether vial decks..., Jace is going to be a 4 mana brainstorm much of the time, but it's not absolutely awful in small numbers if you can navigate the game a certain way. Eldrazi Tron - Ya...this ain't the MU you want more than 2 Jace's either. Again, not the worst, but not spectacular. Burn -...don't make me laugh.
So yeah, really the only decks in modern you actively want Jace against are the various mid-range decks, other control decks, and slower combo decks where you can maneuver the game to a point where fate-sealing is a viable option. You absolutely do not want him against decks like Living End, Dredge, Zoo/low to the ground decks, etc.
Modern is a vastly different format than Legacy in terms of what's played and what options U has. There are hardly any true aggro decks in Legacy (your BTE, Bushwhacker, Burn, Affinity, etc. decks), U counters are terrible in comparison, and traditionally Jace has been terrible against big mana/ramp decks. That pretty much sums up a lot of Modern. Jace is great when you can back him up with FoW or you play against non-combo decks with 10-12 creatures.
Imho, Liliana is a way better card in Modern than Jace will ever be and Liliana is fine.
Modern is quite healthy now. But, I could see some cards being on a watchlist.
To Ban:
Aether Vial (Legacy playable, fast mana, cheats stuff into play)
Mox Opal (fast mana, enables turn 3 wins)
Simian Spirit Guide (fast mana, enables turn 3 wins)
Snapcaster Mage (Legacy playable, overall power level, if other efficient creatures like BBE and Stoneforge are banned, it doesn't quite make sense this should be legal)
To Unban:
Stoneforge Mystic (only if a swap with Aether Vial -- otherwise death & taxes becomes too strong)
Bloodbraid Elf (fairly safe I think, not Legacy playable, RG aggro is absent from metagame, modern staple, I imagine it will get unbanned soon)
Splinter Twin (could be a swap w/ Snapcaster)
Birthing Pod (power level much different from CoCo?)
Not saying these cards should be banned/unbanned, just that they are probably or should be on a watchlist.
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"I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame."
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
Modern is quite healthy now. But, I could see some cards being on a watchlist.
To Ban:
Aether Vial (Legacy playable, fast mana, cheats stuff into play)
Mox Opal (fast mana, enables turn 3 wins)
Simian Spirit Guide (fast mana, enables turn 3 wins)
Snapcaster Mage (Legacy playable, overall power level, if other efficient creatures like BBE and Stoneforge are banned, it doesn't quite make sense this should be legal)
To Unban:
Stoneforge Mystic (only if a swap with Aether Vial -- otherwise death & taxes becomes too strong)
Bloodbraid Elf (fairly safe I think, not Legacy playable, RG aggro is absent from metagame, modern staple, I imagine it will get unbanned soon)
Splinter Twin (could be a swap w/ Snapcaster)
Birthing Pod (power level much different from CoCo?)
Not saying these cards should be banned/unbanned, just that they are probably or should be on a watchlist.
If you banned Snapcaster Mage there would be literally 0 reason to ever play blue in Modern. Aether Vial is really not a problem. SSG and Opal are definitely cards that do bannable things, but it will take them being a key part of a busted combo deck for it to happen.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Guy says ban Snapcaster Mage and unban Pod. Channeling my Ari Lax, no one should listen to this guy as he has no idea what he's talking about. Ok, that out of the way, if Pod is ever unbanned it instantly becomes #1 deck in the format. The card is busted in a format like Modern.
My bones shiver with how good the card would be with Rallier and all of the new cards printed since it was banned.
unbanning sfm could help not only W but U as well since uw control could get a cool toy. there are really no reasons to have sfm banned since years but it is still there
jace is a cancerous card, it would not help blue, we should avoid it.
To Ban:
Snapcaster Mage (Legacy playable, overall power level, if other efficient creatures like BBE and Stoneforge are banned, it doesn't quite make sense this should be legal)
Snapcaster Mage is what holds all of the blue Based Control decks and a true policeman for the format. If anything, those decks could get a little bit better, not worse.
There is a chance Snapcaster Mage was under scrutiny during the Splinter Twin era(in fact Reid Duke has said so), but it's completely absurd to say that it is now. Card is as safe Tarmogoyf is. Meaning 100% safe.
