It's actually really interesting how some posters on here will try every possible angle to downplay a success that goes against their agenda lol. Nobody wins/top 8s a GP without running hot and getting lucky.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
So what's the new narrative now ? Dredge is fine, metagame is diverse, control players over on here need to get good ?
Reddit and MTGSalvation have a long history of 'Control doesn't work in Modern' and then as soon as someone wins a GP/PT/SCG with Control, people say they got the good side of variance (someone will likely quote this saying "Well they DID get the good side of variance") when in reality if you know your deck well and have a little luck (it is magic after all) you will do just fine with your choice.
I have the options to play Jund, Junk, Merfolk, Grixis variants, or UWR. I played Tron in the past, I played Twin, I played some Abzan Company. I still put up my best results and have the most fun with UWR Control. Does that mean UWR is the best deck? Nope. Just works for me.
Control players just need to git gud. n00bs.
How do you play control against dredge?
They are not afraid of your discard spell, counter spell, and most of the removal.
This is really a painful match-up.
Path their Bloodghasts and go to Game 2 for Rest in Peace
If you have a lot of Dredge in your meta just run 3 RiP and a couple Surgicals. You'll get there sometimes
Then how many SB cards you need to take in order to compete with Dredge?
If you do that, how can you do the SB against other decks such as Affinity and Tron?
The problem for control is, there is no easy way to build your 75 cards and fight against so many types of the decks in Modern.
-----
Burkhart (Grixis):
R7 vs Lantern, 2-0
R8 vs Eldrazi & Taxes, 2-1
R10 vs Abzan, 2-1
R11 vs Lantern, 2-0
R12 vs Titanshift, 2-0
R13 vs Infect, 2-0
R14 vs Knightfall, 2-1
R15 ID with Dredge
Mitas (Jeskai):
R7 vs Grishoalbrand 1-2
R10 vs Lantern: 2-1
R11 vs Merfolk? 2-0
R12 vs RG Tron 1-2
R13 vs Bant Eldrazi 2-1
R14 vs Thing/PA 2-1
-----
Look at this pairing. If they are paired against few more Dredge, do you believe they can get into Top8?
So what's the new narrative now ? Dredge is fine, metagame is diverse, control players over on here need to get good ?
Reddit and MTGSalvation have a long history of 'Control doesn't work in Modern' and then as soon as someone wins a GP/PT/SCG with Control, people say they got the good side of variance (someone will likely quote this saying "Well they DID get the good side of variance") when in reality if you know your deck well and have a little luck (it is magic after all) you will do just fine with your choice.
I have the options to play Jund, Junk, Merfolk, Grixis variants, or UWR. I played Tron in the past, I played Twin, I played some Abzan Company. I still put up my best results and have the most fun with UWR Control. Does that mean UWR is the best deck? Nope. Just works for me.
Control players just need to git gud. n00bs.
How do you play control against dredge?
They are not afraid of your discard spell, counter spell, and most of the removal.
This is really a painful match-up.
Path their Bloodghasts and go to Game 2 for Rest in Peace
If you have a lot of Dredge in your meta just run 3 RiP and a couple Surgicals. You'll get there sometimes
Then how many SB cards you need to take in order to compete with Dredge?
If you do that, how can you do the SB against other decks such as Affinity and Tron?
The problem for control is, there is no easy way to build your 75 cards and fight against so many types of the decks in Modern.
But somehow Control decks still do well with the people that know how to play them.
I run 2x Rest in Peace. I bring it in against Grixis, Jund, Junk, Grishoalbrand, and Dredge and Storm.
2x Stony Silence - Affinity and Lantern and Tron
2x Negates - UWR, Scapeshift, Grixis, Burn, Delver
1x Dispel - Infect, Scapeshift (if it's blue), Burn, Delver, Grixis
1x EE - aggro
2x Anger - Affinity, Dredge, Fish, etc
1x Wear // Tear - Affinity, Blood Moon decks
1x Elspeth - Grixis, Jund, Junk, Bant Eldrazi
1x Lightning Helix - Burn, aggro
1x Spellskite - Infect, Boggles
1x Celestial Purge - Blood Moons, Burn, Jund, Junk, Grixis
This is just an example, but I did not have to over-sideboard for any particular matchup and I have many of my bases covered. As long as you know how to build your mainboard you'll be fine.
