I still remember the wins. They were hards with 1-2 Summer Bloom, 1-2 Ancient Stirrings, 1 Summoner's Pact or Primeval Titan(Iok could not take that), lands/tolarias etc. IoK would take whatever. Stirrings would find an Amulet and I would go off with all of the pieces. This was a classic hand that Jund could not cope with.
So 6-7 card god hands are your argument for why GBx couldn't handle it??.............. ... ... .
That could have just as easily been, Inquisiton a Bloom. Decay an Amulet. Land a Lili, Then land a Goyf and beatdown for the win..
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
All I know, was that if I was on Twin, and it was Bloom, I knew I had to be the aggressor, because if I didnt push a T4 Twin, it was over. The deck was fast, (in terms of Turns taken) to deny it is...odd.
Ahhh, the funniest thing about Bloom was this: Simic Growth Chamber, Summer Bloom, Hive Mind, Summoner's Pact, Simian Spirit Guide, Amulet of Vigor: A clean Turn 1 kill. /irony
Woah. 6 card combo. I'm def rippin that every game..... Not.
Also most lists didn't run SSG... Generally speaking only some of the earlier lists ran any SSG, and the ones that did usually only ran 1 or 2 copies...
Because sure, it gave you freak hands like that, but made the deck wildly less consistent. SSG quickly fell out of favor.
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Also woah, 4 card combos to power out a t3 thragtusk... GAME BREAKING.
All I know, was that if I was on Twin, and it was Bloom, I knew I had to be the aggressor, because if I didnt push a T4 Twin, it was over. The deck was fast, (in terms of Turns taken) to deny it is...odd.
It's not odd though, because it's not a fast combo deck.
It's a grindy deck, with an insane amount of inevitability. You felt pressure to win fast because of it's inevitability. If you gave the deck time, IT WILL go bigger than you, and you won't out resource it. Very rarely you could cheat out a fast win, but at it's core, it's a grind deck. So many of my matches went to time because of just how grindy the deck is.
Ban Summer Bloom all you want. That's not my argument. It wasn't as fast as 2 videos on youtube make everyone think it was.
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
Yeah but it would go bigger, very quickly. It wasnt grinding out wins over 15 turns. I watched the videos and because I play MTGO I was playing against it a lot. I think our definitions of 'grindy' maybe different
Ok, then Amulet Titan deck was not a fast combo deck. Yet WOTC banned it out as a fast combo deck. Are they lying? Are the data Sheridan put up false? Is he lying as well? What happened there?
2 videos on camera where dude drew the most god hand of god hands, and the entire community went ape *****, and wizards was forced to do something.
Insanely ironically before those videos, the general consensus among the entire community on Bloom Titan was that it was just some bad, super inconsistent deck, that would get occasional lucky wins, and only bad players played such a bad deck.... Then literally overnight it became the boogeyman.
The deck was crazy powerful. Not denying that. That's why I played the deck for years when everyone told me it wasn't even a real deck, that it was garbage, when I would get laughed at, and kicked out of rooms for playing such a "bad" deck. The deck was and is crazy powerful. No denying that.
Not a fast combo deck though.
Occasional, Rare Hivemind kills, OK sure. Maybe....
6 card, Double Amulet, Titan combo sequence kills? Not so much.
I feel like rebanning GGT would make WOTC look bad
I would lose my ***** over SFM being unbanned, but that's the bias in me. I bought 3 foils of her because I really don't want to her to become 65 to 120 over night. If she's unbanned, I lose out on having to buy 1 foil (which is still a lot of money)
I think SFM would certainly power up blue cards, probably not as much as preordain, but preordain also has the side-effect of powering up decks that lack interactivity, which is what WOTC is attempting to avoid. Preordain may not push the established combo decks too hard though. It depends on what WOTC wants to do
I really hate that Kutcher cherry-picked my quote when my feelings were similar to Sheridan about reducing diversity. I also hate having to spread my SB even more thin now having to pack multiple land hate, GY hate and Affinity hate with little left to dedicate to, because of having a 70% chance of losing if I don't see my lottery ticket hate card, I really don't want games to come down to lucky sideboard cards
This is at least the fifth post I have read about you buying foil Stoneforge Mystics. Brag thread? 💁🏿
Didn't mean to misquote you, I literally just copy/pasted what you said.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
All I know, was that if I was on Twin, and it was Bloom, I knew I had to be the aggressor, because if I didnt push a T4 Twin, it was over. The deck was fast, (in terms of Turns taken) to deny it is...odd.
