There is also the MtGO meta, that matters to a lot of us.
Data from MTGO is inherently skewed because it's only a sampling of one subset of the Magic-playing population: The ones that are masochistic enough to use MTGO.
There is also the MtGO meta, that matters to a lot of us.
Data from MTGO is inherently skewed because it's only a sampling of one subset of the Magic-playing population: The ones that are masochistic enough to use MTGO.
Our data is also exclusively derived from MOCS events and a small sample of 5-0 League lists. It's not even close to a representative sample, unless we also believe there's some kind of feedback loop where the non-representative sample is later informing the rest of the uncounted-for metagame. But that hasn't played out in my personal MTGO experience, and I suspect the metagame actually looks different across Comp Leagues than just the 5-0s make it out. This is less true in larger paper events, where Day 2 data plus Top 32 data actually gives a better picture of what paper events did well at a large event level. Local paper tournaments, however, are rarely defined by the overall metagame, except for the expected appearance of some number of Tier 1 decks.
The top tables from what I've seen on the floor at GP Vancouver have very few Blue and White cards. Lots of Delirium Shadow, Burn and cards in Jund colors and Eldrazi Tron at the top tables. Blue and White from what I've seen at the top tables are almost non-existant.
There is also the MtGO meta, that matters to a lot of us.
Data from MTGO is inherently skewed because it's only a sampling of one subset of the Magic-playing population: The ones that are masochistic enough to use MTGO.
MTGO is one of the spikiest segments of the player base and holds a lot more value than say local FNM's regarding what is actually a serious deck. If it is a real deck it will 100% be played all over MTGO, go to the local FNM and I will forsure play against mostly budget brews and maybe 1-2 decks that fall somewhere on the T2-1 level of decks.
MTGO is actually a better source of decks than most paper events as paper decks are about 3 times as expensive on average as the MTGO equivalent and card scarcity is functionally nonexistent. Being cost locked into a paper Modern Deck is a real thing for most players and is far less a thing online with on demand sell and buys 24/7
There is also the MtGO meta, that matters to a lot of us.
Data from MTGO is inherently skewed because it's only a sampling of one subset of the Magic-playing population: The ones that are masochistic enough to use MTGO.
MTGO is one of the spikiest segments of the player base and holds a lot more value than say local FNM's regarding what is actually a serious deck. If it is a real deck it will 100% be played all over MTGO, go to the local FNM and I will forsure play against mostly budget brews and maybe 1-2 decks that fall somewhere on the T2-1 level of decks.
MTGO is actually a better source of decks than most paper events as paper decks are about 3 times as expensive on average as the MTGO equivalent and card scarcity is functionally nonexistent. Being cost locked into a paper Modern Deck is a real thing for most players and is far less a thing online with on demand sell and buys 24/7
I suppose you complain about how, when Wile E. Coyote runs off a cliff, he often doesn't fall until he notices this fact. After all, that doesn't work at all with the laws of gravity! Or complain about how Daffy Duck's beak spinning around his head when he gets shot by Elmer Fudd in "Rabbit Fire" doesn't fit at all with anatomy.
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Infraction for trolling -ktkenshinx-
There is also the MtGO meta, that matters to a lot of us.
Data from MTGO is inherently skewed because it's only a sampling of one subset of the Magic-playing population: The ones that are masochistic enough to use MTGO.
MTGO is one of the spikiest segments of the player base and holds a lot more value than say local FNM's regarding what is actually a serious deck. If it is a real deck it will 100% be played all over MTGO, go to the local FNM and I will forsure play against mostly budget brews and maybe 1-2 decks that fall somewhere on the T2-1 level of decks.
MTGO is actually a better source of decks than most paper events as paper decks are about 3 times as expensive on average as the MTGO equivalent and card scarcity is functionally nonexistent. Being cost locked into a paper Modern Deck is a real thing for most players and is far less a thing online with on demand sell and buys 24/7
I suppose you complain about how, when Wile E. Coyote runs off a cliff, he often doesn't fall until he notices this fact. After all, that doesn't work at all with the laws of gravity! Or complain about how Daffy Duck's beak spinning around his head when he gets shot by Elmer Fudd in "Rabbit Fire" doesn't fit at all with anatomy.
I suppose that you think I am intended to interpret your esoteric reply.
We are seeing Eldrazi Tron like crazy in the coverage, don't know if they're trying to showcase a new deck or if it's out in huge numbers and doing well.
I think it was mentioned on commentary briefly, but what we're seeing overall is a rise in decks that don't care about Fatal Push. When you think the whole field is trying to jam multiple copies, best to just not play anything that can be tagged by it.
Good assessment; I think you hit the nail on the head. That, and chalice is a beating against burn/similar.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Has anyone seen a gifts ungiven deck doing well since esper started to pick up metagame % recently?
Two local players are playing a version with 4x Baral, Chief of Compliance and then a ton of 2cmc counters (Remand, Mana Leak, Negate, etc) with recursion/value in Ojutai's Command, in addition to a standard Elesh Norn/Iona/board wipe Gifts package. Looks fun, but very swingy. I played against it twice; crushed one player, got crushed by the other. If Baral survives, it's hard to do anything. But a dead Baral makes the deck seem like it doesn't do anything.
Oohh that sounds pretty spicy; I think I'll try to play around with something similar. Too bad Baral isn't a 1/4.
Yeah, or a 5/6.
Now we're cookin' with gas.
So I've built an esper list in the last couple of weeks but I've tried to design all of the 'synergistic reliance' out of it, so cards like baral or sylvan caryatid (seen people run it before) are out. Esper charm and lingering souls are in. Plenty of removal, a selection of the best counters, some sweepers. it seems solid.
The reason I'm the most happy with it is because I've taken to running 1x Noxious Revival, which means you can slim down those traditional 3-ofs for gifts piles to 2-ofs and it frees up loads of space for making the deck just a "good deck" rather than a stack of jank reliant on gifts. Honestly I'm not entirely sure why people haven't done it before (or maybe they have!)
I'm hoping gifts comes back into the metagame a bit. It's a powerful deck, and the extra "push" (haha) from removal might allay the issue of being a turn too slow for the format. I don't think fragile acceleration is the answer.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Just mentioning, there is about 15 occasions where I went 5-0 with elves on MTGO leagues, and I never got published. So I think it's pretty interesting that some decks just get completely excluded. I've heard similar stories from many consistent league players.
There is also the MtGO meta, that matters to a lot of us.
Data from MTGO is inherently skewed because it's only a sampling of one subset of the Magic-playing population: The ones that are masochistic enough to use MTGO.
Our data is also exclusively derived from MOCS events and a small sample of 5-0 League lists. It's not even close to a representative sample, unless we also believe there's some kind of feedback loop where the non-representative sample is later informing the rest of the uncounted-for metagame. But that hasn't played out in my personal MTGO experience, and I suspect the metagame actually looks different across Comp Leagues than just the 5-0s make it out. This is less true in larger paper events, where Day 2 data plus Top 32 data actually gives a better picture of what paper events did well at a large event level. Local paper tournaments, however, are rarely defined by the overall metagame, except for the expected appearance of some number of Tier 1 decks.
my experience on mtgo actually reflects quite well what the data suggests( asides from the occasional casual jank decks youll face)
also the gps are currently looking like this is also true on paper.
I accept MTGO for what it is, but you all who pay attention to this stuff should be able to confirm or deny if MTGO predicts the meta. I'm pretty sure any time I've bothered, it's been a pretty good indicator.
Esper Transcendent at 21st
BTL Scapeshift at 22nd
Copy Cat at 27th
Esper Delve at 30th
It's telling that those four decks all failed to get over T16. That's a continuation of the same "almost but not quite" narrative we've seen since August 2016. Let's see if GP Van is any better, but if it's not, it's time to really examine the banlist to figure out ways to fix this imbalance.
Well blue decks are getting hit in the head with a shovel thanks to the near-legacy tier discard suite of thoughtseize, inquisition, collective brutality, TKS...
Well blue decks are getting hit in the head with a shovel thanks to the near-legacy tier discard suite of thoughtseize, inquisition, collective brutality, TKS...
Meanwhile, blue is stuck on Serum Visions and Mana Leak. People keep blaming ramp but GP Brisbane further shows that this isn't the problem. Abzan made it to T8 despite all the ramp. Jund got 10th. Another Abzan got 15th. These decks allegedly have bad ramp matchups, and yet did just fine. Meanwhile, blue couldn't get over 20 and gets another tournament run where it can't crack T16. Blue needs better tools.
Well blue decks are getting hit in the head with a shovel thanks to the near-legacy tier discard suite of thoughtseize, inquisition, collective brutality, TKS...
Meanwhile, blue is stuck on Serum Visions and Mana Leak. People keep blaming ramp but GP Brisbane further shows that this isn't the problem. Abzan made it to T8 despite all the ramp. Jund got 10th. Another Abzan got 15th. These decks allegedly have bad ramp matchups, and yet did just fine. Meanwhile, blue couldn't get over 20 and gets another tournament run where it can't crack T16. Blue needs better tools.
while its true that we need a better counter spell, wizards has stated they think mana leak is busted in standard so im not optimistic there.
and as for unbans there isnt anything but twin that helps in this current meta imo
I dont mean to be tooting the same horn, but its now officially time that they unban twin.
Well blue decks are getting hit in the head with a shovel thanks to the near-legacy tier discard suite of thoughtseize, inquisition, collective brutality, TKS...
Meanwhile, blue is stuck on Serum Visions and Mana Leak. People keep blaming ramp but GP Brisbane further shows that this isn't the problem. Abzan made it to T8 despite all the ramp. Jund got 10th. Another Abzan got 15th. These decks allegedly have bad ramp matchups, and yet did just fine. Meanwhile, blue couldn't get over 20 and gets another tournament run where it can't crack T16. Blue needs better tools.
while its true that we need a better counter spell, wizards has stated they think mana leak is busted in standard so im not optimistic there.
and as for unbans there isnt anything but twin that helps in this current meta imo
if AER proved anything it is that wizards can do a decent job at balancing for modern and standard at the same time
e.g. revolt mana leak
1U (maybe UU)
target counter spell unless it's owner pays (1-2)
revolt: if a permanent blah blah blah, counter that spell instead.
Well blue decks are getting hit in the head with a shovel thanks to the near-legacy tier discard suite of thoughtseize, inquisition, collective brutality, TKS...
Meanwhile, blue is stuck on Serum Visions and Mana Leak. People keep blaming ramp but GP Brisbane further shows that this isn't the problem. Abzan made it to T8 despite all the ramp. Jund got 10th. Another Abzan got 15th. These decks allegedly have bad ramp matchups, and yet did just fine. Meanwhile, blue couldn't get over 20 and gets another tournament run where it can't crack T16. Blue needs better tools.
while its true that we need a better counter spell, wizards has stated they think mana leak is busted in standard so im not optimistic there.
and as for unbans there isnt anything but twin that helps in this current meta imo
if AER proved anything it is that wizards can do a decent job at balancing for modern and standard at the same time
e.g. revolt mana leak
1U (maybe UU)
target counter spell unless it's owner pays (1-2)
revolt: if a permanent blah blah blah, counter that spell instead.
so what, we wait a year or 2 for that to MAYBE happen?
In terms of MTGO, I'd say it has modern events and a lot of players do play it, but the audience for MTGO is definitely not the same as those who play primarily in cardboard. The impression from looking at the results is that the online meta reacts faster to changes than the cardboard one, so we get to see changes faster and more often then not, people take successful decks from the online format to local events and maybe even GPs. The catch is that because the online meta adjusts faster, decks coming from that meta to the paper one may not have the right sideboard tech for what people are playing at modern night, so even though the online meta adjust faster and we see the power of new cards as well as counters, it doesn't mean the deck will be successful on the local level. I've seen this myself and others have talked about it elsewhere.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I honestly don't think the countermagic in Modern is anywhere near as bad as people claim it is. Force of Will would be amazing, and I feel Daze would be a perfect addition, but we cannot exclude Dispel, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, Mana Leak, Remand, and the situational cards such as Stubborn Denial. They have tremendously efficient Countermagic, what they don't have is consistency. Red has better card draw, green has better cantrips, and card advantage outlets, black has more versatile threats when combined with green.
Our data is also exclusively derived from MOCS events and a small sample of 5-0 League lists. It's not even close to a representative sample, unless we also believe there's some kind of feedback loop where the non-representative sample is later informing the rest of the uncounted-for metagame. But that hasn't played out in my personal MTGO experience, and I suspect the metagame actually looks different across Comp Leagues than just the 5-0s make it out. This is less true in larger paper events, where Day 2 data plus Top 32 data actually gives a better picture of what paper events did well at a large event level. Local paper tournaments, however, are rarely defined by the overall metagame, except for the expected appearance of some number of Tier 1 decks.
MTGO is one of the spikiest segments of the player base and holds a lot more value than say local FNM's regarding what is actually a serious deck. If it is a real deck it will 100% be played all over MTGO, go to the local FNM and I will forsure play against mostly budget brews and maybe 1-2 decks that fall somewhere on the T2-1 level of decks.
MTGO is actually a better source of decks than most paper events as paper decks are about 3 times as expensive on average as the MTGO equivalent and card scarcity is functionally nonexistent. Being cost locked into a paper Modern Deck is a real thing for most players and is far less a thing online with on demand sell and buys 24/7
I suppose you complain about how, when Wile E. Coyote runs off a cliff, he often doesn't fall until he notices this fact. After all, that doesn't work at all with the laws of gravity! Or complain about how Daffy Duck's beak spinning around his head when he gets shot by Elmer Fudd in "Rabbit Fire" doesn't fit at all with anatomy.
I suppose that you think I am intended to interpret your esoteric reply.
Good assessment; I think you hit the nail on the head. That, and chalice is a beating against burn/similar.
So I've built an esper list in the last couple of weeks but I've tried to design all of the 'synergistic reliance' out of it, so cards like baral or sylvan caryatid (seen people run it before) are out. Esper charm and lingering souls are in. Plenty of removal, a selection of the best counters, some sweepers. it seems solid.
The reason I'm the most happy with it is because I've taken to running 1x Noxious Revival, which means you can slim down those traditional 3-ofs for gifts piles to 2-ofs and it frees up loads of space for making the deck just a "good deck" rather than a stack of jank reliant on gifts. Honestly I'm not entirely sure why people haven't done it before (or maybe they have!)
I'm hoping gifts comes back into the metagame a bit. It's a powerful deck, and the extra "push" (haha) from removal might allay the issue of being a turn too slow for the format. I don't think fragile acceleration is the answer.
Pretty sad that blue is looking awful in both GP's thus far
White looks kind of crappy, too, it's only slightly splashed in Abzan and it's used in Sun and Moon for planeswalker
Lantern has now won two GP's but it still seems like such a niche deck, it's funny.
Gotta wait for the other GP, but if the trend continues, maybe WOTC will make a huge unban for blue in the upcoming weeks
also the gps are currently looking like this is also true on paper.
decks playing:
none
Spirits
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpbri17/9-32-decklists-2017-02-19
Esper Transcendent at 21st
BTL Scapeshift at 22nd
Copy Cat at 27th
Esper Delve at 30th
It's telling that those four decks all failed to get over T16. That's a continuation of the same "almost but not quite" narrative we've seen since August 2016. Let's see if GP Van is any better, but if it's not, it's time to really examine the banlist to figure out ways to fix this imbalance.
Meanwhile, blue is stuck on Serum Visions and Mana Leak. People keep blaming ramp but GP Brisbane further shows that this isn't the problem. Abzan made it to T8 despite all the ramp. Jund got 10th. Another Abzan got 15th. These decks allegedly have bad ramp matchups, and yet did just fine. Meanwhile, blue couldn't get over 20 and gets another tournament run where it can't crack T16. Blue needs better tools.
Better Dig/Deck Manipulation.
How the hell have Wizards let it get to the point where Green has the best contextual dig, and tutor suite, some of the best instant cards, and combo?
Some blue cards are coming off the banlist. No question to me.
Spirits
damn right they are! when is the next update again?
decks playing:
none
while its true that we need a better counter spell, wizards has stated they think mana leak is busted in standard so im not optimistic there.
and as for unbans there isnt anything but twin that helps in this current meta imo
I dont mean to be tooting the same horn, but its now officially time that they unban twin.
decks playing:
none
if AER proved anything it is that wizards can do a decent job at balancing for modern and standard at the same time
e.g. revolt mana leak
1U (maybe UU)
target counter spell unless it's owner pays (1-2)
revolt: if a permanent blah blah blah, counter that spell instead.
so what, we wait a year or 2 for that to MAYBE happen?
decks playing:
none
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1 Wizards doubles down on Twin being too strong and gives us preordain AND Jace.
The problem will then be, what if that's still not enough?
2 Wizards accepts that the format required Twin for a healthy meta, and just give. It back.
I lean towards option one, I don't think they swallow their pride on the twin ban.
Spirits
problem is, if they choose option 1 and it fails, then twin is most definitely not coming off, what then?
decks playing:
none
White sucks just as much as Blue, we need a Stoneforge Mystic, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Bloodbraid Elf, Ponder, Preordain unbanning.
Blue does well, unban Twin!
Blue doesn't do well, unban Twin!!!