Every deck in modern has a weakness, and those decks hope to dodge or have a SB for it. Same with Control. I would much rather be on UWR and have some answers that give me a shot than on Dredge and face turn 0 Leyline or turn 2 Rest in Peace.
Yeah sure why not. Have you seen the deck lists ? Do you think GP top 8 competitors come to play without having a plan for the deck that arguably has the biggest target on its head ? They predicted the field right, built their 75s accordingly and they were rewarded for that with some help from lady luck.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
The Jeskai player that T8ed was playing a pretty unconventional build. No AV, no Nahiri, instead he had Think Twice, Sphinx's Revelation and 3 maindeck Supreme Verdict. You'd better believe those Verdicts saved him against Merfolk and Eldrazi.
To be more exact: Control players need to find a deck, which fits for them and than get good with it ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
And hope to dodge bad matchups. That's really helpful!
And?
Every deck has hopefully rough match-ups cause otherwise we have a classic example of a Tier 0 deck (no bad match-ups, just good ones). Heck, even Twin and Rhino Pod (both were probably the best decks we ever had in Modern regarding win %) had rough match-ups.
So what's the new narrative now ? Dredge is fine, metagame is diverse, control players over on here need to get good ?
Reddit and MTGSalvation have a long history of 'Control doesn't work in Modern' and then as soon as someone wins a GP/PT/SCG with Control, people say they got the good side of variance (someone will likely quote this saying "Well they DID get the good side of variance") when in reality if you know your deck well and have a little luck (it is magic after all) you will do just fine with your choice.
I have the options to play Jund, Junk, Merfolk, Grixis variants, or UWR. I played Tron in the past, I played Twin, I played some Abzan Company. I still put up my best results and have the most fun with UWR Control. Does that mean UWR is the best deck? Nope. Just works for me.
Control players just need to git gud. n00bs.
How do you play control against dredge?
They are not afraid of your discard spell, counter spell, and most of the removal.
This is really a painful match-up.
How to play against them with a control deck? By playing Angers or in general exiling removal. If you do not have it, you need to have good spot removal (Path) + a good clock. If you have neither, than you will hardly win.
And yes, I know those struggles, since I'm playing UW Control (with Resto and Walls), where I really would want some number of Angers
The Jeskai player that T8ed was playing a pretty unconventional build. No AV, no Nahiri, instead he had Think Twice, Sphinx's Revelation and 3 maindeck Supreme Verdict. You'd better believe those Verdicts saved him against Merfolk and Eldrazi.
Those Sweepers are awesome vs most current Modern decks. I'm still surprised, that not more decks are picking them up (especially those, who do not really care about the drawback).
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Yeah sure why not. Have you seen the deck lists ? Do you think GP top 8 competitors come to play without having a plan for the deck that arguably has the biggest target on its head ? They predicted the field right, built their 75s accordingly and they were rewarded for that with some help from lady luck.
Actually yes, from what I've heard the GP Dallas champion built his deck on Friday which would explain his mismatched Snow-covered Mountains. You can get really lucky with pairings and win a GP no matter what the format. It just so happens Modern feels more in your face, the most than any other format currently.
To be more exact: Control players need to find a deck, which fits for them and than get good with it ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
And hope to dodge bad matchups. That's really helpful!
That's kind of every decks game plan tho isn't it? Jund hopes to dodge Tron and TitanShift, Tron hopes to dodge Burn and Infect, Infect hopes to dodge decks with removal, Dredge hopes to dodge Rest in Peace.
I dunno, I feel like that is the nature of the game.
I feel that feature is only exclusive to Modern, only because WOTC kills off decks that are just generically good (Pod, Twin, Eldrazi, Amulet Bloom) vs the entire field. I don't have the must dodge this deck feeling in Standard because of a small cardpool and the best deck just becomes obvious weeks after the Pro Tour. I don't have that feeling in Legacy either when you actually have the entire card pool available to deal with anything.
Mackie's deck tech is quite hilarious when you realize what he played against in the semis and finals.
“If you're expecting a lot of non-creature decks or Remand, DO NOT PLAY THIS DECK. Not close.” Adding, “If you don't like losing to Blue decks, don't play this deck. Please.”
Semifinals: vs Jeskai with no Remands
Finals: vs Grixis with no Remands
Fun fact: Corey Burkhart has been knocked out of TWO GP T8s by 8th Edition cards. Got Choked by Craig Wescoe at GP Pittsburgh and Blood Mooned at this GP.
