Well...it slows down the victim's game, but those 5/5 Deaths Shadows and their 6/7 Goyf buddy have something to say about long much longer the game goes.
Its really like this. Lets say you give X% of players an option to play Control, when they are probably already suffering with some weak Esper/Grixis deck right now. Lets say you boost those decks by a small, but appreciable, amount.
Is that suddenly going to change the format? Is having Grixis Control AND Esper at Tier 2 or 1.5 going to render the decks that want to finish the game when their opponent has made TWO land drops obsolete? Seriously?
I'd be a bit surprised if they chose jace instead. SFM would help Uxx reactive decks at least as much as jace, and abzan doesn't seem to get a huge boost from it based on Modern Nexus testing data. SFM seems less risky from a midrange mirror perspective, as plenty of goodanswers exist and see play already.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
...
2Attempt to break the G/GB stranglehold on midrange and encourage interaction by unbanning Stoneforge Mystic
...
ermm... She goes straight into Junk...
That said with fatal push there's an argument for a WB midrange with 4 ghost quarters (or some other mix of lands) could be stronger. Goyf is great, but Lingering souls + stoneforge is a decent backbone as well.
It's not really an option today to play white core midrange, or even white emphasized.
Precisely. Just because one GB deck can run her (and as 600+ games of testing demonstrated, has overall middling results even vs. decks that aren't prepared for SFM) doesn't mean that other decks won't become viable. Abzan cutting Bob, Noble, Goyf, Liliana, or Flayer for SFM is a much more marginal improvement than GW cutting Loxodon Smiter.
Isn't SFM gonna straight up break Abzan company? Which is already really strong. I mean CC into SFM and Renegade Rallier effectively gives you 4 cards for 1. It is not only Junk midrange that will take advantage of her. I don't think there is any need to push Junk colors any further.
Can abzan company find 6-7 slots for sfm without seriously disrupting the deck? I don't think abzan company will do much with SFM - nor knightfall for that matter. I'm not sure Coco builds have the deck space for an SFM package - which is no small allotment of deckspace.
I'm not sure it would even be a problem if it was forced into the deck - likely a marginal increase for the deck at best. There is definitely opportunity cost for existing decks to put SFM in, but it also has potential to power up other Wxx midrange builds.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
...
2Attempt to break the G/GB stranglehold on midrange and encourage interaction by unbanning Stoneforge Mystic
...
ermm... She goes straight into Junk...
That said with fatal push there's an argument for a WB midrange with 4 ghost quarters (or some other mix of lands) could be stronger. Goyf is great, but Lingering souls + stoneforge is a decent backbone as well.
It's not really an option today to play white core midrange, or even white emphasized.
Precisely. Just because one GB deck can run her (and as 600+ games of testing demonstrated, has overall middling results even vs. decks that aren't prepared for SFM) doesn't mean that other decks won't become viable. Abzan cutting Bob, Noble, Goyf, Liliana, or Flayer for SFM is a much more marginal improvement than GW cutting Loxodon Smiter.
Isn't SFM gonna straight up break Abzan company? Which is already really strong. I mean CC into SFM and Renegade Rallier effectively gives you 4 cards for 1. It is not only Junk midrange that will take advantage of her. I don't think there is any need to push Junk colors any further.
It's a little awkward to put SFM in a company deck, something about having to run 2-4 equipment in a deck that needs a critical mass of creatures.
SFM would be good in junk, but if legacy junk is any indicator, blue/monoW decks would be running 4 SFM, while junk decks are likely to only run 2 or 3.
That can slow a game down pretty quick too you know
it would be nice if we could have more blue decks doing the same. with disruption equally as powerful as what bg/x has to offer(which is currently legacy level)
That can slow a game down pretty quick too you know
it would be nice if we could have more blue decks doing the same. with disruption equally as powerful as what bg/x has to offer(which is currently legacy level)
Could not agree more. But, as I've argued before, if they regret reprinting thoughtseize...
That can slow a game down pretty quick too you know
it would be nice if we could have more blue decks doing the same. with disruption equally as powerful as what bg/x has to offer(which is currently legacy level)
Could not agree more. But, as I've argued before, if they regret reprinting thoughtseize...
then the next best step: sfm, preordain, jace, twin?