I agree 100%. But speaking of Tarmogoyf, has that card's hold on Modern passed? It didn't have a single copy in the top 8 and was largely absent from the top 32. Is this thing just not well positioned for the current meta?
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
I wonder if unbanning Stoneforge and Jace are what Mardu and Sultai respectively need to become actual contenders in the upper tiers, which would be nice right? Wasn't the main risk Abzan Midrange, which has been going down steadily for the last 5 months? I could see the counterargument for Jace given WU Control's "recent" upticks but hey, Ux Control in general is still in the ~7% range.
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Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
To Ban:
Snapcaster Mage (Legacy playable, overall power level, if other efficient creatures like BBE and Stoneforge are banned, it doesn't quite make sense this should be legal)
Snapcaster Mage is what holds all of the blue Based Control decks and a true policeman for the format. If anything, those decks could get a little bit better, not worse.
There is a chance Snapcaster Mage was under scrutiny during the Splinter Twin era(in fact Reid Duke has said so), but it's completely absurd to say that it is now. Card is as safe Tarmogoyf is. Meaning 100% safe.
I agree 100%. But speaking of Tarmogoyf, has that card's hold on Modern passed? It didn't have a single copy in the top 8 and was largely absent from the top 32. Is this thing just not well positioned for the current meta?
I think it's Fatal Push's fault.
Grixis Shadow is just the better variation to play, because it still plays 1 mana creatures that are immune to Fatal Push, as opposed to Jund Shadow which you can dismantle with pushing it. Of course, there is a downside in you playing DelveCreatures, which constrints building limitations, but this is NOT that huge of a downside because it holds otherusesas well.
That's a good point. Fatal Push (especially with snappy) has changed the format a lot. We might be witnessing a rotation in the meta from Tarmogoyf as the cheap beater to Death's Shadow and/or Delve creatures as the cheap beaters.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
if the question is are the colors better now just because the meta changed the answer is no. None of the cards have changed people just made meta calls. Couple light tweaks from decks and 5 decks out of that top 8 stand no chance. You will now see decks packing sweepers (colorless in the case of ds) and hatebears/affinity go away for awhile again.
2) A Mono W hatebears making it to the final and a W based splasing G hatebears deck making it to the GP Vegas Top 8
Is colour balance a little bit better given those two facts now? Or will Wizards consider the double W based top 8 just an outlier?
If they have an excuse to not have to test or think about the format then they are going to use it. I almost assure you they will mention the double hatebears GP as a reason for no unbans next announcement. It's a flash in the pan when people don't pack pyroclasm type effects. The deck will be gone for the foreseeable future; it just isn't consistent enough. Also SFM doesn't even slot into those decks because they rely heavily on the leonin arbiter mana denial plan. It's what makes the deck work. But they will ignore that and just say "modern's fine!" if they even care to address the format at all this time.
I do really really like that wasteland 2.0 being discussed. It answers all the problem cards without being debilitating to the decks that need help. Here's hoping wizards somehow sees the card and realizes it would be completely underwhelming in standard and a HUUUGE benefit to modern.
So here's my problem. Grixis shadow is the best deck in modern, and from a technical standpoint it is undeniably blue. It plays blue creatures, blue spells, and islands that produce blue mana. Just because the deck ''doesn't feel blue''(I'd still argue it does) doesn't mean it isn't blue from a mechanical standpoint and that it can't cast blue spells.
So when someone says that Jace should get unbanned, one of the best cards ever printed and probably the best pw in the game, even though the best deck in the format plays blue, I have a hard time taking them seriously. When someone says that we need better blue countermagic, even though the best deck in the format already plays one mana cancels, I have a hard time taking them seriously. You can't just introduce great blue cards into the format, when the best deck already plays blue. It could end up being a disaster.
I don't disagree that DSGrixis is a blue deck. But you do understand that Jace has absolutely no place in DSGrixis right?
You should explain why the best Walker ever printed wouldn't fit into DS? Is brainstorming turn after turn something that would cause the deck to collapse? I play Grixis Shadow and IMO some number would see play as the deck already has the back up plan of hard casting 5 drops if need be and Jace is probably the best mid-range value engine ever printed.
you really have to ask why Jace wouldn't go In death shadow, really? Are you sure you play it?
