Wow Fatal Push is huge for modern.
The card is pretty good even without active revolt (and with fetches that's actually quite easy to achieve). We speak about a card that efficiently deals with Tarmogoyf here. This is BIG.
I really hope we get to see more nice cards with the revolt mechanic. Seems like an awesome way for wizards to give us some modern playable cards that don't wreck standard. Maybe a counterspell? Something like Prohibit? Please Wizards?
THIS. Please give us a counterspell that does the same thing.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Am I seriously the first to make that joke on this subforum?
Okay anyways... What spell would this replace in Grixis and Jund?
I think it can give rise to BUG, I've toyed with the idea off and on but always got stuck on the lack of good removal. This fixes that.
I don't know about Grixis but in Jund I think it's only a 2 of. Slaughter Pact is probably the easiest swap, and perhaps a Kolaghan's for the second. This would lower the decks total CMC by 1 for Bob purposes, upgrade Pact to deal with things like Death's Shadow, and the Kolaghan's removes some vulnerability to Merfolk.
It's funny, because literally just yesterday I mentioned in the Jund thread that I would play straight BG if I could, but I didn't think that would ever be possible because Lightning Bolt is too strong. Just a day later I'm already rethinking that stance.
And it's ANOTHER double GP. They can't take multiple big events and spread them out for more coverage and a better picture of the evolving metagame?
Let's keep it on topic. I can see this spiraling into a bash-fest against Wizards' tourney schedule. Take it to the State of the Meta thread.
Although I think current/former Tier 1 decks are more likely to benefit from Push, I also think we'll see Esper and potentially even Sultai decks take advantage of this for a Tier 3 push. Maybe a Tier 2 push! Other fringe decks also benefit, and it's overall a great printing. Excellent start to Modern in 2017!
Another little synergy with Fatal Push: Jace, Vryn's Prodigy can flip and turn on Revolt for an immediate flashback.
Might actually make Jace playable in Modern? Glad I held on to my copies!
As KT said, I'm hoping a good Esper shell comes out of this. After UR/Grixis, Esper is my next favorite color combo.
I've got a BUG Midrange deck I've been working on for a few months. Basically it's Jund but with green rather than red. The deck hit a dead end though because Disfigure wasn't good enough as a removal spell and it just couldn't function without a really good 1 mana kill card. This makes me think I can go back to the concept. I'm definitely going to try it out.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if this makes Grixis T1. Everyone is talking about how this slots into something like Jund, but everyone is forgetting that this also kills every single creature in Jund. Fatal Push is just a good card, and it's something Modern really needed. I predict it slowing the meta down overall, and probably making Grixis Delver a T1 strategy.
We are so excited to test Fatal Push at the faeries thread and discord. the revolt clause is very easy to achieve with a bitterblossom token. The fact that this still kills earlygame goyfs delvers and infect creatures is a huge boon.
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Am I seriously the first to make that joke on this subforum?
Okay anyways... What spell would this replace in Grixis and Jund?
I think it can give rise to BUG, I've toyed with the idea off and on but always got stuck on the lack of good removal. This fixes that.
I don't know about Grixis but in Jund I think it's only a 2 of. Slaughter Pact is probably the easiest swap, and perhaps a Kolaghan's for the second. This would lower the decks total CMC by 1 for Bob purposes, upgrade Pact to deal with things like Death's Shadow, and the Kolaghan's removes some vulnerability to Merfolk.
It's funny, because literally just yesterday I mentioned in the Jund thread that I would play straight BG if I could, but I didn't think that would ever be possible because Lightning Bolt is too strong. Just a day later I'm already rethinking that stance.
I agree that if you're already playing Lightning Bolt, you probably won't play a full playset of Fatal Push. I could however actually see Grixis and Jund cutting down on 1 or even 2 copies of Terminate. At least in the current metagame Tasigur (or other Delve creatures) aren't so prevalent, Dredge is keeping Bant Eldrazi (Reality Smasher) down and when you face a Wurmcoil Engine Terminate won't help you most of the time anyway.