8th is cancer
j/k, Grixis just blows against enchantments
Honestly he isn't talking about blue based control. He's talking blue based combo like Ascension. BTL Scapeshift. Skred cannot beat it. That deck destroys us even with Relic.
To be more exact: Control players need to find a deck, which fits for them and than get good with it ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
And hope to dodge bad matchups. That's really helpful!
That's kind of every decks game plan tho isn't it? Jund hopes to dodge Tron and TitanShift, Tron hopes to dodge Burn and Infect, Infect hopes to dodge decks with removal, Dredge hopes to dodge Rest in Peace.
I dunno, I feel like that is the nature of the game.
I feel that feature is only exclusive to Modern, only because WOTC kills off decks that are just generically good (Pod, Twin, Eldrazi, Amulet Bloom) vs the entire field. I don't have the must dodge this deck feeling in Standard because of a small cardpool and the best deck just becomes obvious weeks after the Pro Tour. I don't have that feeling in Legacy either when you actually have the entire card pool available to deal with anything.
Fair enough. I also don't have the 'must dodge' feeling in Legacy unless I am in the same room as a Lands player (I play Shardless).
Yeah sure why not. Have you seen the deck lists ? Do you think GP top 8 competitors come to play without having a plan for the deck that arguably has the biggest target on its head ? They predicted the field right, built their 75s accordingly and they were rewarded for that with some help from lady luck.
Actually yes, from what I've heard the GP Dallas champion built his deck on Friday which would explain his mismatched Snow-covered Mountains. You can get really lucky with pairings and win a GP no matter what the format. It just so happens Modern feels more in your face, the most than any other format currently.
This is not true. He tested and played several different versions of the deck (be it the Demigod or Reckoner version) and landed at that version in the end.
Yes, he only played it for a few weeks, it still makes your statement incorrect.
Yeah sure why not. Have you seen the deck lists ? Do you think GP top 8 competitors come to play without having a plan for the deck that arguably has the biggest target on its head ? They predicted the field right, built their 75s accordingly and they were rewarded for that with some help from lady luck.
Actually yes, from what I've heard the GP Dallas champion built his deck on Friday which would explain his mismatched Snow-covered Mountains. You can get really lucky with pairings and win a GP no matter what the format. It just so happens Modern feels more in your face, the most than any other format currently.
This is not true. He tested and played several different versions of the deck (be it the Demigod or Reckoner version) and landed at that version in the end.
Yes, he only played it for a few weeks, it still makes your statement incorrect.
So you're basically reinforcing the point that experience with a deck is no longer a large contributing factor with doing well in Modern because luck > dedication. Because if it was the other way around, Corey would have won this GP if dedication > luck.
I really cant beleive all the haters here. I even did a write up for dredge trying to find out why dredge did so piss poor. Dredge only had 2 decks in the top 64, thats kinda telling. I looked at litterally every top 64, added all the "real dredge hate cards" and found that people were running 3.6 cards between the main and side against dredge.
Let me say this again...
Dredge mostly lost in day 2 because people packed an average of 3 cards against them in the side.
This is laughable that people cant even look at the data and see that. and main deck ways to interact that DO effect dredge? Anger of the gods. Seriously... Kinda like the deck that won first place. Oh and anger also generally kills infect, suicide zoo, and affinity. All the decks people are complaining for bans over.
This is how a meta works. A trend happens, someone exploits it, that tech becomes real (in this case, moon decks and anger decks which constantly did well all weekend) and the meta shifts. Thats exactly whats suppose to happen and is...
This is not true. He tested and played several different versions of the deck (be it the Demigod or Reckoner version) and landed at that version in the end.
Yes, he only played it for a few weeks, it still makes your statement incorrect.
So you're basically reinforcing the point that experience with a deck is no longer a large contributing factor with doing well in Modern because luck > dedication. Because if it was the other way around, Corey would have won this GP if dedication > luck.
Basically, we do not know how many games he played with the deck. I mean, if he played more than 300 games with Skred, would you say, he has no experience with the deck? Sure, he wouldn't have the same level of experience like somebody, who is playing the same deck for over 1 year, but he still has experience and more important understanding and knowledge about the role of the deck.