What 19-20 land decks run 4 drops? Cast without fast mana or delve?
yes I play the deck and hitting 4 lands isn't a normally a issue given all of the cantrips. 19-20 + 8 cantrips equals something like 24 lands when you factor in the +.5 land per cantrip unless your going to imply that this well established mathematical aspect of deck building doesn't pertain to Grixis Shadow.
So here's my problem. Grixis shadow is the best deck in modern, and from a technical standpoint it is undeniably blue. It plays blue creatures, blue spells, and islands that produce blue mana. Just because the deck ''doesn't feel blue''(I'd still argue it does) doesn't mean it isn't blue from a mechanical standpoint and that it can't cast blue spells.
So when someone says that Jace should get unbanned, one of the best cards ever printed and probably the best pw in the game, even though the best deck in the format plays blue, I have a hard time taking them seriously. When someone says that we need better blue countermagic, even though the best deck in the format already plays one mana cancels, I have a hard time taking them seriously. You can't just introduce great blue cards into the format, when the best deck already plays blue. It could end up being a disaster.
I don't disagree that DSGrixis is a blue deck. But you do understand that Jace has absolutely no place in DSGrixis right?
You should explain why the best Walker ever printed wouldn't fit into DS? Is brainstorming turn after turn something that would cause the deck to collapse? I play Grixis Shadow and IMO some number would see play as the deck already has the back up plan of hard casting 5 drops if need be and Jace is probably the best mid-range value engine ever printed.
you really have to ask why Jace wouldn't go In death shadow, really? Are you sure you play it?
What 19-20 land decks run 4 drops? Cast without fast mana or delve?
yes I play the deck and hitting 4 lands isn't a normally a issue given all of the cantrips. 19-20 + 8 cantrips equals something like 24 lands when you factor in the +.5 land per cantrip unless your going to imply that this well established mathematical aspect of deck building doesn't pertain to Grixis Shadow.
Actually there is a mathematical guide line to what your highest curve should be In a deck, In relation to how many lands you run. and Jace doesn't fit Grixis shadow.
Modern is quite healthy now. But, I could see some cards being on a watchlist.
To Ban:
Aether Vial (Legacy playable, fast mana, cheats stuff into play)
Mox Opal (fast mana, enables turn 3 wins)
Simian Spirit Guide (fast mana, enables turn 3 wins)
Snapcaster Mage (Legacy playable, overall power level, if other efficient creatures like BBE and Stoneforge are banned, it doesn't quite make sense this should be legal)
To Unban:
Stoneforge Mystic (only if a swap with Aether Vial -- otherwise death & taxes becomes too strong)
Bloodbraid Elf (fairly safe I think, not Legacy playable, RG aggro is absent from metagame, modern staple, I imagine it will get unbanned soon)
Splinter Twin (could be a swap w/ Snapcaster)
Birthing Pod (power level much different from CoCo?)
Not saying these cards should be banned/unbanned, just that they are probably or should be on a watchlist.
Birthing Pod(power level much different from CoCo?).....
I am assuming you haven't played Modern for very long because Pod is like a entire order of magnitude more powerful than CoCo, not even close.
Meh I wouldn't be too sure about that. Cards like CoCo fall into the "they only ever get better over time" blanket that both pod and GSZ fall into. It's not at that power level YET, but as new critters are pinted and new decks are designed to abuse it, it may also get the ban hammer for the exact same reason the others are banned.
I don't disagree that DSGrixis is a blue deck. But you do understand that Jace has absolutely no place in DSGrixis right?
You should explain why the best Walker ever printed wouldn't fit into DS? Is brainstorming turn after turn something that would cause the deck to collapse? I play Grixis Shadow and IMO some number would see play as the deck already has the back up plan of hard casting 5 drops if need be and Jace is probably the best mid-range value engine ever printed.
you really have to ask why Jace wouldn't go In death shadow, really? Are you sure you play it?
What 19-20 land decks run 4 drops? Cast without fast mana or delve?
yes I play the deck and hitting 4 lands isn't a normally a issue given all of the cantrips. 19-20 + 8 cantrips equals something like 24 lands when you factor in the +.5 land per cantrip unless your going to imply that this well established mathematical aspect of deck building doesn't pertain to Grixis Shadow.