It's not odd though, because it's not a fast combo deck.
It's a grindy deck, with an insane amount of inevitability. You felt pressure to win fast because of it's inevitability. If you gave the deck time, IT WILL go bigger than you, and you won't out resource it. Very rarely you could cheat out a fast win, but at it's core, it's a grind deck. So many of my matches went to time because of just how grindy the deck is.
Ban Summer Bloom all you want. That's not my argument. It wasn't as fast as 2 videos on youtube make everyone think it was.
That's just the thing though. Having a deck with the absolute most inevitability in the format ALSO capable of T2 or T3 kills, no matter at what frequency, is simply a deal breaker.
Like most decks/cards (especially Twin) it's not just 1 thing that gets it banned. It's a combination of lots of things, some of which can be "on the line" instead of over it.
Junk receiving the new fastlands was a breathe of fresh air for the deck. Push becoming the black lightning bolt certainly helps. I imagine 1 path will be cut, and the average deck will play 3, even 4 since it functions like bolt (not that I'm claiming it's better than bolt).
Flayer synergies well with souls, but maybe if junk lowers it's curve we could see Bob back in junk. Or siege rhino becomes bad and we see some Mish mash of Bob and flayer
Jund will stay tier 1, but I really think junks going to become the better Gbx deck until a new card is introduced for jund
I wouldn't bother practicing with the junk builds using noble, she's definitely getting removed in favor of push.
Junk receiving the new fastlands was a breathe of fresh air for the deck. Push becoming the black lightning bolt certainly helps. I imagine 1 path will be cut, and the average deck will play 3, even 4 since it functions like bolt (not that I'm claiming it's better than bolt).
Flayer synergies well with souls, but maybe if junk lowers it's curve we could see Bob back in junk. Or siege rhino becomes bad and we see some Mish mash of Bob and flayer
Jund will stay tier 1, but I really think junks going to become the better Gbx deck until a new card is introduced for jund
I wouldn't bother practicing with the junk builds using noble, she's definitely getting removed in favor of push.
If Push becomes big and the format really embraces spot removal, Abzan definitely supplants Jund on just Souls. Let alone the Push and Bolt-proof Tasigur (EDIT)! As you said, Hierarch is probably not where you want to be in that removal-heavy format. All told, I also expect Abzan to take a midrange lead by April.
All I know, was that if I was on Twin, and it was Bloom, I knew I had to be the aggressor, because if I didnt push a T4 Twin, it was over. The deck was fast, (in terms of Turns taken) to deny it is...odd.
It's not odd though, because it's not a fast combo deck.
It's a grindy deck, with an insane amount of inevitability. You felt pressure to win fast because of it's inevitability. If you gave the deck time, IT WILL go bigger than you, and you won't out resource it. Very rarely you could cheat out a fast win, but at it's core, it's a grind deck. So many of my matches went to time because of just how grindy the deck is.
Ban Summer Bloom all you want. That's not my argument. It wasn't as fast as 2 videos on youtube make everyone think it was.
That's just the thing though. Having a deck with the absolute most inevitability in the format ALSO capable of T2 or T3 kills, no matter at what frequency, is simply a deal breaker.
Like most decks/cards (especially Twin) it's not just 1 thing that gets it banned. It's a combination of lots of things, some of which can be "on the line" instead of over it.