On another note I already like the thought of a new level of complexity when it comes to fetching (Do I fetch for a Shock EoT for better mana or can I allow myself to take the damage or just get a basic later in case I draw Fatal Push and want to activate Revolt).
Greenwheel Liberator and a fetchland is a nice budget goyf. Better if the oponents run gravyard hate.
I disagree. The main reasons that Goyf is so good are because he dodges Bolt, he's a superb topdeck as well as an on-curve threat and because he can trade favorably with pretty much any creature in combat without dying. This guy does none of those things. Goyf's only downside is that he takes a huge hit when people are packing Rest in Peace and Ravenous Trap to combat dread.
Most decks that actually run Goyf can't really afford running a budget version and other decks that run green that don't cost tons of $$$ don't even want Goyf.
Do you understand what the word budget means? Goyfs biggest problem is not graveyard hate, it is that he costs 150 dollars.
I'm just saying, decks that typically even want Goyf are expensive already. Anyone trying to be budget friendly should probably be avoiding those decks anyways, since they're a stack of high dollar cards that try to use the most efficient cards possible.
This is the card that is going to make me finally play black. I can't believe how good it is. Revolt is a pretty smart way to print cards with notably higher power-level in Modern and eternal formats without breaking Standard.
I like to see Fatal Push as a Black Spellsnare, however it gets even better with (2 or less) and (4 or less). Of course this doesn't kill non creatures, but if i remember well, snare was mostly used to stop ravager, eidolon, goyf, Bob, etc. Having a turn 1 answer to so many staples when you are on the play can be exactly what moat midrange decks need. Seriously considering going down tô 3 paths and 2 of this.
Fatal Push is Legacy Staple worthy. Absolutely INSANE card.
Best removal printed in years. Best removal in the format now. Everyone is gonna be splashing black for Push now. Completely insane card.
Kills damn near everything for 1 mana, with no drawback, and almost no set up.
Insane.
For Combo it single handily kills every single hatebear.
For Control and Midrange it kills nearly every threat.
Might be the best removal ever printed in the history of MTG to be completely honest.
I think Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolt want to have a word with you, but yeah Push is pretty darn good and I'm happy to see that Wizards is capable of designing cards that can pass through standard but have high potencial to be Modern staples for years to come.
There are some other misses like Bedlam Reveler in Prowess, a bunch of Living End critters, Archangel of Thune in various Chord decks, and some stuff like Thragtusk and Endbringer. But this mostly covers it.
Of these cards, the only ones that really matter are:
I'm not super worried about those misses because stuff like Dismember still sees play and only hits three of those four "must kill" targets, without all the early game benefits of Push. Bolt misses way more targets, but it's not a great comparison because Bolt can double-up to kill stuff and provides reach.
Overall, I see Push jumping between 2-4 copies depending on the metagame. Lots of big mana = fewer copies. More aggressive decks = more copies. Overall an excellent card that will make a huge Modern impact.
I'm not a fan of Fatal Push but maybe that is because I like creatures that cost more than 1cmc. Seriously though, the bolt test is real and this only makes the threshold for being a 3cmc+ playable creature that much higher.
What i'm curious about is which decks benefit most from Push? I guess what I'm asking is; what does Push push?
Seriously though, there are obviously tons of decks that will run this. Which ones benefit most from having reliable 1 drop instant speed creature removal?
Tier 1:
BGx will run it, but already had bolt for Jund and path for junk, so its an upgrade but not an earth shattering one. If either deck were to benefit most from it, I would guess Jund. Junk will play it to be sure, but Push handles several critters that Jund can't bolt, like goyfs. Then again, Jund had terminate so who knows.