Actually there is a mathematical guide line to what your highest curve should be In a deck, In relation to how many lands you run. and Jace doesn't fit Grixis shadow.
I don't disagree that DSGrixis is a blue deck. But you do understand that Jace has absolutely no place in DSGrixis right?
You should explain why the best Walker ever printed wouldn't fit into DS? Is brainstorming turn after turn something that would cause the deck to collapse? I play Grixis Shadow and IMO some number would see play as the deck already has the back up plan of hard casting 5 drops if need be and Jace is probably the best mid-range value engine ever printed.
you really have to ask why Jace wouldn't go In death shadow, really? Are you sure you play it?
What 19-20 land decks run 4 drops? Cast without fast mana or delve?
yes I play the deck and hitting 4 lands isn't a normally a issue given all of the cantrips. 19-20 + 8 cantrips equals something like 24 lands when you factor in the +.5 land per cantrip unless your going to imply that this well established mathematical aspect of deck building doesn't pertain to Grixis Shadow.
Actually there is a mathematical guide line to what your highest curve should be In a deck, In relation to how many lands you run. and Jace doesn't fit Grixis shadow.
Nor does it fit its gameplan.
First 24 is very close to the needed 26 needed to run 3 4cc spells and I would imagine that a deck like Grixis Shadow would only want 1-2 putting it at closer to 24 than 26.
Again how would brainstorming every turn in a attrition deck be bad? how would fate sealing your opponents draw step in top deck wars would be bad? Jace would see play in every U deck that isn't running some wonky card intensive combo and DS would easily accommodate some number of him likely 1 of.
Now if your done asserting things with absolutely nothing to support your assumption thanks.
You should explain why the best Walker ever printed wouldn't fit into DS? Is brainstorming turn after turn something that would cause the deck to collapse? I play Grixis Shadow and IMO some number would see play as the deck already has the back up plan of hard casting 5 drops if need be and Jace is probably the best mid-range value engine ever printed.
you really have to ask why Jace wouldn't go In death shadow, really? Are you sure you play it?
What 19-20 land decks run 4 drops? Cast without fast mana or delve?
yes I play the deck and hitting 4 lands isn't a normally a issue given all of the cantrips. 19-20 + 8 cantrips equals something like 24 lands when you factor in the +.5 land per cantrip unless your going to imply that this well established mathematical aspect of deck building doesn't pertain to Grixis Shadow.
Actually there is a mathematical guide line to what your highest curve should be In a deck, In relation to how many lands you run. and Jace doesn't fit Grixis shadow.
Nor does it fit its gameplan.
Jace fits every game plan.
Just like the predictions many people made about Ancestral Vision. I mean every deck wants to draw 3 cards for 1 mana, right?
you really have to ask why Jace wouldn't go In death shadow, really? Are you sure you play it?
What 19-20 land decks run 4 drops? Cast without fast mana or delve?
yes I play the deck and hitting 4 lands isn't a normally a issue given all of the cantrips. 19-20 + 8 cantrips equals something like 24 lands when you factor in the +.5 land per cantrip unless your going to imply that this well established mathematical aspect of deck building doesn't pertain to Grixis Shadow.
Actually there is a mathematical guide line to what your highest curve should be In a deck, In relation to how many lands you run. and Jace doesn't fit Grixis shadow.
Nor does it fit its gameplan.
Jace fits every game plan.
Just like the predictions many people made about Ancestral Vision. I mean every deck wants to draw 3 cards for 1 mana, right?
Wait four more turns doesn't fit as well as "I have taken care of your hand with discard and now I will fatesteal to lock you out of the game" or "I'm running a greedy amount of fetches to draw 3 cards every turn." or even "I bounce your combo guy/big beater I can't push. Swing for Lethal."
Modern is quite healthy now. But, I could see some cards being on a watchlist.
