I'm pretty sure everyone has seen this card before. I want to ask people who played this card before:
1) How good is this card against dredge in general? I assume you surgical away their BloodGhast to preemptively kill their creatures.
2) How useful is this card in a deck with multiple discard effects. Do you find the card reliable when used to surigical away scapeshift after a discard. (Is this a reliable stragety, or just wishful thinking)
3) I seen this card used against snapcaster Mage. I have a problem with giving your self card disadvantage when playing against a value deck. (I'm I wrong about this?)
(I haven't played with this card, I read alot of forums on how good it is in potential, but I really hate cards that gives you card disadvantage, especially if the card is a sideboard card)
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I haven't tested Surgical Extraction much against Dredge, but I generally don't even like this card in Lantern Control, and Lantern Control plays around 6 discard effects maindeck, is in big trouble against dangerous cards in the opening hand (so Surgical has a nonzero chance of saving my butt, especially against stuff like Scapeshift), likes shuffling opposing decks (so I sometimes Surgical just so they don't topdeck something good), likes being empty-handed (so I sometimes Surgical just to turn Ensnaring Bridge back on again), and plays for the extreme long game (so, chances are, opponents will get to find their answers and execute their cool and awesome plans unless I continuously spend all my resources stopping them). ...And it typically maindecks 2 Surgicals. I typically only maindeck 1 because I still generally find it useless maindeck.
Its only good against dredge if you can take advantage of slowing them down. Hitting amalgam or a dredger will slow them significantly, but not stop them, you also need to apply a fast clock. Static grave hate like leyline and rest in peace is better if you cannot apply pressure
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
If you manage to surgical snap surgical is pretty much lights out, you can take out both amalgam and bloodghast, or you can remove all their dredgers. This is not a great plan for the matchup though
first of all:
Surgical Extraction is very Rarely useless. it's nonbasic land denial, win-con denial, control denial, etc., all rolled into one instant that you don't even need mana for. it wins games in a mill deck, discard deck, or any other grindy sort of(control) deck. you can even set up your own combo with it by taking a bunch of, say, Relentless Rats out of your library to get to the win.
secondly:
i love Surgical Extraction.
i run 6 in my mill deck to help secure me the win. a lot of people on this forum told me i was crazy for doing it, but screw 'em. they don't know what they're talking about.
i feel it's positioned nicely for the meta right now. it has helped me in 95% of the matchups i've played against.
but then again, i'm a rogue deck creator.
so you might not want to listen to an anti-netdecker.
Against Dredge, you can use Surgical Extraction in response to Narcomoeba being milled to remove all of them (and presumably preventing some Prized Amalgam from entering the battlefield this turn). However, such an aggressive line should only be used if you already have pressure on the board and don't want your opponent to get some pesky chumpblockers on the board or can replay a second and a third Surgical (or some stronger piece of hate) to deal with the actual threats of that deck.
Against Snapcaster Mage decks, you should wait for your opponent to cast it and try to give flashback to a spell to play Surgical Extraction targeting that spell; this way your Surgical Extraction acts as a counterspell and there is no card disadvantage.
You can also play Surgical Extraction during your opponent's draw step as if it was a Vendilion Clique to prevent him from drawing a very powerful sorcery-speed spell. If you miss, you won't have a 3/1 flying on the battlefield and will have generated card disadvantage, but at least you'll know what your opponent has in his hand and he won't be able to cast that spell for the rest of the game.
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Who is truer: you who are, or you who are to be?
Currently sleeved: WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
I played two of them yesterday in a SB of green devotion deck... with the help of eternal witness I took out Supreme Verdict and Cryptic Command. I also go to see their hand which was just a bunch of lands.
first of all:
Surgical Extraction is very Rarely useless. it's nonbasic land denial, win-con denial, control denial, etc.
Even more so than just denial, it's a great free (well, 2 life free) information tool at instant speed. Not sure if it's safe to combo off? Take a random card from their graveyard, get a look at their hand, see what they sideboarded in against you in case you go to game three.