See, I can understand this part of the ban. Being able to kill quickly (though not often) and having a strong late game may have made the deck too strong. If Wizards had come out and straight said "It wins before Turn 4 around 10-12% of the time, but it can also drag out games on multiple axises that Modern struggles to deal with", I would have fully accepted that. That makes sense why the deck needed to be slowed down.
My only issue is with how the ban was communicated, placing all of the eggs on the pre-4 win percentage which was likely exaggerated.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Junk receiving the new fastlands was a breathe of fresh air for the deck. Push becoming the black lightning bolt certainly helps. I imagine 1 path will be cut, and the average deck will play 3, even 4 since it functions like bolt (not that I'm claiming it's better than bolt).
Flayer synergies well with souls, but maybe if junk lowers it's curve we could see Bob back in junk. Or siege rhino becomes bad and we see some Mish mash of Bob and flayer
Jund will stay tier 1, but I really think junks going to become the better Gbx deck until a new card is introduced for jund
I wouldn't bother practicing with the junk builds using noble, she's definitely getting removed in favor of push.
If Push becomes big and the format really embraces spot removal, Abzan definitely supplants Jund on just Souls. Let alone the Push and Bolt-proof Rhino! As you said, Hierarch is probably not where you want to be in that removal-heavy format. All told, I also expect Abzan to take a midrange lead by April.
Just as I write that, Junk takes the MOCS.
I still think she won't do well, more decks bolting the bird, and having 6 discards, 3 nobles, and 3 to 4 pushes is conflicting.
Siege Rhino isn't protected by push, it's 4 mana. Tasigur could become a thing again in Junk. I really don't know if the deck will start running bobs, flayers, both, or cut the rhino's completely and play 1 or 2 Tasigurs
I have the spell and mana base kinda figured out, for the new meta not so much the creatures though
I think it's serious and discrediting that you're kind of calling WOTC liars about their hard facts and findings
You're also discrediting Sheridan, who had very similar numbers to WOTC's
Don't engage Bloom defenders. Just ignore anything about Bloom and stick with more relevant and interesting conversation.
I'm personally comfortable with no unbans in this update, just to see what Push accomplishes and how a (potential) Dredge ban plays out. This would also allow Wizards to make a hyped unban in April just before MM2017 released.
Re: Rhino and Push
Whoops, meant Tasigur, not Rhino. Tas is much better in Abzan than in Jund.
I think it's serious and discrediting that you're kind of calling WOTC liars about their hard facts and findings
You're also discrediting Sheridan, who had very similar numbers to WOTC's
Don't engage Bloom defenders. Just ignore anything about Bloom and stick with more relevant and interesting conversation.
I'm personally comfortable with no unbans in this update, just to see what Push accomplishes and how a (potential) Dredge ban plays out. This would also allow Wizards to make a hyped unban in April just before MM2017 released.
Re: Rhino and Push
Whoops, meant Tasigur, not Rhino. Tas is much better in Abzan than in Jund.
Wow... this kind of elitist attitude from a moderator.
I didn't realize that gave you all knowing power to discuss relevant bans and unbans. Or are people only allowed to debate banned cards if you personally grace them with your almighty decisions from atop Mount Olympus?
You have the attitude of a child.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I think it's serious and discrediting that you're kind of calling WOTC liars about their hard facts and findings
You're also discrediting Sheridan, who had very similar numbers to WOTC's
Don't engage Bloom defenders. Just ignore anything about Bloom and stick with more relevant and interesting conversation.
I'm personally comfortable with no unbans in this update, just to see what Push accomplishes and how a (potential) Dredge ban plays out. This would also allow Wizards to make a hyped unban in April just before MM2017 released.
Re: Rhino and Push
Whoops, meant Tasigur, not Rhino. Tas is much better in Abzan than in Jund.
Wow... this kind of elitist attitude from a moderator.