Furthermore, there is always the "luck" factor in game, which has the factor "randomness" in it. You can have lands for the whole tournament which just suck big time and than you have a tournament, where you have one god hand after the other.
Thus, comments like this I always find rubbish at best.
I really cant beleive all the haters here. I even did a write up for dredge trying to find out why dredge did so piss poor. Dredge only had 2 decks in the top 64, thats kinda telling. I looked at litterally every top 64, added all the "real dredge hate cards" and found that people were running 3.6 cards between the main and side against dredge.
Let me say this again...
Dredge mostly lost in day 2 because people packed an average of 3 cards against them in the side.
This is laughable that people cant even look at the data and see that. and main deck ways to interact that DO effect dredge? Anger of the gods. Seriously... Kinda like the deck that won first place. Oh and anger also generally kills infect, suicide zoo, and affinity. All the decks people are complaining for bans over.
This is how a meta works. A trend happens, someone exploits it, that tech becomes real (in this case, moon decks and anger decks which constantly did well all weekend) and the meta shifts. Thats exactly whats suppose to happen and is...
THANK GOD for this post.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I would point out that an average of 3.6 cards would correlate more to people running 4 cards than 3 cards in their SB for Dredge, but the point is still valid. I hated Dredge when it was up and coming due to having issues with an over clogged SB but, currently, there is no reason not to be running at least 3 solid answers for Dredge with a few more flexible answers that cover Dredge and other MUs too.
I just want to point out, that he said, that the 3.6 cards per deck is for the whole 75 cards, not only the SB.
I doubt, that he included Path in there (since it is not a dedicated answer) but several decks are running Anger in the MD (some even Relics like Tron and Skred) it probably results into 3 "dedicated" SB cards for Dredge. Note: Some "dedicated" SB cards vs Dredge are also great cards in other match-ups (like Anger vs Aggro decks).
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I would point out that an average of 3.6 cards would correlate more to people running 4 cards than 3 cards in their SB for Dredge, but the point is still valid. I hated Dredge when it was up and coming due to having issues with an over clogged SB but, currently, there is no reason not to be running at least 3 solid answers for Dredge with a few more flexible answers that cover Dredge and other MUs too.
I just want to point out, that he said, that the 3.6 cards per deck is for the whole 75 cards, not only the SB.
I doubt, that he included Path in there (since it is not a dedicated answer) but several decks are running Anger in the MD (some even Relics like Tron and Skred) it probably results into 3 "dedicated" SB cards for Dredge. Note: Some "dedicated" SB cards vs Dredge are also great cards in other match-ups (like Anger vs Aggro decks).
Greetings,
Kathal
Yall can go to the dredge thread and see what I included, the raw data and the % of each. My goal being to know what I should have in my board to counter hate, which is a constant flux for the dredge player. For what its worth, I didnt count anything that didnt exactly deal with the yard. So no, path wasnt included. Anger of the gods was, being that it actually mentions the grave yard kinda deal.
If you wanted to include stuff that kinda also deals with dredge as well as other things, the numbers actually get alot worse for dredge, because you could include path, ruined halo, worship, but thats a pretty big rabbit hole without clearly defined boarders I didnt want to get into.
The data dealing with the word grave yard was clear. these 4 cards kept dredge from really being overly powerful: Anger of the Gods, Cage, Ooze and Extraction. All of those cards are pretty easy to have. Cage as a 2-3 of in boards, which also conveniently messes with titanshift like decks and collected company decks, Extraction which is a super easy include in the side for any deck running snapcaster and surprisingly effective. Ooze, a main deckable card for any green midranger deck, and anger, a deck castable in blue red X control shells, delver shells, Jund shells, Ramp shells, moon shells.
The meta is finding its legs fine, and the dredge decks can be answered game 1 by decks that are faster (Infect, burn, to a lesser extent, affinity and zoo), decks that go over it titanshift, scapeshift, ad nuseam, and decks that can slow it to deal with it, jund(grant it, it needs to have the correct cards), moon decks, anger decks. Youd be right to say it is like affinity, but much better game one. Youd be wrong to say its still better than affinity game 2 and 3, because is there ways to kill affinity as hard as dredge game 2/3? Yes, but its color dependent, and RiP is way more useful for other matchups than its affinity counter, Stony Silence. Plus theres other colorless options like cage, relic, leyline and radvious trap, and every color sans blue has a good graveyard answers (cept blue, but Id agrue that blue uses snaps, and snap extraction is stupid strong)
If theres any take away from this meta ACTUALLY USING THE DAYS instead of blind gut feelings is that infect is overpopulated. But if more people take on those bolt or moon or anger decks that too will probably dilute.