People play Serum Visions in high quantities because it is the only way for blue decks to have any semblance of consistency while opponents are allowed to cast better Ponders and one-mana Impulses. Most people agree that Serum in a vacuum is a bad card that only sees play out of necessity.
And yet Serum Visions sees play in more decks than Ancient Stirrings or Oath of Nissa. So no matter how broken you try to make Stirrings sound, calling it a one-mana Impulse, SV is still better.
SV in a vacuum is a bad card, if your "vacuum" transcends format boundaries and extends to the realm of Brainstorm or even Ancestral Recall. If your "vacuum" consists solely of what's in Modern, excluding the banned cards, it's a great card. It wouldn't be among the top 10 spells otherwise.
Do you think shocklands are bad cards that only see play out of necessity?
Look at it this way: Shocklands are on par with modern's power level, whereas the Alpha duals are too strong, and the BFZ Duals aren't strong enough (seriously, stop using this analogy).
Serum Visions is not powerful enough for Modern. Preordain is a much more "on-par" blue 1 mana cantrip for Modern's power level.
Pod proves your statement about "bans that are supposed to shape and level the playing field, but none of them have actually worked" statement is completely wrong, while Pod was legal no other value creature decks existed in any competitive sense.
What does Pod prove? That we have the same damn menace with Collected Company now? How about Goryo's Vengeance? How about Through the Breach? What's the actual difference when we have decks that kill you turn 3 anyway? Why are you being so selective where you think some decks deserve a banning and others not?
This banned list is completely arbitrary, and yes for me personally Birthing Pod pushes the line of being a broken card in the Modern format. Yet at the same time, we never had any decent blue consistency cards unbanned to try and keep Pod in check.
It's definitely one of the cards I think deserves a second chance in a format that isn't being arbitrarily sculpted, based on people who complain because they suck at Magic.
Difference between Pod and Goryo's? One was in a deck that violated format representation rules, and one is in a Tier 3 deck that never rose above 5% of the metagame. The banlist is not arbitrary at all.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
People play Serum Visions in high quantities because it is the only way for blue decks to have any semblance of consistency while opponents are allowed to cast better Ponders and one-mana Impulses. Most people agree that Serum in a vacuum is a bad card that only sees play out of necessity.
And yet Serum Visions sees play in more decks than Ancient Stirrings or Oath of Nissa. So no matter how broken you try to make Stirrings sound, calling it a one-mana Impulse, SV is still better.
SV in a vacuum is a bad card, if your "vacuum" transcends format boundaries and extends to the realm of Brainstorm or even Ancestral Recall. If your "vacuum" consists solely of what's in Modern, excluding the banned cards, it's a great card. It wouldn't be among the top 10 spells otherwise.
Do you think shocklands are bad cards that only see play out of necessity?
Look at it this way: Shocklands are on par with modern's power level, whereas the Alpha duals are too strong, and the BFZ Duals aren't strong enough (seriously, stop using this analogy).
Serum Visions is not powerful enough for Modern. Preordain is a much more "on-par" blue 1 mana cantrip for Modern's power level.
"Serum Visions is not powerful enough for Modern. Preordain is a much more "on-par" blue 1 mana cantrip for Modern's power level. "
I agree. its a shame combo is keeping us back from having catrips as powerfull as green has in this format.
Boo, I think hellfire put me on his ignore list, he never replied to my concerns about SFM and Twin being unbanned at the same time.
I have no clue if Company would slot in SFM, is it out of the question that they would slot in 2 SFM's for fair value, and slot in 1 Batterskull? She's effectively a 6 of with Chord. I hadn't really thought about Company running her.
I tried Company out for the very first time this week at the most competitive place for modern in Philly, it went so horribly that I'll never touch the deck again.
Boo, I think hellfire put me on his ignore list, he never replied to my concerns about SFM and Twin being unbanned at the same time.
I have no clue if Company would slot in SFM, is it out of the question that they would slot in 2 SFM's for fair value, and slot in 1 Batterskull? She's effectively a 6 of with Chord. I hadn't really thought about Company running her.
I tried Company out for the very first time this week at the most competitive place for modern in Philly, it went so horribly that I'll never touch the deck again.
its true sfm and twin would be broken together. with that being said I feel we either.
At this point, I welcome any bans or unbans that WOTC decides to go with as long as they have the balls to reverse their decision if they're wrong. Unban Jace ? Sure, if it does turn out to be oppressive , re-ban it. Doesn't matter who spent how much money on buying Jaces. If it turns out fine ? Well, that's great then.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Amonkhet is supposed to be an Egyptian set. Egyptians used rune. Mother of Runes reprint confirmed.
But really, I would love Mom in the format. She creates some interesting board states.
Hmmm. No, they did not. They used hieroglyphs.
In all fairness, they are visually very similar, and WotC could easily make Mom fit in the set flavorfully (especially with that gorgeous Terese Neilson art). I've been saying this for sometime as well; Mom needs some Modern love.
That can slow a game down pretty quick too you know
Spirits
Not everyone enjoy's Turn 3 wins (which means turn 2 loss!), and to pretend otherwise is a bit dishonest.
Spirits
Is that suddenly going to change the format? Is having Grixis Control AND Esper at Tier 2 or 1.5 going to render the decks that want to finish the game when their opponent has made TWO land drops obsolete? Seriously?
Spirits
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Spell Queller
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
1 Dispel
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Negate
1 Ojutai's Command
1 Cryptic Command
2 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Botanical Sanctum
1 Temple Garden
2 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Island
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Lumbering Falls
3 Natural State
2 Celestial Purge
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Disenchant
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Summary Dismissal
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I'm not sure it would even be a problem if it was forced into the deck - likely a marginal increase for the deck at best. There is definitely opportunity cost for existing decks to put SFM in, but it also has potential to power up other Wxx midrange builds.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
It's a little awkward to put SFM in a company deck, something about having to run 2-4 equipment in a deck that needs a critical mass of creatures.
SFM would be good in junk, but if legacy junk is any indicator, blue/monoW decks would be running 4 SFM, while junk decks are likely to only run 2 or 3.
Also, bant stoneblade seems like hella fun.
it would be nice if we could have more blue decks doing the same. with disruption equally as powerful as what bg/x has to offer(which is currently legacy level)
decks playing:
none
Could not agree more. But, as I've argued before, if they regret reprinting thoughtseize...
then the next best step: sfm, preordain, jace, twin?
decks playing:
none
Look at it this way: Shocklands are on par with modern's power level, whereas the Alpha duals are too strong, and the BFZ Duals aren't strong enough (seriously, stop using this analogy).
Serum Visions is not powerful enough for Modern. Preordain is a much more "on-par" blue 1 mana cantrip for Modern's power level.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Amonkhet is supposed to be an Egyptian set. Egyptians used rune. Mother of Runes reprint confirmed.
But really, I would love Mom in the format. She creates some interesting board states.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
"Serum Visions is not powerful enough for Modern. Preordain is a much more "on-par" blue 1 mana cantrip for Modern's power level. "
I agree. its a shame combo is keeping us back from having catrips as powerfull as green has in this format.
decks playing:
none
I have no clue if Company would slot in SFM, is it out of the question that they would slot in 2 SFM's for fair value, and slot in 1 Batterskull? She's effectively a 6 of with Chord. I hadn't really thought about Company running her.
I tried Company out for the very first time this week at the most competitive place for modern in Philly, it went so horribly that I'll never touch the deck again.
Spirits
its true sfm and twin would be broken together. with that being said I feel we either.
a: unban twin or
B: unban preordain and sfm
decks playing:
none
We had Jeskai Twin-Blade with Jace and Preordain in standard! How bad could it possibly be? Be real.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Hmmm. No, they did not. They used hieroglyphs.
We need a nordic set.
In all fairness, they are visually very similar, and WotC could easily make Mom fit in the set flavorfully (especially with that gorgeous Terese Neilson art). I've been saying this for sometime as well; Mom needs some Modern love.
I wasnt playing then, so please forgive my ignorance, was just trying to find the actual issue/concern. :]
Spirits