theres been a recent spike in spirit decks showing up to tournaments. but what bothers me is they do many of the things that Faeries decks are doing.
Faeries decks have been around a lot longer and have barely made a dent in modern as far as success is concerned, yet spirits seems to be making much more headway interms of success despite being the newer creature type deck.
What are the key differences that are making these two similar strategies experience drastically different outcomes?
One of the issues with Faeries in modern is they don't have a decent 1 drop and their curve is kind of slow for their power and impact. Plus if you look at Caleb's deck from the SCG and some of this leagues the high creature density allows you to play Collect Company which is a hell of a card.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I've always found that Modern UB Faeries had problems with aggro. The problems were bad enough that I found that Snapcaster Mage was better maindeck than Ancestral Vision because Tiago guaranteed another removal spell while AV couldn't.
UB Faeries also had a tendency to auto-lose to Voice of Resurgence decks the moment that Voice lands. UB Faeries must counter it--it screws their counterspells and is inefficient to kill otherwise. ...Then Faeries needs to counter Collected Company because it can get Voice.
I suspect that Spirits has fewer problems with aggro: it has a faster clock than Faeries (the Fae can only swing for 2 on Turn 2 if it goes Turn 1 Mutavault and foregoes disrupting or playing Bitterblossom on Turn 2, while Spirits have loads of ways to deal 2 damage with a Turn 1 Mausoleum Wanderer on Turn 2), its Path to Exiles can boot big creatures and Voice more easily, and its way of spitting out more than one creature with one card doesn't incur life loss.
Wizards dropped support for Faeries after Lorwyn. It's got a block's creature base. Spirits are a recurring tribe now so they get better and better each year.
theres been a recent spike in spirit decks showing up to tournaments. but what bothers me is they do many of the things that Faeries decks are doing.
Faeries decks have been around a lot longer and have barely made a dent in modern as far as success is concerned, yet spirits seems to be making much more headway interms of success despite being the newer creature type deck.
What are the key differences that are making these two similar strategies experience drastically different outcomes?
Faeries is actually doing well online right now with Smuggler's copter as it 5-0ed a few times so there is that. Spirits have collected company and they have more spirits they can be playing. Fae only has: sprite/blossom/vclique/mclique. Of those creatures mistbind clique is useless if you don't have any fae out. Aka wizards needs to print more faeries for it to see sustained success. It also doesn't help that fae is one of the hardest decks in modern to pilot well.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Agreed with what was said above. One thing is that faeries plays more like a control deck which tends to not perform particularly well against aggro decks. Control elements such as counters, removal, and heavy discard are played in fae which makes them more grindy then the tempo-style strategies spirits utilizes. In addition, faeries has bitterblossom along with supportive flash creatures that disrupt the opponent while spirits relies on CoCo and rattlechains to give other creatures flash. Spirits has a plethora of 1 and 2 drops along with a fairly decent lord while faeries relies on a few quality higher curve creatures.
Ive played spirits a couple times and watched it fall flat too. Decks are slow to gain hype in modern, and when they do their slow to fall out of flavor. Allies did much of the same. I dont think its all that great...
The upside IS spirits is an easy type to show up in sets... fae isnt
It is because wizards is afraid of us faeries players convincing too many people to pick up the deck...but they shouldnt be too scared to give us new tools. Faeries is harder to play because there is often the necessity of near perfect lines of play. Faeries is very unforgiving to its pilots and it needs cards that make that less so, but it is still a deck that rewards experience and preparation.
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
I would tend to agree with what was said here, but also right now it is better to be able to NOT interact much. This is what Spirits seems to be good at. It has a tiny bit of disruption with Wanderer and Queller, but mostly it is just a quick clock that is unblockable. Faeries would be better in a meta where interaction is more key. Also, as mentioned, White has good SB options.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I dunno. Id keep an eye on it. Spirits are really easily printed and show up in every color. The fact they got some goof tribal support means good things
And i dunno. Fae are pretty much 1-2 good one drops from being totally viable.
call it crazy, but i've ponder the possibilities of running simian spirit guide for enabling spellstutter sprite to catch those turn 1 and turn 3 plays that might be ahead of the curve. the other thing is, I've seen oona's gatewarden do a lot of damage on her own, despite being a defender, adds to the 1cc curve faeries sometimes comes up short on.
with gatewarden I think it can give faeries an edge against other aggro.
call it crazy, but i've ponder the possibilities of running simian spirit guide for enabling spellstutter sprite to catch those turn 1 and turn 3 plays that might be ahead of the curve. the other thing is, I've seen oona's gatewarden do a lot of damage on her own, despite being a defender, adds to the 1cc curve faeries sometimes comes up short on.
with gatewarden I think it can give faeries an edge against other aggro.
Control variants such as faeries should stay away from SSG. It's pure card disadvantage and is a generally bad topdeck, which is something that pretty much only certain combo decks can get away with.
