Ya'll need to try RUG Deprive Delver/Grow. ITs the real deal if you want to play tempo and have good game against the current meta.
Looks like a deck that has a decent ramp matchup, but completely folds to a Tarmogoyf and Abrupt Decay.
The list can be modified to adjust for different metas. More simic charms to battle goyfs and decays, etc... but dont want to get into the deck itself. My point is there are viable alternatives that do well. And with more people looking at them, we can find new innovations.
I find Temur decks really interesting, but it's hard to deny BGx is not a good matchup. You see, there are a lot of good, fun, viable decks in the format. Sadly in this thread, blue decks are either Tier 1 or utter trash garbage tier. I guess Twin really spoiled some people Plot twist: Grixis Control is 4% online this month so far, and the 8th deck with most 5-0s posted since the bans. UW Control is 9th since the bans. But yeah, Tier 7 Uxx Control sucks...
Isn't Scapeshift a bad matchup for BGx? All their removal is basically dead.
Oh, I am aware. I was both expressing my interest in Temur decks in general and echoing Shmanka's sentiment that Kovo's deck in specific, Temur Delver, has a hard time dealing with BGx Midrange decks, which I think we all can agree with.
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Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
All I know is that ceremonious rejection was supposed to be wizards answer for us amidst the eldrazi and tron, sadly unless there are a lot of eldrazi and affinity decks in your meta it doesn't slot well enough to warrant the precious slots you have as a control deck. Not only that but ceremonious is garbage against lantern because of the recursion engine.
The problem with Ceremonious Rejection is that Eldrazi plays Cavern of Souls, Tron capitalizes on cast triggers, and there are much more effective cards to deal with both Affinity and Lantern. Rejection is mostly garbage.
Well, Stoddard did address Modern in the mailbag column, but not in a very decisive or particularly helpful manner. Responding to our own Shmanka's question of "Why are you continuously banning cards in Modern, instead of unbanning them?" Stoddard responded:
Quote from "Sam Stoddard" »
Many of the cards on the banned list in Modern are there because they make the format less diverse instead of more diverse. Adding a card like Glimpse of Nature doesn't add one deck to the format; it likely eliminates a lot of other decks from being competitive. As the format gets larger and larger, I think there will be room to re-add some of the cards on the banned list back into the format. For what I hope are obvious reasons, I don't think it would be good for me to go through the entire banned list and stack rank how likely each card is to come off in the next two years. One hint, though: I wouldn't get my hopes up about Skullclamp anytime soon.
1. There are at least 2 cards ("some of the cards") on the banlist R&D is eventually interested in adding back to Modern.
2. Unbans shouldn't make other decks no longer competitive. Note that Stoddard doesn't say unbans should not make decks LESS competitive. Just that unbans shouldn't remove decks from being some degree of competitive.
3. Glimpse of Nature will probably never be unbanned.
4. Skullclamp will probably never be unbanned.
Kind of disappointing. To some extent, it's better than nothing, but I really wish Wizards staff would be more open with their Modern management.
Well, Stoddard did address Modern in the mailbag column, but not in a very decisive or particularly helpful manner. Responding to our own Shmanka's question of "Why are you continuously banning cards in Modern, instead of unbanning them?" Stoddard responded:
Quote from "Sam Stoddard" »
Many of the cards on the banned list in Modern are there because they make the format less diverse instead of more diverse. Adding a card like Glimpse of Nature doesn't add one deck to the format; it likely eliminates a lot of other decks from being competitive. As the format gets larger and larger, I think there will be room to re-add some of the cards on the banned list back into the format. For what I hope are obvious reasons, I don't think it would be good for me to go through the entire banned list and stack rank how likely each card is to come off in the next two years. One hint, though: I wouldn't get my hopes up about Skullclamp anytime soon.
1. There are at least 2 cards ("some of the cards") on the banlist R&D is eventually interested in adding back to Modern.
2. Unbans shouldn't make other decks no longer competitive. Note that Stoddard doesn't say unbans should not make decks LESS competitive. Just that unbans shouldn't remove decks from being some degree of competitive.
3. Glimpse of Nature will probably never be unbanned.
4. Skullclamp will probably never be unbanned.
Kind of disappointing. To some extent, it's better than nothing, but I really wish Wizards staff would be more open with their Modern management.