I extracted a Wooded Foothills against an Infect player yesterday just to see if he could kill me next turn. It's very valuable info to have in such a cutthroat format.
Ill weigh in here on dredge, being thats my main deck. Extraction is extremely good vs dredge, because the counter play to it is to go really wide in the grave, which makes a lot of problems for the dredge player. We start doing things like putting in troll and loam, rather than 2 trolls because we have to go wide in our yard.
Now that being said, if you do a blind good hit on extraction against a bad dredge player you will win. Good dredge players are the ones that know what the grave hates are, guess what you bring in and preemptively dance around it. Against that kinda dredge player, if you arent a very good extraction player, you will lose. This is because extraction blindly is REALLY bad vs someone who knows what their doing.
BUT if you are a good extraction player, as in you know who the dredge deck funtions at a good level, and you can read his outs correctly and whats the correct extraction when (there is no set order, super game dependent) then you can be back in the driver seat. Its very high risk high reward. Dredge players cant fully dance around it like they can anger or cage, but it will punish you ALOT if you mess up.
I'm pretty sure everyone has seen this card before. I want to ask people who played this card before:
1) How good is this card against dredge in general? I assume you surgical away their BloodGhast to preemptively kill their creatures.
2) How useful is this card in a deck with multiple discard effects. Do you find the card reliable when used to surigical away scapeshift after a discard. (Is this a reliable stragety, or just wishful thinking)
3) I seen this card used against snapcaster Mage. I have a problem with giving your self card disadvantage when playing against a value deck. (I'm I wrong about this?)
(I haven't played with this card, I read alot of forums on how good it is in potential, but I really hate cards that gives you card disadvantage, especially if the card is a sideboard card)
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Surgical Extraction is very Rarely useless. it's nonbasic land denial, win-con denial, control denial, etc., all rolled into one instant that you don't even need mana for. it wins games in a mill deck, discard deck, or any other grindy sort of(control) deck. you can even set up your own combo with it by taking a bunch of, say, Relentless Rats out of your library to get to the win.
secondly:
i love Surgical Extraction.
i run 6 in my mill deck to help secure me the win. a lot of people on this forum told me i was crazy for doing it, but screw 'em. they don't know what they're talking about.
i feel it's positioned nicely for the meta right now. it has helped me in 95% of the matchups i've played against.
but then again, i'm a rogue deck creator.
so you might not want to listen to an anti-netdecker.
Against Snapcaster Mage decks, you should wait for your opponent to cast it and try to give flashback to a spell to play Surgical Extraction targeting that spell; this way your Surgical Extraction acts as a counterspell and there is no card disadvantage.
You can also play Surgical Extraction during your opponent's draw step as if it was a Vendilion Clique to prevent him from drawing a very powerful sorcery-speed spell. If you miss, you won't have a 3/1 flying on the battlefield and will have generated card disadvantage, but at least you'll know what your opponent has in his hand and he won't be able to cast that spell for the rest of the game.
Currently sleeved:
WUR Copycat ft. Stoneforge Mystic
Even more so than just denial, it's a great free (well, 2 life free) information tool at instant speed. Not sure if it's safe to combo off? Take a random card from their graveyard, get a look at their hand, see what they sideboarded in against you in case you go to game three.
I extracted a Wooded Foothills against an Infect player yesterday just to see if he could kill me next turn. It's very valuable info to have in such a cutthroat format.
EXTRACTION FOREVER
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Now that being said, if you do a blind good hit on extraction against a bad dredge player you will win. Good dredge players are the ones that know what the grave hates are, guess what you bring in and preemptively dance around it. Against that kinda dredge player, if you arent a very good extraction player, you will lose. This is because extraction blindly is REALLY bad vs someone who knows what their doing.
BUT if you are a good extraction player, as in you know who the dredge deck funtions at a good level, and you can read his outs correctly and whats the correct extraction when (there is no set order, super game dependent) then you can be back in the driver seat. Its very high risk high reward. Dredge players cant fully dance around it like they can anger or cage, but it will punish you ALOT if you mess up.