To Ban:
Aether Vial (Legacy playable, fast mana, cheats stuff into play)
Mox Opal (fast mana, enables turn 3 wins)
Simian Spirit Guide (fast mana, enables turn 3 wins)
Snapcaster Mage (Legacy playable, overall power level, if other efficient creatures like BBE and Stoneforge are banned, it doesn't quite make sense this should be legal)
To Unban:
Stoneforge Mystic (only if a swap with Aether Vial -- otherwise death & taxes becomes too strong)
Bloodbraid Elf (fairly safe I think, not Legacy playable, RG aggro is absent from metagame, modern staple, I imagine it will get unbanned soon)
Splinter Twin (could be a swap w/ Snapcaster)
Birthing Pod (power level much different from CoCo?)
Not saying these cards should be banned/unbanned, just that they are probably or should be on a watchlist.
Birthing Pod(power level much different from CoCo?).....
I am assuming you haven't played Modern for very long because Pod is like a entire order of magnitude more powerful than CoCo, not even close.
Actually I was playing Modern often (once or twice a week) when BBE, Pod and Twin (and Seething Song) were still legal. Coco hadn't been printed at that time. This is why I raised the question of if Coco is as powerful as Pod.
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"I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame."
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
Modern is quite healthy now. But, I could see some cards being on a watchlist.
To Ban:
Aether Vial (Legacy playable, fast mana, cheats stuff into play)
Mox Opal (fast mana, enables turn 3 wins)
Simian Spirit Guide (fast mana, enables turn 3 wins)
Snapcaster Mage (Legacy playable, overall power level, if other efficient creatures like BBE and Stoneforge are banned, it doesn't quite make sense this should be legal)
To Unban:
Stoneforge Mystic (only if a swap with Aether Vial -- otherwise death & taxes becomes too strong)
Bloodbraid Elf (fairly safe I think, not Legacy playable, RG aggro is absent from metagame, modern staple, I imagine it will get unbanned soon)
Splinter Twin (could be a swap w/ Snapcaster)
Birthing Pod (power level much different from CoCo?)
Not saying these cards should be banned/unbanned, just that they are probably or should be on a watchlist.
Birthing Pod(power level much different from CoCo?).....
I am assuming you haven't played Modern for very long because Pod is like a entire order of magnitude more powerful than CoCo, not even close.
Actually I was playing Modern often (once or twice a week) when BBE, Pod and Twin (and Seething Song) were still legal. Coco hadn't been printed at that time. This is why I raised the question of if Coco is as powerful as Pod.
You can wiff with CoCo or just hit irrelevant creatures like mana dorks that don't combo, etc....Pod is a repeatable tutor that lets you pick the exact best option out of your deck. Pod invalidated all other fair creature decks and made aggro decks like burn, zoo, and infect unplayable; CoCo isn't invalidating any other strategies.
Actually I was playing Modern often (once or twice a week) when BBE, Pod and Twin (and Seething Song) were still legal. Coco hadn't been printed at that time. This is why I raised the question of if Coco is as powerful as Pod.
Well it's not and it isn't even close. CC is in no way an issue at the moment but we are way closer to that being banned then pod being unbanned because the latter is never going to happen.
You should explain why the best Walker ever printed wouldn't fit into DS? Is brainstorming turn after turn something that would cause the deck to collapse? I play Grixis Shadow and IMO some number would see play as the deck already has the back up plan of hard casting 5 drops if need be and Jace is probably the best mid-range value engine ever printed.
you really have to ask why Jace wouldn't go In death shadow, really? Are you sure you play it?
What 19-20 land decks run 4 drops? Cast without fast mana or delve?
yes I play the deck and hitting 4 lands isn't a normally a issue given all of the cantrips. 19-20 + 8 cantrips equals something like 24 lands when you factor in the +.5 land per cantrip unless your going to imply that this well established mathematical aspect of deck building doesn't pertain to Grixis Shadow.
Actually there is a mathematical guide line to what your highest curve should be In a deck, In relation to how many lands you run. and Jace doesn't fit Grixis shadow.
Nor does it fit its gameplan.
First 24 is very close to the needed 26 needed to run 3 4cc spells and I would imagine that a deck like Grixis Shadow would only want 1-2 putting it at closer to 24 than 26.
Again how would brainstorming every turn in a attrition deck be bad? how would fate sealing your opponents draw step in top deck wars would be bad? Jace would see play in every U deck that isn't running some wonky card intensive combo and DS would easily accommodate some number of him likely 1 of.