Also the skred player said he's been playing the deck for weeks. We don't know how many games he's played of them or if it's intense or casual play testing(like 5 to 10 games a week.) I think the made it Friday was him settling on the final build. He mentioned wanting the recokner act combo in the deck but had to take it out for instance. Now you can say that means this version was not tested, but let's assume he has played it extensively for weeks... Just different builds... He still knows the basic play lines. He still knows what to play and when to play it. He still knows what hate to bring in and how much. He still knows about Kothing the crap out of planeswalkers. Knows when to be aggro and when to be control. Only the final exact build was up in the air....
Make sense?
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Then how many SB cards you need to take in order to compete with Dredge?
If you do that, how can you do the SB against other decks such as Affinity and Tron?
The problem for control is, there is no easy way to build your 75 cards and fight against so many types of the decks in Modern.
-----
Burkhart (Grixis):
R7 vs Lantern, 2-0
R8 vs Eldrazi & Taxes, 2-1
R10 vs Abzan, 2-1
R11 vs Lantern, 2-0
R12 vs Titanshift, 2-0
R13 vs Infect, 2-0
R14 vs Knightfall, 2-1
R15 ID with Dredge
Mitas (Jeskai):
R7 vs Grishoalbrand 1-2
R10 vs Lantern: 2-1
R11 vs Merfolk? 2-0
R12 vs RG Tron 1-2
R13 vs Bant Eldrazi 2-1
R14 vs Thing/PA 2-1
-----
Look at this pairing. If they are paired against few more Dredge, do you believe they can get into Top8?
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
But somehow Control decks still do well with the people that know how to play them.
I run 2x Rest in Peace. I bring it in against Grixis, Jund, Junk, Grishoalbrand, and Dredge and Storm.
2x Stony Silence - Affinity and Lantern and Tron
2x Negates - UWR, Scapeshift, Grixis, Burn, Delver
1x Dispel - Infect, Scapeshift (if it's blue), Burn, Delver, Grixis
1x EE - aggro
2x Anger - Affinity, Dredge, Fish, etc
1x Wear // Tear - Affinity, Blood Moon decks
1x Elspeth - Grixis, Jund, Junk, Bant Eldrazi
1x Lightning Helix - Burn, aggro
1x Spellskite - Infect, Boggles
1x Celestial Purge - Blood Moons, Burn, Jund, Junk, Grixis
This is just an example, but I did not have to over-sideboard for any particular matchup and I have many of my bases covered. As long as you know how to build your mainboard you'll be fine.
Every deck in modern has a weakness, and those decks hope to dodge or have a SB for it. Same with Control. I would much rather be on UWR and have some answers that give me a shot than on Dredge and face turn 0 Leyline or turn 2 Rest in Peace.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
And?
Every deck has hopefully rough match-ups cause otherwise we have a classic example of a Tier 0 deck (no bad match-ups, just good ones). Heck, even Twin and Rhino Pod (both were probably the best decks we ever had in Modern regarding win %) had rough match-ups.
How to play against them with a control deck? By playing Angers or in general exiling removal. If you do not have it, you need to have good spot removal (Path) + a good clock. If you have neither, than you will hardly win.
And yes, I know those struggles, since I'm playing UW Control (with Resto and Walls), where I really would want some number of Angers
Those Sweepers are awesome vs most current Modern decks. I'm still surprised, that not more decks are picking them up (especially those, who do not really care about the drawback).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Actually yes, from what I've heard the GP Dallas champion built his deck on Friday which would explain his mismatched Snow-covered Mountains. You can get really lucky with pairings and win a GP no matter what the format. It just so happens Modern feels more in your face, the most than any other format currently.
I feel that feature is only exclusive to Modern, only because WOTC kills off decks that are just generically good (Pod, Twin, Eldrazi, Amulet Bloom) vs the entire field. I don't have the must dodge this deck feeling in Standard because of a small cardpool and the best deck just becomes obvious weeks after the Pro Tour. I don't have that feeling in Legacy either when you actually have the entire card pool available to deal with anything.