WOTC has more knowledge (or confidence) about the ban based on the their data collected in the current META.
But they have no much knowledge to say or to guess what is the impact to the BETA when they unban a card.
In order to make less mistakes, they prefer doing more bans than unbans to fix the problem in Modern.
I believe the entire Modern community can do a better job than WOTC to manage the ban list , unfortunately, WOTC does not take it seriously.
Well, Stoddard did address Modern in the mailbag column, but not in a very decisive or particularly helpful manner. Responding to our own Shmanka's question of "Why are you continuously banning cards in Modern, instead of unbanning them?" Stoddard responded:
Quote from "Sam Stoddard" »
Many of the cards on the banned list in Modern are there because they make the format less diverse instead of more diverse. Adding a card like Glimpse of Nature doesn't add one deck to the format; it likely eliminates a lot of other decks from being competitive. As the format gets larger and larger, I think there will be room to re-add some of the cards on the banned list back into the format. For what I hope are obvious reasons, I don't think it would be good for me to go through the entire banned list and stack rank how likely each card is to come off in the next two years. One hint, though: I wouldn't get my hopes up about Skullclamp anytime soon.
1. There are at least 2 cards ("some of the cards") on the banlist R&D is eventually interested in adding back to Modern.
2. Unbans shouldn't make other decks no longer competitive. Note that Stoddard doesn't say unbans should not make decks LESS competitive. Just that unbans shouldn't remove decks from being some degree of competitive.
3. Glimpse of Nature will probably never be unbanned.
4. Skullclamp will probably never be unbanned.
Kind of disappointing. To some extent, it's better than nothing, but I really wish Wizards staff would be more open with their Modern management.
Lots of softball questions and soft, non-answers. Not like I expected anything more from the article, but at least they imply stuff should be coming off the banned list eventually.
This seems like a joke... people wants more communication and wizards says "maybe someday we will unban some card, but not skullclamp". Thank you this information is really useful! i wont buy skullclamps then...
He's not going to go into depth on Modern based on a few tweets.
If we persist in requesting information, maybe they will get the hint. Look at the regular suspects in this thread, its a tiny portion of the player base that is continuing to ask for information.
This seems like a joke... people wants more communication and wizards says "maybe someday we will unban some card, but not skullclamp". Thank you this information is really useful! i wont buy skullclamps then...
To be fair, I do own a bunch of Skullclamps... but mostly because they are great in token and artifact strategies in Commander.
I agree though that his answer effectively tells us nothing of value.
I don't know what people were expecting honestly. Sam either paints a rosier picture of Modern or is vague like Maro. I myself only asked a question because there is no harm in trying.
I'm more curious in what he meant by "re-add." Does that only mean cards that were legal in Modern before then banned, such as Preordain, Splinter Twin, or Bloodbraid Elf, and that cards on the original list aren't up for consideration anymore? I know Sam doesn't want to give clues in what they are considering in fears that players will buy out those cards but that vagueness is going to bother me until he clarifies, which is likely never.
In others news, guess it's a bad day to be an Elf fan in Modern or the handful of Skullclamp hopefuls in Modern.
More communication from wizards is a double edged sword. People read everything they write multiple ways and try to wring the maximum meaning out of it, and so there is a major danger of over-communication. Misunderstandings in text on the internet being rather easy to cause.
Something that's taken me a long time to learn in my professional life is that the vast majority of people do not read content longer than a sentence very well.
More communication from wizards is a double edged sword. People read everything they write multiple ways and try to wring the maximum meaning out of it, and so there is a major danger of over-communication. Misunderstandings in text on the internet being rather easy to cause.
Something that's taken me a long time to learn in my professional life is that the vast majority of people do not read content longer than a sentence very well.
Is it the fault from audience?
I would say the WOTC should improve their communication skill or style, in order to prevent misunderstandings.
For some reason, they avoid doing clarification or responding the question in a simple / direct way.
I think they are intentionally vague because I bet they are very unwilling to unban anything, unless it's absolutely necessary, soothes the flames from a controversial ban or is completely non-consequential, something like Sword of the Meek.
If the last twelve months have taught me anything is that Wizards' priority is first and foremost selling packs ( duh, they are a business! ) before the health of Modern. Unbanning a card such as Jace would steal the thunder or almost completely invalidate any Blue planeswalker they have planned, so they'll remind the audience ( whom at this point probably never played against Jace back then ) that this card is too good and not worth the risk. Same is true for Splinter Twin, as they probably want players to look to new Standard sets for options like Spell Queller and Nahiri other than just contently playing with the tried and true deck that they have enjoyed for years.
I know it sounds like tinfoil hat conspiracy, but that's how I see their lack of communication regarding Modern.
Well, Stoddard did address Modern in the mailbag column, but not in a very decisive or particularly helpful manner. Responding to our own Shmanka's question of "Why are you continuously banning cards in Modern, instead of unbanning them?" Stoddard responded:
Quote from "Sam Stoddard" »
Many of the cards on the banned list in Modern are there because they make the format less diverse instead of more diverse. Adding a card like Glimpse of Nature doesn't add one deck to the format; it likely eliminates a lot of other decks from being competitive. As the format gets larger and larger, I think there will be room to re-add some of the cards on the banned list back into the format. For what I hope are obvious reasons, I don't think it would be good for me to go through the entire banned list and stack rank how likely each card is to come off in the next two years. One hint, though: I wouldn't get my hopes up about Skullclamp anytime soon.
1. There are at least 2 cards ("some of the cards") on the banlist R&D is eventually interested in adding back to Modern.
2. Unbans shouldn't make other decks no longer competitive. Note that Stoddard doesn't say unbans should not make decks LESS competitive. Just that unbans shouldn't remove decks from being some degree of competitive.
3. Glimpse of Nature will probably never be unbanned.
4. Skullclamp will probably never be unbanned.
Kind of disappointing. To some extent, it's better than nothing, but I really wish Wizards staff would be more open with their Modern management.
he probably just read the thing about blue decks/control sucking, and then just laughed and said to himself "yep and that's never gonna change"
this little snippet from what he said pretty much tells me there probably wont be any unbans this year.
on top of that, anything good for blue control entering modern through standard is a farcry away
blue just gonna have to wait another year or more, and im personally done waiting
I hate to say this blue players, but I think its time we give up hope
I think they are intentionally vague because I bet they are very unwilling to unban anything, unless it's absolutely necessary, soothes the flames from a controversial ban or is completely non-consequential, something like Sword of the Meek.
If the last twelve months have taught me anything is that Wizards' priority is first and foremost selling packs ( duh, they are a business! ) before the health of Modern. Unbanning a card such as Jace would steal the thunder or almost completely invalidate any Blue planeswalker they have planned, so they'll remind the audience ( whom at this point probably never played against Jace back then ) that this card is too good and not worth the risk. Same is true for Splinter Twin, as they probably want players to look to new Standard sets for options like Spell Queller and Nahiri other than just contently playing with the tried and true deck that they have enjoyed for years.
I know it sounds like tinfoil hat conspiracy, but that's how I see their lack of communication regarding Modern.
on blue: this is exactly where my head is at aswell. blue/control is screwed imo, and this game is not going to change from the linear dominated game it is today to accomodate this.
I remember when a pal at my lgs sold out of modern when twin got banned( he played alot of diff blue decks) and I asked why? and he said: because blue is dead. while he may not be 100% right he isnt far off
No, Modern and or control isn't screwed. It's just Wotc wants to solve that problem by design instead of unbans because that pushes more product. It just means Twin hopefuls are more out of luck for now until something suitable comes down the pipes.
No, Modern and or control isn't screwed. It's just Wotc wants to solve that problem by design instead of unbans because that pushes more product. It just means Twin hopefuls are more out of luck for now until something suitable comes down the pipes.
modern isnt screwed true, not if you like it as is . but blue control is certainly not getting better anytime soon (hint: its pretty bad now.) you can sugar coat that all you want
In others news, guess it's a bad day to be an Elf fan in Modern or the handful of Skullclamp hopefuls in Modern.
I get what you're saying, but I'd say it's actually a great day to be an Elf fan in Modern! As long as GR Tron doesn't end up becoming 20%+ of the meta, at any rate.