Now if your done asserting things with absolutely nothing to support your assumption thanks.
mayyybe a 1 of with 20 land, in the sideboard. but your original post made it sound like a top tier deck shouldnt get help such as jace. when jace would more than likely help other decks than grixis shadow.
shadow deck wants to hurt itself and win fast. jace takes turns to win. its a contradictory strategy. and it would way more likely see play in a grixis control deck than a shadow deck.
either way in my testing, jace is feeling underwhelming against the top decks atm. its sfm who is performing quite well.
2 Hatebear decks reach the top 8 and now SFM is off the table? Hatebears/Death and Taxes have been fairly underwhelming, solid tier 2/3 decks for a very, very long time
Abzan's so top tier that it's 2% of the meta and only had decent results in an early 2017 open/classic where Tillerson lost to AD Nasuem in the finals?
Jace is just too dangerous. Period. He's also not a fun card to face, not thats a reason to not unban something. The financial risk of him being rebanned would possibly be one of the most disastrous moves in Magic's history. Could you imagine if a 600 dollar playset were banned? He would need several reprints to reach stable prices like Goyf has.
Preordain is not safe to unban, and I think the emergence of Grixis will probably scare WOTC to pull that trigger several years down the road even if Shadow decks were to be banned in August.
SFM and BBE should be looked at for unbans
WOTC really needs to introduce a powerful land destruction card that wouldn't damage standard. I'm looking at it more and more, and I'm seeing big mana decks have a huge strangle-hold on modern. Everyone's looking at Grixis, but the more I look at it, the more I'm convinced it has to do with cheating mana for huge threats--Tron lands/Temple.
Shadow decks struggle against the more fair, interactive decks, but why the hell would anyone play a fair deck when they have lousy matchups against big mana decks, while also being stretched too thin to have answers for decks like dredge, company, humans and Affinity? Seriously, if you're a die-hard competitive, you're better off playing a linear, solitaire deck that relies more on doing your own thing and just hoping not to see a blowout hate card.
These combo/linear decks are less likely to fall on their face twice in a row than drawing the wrong half of your midrange/control deck, or not having the sideboard to fight decks.
Modern is fun, and diverse, but it is severely fundamentally flawed.
Jace is just too dangerous. Period. He's also not a fun card to face, not thats a reason to not unban something. The financial risk of him being rebanned would possibly be one of the most disastrous moves in Magic's history. Could you imagine if a 600 dollar playset were banned? He would need several reprints to reach stable prices like Goyf has.
Preordain is not safe to unban, and I think the emergence of Grixis will probably scare WOTC to pull that trigger several years down the road even if Shadow decks were to be banned in August.
SFM and BBE should be looked at for unbans
Modern is fun, and diverse, but it is severely fundamentally flawed.
Financial constraints should not be considered when aiming to improve the health of a format. If players can't afford to play a certain deck they shouldn't be buying it (or should build it over time to do so). Jace himself in modern would probably just be a 4 mana get a couple of brainstorms then he dies. Liliana is far more powerful in the planeswalker department. (Edit - further to that how many decks will need a playset? Modern is hardly bursting with 4cmc coloured cards)
Realistically with WOtC being unwilling to print a 2cmc hard counter (or decent anti-tron/eldrazi LD) we need 3 out of those 4 cards unbanned to fix some pretty spectacular midrange/control sized holes in the format.
His suggestion isn't too bad, but not sure if it would be better than GQ since it cannot hit colored manlands (or valakut) and they're pretty ubiquitous. Honestly, what we need is
Land
Tap - add 1 colorless
Tap, Sac ~: Exile target non-basic land an opponent controls. If that controller controls one land that player may search his/her library for a basic land and put it onto the battlefield. Activate this ability only if an opponent controls two or more lands.
The wording may need more precision, but the gist is there. It prevents tron from ever coming online, but it isn't too stifling to fair decks since they'll always have at least 2 lands in play (for the most part). It also hits every problem non-basic in the format. The only thing that gets around this is the double eldrazi temple opening into TKS, but I think that's an acceptable part of the card because you don't want it to be too too good against fairer decks.
Yay/Nay?
PS: It exiles to prevent LftL/Regrowth (E. Wit, etc.) and other GY shenanigans.
Look at that top 8 - 3 Affinity; Jace is horrible in this MU. Taking Turns? No, just no. You don't tap out on T4 against this deck as Ux based decks, plus, this is a horrendous MU and Jace doesn't do anything here. The aether vial decks..., Jace is going to be a 4 mana brainstorm much of the time, but it's not absolutely awful in small numbers if you can navigate the game a certain way. Eldrazi Tron - Ya...this ain't the MU you want more than 2 Jace's either. Again, not the worst, but not spectacular. Burn -...don't make me laugh.
So yeah, really the only decks in modern you actively want Jace against are the various mid-range decks, other control decks, and slower combo decks where you can maneuver the game to a point where fate-sealing is a viable option. You absolutely do not want him against decks like Living End, Dredge, Zoo/low to the ground decks, etc.
Modern is a vastly different format than Legacy in terms of what's played and what options U has. There are hardly any true aggro decks in Legacy (your BTE, Bushwhacker, Burn, Affinity, etc. decks), U counters are terrible in comparison, and traditionally Jace has been terrible against big mana/ramp decks. That pretty much sums up a lot of Modern. Jace is great when you can back him up with FoW or you play against non-combo decks with 10-12 creatures.
Imho, Liliana is a way better card in Modern than Jace will ever be and Liliana is fine.
To Ban:
Aether Vial (Legacy playable, fast mana, cheats stuff into play)
Mox Opal (fast mana, enables turn 3 wins)
Simian Spirit Guide (fast mana, enables turn 3 wins)
Snapcaster Mage (Legacy playable, overall power level, if other efficient creatures like BBE and Stoneforge are banned, it doesn't quite make sense this should be legal)
To Unban:
Stoneforge Mystic (only if a swap with Aether Vial -- otherwise death & taxes becomes too strong)
Bloodbraid Elf (fairly safe I think, not Legacy playable, RG aggro is absent from metagame, modern staple, I imagine it will get unbanned soon)
Splinter Twin (could be a swap w/ Snapcaster)
Birthing Pod (power level much different from CoCo?)
Not saying these cards should be banned/unbanned, just that they are probably or should be on a watchlist.
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
My bones shiver with how good the card would be with Rallier and all of the new cards printed since it was banned.
jace is a cancerous card, it would not help blue, we should avoid it.
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
I agree 100%. But speaking of Tarmogoyf, has that card's hold on Modern passed? It didn't have a single copy in the top 8 and was largely absent from the top 32. Is this thing just not well positioned for the current meta?
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
That's a good point. Fatal Push (especially with snappy) has changed the format a lot. We might be witnessing a rotation in the meta from Tarmogoyf as the cheap beater to Death's Shadow and/or Delve creatures as the cheap beaters.
If they have an excuse to not have to test or think about the format then they are going to use it. I almost assure you they will mention the double hatebears GP as a reason for no unbans next announcement. It's a flash in the pan when people don't pack pyroclasm type effects. The deck will be gone for the foreseeable future; it just isn't consistent enough. Also SFM doesn't even slot into those decks because they rely heavily on the leonin arbiter mana denial plan. It's what makes the deck work. But they will ignore that and just say "modern's fine!" if they even care to address the format at all this time.
I do really really like that wasteland 2.0 being discussed. It answers all the problem cards without being debilitating to the decks that need help. Here's hoping wizards somehow sees the card and realizes it would be completely underwhelming in standard and a HUUUGE benefit to modern.
yes I play the deck and hitting 4 lands isn't a normally a issue given all of the cantrips. 19-20 + 8 cantrips equals something like 24 lands when you factor in the +.5 land per cantrip unless your going to imply that this well established mathematical aspect of deck building doesn't pertain to Grixis Shadow.
Actually there is a mathematical guide line to what your highest curve should be In a deck, In relation to how many lands you run. and Jace doesn't fit Grixis shadow.
Nor does it fit its gameplan.
decks playing:
none
Birthing Pod(power level much different from CoCo?).....
I am assuming you haven't played Modern for very long because Pod is like a entire order of magnitude more powerful than CoCo, not even close.
Jace fits every game plan.
First 24 is very close to the needed 26 needed to run 3 4cc spells and I would imagine that a deck like Grixis Shadow would only want 1-2 putting it at closer to 24 than 26.
Again how would brainstorming every turn in a attrition deck be bad? how would fate sealing your opponents draw step in top deck wars would be bad? Jace would see play in every U deck that isn't running some wonky card intensive combo and DS would easily accommodate some number of him likely 1 of.
Now if your done asserting things with absolutely nothing to support your assumption thanks.
Just like the predictions many people made about Ancestral Vision. I mean every deck wants to draw 3 cards for 1 mana, right?
Wait four more turns doesn't fit as well as "I have taken care of your hand with discard and now I will fatesteal to lock you out of the game" or "I'm running a greedy amount of fetches to draw 3 cards every turn." or even "I bounce your combo guy/big beater I can't push. Swing for Lethal."
Actually I was playing Modern often (once or twice a week) when BBE, Pod and Twin (and Seething Song) were still legal. Coco hadn't been printed at that time. This is why I raised the question of if Coco is as powerful as Pod.
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
You can wiff with CoCo or just hit irrelevant creatures like mana dorks that don't combo, etc....Pod is a repeatable tutor that lets you pick the exact best option out of your deck. Pod invalidated all other fair creature decks and made aggro decks like burn, zoo, and infect unplayable; CoCo isn't invalidating any other strategies.
Well it's not and it isn't even close. CC is in no way an issue at the moment but we are way closer to that being banned then pod being unbanned because the latter is never going to happen.
mayyybe a 1 of with 20 land, in the sideboard. but your original post made it sound like a top tier deck shouldnt get help such as jace. when jace would more than likely help other decks than grixis shadow.
shadow deck wants to hurt itself and win fast. jace takes turns to win. its a contradictory strategy. and it would way more likely see play in a grixis control deck than a shadow deck.
either way in my testing, jace is feeling underwhelming against the top decks atm. its sfm who is performing quite well.
decks playing:
none
2 Hatebear decks reach the top 8 and now SFM is off the table? Hatebears/Death and Taxes have been fairly underwhelming, solid tier 2/3 decks for a very, very long time
Abzan's so top tier that it's 2% of the meta and only had decent results in an early 2017 open/classic where Tillerson lost to AD Nasuem in the finals?
Jace is just too dangerous. Period. He's also not a fun card to face, not thats a reason to not unban something. The financial risk of him being rebanned would possibly be one of the most disastrous moves in Magic's history. Could you imagine if a 600 dollar playset were banned? He would need several reprints to reach stable prices like Goyf has.
Preordain is not safe to unban, and I think the emergence of Grixis will probably scare WOTC to pull that trigger several years down the road even if Shadow decks were to be banned in August.
SFM and BBE should be looked at for unbans
WOTC really needs to introduce a powerful land destruction card that wouldn't damage standard. I'm looking at it more and more, and I'm seeing big mana decks have a huge strangle-hold on modern. Everyone's looking at Grixis, but the more I look at it, the more I'm convinced it has to do with cheating mana for huge threats--Tron lands/Temple.
Shadow decks struggle against the more fair, interactive decks, but why the hell would anyone play a fair deck when they have lousy matchups against big mana decks, while also being stretched too thin to have answers for decks like dredge, company, humans and Affinity? Seriously, if you're a die-hard competitive, you're better off playing a linear, solitaire deck that relies more on doing your own thing and just hoping not to see a blowout hate card.
These combo/linear decks are less likely to fall on their face twice in a row than drawing the wrong half of your midrange/control deck, or not having the sideboard to fight decks.
Modern is fun, and diverse, but it is severely fundamentally flawed.
Financial constraints should not be considered when aiming to improve the health of a format. If players can't afford to play a certain deck they shouldn't be buying it (or should build it over time to do so). Jace himself in modern would probably just be a 4 mana get a couple of brainstorms then he dies. Liliana is far more powerful in the planeswalker department. (Edit - further to that how many decks will need a playset? Modern is hardly bursting with 4cmc coloured cards)
Realistically with WOtC being unwilling to print a 2cmc hard counter (or decent anti-tron/eldrazi LD) we need 3 out of those 4 cards unbanned to fix some pretty spectacular midrange/control sized holes in the format.
Edit for number of Jace's in a deck
Legacy - LED Dredge, ANT & WDnT