Honestly he isn't talking about blue based control. He's talking blue based combo like Ascension. BTL Scapeshift. Skred cannot beat it. That deck destroys us even with Relic.
Fair enough. I also don't have the 'must dodge' feeling in Legacy unless I am in the same room as a Lands player (I play Shardless).
This is not true. He tested and played several different versions of the deck (be it the Demigod or Reckoner version) and landed at that version in the end.
Yes, he only played it for a few weeks, it still makes your statement incorrect.
For more infos, see here: Skred Red with Kevin Mackie
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
So you're basically reinforcing the point that experience with a deck is no longer a large contributing factor with doing well in Modern because luck > dedication. Because if it was the other way around, Corey would have won this GP if dedication > luck.
Let me say this again...
Dredge mostly lost in day 2 because people packed an average of 3 cards against them in the side.
This is laughable that people cant even look at the data and see that. and main deck ways to interact that DO effect dredge? Anger of the gods. Seriously... Kinda like the deck that won first place. Oh and anger also generally kills infect, suicide zoo, and affinity. All the decks people are complaining for bans over.
This is how a meta works. A trend happens, someone exploits it, that tech becomes real (in this case, moon decks and anger decks which constantly did well all weekend) and the meta shifts. Thats exactly whats suppose to happen and is...
Basically, we do not know how many games he played with the deck. I mean, if he played more than 300 games with Skred, would you say, he has no experience with the deck? Sure, he wouldn't have the same level of experience like somebody, who is playing the same deck for over 1 year, but he still has experience and more important understanding and knowledge about the role of the deck.
Furthermore, there is always the "luck" factor in game, which has the factor "randomness" in it. You can have lands for the whole tournament which just suck big time and than you have a tournament, where you have one god hand after the other.
Thus, comments like this I always find rubbish at best.
THANK GOD for this post.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I just want to point out, that he said, that the 3.6 cards per deck is for the whole 75 cards, not only the SB.
I doubt, that he included Path in there (since it is not a dedicated answer) but several decks are running Anger in the MD (some even Relics like Tron and Skred) it probably results into 3 "dedicated" SB cards for Dredge. Note: Some "dedicated" SB cards vs Dredge are also great cards in other match-ups (like Anger vs Aggro decks).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Yall can go to the dredge thread and see what I included, the raw data and the % of each. My goal being to know what I should have in my board to counter hate, which is a constant flux for the dredge player. For what its worth, I didnt count anything that didnt exactly deal with the yard. So no, path wasnt included. Anger of the gods was, being that it actually mentions the grave yard kinda deal.
If you wanted to include stuff that kinda also deals with dredge as well as other things, the numbers actually get alot worse for dredge, because you could include path, ruined halo, worship, but thats a pretty big rabbit hole without clearly defined boarders I didnt want to get into.
The data dealing with the word grave yard was clear. these 4 cards kept dredge from really being overly powerful: Anger of the Gods, Cage, Ooze and Extraction. All of those cards are pretty easy to have. Cage as a 2-3 of in boards, which also conveniently messes with titanshift like decks and collected company decks, Extraction which is a super easy include in the side for any deck running snapcaster and surprisingly effective. Ooze, a main deckable card for any green midranger deck, and anger, a deck castable in blue red X control shells, delver shells, Jund shells, Ramp shells, moon shells.
The meta is finding its legs fine, and the dredge decks can be answered game 1 by decks that are faster (Infect, burn, to a lesser extent, affinity and zoo), decks that go over it titanshift, scapeshift, ad nuseam, and decks that can slow it to deal with it, jund(grant it, it needs to have the correct cards), moon decks, anger decks. Youd be right to say it is like affinity, but much better game one. Youd be wrong to say its still better than affinity game 2 and 3, because is there ways to kill affinity as hard as dredge game 2/3? Yes, but its color dependent, and RiP is way more useful for other matchups than its affinity counter, Stony Silence. Plus theres other colorless options like cage, relic, leyline and radvious trap, and every color sans blue has a good graveyard answers (cept blue, but Id agrue that blue uses snaps, and snap extraction is stupid strong)
If theres any take away from this meta ACTUALLY USING THE DAYS instead of blind gut feelings is that infect is overpopulated. But if more people take on those bolt or moon or anger decks that too will probably dilute.
Make sense?