I didn't realize that gave you all knowing power to discuss relevant bans and unbans. Or are people only allowed to debate banned cards if you personally grace them with your almighty decisions from atop Mount Olympus?
You have the attitude of a child.
Again, calm down. You are very close to trolling and/or flaming in this post and others. Take a breather and tone it down.
At no point did I say the topic isn't allowed. I just think there are more interesting and open topics that aren't closed books. I'm trying to steer the conversation to those exciting topics instead.
I think it's serious and discrediting that you're kind of calling WOTC liars about their hard facts and findings
You're also discrediting Sheridan, who had very similar numbers to WOTC's
Don't engage Bloom defenders. Just ignore anything about Bloom and stick with more relevant and interesting conversation.
I'm personally comfortable with no unbans in this update, just to see what Push accomplishes and how a (potential) Dredge ban plays out. This would also allow Wizards to make a hyped unban in April just before MM2017 released.
Re: Rhino and Push
Whoops, meant Tasigur, not Rhino. Tas is much better in Abzan than in Jund.
Wow... this kind of elitist attitude from a moderator.
I didn't realize that gave you all knowing power to discuss relevant bans and unbans. Or are people only allowed to debate banned cards if you personally grace them with your almighty decisions from atop Mount Olympus?
You have the attitude of a child.
The problem is that in order to have a civil conversation and have an informative talk you need to put a filter. We could discuss Skullclamp, Hypergenesis and Bloom all day. Would it be productive? Not much. I know it seems kind of hard on the player base but not everyone is going to be happy. I had Bloom on paper. When it was banned it really took a hit on my perspective of the format, and although i'm on the more conservative side and i'm getting rid of my Modern cards with the exception of one deck, i understand why some cards or strategies can't be viable in this game. After all, my reasoning behind buying Bloom was: "Hey that deck wins on Turn 3, even T2 and it's very complicated, i'm going to master it and have a lot of fun". This was right after PT FRF. Then it catched some steam and pro's broke it. The deck was too good no matter how much we love it.
It's just a matter of productivity in our conversations. When this happens, not everyone's opinion is "respected" the same way.
I think it's serious and discrediting that you're kind of calling WOTC liars about their hard facts and findings
You're also discrediting Sheridan, who had very similar numbers to WOTC's
Don't engage Bloom defenders. Just ignore anything about Bloom and stick with more relevant and interesting conversation.
I'm personally comfortable with no unbans in this update, just to see what Push accomplishes and how a (potential) Dredge ban plays out. This would also allow Wizards to make a hyped unban in April just before MM2017 released.
Re: Rhino and Push
Whoops, meant Tasigur, not Rhino. Tas is much better in Abzan than in Jund.
Wow... this kind of elitist attitude from a moderator.
I didn't realize that gave you all knowing power to discuss relevant bans and unbans. Or are people only allowed to debate banned cards if you personally grace them with your almighty decisions from atop Mount Olympus?
You have the attitude of a child.
Again, calm down. You are very close to trolling and/or flaming in this post and others. Take a breather and tone it down.
At no point did I say the topic isn't allowed. I just think there are more interesting and open topics that aren't closed books. I'm trying to steer the conversation to those exciting topics instead.
Except that's not what you said. You explicitly told them to ignore any and all conversation about the topic. As a representative of this website no less.
I get that you agree with the banning of Bloom 10000%. But using your power to silence dissension on the topic (since people are supposed to listen to the mods) is complete horse crap.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Modern is on the verge on changing with the new spot removal, and we are talking about if Modern's fastest deck of all times was violating the T4 rule. It's such a pity. The hot issue now is how is Fatal Push going to Shape ANew Modern. Specifically:
What are the implications on a possible SFM unban?
What are the implications on creature based aggro decks, like Infect/UR Prowess/Zooicide/etc? Is the card a pain in the butt for them? Probably yes.
Is the card slowing the format down? Jordan Boisvert wrote an interesting piece in Modern Nexus about this particularly subject, (Link HERE)
Exciting times in front of us. Let's not dwell on the past.