Affinity won't run it
Infect won't run it
Burn won't run it
Dredge won't run it
Bant Eldrazi won't run it
Tier 2:
Tron won't run it
Merfolk won't run it
Jeskai Nahiri won't run it
Death and Taxes will run it, but already had path
Grixis Delver will run it, but already had bolt. That said, having a better answer for non-boltable targets will help.
Abzan CoCo will run it, but already had path
Zoo/DS Zoo will probably run it
Tier 3 and beyond:
BUG decks will probably all run it. I'm thinking here is where the biggest power increase will be seen. Before any deck that ran BUG or BU really didn't have reliable 1 drop removal, and now they have one of the best removal spells in the game. I don't know how many BUG decks there are, or how many were lurking on the fringes of playability, but it seems like a potent mix. Blue for CA/counters, Green for creatures and whatnot, black for removal now with Abrupt Decay as their main 2 drop removal and Push as their main 1 drop removal. Previously BUG's main removal was just decay.
I think Grixis Delver and BUG decks will probably see the biggest power boost from this. Maybe there are some decks lurking in the shadows that I haven't considered though.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Am I seriously the first to make that joke on this subforum?
Okay anyways... What spell would this replace in Grixis and Jund?
THIS. Please give us a counterspell that does the same thing.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I think it can give rise to BUG, I've toyed with the idea off and on but always got stuck on the lack of good removal. This fixes that.
I don't know about Grixis but in Jund I think it's only a 2 of. Slaughter Pact is probably the easiest swap, and perhaps a Kolaghan's for the second. This would lower the decks total CMC by 1 for Bob purposes, upgrade Pact to deal with things like Death's Shadow, and the Kolaghan's removes some vulnerability to Merfolk.
It's funny, because literally just yesterday I mentioned in the Jund thread that I would play straight BG if I could, but I didn't think that would ever be possible because Lightning Bolt is too strong. Just a day later I'm already rethinking that stance.
And it's ANOTHER double GP. They can't take multiple big events and spread them out for more coverage and a better picture of the evolving metagame?
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Let's keep it on topic. I can see this spiraling into a bash-fest against Wizards' tourney schedule. Take it to the State of the Meta thread.
Although I think current/former Tier 1 decks are more likely to benefit from Push, I also think we'll see Esper and potentially even Sultai decks take advantage of this for a Tier 3 push. Maybe a Tier 2 push! Other fringe decks also benefit, and it's overall a great printing. Excellent start to Modern in 2017!
Might actually make Jace playable in Modern? Glad I held on to my copies!
As KT said, I'm hoping a good Esper shell comes out of this. After UR/Grixis, Esper is my next favorite color combo.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I've got a BUG Midrange deck I've been working on for a few months. Basically it's Jund but with green rather than red. The deck hit a dead end though because Disfigure wasn't good enough as a removal spell and it just couldn't function without a really good 1 mana kill card. This makes me think I can go back to the concept. I'm definitely going to try it out.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if this makes Grixis T1. Everyone is talking about how this slots into something like Jund, but everyone is forgetting that this also kills every single creature in Jund. Fatal Push is just a good card, and it's something Modern really needed. I predict it slowing the meta down overall, and probably making Grixis Delver a T1 strategy.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
I agree that if you're already playing Lightning Bolt, you probably won't play a full playset of Fatal Push. I could however actually see Grixis and Jund cutting down on 1 or even 2 copies of Terminate. At least in the current metagame Tasigur (or other Delve creatures) aren't so prevalent, Dredge is keeping Bant Eldrazi (Reality Smasher) down and when you face a Wurmcoil Engine Terminate won't help you most of the time anyway.
On another note I already like the thought of a new level of complexity when it comes to fetching (Do I fetch for a Shock EoT for better mana or can I allow myself to take the damage or just get a basic later in case I draw Fatal Push and want to activate Revolt).
I disagree. The main reasons that Goyf is so good are because he dodges Bolt, he's a superb topdeck as well as an on-curve threat and because he can trade favorably with pretty much any creature in combat without dying. This guy does none of those things. Goyf's only downside is that he takes a huge hit when people are packing Rest in Peace and Ravenous Trap to combat dread.