Private Mod Note
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Well, Stoddard did address Modern in the mailbag column, but not in a very decisive or particularly helpful manner. Responding to our own Shmanka's question of "Why are you continuously banning cards in Modern, instead of unbanning them?" Stoddard responded:
Quote from "Sam Stoddard" »
Many of the cards on the banned list in Modern are there because they make the format less diverse instead of more diverse. Adding a card like Glimpse of Nature doesn't add one deck to the format; it likely eliminates a lot of other decks from being competitive. As the format gets larger and larger, I think there will be room to re-add some of the cards on the banned list back into the format. For what I hope are obvious reasons, I don't think it would be good for me to go through the entire banned list and stack rank how likely each card is to come off in the next two years. One hint, though: I wouldn't get my hopes up about Skullclamp anytime soon.
1. There are at least 2 cards ("some of the cards") on the banlist R&D is eventually interested in adding back to Modern.
2. Unbans shouldn't make other decks no longer competitive. Note that Stoddard doesn't say unbans should not make decks LESS competitive. Just that unbans shouldn't remove decks from being some degree of competitive.
3. Glimpse of Nature will probably never be unbanned.
4. Skullclamp will probably never be unbanned.
Kind of disappointing. To some extent, it's better than nothing, but I really wish Wizards staff would be more open with their Modern management.
ermmm... Glimpse of Nature would 'remove' decks from the format? As in?...
yeah. I thought so. It would only bring Elves a bit up. And without Natural Order, DRS and Zenith... yeah. A true monster.
Is it the fault from audience?
I would say the WOTC should improve their communication skill or style, in order to prevent misunderstandings.
For some reason, they avoid doing clarification or responding the question in a simple / direct way.
My opinion is the blame for miscommunication is shared, that the populace generally is bad at interpreting written content and that WOTC is bad at producing it. But even when organizations are good at it, people will interpret badly and freak out, make assumptions, game the "system," etc.
If WOTC were to for example share the entire framework they use for making decisions on bans, the public would rapidly crowdsource that and know, assume and expect their decisions before they're made. Fundamentally Wizards is metric driven but also qualitative in the way they make decisions about the format; there's an element of feel that is hard to codify.
I've tried to discuss this concept before but when ideas like set design/format design get out into the wild they tend to become extremely, er, homogenized, maybe is the word.
The comparison I tend to make is that a crowdsourced/community managed banlist would probably be like Nickelback. Lots of people would kinda like it, it'd have all the elements of alt-rock you'd expect, and it'd follow all the rules -- but it wouldn't be what made the early alternative bands great.
Do people expect them to give examples of what might come off? This would cause buyouts and uproar even more. Look at what happened with thopter/sword prices lol. Wotc will never be able to please people it's that simple.
Do people expect them to give examples of what might come off? This would cause buyouts and uproar even more. Look at what happened with thopter/sword prices lol. Wotc will never be able to please people it's that simple.
That's going to happen no matter what comes off. AV was $6 and now it's $50. There's a reason I bought 3 playsets of Preordain for like $5 each set, and stocked up on $2 Splinter Twins, and picked up $10 Stoneforge Mystics. No matter what comes off the banned list, it is going to EXPLODE in price. The first playset of each is for me, so I don't have to pay inflated prices, the second+ playets are to recoup the costs of all the crap I've spent this year experimenting and buying pieces to make various URx decks.
Also, it's pretty easy to see why people are not pleased with the SOTM unban... it did literally nothing. I don't think a single competitive deck has made any notable performance since being unbanned. And as for AV, while it's awesome to have, it's done very little overall besides elevate a wholly and completely irrelevant deck to a kind-of, sort-of, sometimes-relevant Tier 2 deck. And the irony is that the most successful deck that would want to run it (Grixis Delver) often doesn't even run ANY copies.
Also, it's pretty easy to see why people are not pleased with the SOTM unban... it did literally nothing. I don't think a single competitive deck has made any notable performance since being unbanned. And as for AV, while it's awesome to have, it's done very little overall besides elevate a wholly and completely irrelevant deck to a kind-of, sort-of, sometimes-relevant Tier 2 deck. And the irony is that the most successful deck that would want to run it (Grixis Delver) often doesn't even run ANY copies.
Your hyperbole is unnecessary to get the point across - Thopter/sword and AV were not enough to get a Uxx reactive deck into tier 1. We get it. But words have meaning, and to say the cards did "literally nothing" makes it hard to have a good conversation, because it's easy to disprove and therefore distracting from a valid concern. Moreover, your dismissive attitude towards Grixis continues to undercut your credibility. You could just as easily, and infinitely more credibly, claim that it is not tier 1 strong and insufficient for your purposes. But to dismiss grixis control as irrelevant when it does post results fairly regularly is obtuse.
How about we stop misrepresenting the situation (especially with hyperbolic statements about how a tier 2 deck is "irrelevant", how a card did "literally nothing", Uxx reactive is terrible, etc)? It would go a long way to improving the discourse in this thread.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Also, it's pretty easy to see why people are not pleased with the SOTM unban... it did literally nothing. I don't think a single competitive deck has made any notable performance since being unbanned. And as for AV, while it's awesome to have, it's done very little overall besides elevate a wholly and completely irrelevant deck to a kind-of, sort-of, sometimes-relevant Tier 2 deck. And the irony is that the most successful deck that would want to run it (Grixis Delver) often doesn't even run ANY copies.
Your hyperbole is unnecessary to get the point across - Thopter/sword and AV were not enough to get a Uxx reactive deck into tier 1. We get it. But words have meaning, and to say the cards did "literally nothing" makes it hard to have a good conversation, because it's easy to disprove and therefore distracting from a valid concern. Moreover, your dismissive attitude towards Grixis continues to undercut your credibility. You could just as easily, and infinitely more credibly, claim that it is not tier 1 strong and insufficient for your purposes. But to dismiss grixis control as irrelevant when it does post results fairly regularly is obtuse.
How about we stop misrepresenting the situation (especially with hyperbolic statements about how a tier 2 deck is "irrelevant", how a card did "literally nothing", Uxx reactive is terrible, etc)? It would go a long way to improving the discourse in this thread.
But if we removed misrepresentation and hyperbole, we would lose 50-60% of the posts in this thread (some of mine included).
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
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Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
The problem with Ceremonious Rejection is that Eldrazi plays Cavern of Souls, Tron capitalizes on cast triggers, and there are much more effective cards to deal with both Affinity and Lantern. Rejection is mostly garbage.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/aether-revolt-mailbag-2017-02-17
From this, I'd conclude:
1. There are at least 2 cards ("some of the cards") on the banlist R&D is eventually interested in adding back to Modern.
2. Unbans shouldn't make other decks no longer competitive. Note that Stoddard doesn't say unbans should not make decks LESS competitive. Just that unbans shouldn't remove decks from being some degree of competitive.
3. Glimpse of Nature will probably never be unbanned.
4. Skullclamp will probably never be unbanned.
Kind of disappointing. To some extent, it's better than nothing, but I really wish Wizards staff would be more open with their Modern management.
WOTC has more knowledge (or confidence) about the ban based on the their data collected in the current META.
But they have no much knowledge to say or to guess what is the impact to the BETA when they unban a card.
In order to make less mistakes, they prefer doing more bans than unbans to fix the problem in Modern.
I believe the entire Modern community can do a better job than WOTC to manage the ban list , unfortunately, WOTC does not take it seriously.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
Lots of softball questions and soft, non-answers. Not like I expected anything more from the article, but at least they imply stuff should be coming off the banned list eventually.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
If we persist in requesting information, maybe they will get the hint. Look at the regular suspects in this thread, its a tiny portion of the player base that is continuing to ask for information.
Spirits
To be fair, I do own a bunch of Skullclamps... but mostly because they are great in token and artifact strategies in Commander.
I agree though that his answer effectively tells us nothing of value.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
I'm more curious in what he meant by "re-add." Does that only mean cards that were legal in Modern before then banned, such as Preordain, Splinter Twin, or Bloodbraid Elf, and that cards on the original list aren't up for consideration anymore? I know Sam doesn't want to give clues in what they are considering in fears that players will buy out those cards but that vagueness is going to bother me until he clarifies, which is likely never.
In others news, guess it's a bad day to be an Elf fan in Modern or the handful of Skullclamp hopefuls in Modern.
Something that's taken me a long time to learn in my professional life is that the vast majority of people do not read content longer than a sentence very well.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Is it the fault from audience?
I would say the WOTC should improve their communication skill or style, in order to prevent misunderstandings.
For some reason, they avoid doing clarification or responding the question in a simple / direct way.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
If the last twelve months have taught me anything is that Wizards' priority is first and foremost selling packs ( duh, they are a business! ) before the health of Modern. Unbanning a card such as Jace would steal the thunder or almost completely invalidate any Blue planeswalker they have planned, so they'll remind the audience ( whom at this point probably never played against Jace back then ) that this card is too good and not worth the risk. Same is true for Splinter Twin, as they probably want players to look to new Standard sets for options like Spell Queller and Nahiri other than just contently playing with the tried and true deck that they have enjoyed for years.
I know it sounds like tinfoil hat conspiracy, but that's how I see their lack of communication regarding Modern.
he probably just read the thing about blue decks/control sucking, and then just laughed and said to himself "yep and that's never gonna change"
this little snippet from what he said pretty much tells me there probably wont be any unbans this year.
on top of that, anything good for blue control entering modern through standard is a farcry away
blue just gonna have to wait another year or more, and im personally done waiting
I hate to say this blue players, but I think its time we give up hope
decks playing:
none
on blue: this is exactly where my head is at aswell. blue/control is screwed imo, and this game is not going to change from the linear dominated game it is today to accomodate this.
I remember when a pal at my lgs sold out of modern when twin got banned( he played alot of diff blue decks) and I asked why? and he said: because blue is dead. while he may not be 100% right he isnt far off
I should have joined him then.
I think im going to join him now
decks playing:
none
modern isnt screwed true, not if you like it as is . but blue control is certainly not getting better anytime soon (hint: its pretty bad now.) you can sugar coat that all you want
decks playing:
none
I get what you're saying, but I'd say it's actually a great day to be an Elf fan in Modern!
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
I've faced Esper, Grixis, and even Sultai, because people WANT to play blue.
Me, I'm back on Turns for scratching that itch, Salt be damned, people need to know when to concede...
Spirits
ermmm... Glimpse of Nature would 'remove' decks from the format? As in?...
yeah. I thought so. It would only bring Elves a bit up. And without Natural Order, DRS and Zenith... yeah. A true monster.
My opinion is the blame for miscommunication is shared, that the populace generally is bad at interpreting written content and that WOTC is bad at producing it. But even when organizations are good at it, people will interpret badly and freak out, make assumptions, game the "system," etc.
If WOTC were to for example share the entire framework they use for making decisions on bans, the public would rapidly crowdsource that and know, assume and expect their decisions before they're made. Fundamentally Wizards is metric driven but also qualitative in the way they make decisions about the format; there's an element of feel that is hard to codify.
I've tried to discuss this concept before but when ideas like set design/format design get out into the wild they tend to become extremely, er, homogenized, maybe is the word.
The comparison I tend to make is that a crowdsourced/community managed banlist would probably be like Nickelback. Lots of people would kinda like it, it'd have all the elements of alt-rock you'd expect, and it'd follow all the rules -- but it wouldn't be what made the early alternative bands great.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
That's going to happen no matter what comes off. AV was $6 and now it's $50. There's a reason I bought 3 playsets of Preordain for like $5 each set, and stocked up on $2 Splinter Twins, and picked up $10 Stoneforge Mystics. No matter what comes off the banned list, it is going to EXPLODE in price. The first playset of each is for me, so I don't have to pay inflated prices, the second+ playets are to recoup the costs of all the crap I've spent this year experimenting and buying pieces to make various URx decks.
Also, it's pretty easy to see why people are not pleased with the SOTM unban... it did literally nothing. I don't think a single competitive deck has made any notable performance since being unbanned. And as for AV, while it's awesome to have, it's done very little overall besides elevate a wholly and completely irrelevant deck to a kind-of, sort-of, sometimes-relevant Tier 2 deck. And the irony is that the most successful deck that would want to run it (Grixis Delver) often doesn't even run ANY copies.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
How about we stop misrepresenting the situation (especially with hyperbolic statements about how a tier 2 deck is "irrelevant", how a card did "literally nothing", Uxx reactive is terrible, etc)? It would go a long way to improving the discourse in this thread.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
But if we removed misrepresentation and hyperbole, we would lose 50-60% of the posts in this thread (some of mine included).
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."