Important Note: As the Banlist Announcement is coming up in a week, don't forget to vote in the correspoding pollHERE
"Faster decks of all times"
The level of hyperbole is over 9000!!!!!
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I think it's serious and discrediting that you're kind of calling WOTC liars about their hard facts and findings
You're also discrediting Sheridan, who had very similar numbers to WOTC's
Don't engage Bloom defenders. Just ignore anything about Bloom and stick with more relevant and interesting conversation.
I'm personally comfortable with no unbans in this update, just to see what Push accomplishes and how a (potential) Dredge ban plays out. This would also allow Wizards to make a hyped unban in April just before MM2017 released.
Re: Rhino and Push
Whoops, meant Tasigur, not Rhino. Tas is much better in Abzan than in Jund.
Wow... this kind of elitist attitude from a moderator.
I didn't realize that gave you all knowing power to discuss relevant bans and unbans. Or are people only allowed to debate banned cards if you personally grace them with your almighty decisions from atop Mount Olympus?
You have the attitude of a child.
The problem is that in order to have a civil conversation and have an informative talk you need to put a filter. We could discuss Skullclamp, Hypergenesis and Bloom all day. Would it be productive? Not much. I know it seems kind of hard on the player base but not everyone is going to be happy. I had Bloom on paper. When it was banned it really took a hit on my perspective of the format, and although i'm on the more conservative side and i'm getting rid of my Modern cards with the exception of one deck, i understand why some cards or strategies can't be viable in this game. After all, my reasoning behind buying Bloom was: "Hey that deck wins on Turn 3, even T2 and it's very complicated, i'm going to master it and have a lot of fun". This was right after PT FRF. Then it catched some steam and pro's broke it. The deck was too good no matter how much we love it.
It's just a matter of productivity in our conversations. When this happens, not everyone's opinion is "respected" the same way.
The fact that you're willing to put it in the same category of two of the broken cards in Modern's history says a lot about the misperceptions about the Bloom deck. I'm not surprised. People have this crazy fear of the deck that I can't possibly understand.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I think it's serious and discrediting that you're kind of calling WOTC liars about their hard facts and findings
You're also discrediting Sheridan, who had very similar numbers to WOTC's
Don't engage Bloom defenders. Just ignore anything about Bloom and stick with more relevant and interesting conversation.
I'm personally comfortable with no unbans in this update, just to see what Push accomplishes and how a (potential) Dredge ban plays out. This would also allow Wizards to make a hyped unban in April just before MM2017 released.
Re: Rhino and Push
Whoops, meant Tasigur, not Rhino. Tas is much better in Abzan than in Jund.
Wow... this kind of elitist attitude from a moderator.
I didn't realize that gave you all knowing power to discuss relevant bans and unbans. Or are people only allowed to debate banned cards if you personally grace them with your almighty decisions from atop Mount Olympus?
You have the attitude of a child.
The problem is that in order to have a civil conversation and have an informative talk you need to put a filter. We could discuss Skullclamp, Hypergenesis and Bloom all day. Would it be productive? Not much. I know it seems kind of hard on the player base but not everyone is going to be happy. I had Bloom on paper. When it was banned it really took a hit on my perspective of the format, and although i'm on the more conservative side and i'm getting rid of my Modern cards with the exception of one deck, i understand why some cards or strategies can't be viable in this game. After all, my reasoning behind buying Bloom was: "Hey that deck wins on Turn 3, even T2 and it's very complicated, i'm going to master it and have a lot of fun". This was right after PT FRF. Then it catched some steam and pro's broke it. The deck was too good no matter how much we love it.
It's just a matter of productivity in our conversations. When this happens, not everyone's opinion is "respected" the same way.
The fact that you're willing to put it in the same category of two of the broken cards in Modern's history says a lot about the misperceptions about the Bloom deck. I'm not surprised. People have this crazy fear of the deck that I can't possibly understand.
It was absolutely illustratrive. I don't post too much on this thread despite loving the topic, because there is too much noise.
You're right though. Bloom is not on that category. I think it's as "bannable" as Dredge is right now. For that i think a "No changes" would be pretty bad for the Modern format.
Teysa I really want to talk about Fatal Push in this thread. Instead, those quality posts are getting lost in the noise of triple/quad posts of yours. Don't you think what I am talking about here is fair enough?
I am sure you understand Modern is on the verge of changing with the new card, and we are in front of the "Traditionally Big" January announcement.
What do you think is more important for the format?
Discussing about a card that's not coming back?
Discussing about the new spot removal that has literally HUGE implication on the metagame?
Regards.
I'm not great with the multi-quote feature. I can't seem to get it to work right.
I wouldn't be blowing a gasket right now if the moderator didn't just tell people to ignore me. I don't expect Bloom to get unbanned. I don't want it unbanned. I just wish Wizards had been more clear on the reason for the banning. I didn't bring up Bloom, but I see a lot of incorrect information and want to fix it.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
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So 6-7 card god hands are your argument for why GBx couldn't handle it??.............. ... ... .
That could have just as easily been, Inquisiton a Bloom. Decay an Amulet. Land a Lili, Then land a Goyf and beatdown for the win..
Spirits
Woah. 6 card combo. I'm def rippin that every game..... Not.
Also most lists didn't run SSG... Generally speaking only some of the earlier lists ran any SSG, and the ones that did usually only ran 1 or 2 copies...
Because sure, it gave you freak hands like that, but made the deck wildly less consistent. SSG quickly fell out of favor.
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Also woah, 4 card combos to power out a t3 thragtusk... GAME BREAKING.
It's not odd though, because it's not a fast combo deck.
It's a grindy deck, with an insane amount of inevitability. You felt pressure to win fast because of it's inevitability. If you gave the deck time, IT WILL go bigger than you, and you won't out resource it. Very rarely you could cheat out a fast win, but at it's core, it's a grind deck. So many of my matches went to time because of just how grindy the deck is.
Ban Summer Bloom all you want. That's not my argument. It wasn't as fast as 2 videos on youtube make everyone think it was.
Spirits
2 videos on camera where dude drew the most god hand of god hands, and the entire community went ape *****, and wizards was forced to do something.
Insanely ironically before those videos, the general consensus among the entire community on Bloom Titan was that it was just some bad, super inconsistent deck, that would get occasional lucky wins, and only bad players played such a bad deck.... Then literally overnight it became the boogeyman.
The deck was crazy powerful. Not denying that. That's why I played the deck for years when everyone told me it wasn't even a real deck, that it was garbage, when I would get laughed at, and kicked out of rooms for playing such a "bad" deck. The deck was and is crazy powerful. No denying that.
Not a fast combo deck though.
Occasional, Rare Hivemind kills, OK sure. Maybe....
6 card, Double Amulet, Titan combo sequence kills? Not so much.
Didn't mean to misquote you, I literally just copy/pasted what you said.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Like most decks/cards (especially Twin) it's not just 1 thing that gets it banned. It's a combination of lots of things, some of which can be "on the line" instead of over it.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Flayer synergies well with souls, but maybe if junk lowers it's curve we could see Bob back in junk. Or siege rhino becomes bad and we see some Mish mash of Bob and flayer
Jund will stay tier 1, but I really think junks going to become the better Gbx deck until a new card is introduced for jund
I wouldn't bother practicing with the junk builds using noble, she's definitely getting removed in favor of push.
If Push becomes big and the format really embraces spot removal, Abzan definitely supplants Jund on just Souls. Let alone the Push and Bolt-proof Tasigur (EDIT)! As you said, Hierarch is probably not where you want to be in that removal-heavy format. All told, I also expect Abzan to take a midrange lead by April.
See, I can understand this part of the ban. Being able to kill quickly (though not often) and having a strong late game may have made the deck too strong. If Wizards had come out and straight said "It wins before Turn 4 around 10-12% of the time, but it can also drag out games on multiple axises that Modern struggles to deal with", I would have fully accepted that. That makes sense why the deck needed to be slowed down.
My only issue is with how the ban was communicated, placing all of the eggs on the pre-4 win percentage which was likely exaggerated.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You're also discrediting Sheridan, who had very similar numbers to WOTC's
It honestly wouldn't be the first time...
Why are we discussing Amulet Bloom?
Just as I write that, Junk takes the MOCS.
I still think she won't do well, more decks bolting the bird, and having 6 discards, 3 nobles, and 3 to 4 pushes is conflicting.
Siege Rhino isn't protected by push, it's 4 mana. Tasigur could become a thing again in Junk. I really don't know if the deck will start running bobs, flayers, both, or cut the rhino's completely and play 1 or 2 Tasigurs
I have the spell and mana base kinda figured out, for the new meta not so much the creatures though
Don't engage Bloom defenders. Just ignore anything about Bloom and stick with more relevant and interesting conversation.
I'm personally comfortable with no unbans in this update, just to see what Push accomplishes and how a (potential) Dredge ban plays out. This would also allow Wizards to make a hyped unban in April just before MM2017 released.
Re: Rhino and Push
Whoops, meant Tasigur, not Rhino. Tas is much better in Abzan than in Jund.
Wow... this kind of elitist attitude from a moderator.
I didn't realize that gave you all knowing power to discuss relevant bans and unbans. Or are people only allowed to debate banned cards if you personally grace them with your almighty decisions from atop Mount Olympus?
You have the attitude of a child.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Again, calm down. You are very close to trolling and/or flaming in this post and others. Take a breather and tone it down.
At no point did I say the topic isn't allowed. I just think there are more interesting and open topics that aren't closed books. I'm trying to steer the conversation to those exciting topics instead.
The problem is that in order to have a civil conversation and have an informative talk you need to put a filter. We could discuss Skullclamp, Hypergenesis and Bloom all day. Would it be productive? Not much. I know it seems kind of hard on the player base but not everyone is going to be happy. I had Bloom on paper. When it was banned it really took a hit on my perspective of the format, and although i'm on the more conservative side and i'm getting rid of my Modern cards with the exception of one deck, i understand why some cards or strategies can't be viable in this game. After all, my reasoning behind buying Bloom was: "Hey that deck wins on Turn 3, even T2 and it's very complicated, i'm going to master it and have a lot of fun". This was right after PT FRF. Then it catched some steam and pro's broke it. The deck was too good no matter how much we love it.
It's just a matter of productivity in our conversations. When this happens, not everyone's opinion is "respected" the same way.
Except that's not what you said. You explicitly told them to ignore any and all conversation about the topic. As a representative of this website no less.
I get that you agree with the banning of Bloom 10000%. But using your power to silence dissension on the topic (since people are supposed to listen to the mods) is complete horse crap.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
"Faster decks of all times"
The level of hyperbole is over 9000!!!!!
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
The fact that you're willing to put it in the same category of two of the broken cards in Modern's history says a lot about the misperceptions about the Bloom deck. I'm not surprised. People have this crazy fear of the deck that I can't possibly understand.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
It was absolutely illustratrive. I don't post too much on this thread despite loving the topic, because there is too much noise.
You're right though. Bloom is not on that category. I think it's as "bannable" as Dredge is right now. For that i think a "No changes" would be pretty bad for the Modern format.
I'm not great with the multi-quote feature. I can't seem to get it to work right.
I wouldn't be blowing a gasket right now if the moderator didn't just tell people to ignore me. I don't expect Bloom to get unbanned. I don't want it unbanned. I just wish Wizards had been more clear on the reason for the banning. I didn't bring up Bloom, but I see a lot of incorrect information and want to fix it.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."