Most decks that actually run Goyf can't really afford running a budget version and other decks that run green that don't cost tons of $$$ don't even want Goyf.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
I'm just saying, decks that typically even want Goyf are expensive already. Anyone trying to be budget friendly should probably be avoiding those decks anyways, since they're a stack of high dollar cards that try to use the most efficient cards possible.
CG
Best removal printed in years. Best removal in the format now. Everyone is gonna be splashing black for Push now. Completely insane card.
Kills damn near everything for 1 mana, with no drawback, and almost no set up.
Insane.
For Combo it single handily kills every single hatebear.
For Control and Midrange it kills nearly every threat.
Might be the best removal ever printed in the history of MTG to be completely honest.
I think Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolt want to have a word with you, but yeah Push is pretty darn good and I'm happy to see that Wizards is capable of designing cards that can pass through standard but have high potencial to be Modern staples for years to come.
I see what your saying though, they cover different angles.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang (Grixis Control/Midrange, Grixis Delver, BGx Midrange)
Gurmag Angler (Grixis Control/Midrange, Grixis Delver)
Wurmcoil Engine (Gx Tron)
World Breaker (Gx Tron)
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger (Gx Tron)
Golgari Grave-Troll (Dredge)
Etched Champion (Affinity)
Reality Smasher (Bant Eldrazi)
Drowner of Hope (Bant Eldrazi)
Primeval Titan (Breach Valakut)
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker (Kiki Chord)
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (Jeskai Control, some Breach decks)
There are some other misses like Bedlam Reveler in Prowess, a bunch of Living End critters, Archangel of Thune in various Chord decks, and some stuff like Thragtusk and Endbringer. But this mostly covers it.
Of these cards, the only ones that really matter are:
Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Wurmcoil Engine
Reality Smasher
Primeval Titan
I'm not super worried about those misses because stuff like Dismember still sees play and only hits three of those four "must kill" targets, without all the early game benefits of Push. Bolt misses way more targets, but it's not a great comparison because Bolt can double-up to kill stuff and provides reach.
Overall, I see Push jumping between 2-4 copies depending on the metagame. Lots of big mana = fewer copies. More aggressive decks = more copies. Overall an excellent card that will make a huge Modern impact.
Seriously though, there are obviously tons of decks that will run this. Which ones benefit most from having reliable 1 drop instant speed creature removal?
Tier 1:
BGx will run it, but already had bolt for Jund and path for junk, so its an upgrade but not an earth shattering one. If either deck were to benefit most from it, I would guess Jund. Junk will play it to be sure, but Push handles several critters that Jund can't bolt, like goyfs. Then again, Jund had terminate so who knows.
Affinity won't run it
Infect won't run it
Burn won't run it
Dredge won't run it
Bant Eldrazi won't run it
Tier 2:
Tron won't run it
Merfolk won't run it
Jeskai Nahiri won't run it
Death and Taxes will run it, but already had path
Grixis Delver will run it, but already had bolt. That said, having a better answer for non-boltable targets will help.
Abzan CoCo will run it, but already had path
Zoo/DS Zoo will probably run it
Tier 3 and beyond:
BUG decks will probably all run it. I'm thinking here is where the biggest power increase will be seen. Before any deck that ran BUG or BU really didn't have reliable 1 drop removal, and now they have one of the best removal spells in the game. I don't know how many BUG decks there are, or how many were lurking on the fringes of playability, but it seems like a potent mix. Blue for CA/counters, Green for creatures and whatnot, black for removal now with Abrupt Decay as their main 2 drop removal and Push as their main 1 drop removal. Previously BUG's main removal was just decay.
I think Grixis Delver and BUG decks will probably see the biggest power boost from this. Maybe there are some decks lurking in the shadows that I haven't considered though.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes