I'm looking for a combo that is fairly resistant to removal and all forms of destroy permenant hate. Solution?
Either
1. something like Grishoalbrand that can activate its game winning ability in response to any removal. (pay 7 life)
2. something that doesn't rely on permenants at all like Channel+Fireball
3. something with Hexproof on the combo piece, or some other ability that can beat... say, Path to Exile and Abrupt Decay.
Maybe another option is possible, but I want the combo to completely ignore my opponent, similar to Bogles.
For the most part, the combo can be any color, can use Instants OR Sorceries, can not be a huge elaborate combo (I have to be able to find the game winning piece(s)), can not cost a load of mana (Ad Nauseum being MAX)
It would also be nice if I could plop this combo in a seemingly control deck (and no, control does not mean blue)
Thanks for help, and if I posted this thread in the wrong spot, please help I'm totally clueless when it comes to forums.
Heres some related combos I'm already aware of:
- Grishoalbrand
- Living End
- Ad Nauseum
- Breaking // Entering
- Protean Hulk (though if theres a combo that doesn't require Visc Seer I might be interested)
Stuff I think can be used nicely:
- Cascade
- Aether Revolt's new Expertise cards
On that note, can anything win or come close with Shining Shoal?
The premier one-card combo deck is Scapeshift, which pays 2GG to turn 8 lands into 2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and 6 Mountains (probably nearly all Mountain shocks such as Stomping Ground), which deals 36 damage. You can shave off 1 land to search for only 1 Valakut instead and deal 18 damage.
There's also Through the Breach cheating in Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. It has a bad tendency to not actually kill Burn (which loses all its permanents, takes 15 damage, then plays a land and Bolts your face for the final 3 life points), but it comes pretty close against a lot of decks (such as Infect, which probably can't get out more than 6 permanents unless it overextends into Anger of the Gods).
Tron variants can potentially opt to cheat in Emrakul from their deck with the one-card combo, Planar Bridge. 14 mana to cheat in Emrakul and dodge removal at the same time is steep, but I have hit it twice before while testing Planar Bridge in RG Tron and its close cousin, GB Tron.
You can check out the Ritual Gifts thread and see their precise Gifts Ungiven pile, but last time I checked, I think you need two of Past in Flames, Manamorphose, Pyretic Ritual, Desperate Ritual, and a third ritual effect before you can safely Gifts for the rest of them on 4 lands (worst-case scenario involves your opponent not feeding you rituals to your hand).
The different Project X concepts (be it Melira, Anafenza or co) can win with instant speed by using Chord/CoCo, however, they are vulnerable to removal.
Basically, PURE instant speed win cons are:
- Ad Nauseam
- Griselbanned (Shoal version)
- Bubble Hulk
- Project X (due to Chord/CoCo)
- Specific Necrotic Ooze builds
The first three are basically removal proof while the other two are very redundant and thus would qualify for the stated desire.
Otherwise, just following two of the three desired effects:
- Enduring Ideal (hardlcok)
- Restore Balance ("semi" combo deck)
- Possible Storm (Emrakul says hi)
- Amulet Titan (not the Cobra Titan version, since that one is weaker vs removal)
- Ritual Gifts (basically a Gifts Ungiven based Storm deck, which can win without a need of permanents (version dependant though))
- Breaking//Entering
Every other combo deck I can think about fails through more than two requirements, which makes them meh.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Ad Nauseam is a consistent tier 2 deck, the first one going off at instant speed in Modern. It's the best instant speed combo deck in the format in regards of consistency. Grishoalbrand is also a great instant speed combo deck, winning with more resiliency and consistency now with Nourishing Shoal and Worldspine Wurm rather than Fury of the Horde.
Through the Breach + Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is one I haven't seen yet. Very good in Blue mirrors as you can cast it on their end of turn and still get Emrakul on your turn, allowing you to "double your mana" in a way.
Through the Breach + Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is one I haven't seen yet. Very good in Blue mirrors as you can cast it on their end of turn and still get Emrakul on your turn, allowing you to "double your mana" in a way.
If i remember my rules correctly, you can't EOT through the breach because the wording is "at end of turn". If you TTB Emrakul at the opponent's end step, another cleanup phase will start which will require emrakul to be sacrificed. This is unlike the wording in Goryo's Vengeance which stipulates "beginning of the next end step", allowing you to perform it on the end step and keep the creature the following turn, thus enabling shenanigans with JVP and so on.
Never mind, I googled and saw that there's an oracle text that changes this to match Goryo's.
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Thanks for all the replies, and I've been testing through some of these new ideas thoroughly.
On a side note, I was wondering if there are any other interesting interactions like Madcap Experiment + Platinum Emperion that have extreme one card values if used in the right way... Eldritch Evolution seems interesting...
My overall goal is to make a control combo deck that can use easy to assemble combos or simple counters (such as Blood Moon) to shut down as much as possible. It seems its difficult to do that and not go all in for one combo.
I was thinking I could play game 1 with Blood Moon + Madcap Emperion, then swap into a totally different combo hiding in my sideboard for game 2. That or the other way around, but people tend to sideboard hard when they face something like Blood Moon or Platinum Emperion that straight out beats them.
Also, is investing in some Simian Spirit Guides worth it? What are the chances it gets banned someday?
Either way, which one of the above combos (or other combos) beats aggro fairly consistently? (RDW including after sideboard)
Try mono red with madcap + emperion, filling the rest of the space with burn spells, goblin token makers like hordeling outburst and ofc, goblin grenade. searing blaze, bolt and tokens will keep you alive against most aggro.
then in G2, sideboard in 4 copies of Indomitable Creativity and 1 copy of Emrakul, and take out madcap/emperion. Any sideboarded spot removal or artifact destruction they brought in would be blanked.
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Thanks for all the replies, and I've been testing through some of these new ideas thoroughly.
On a side note, I was wondering if there are any other interesting interactions like Madcap Experiment + Platinum Emperion that have extreme one card values if used in the right way... Eldritch Evolution seems interesting...
My overall goal is to make a control combo deck that can use easy to assemble combos or simple counters (such as Blood Moon) to shut down as much as possible. It seems its difficult to do that and not go all in for one combo.
I was thinking I could play game 1 with Blood Moon + Madcap Emperion, then swap into a totally different combo hiding in my sideboard for game 2. That or the other way around, but people tend to sideboard hard when they face something like Blood Moon or Platinum Emperion that straight out beats them.
Also, is investing in some Simian Spirit Guides worth it? What are the chances it gets banned someday?
Either way, which one of the above combos (or other combos) beats aggro fairly consistently? (RDW including after sideboard)
Thanks a bunch
Control-combo is called Scapeshift, plain and straight. You look like you would have enjoyed Modern a couple of years ago with Twin, but for now, Bring to Light Scapeshift or older version of it is the best control-combo deck you can find : you control for 6-7 turns, then use Scapeshift as a 1 card combo to throw in Valakut and win. Not the RG Breach or Titanshift version, pure Scapeshift I mean.
Also, SSG is always on the radar, but nothing should happen. There are cards that are way more problematic.
im surprised nobody mentioned hive mind while not being an instant speed combo its a rare combo that you dont see often in modern and can surprise alot of people if they are not ready for it. im a scapeshift player (i switched to the titanshift camp because bring to light scapeshift is too weak/slow imo) but it didnt feel combo enough for me so i made this deck
i also run 4 angel's grace because it will happen often that you will need a single more turn to win the game and this card is perfect for that.
So far im not sure wich versions is bether either my control with counterspells only or more board wipe like anger of the gods and supreme verdict
im now exploring the lifegain strategy with souls sisters and things like that but it doesnt feel as stable or relevant idk wich words to chose, english aint my first language
my comment has nothing to do with this thread but why in the world did mtgs created a new account with my curse name...whatever, if you want me to answer please tell this account because something went wrong and it created a new user with my curse name...but im using this account so if you ahve a question ask me and not the other me (mprakathak) if i get a mod notification i just want you guys to know that its all your fault (thesite) for doing this and not mine... Warning issued for spam. If you are having a problem, notify one of the mods please. --CavalryWolfPack
Either
1. something like Grishoalbrand that can activate its game winning ability in response to any removal. (pay 7 life)
2. something that doesn't rely on permenants at all like Channel+Fireball
3. something with Hexproof on the combo piece, or some other ability that can beat... say, Path to Exile and Abrupt Decay.
Maybe another option is possible, but I want the combo to completely ignore my opponent, similar to Bogles.
For the most part, the combo can be any color, can use Instants OR Sorceries, can not be a huge elaborate combo (I have to be able to find the game winning piece(s)), can not cost a load of mana (Ad Nauseum being MAX)
It would also be nice if I could plop this combo in a seemingly control deck (and no, control does not mean blue)
Thanks for help, and if I posted this thread in the wrong spot, please help I'm totally clueless when it comes to forums.
Heres some related combos I'm already aware of:
- Grishoalbrand
- Living End
- Ad Nauseum
- Breaking // Entering
- Protean Hulk (though if theres a combo that doesn't require Visc Seer I might be interested)
Stuff I think can be used nicely:
- Cascade
- Aether Revolt's new Expertise cards
On that note, can anything win or come close with Shining Shoal?
Spirits
AYY LMAO
Does this work?
Kari Zev's Expertise into Breaking / Entering? Theres also other mechanics that could make this work better.
Spirits
The premier one-card combo deck is Scapeshift, which pays 2GG to turn 8 lands into 2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and 6 Mountains (probably nearly all Mountain shocks such as Stomping Ground), which deals 36 damage. You can shave off 1 land to search for only 1 Valakut instead and deal 18 damage.
There's also Through the Breach cheating in Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. It has a bad tendency to not actually kill Burn (which loses all its permanents, takes 15 damage, then plays a land and Bolts your face for the final 3 life points), but it comes pretty close against a lot of decks (such as Infect, which probably can't get out more than 6 permanents unless it overextends into Anger of the Gods).
Tron variants can potentially opt to cheat in Emrakul from their deck with the one-card combo, Planar Bridge. 14 mana to cheat in Emrakul and dodge removal at the same time is steep, but I have hit it twice before while testing Planar Bridge in RG Tron and its close cousin, GB Tron.
You can check out the Ritual Gifts thread and see their precise Gifts Ungiven pile, but last time I checked, I think you need two of Past in Flames, Manamorphose, Pyretic Ritual, Desperate Ritual, and a third ritual effect before you can safely Gifts for the rest of them on 4 lands (worst-case scenario involves your opponent not feeding you rituals to your hand).
Ad Nauseam is going to be the premier instant speed combo.
But Griselbrand lists, and Necrotic Ooze lists can win instant speed also.
Bubble Hulk can also win instant speed. It's worth noting the combo is actually immune to removal as well, despite being a creature based combo.
Outside of those though, I don't think any other combo can win entirely instant speed.
Basically, PURE instant speed win cons are:
- Ad Nauseam
- Griselbanned (Shoal version)
- Bubble Hulk
- Project X (due to Chord/CoCo)
- Specific Necrotic Ooze builds
The first three are basically removal proof while the other two are very redundant and thus would qualify for the stated desire.
Otherwise, just following two of the three desired effects:
- Enduring Ideal (hardlcok)
- Restore Balance ("semi" combo deck)
- Possible Storm (Emrakul says hi)
- Amulet Titan (not the Cobra Titan version, since that one is weaker vs removal)
- Ritual Gifts (basically a Gifts Ungiven based Storm deck, which can win without a need of permanents (version dependant though))
- Breaking//Entering
Every other combo deck I can think about fails through more than two requirements, which makes them meh.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
If i remember my rules correctly, you can't EOT through the breach because the wording is "at end of turn". If you TTB Emrakul at the opponent's end step, another cleanup phase will start which will require emrakul to be sacrificed. This is unlike the wording in Goryo's Vengeance which stipulates "beginning of the next end step", allowing you to perform it on the end step and keep the creature the following turn, thus enabling shenanigans with JVP and so on.Never mind, I googled and saw that there's an oracle text that changes this to match Goryo's.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
On a side note, I was wondering if there are any other interesting interactions like Madcap Experiment + Platinum Emperion that have extreme one card values if used in the right way... Eldritch Evolution seems interesting...
My overall goal is to make a control combo deck that can use easy to assemble combos or simple counters (such as Blood Moon) to shut down as much as possible. It seems its difficult to do that and not go all in for one combo.
I was thinking I could play game 1 with Blood Moon + Madcap Emperion, then swap into a totally different combo hiding in my sideboard for game 2. That or the other way around, but people tend to sideboard hard when they face something like Blood Moon or Platinum Emperion that straight out beats them.
Also, is investing in some Simian Spirit Guides worth it? What are the chances it gets banned someday?
Either way, which one of the above combos (or other combos) beats aggro fairly consistently? (RDW including after sideboard)
Thanks a bunch
then in G2, sideboard in 4 copies of Indomitable Creativity and 1 copy of Emrakul, and take out madcap/emperion. Any sideboarded spot removal or artifact destruction they brought in would be blanked.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Control-combo is called Scapeshift, plain and straight. You look like you would have enjoyed Modern a couple of years ago with Twin, but for now, Bring to Light Scapeshift or older version of it is the best control-combo deck you can find : you control for 6-7 turns, then use Scapeshift as a 1 card combo to throw in Valakut and win. Not the RG Breach or Titanshift version, pure Scapeshift I mean.
Also, SSG is always on the radar, but nothing should happen. There are cards that are way more problematic.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
so my deck wins either with hive mind and any pact card intervention pact ,pact of negation, slaughter pact or pact of the titan
i can also win with 40+ life thanks to intervention pact, hallow, madcap experiment and felidar sovereign even though felidar is a one of in my deck i can still fetch him with ethereal usher if i really need him but i usually use the husher to fetch hive mind.
or i can win via infect thanks to madcap experiment and blightsteel colossus but dont forget to cast either hallow or intervention pact, you can also use runed halo but it wont give you life and they are alot more expensive for some reasons....
i also run 4 angel's grace because it will happen often that you will need a single more turn to win the game and this card is perfect for that.
So far im not sure wich versions is bether either my control with counterspells only or more board wipe like anger of the gods and supreme verdict
im now exploring the lifegain strategy with souls sisters and things like that but it doesnt feel as stable or relevant idk wich words to chose, english aint my first language
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