Gatewarden is an interesting choice, since it perma-kills Kitchen Finks along with pumped infect creatures and anything else with temporary P/T boosts. Unfortunately, it's extremely frail and requires a faerie deck to spend mana on its own turn, the same two reasons preventing former standard darling Sower of Temptation from being included.
call it crazy, but i've ponder the possibilities of running simian spirit guide for enabling spellstutter sprite to catch those turn 1 and turn 3 plays that might be ahead of the curve. the other thing is, I've seen oona's gatewarden do a lot of damage on her own, despite being a defender, adds to the 1cc curve faeries sometimes comes up short on.
with gatewarden I think it can give faeries an edge against other aggro.
Sprite costing two mana isn't the reason why fae isn't a meta deck. The reason why is because fae needs one more faerie that is either a tribal beatstick with flash like mistbind clique, a better flash tribal lord than Scion of Oona or a utility faerie that has some power behind it like Vendilion clique does.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Scion is fine. it just doesnt do exactly what modern fae want which is hard control. If fae was more tempo, then sprite and clique would be much better, and flashing in the lord for combat or to save a creature would be huge...
but again we are looking at their best cards at 2 mana, 2 mana, 3 mana, 3 mana, 4 mana. Spirits best cards are 1 mana, 2 mana, 2 mana, 3 mana, 3 mana, 3 mana. Thats more cards and a better curve. But look, we visit a plane where fae are a thing, fae is like 1-2 busted low cards away from being totally playable.
Would a mono-blue tempo build be better than the traditional U/B Midrange/Control build right now ?
Because of the lack of good 1-drops (with only Faerie Miscreant as an almost serviceable one) the deck can play with Aether Vial to compensate for the slower speed and the need to keep up mana for counters.
Team Discord Faeries has been testing many different variations of the faeries engine and lately smuggler's copter applies more of the pressure that the deck needs, but the proper number feels like 3 in testing, not 4. The trend of cutting mana leak is also looking to be somewhat improper from our testing. It may have been proper for the MTGO meta but in wider metagames you'll often want the answer to noncreature threats outsie the range of spellstutter sprite
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
The thing about tribal decks is that they're supposed to essentially be creature decks, and that means you're more aggro than control.
but there aren't enough good fae, so they end up like a worse control deck, then playing threats that are fae for the sake of being fae.
Speed: Unlike successful tribal decks like Merfolk and Elves, fae rely on your islands to hit the board. This alone creates a tension on the player to decide what to do with their mana. Elves ramp rapidly using dorks and druids, while merfolk and spirits cheat with vials and cocos. The fae, with their low count of playable creatures and spread curve (2, 3 and 4) exclude them from being vial or coco decks, which are lynchpins for many successful creature strategies.
Color: Fae are UB. These are not the best colors to be playing control with, but its what the fae get and splashing colors only results in more painful manabases and not being able to work with mutavaults, something the fae sorely need due to an already small inventory of fae to work with.
Curve: Every tribe aforementioned has a one drop that can lead to either explosive plays or disrupt the opponent. When merfolk starts with vial, you know they're going to be keeping their mana up for disruption while their abundant 2 cmc merfolk start flooding the board for free. They also have Cursecatcher, something that can disrupt the early set up spells like Serum Visions, or simply start the beatdown with Lord buffs. Elves can lead from a heritage druid or mana dork into an army on turn 2 rivaling affinity's explosive starts. Spirits enjoy the same vial capability with abundant options around the 2 and 3 mark; and they have the Mausoeum Wanderer to match merfolk's Cursecatcher. The fae has none of these; no abundance of a certain cmc to enjoy vials with; no synergy with coco, and no 1 drops worth playing. So the fae play control-style 1 drops like IOK and TS; and the question is begged: why don't you just play a straight out midrange deck instead of being fae for the sake of it?
Synergy: The fae beg for synergy but can't find it most times. Spellstutter can be cast turn 2 onwards, but there are no one drops; so you're countering a 1 cmc spell on turn 2, or hoping to. Modern decks are at this time preparing to cast Bob, Goyf, Thing in the Ice, Pyromancer Ascension, Temur Battle Rage; well, they are basically playing on curve, or holding up mana to disrupt (perhaps while waiting for delver to flip). The 3-drop fae is a standalone, while the 4-drop requires a fae already on the board to work; no mean feat unless one has already cast bitterblossom 2 turns before (not to mention the blowout that can happen when the singular fae is Bolted with Mclique is on the stack). Successful tribes do not beg the synergy; synergy offers them benefits and not conditions. Merfolk lords strengthen their army but do not collapse due to the ridiculous redundancy they have. Elves likewise have multiple mana producers and are almost always ready to explode with coco, chord or ezuri. Spirits are standalone creatures with decent power that each act like a spell at the same time, and then their lord may just come along and accelerate the clock.
The fae need more 1 and 2 drops. They need powerhouses that don't have preset conditions to be usable or even castable. Until they have the numbers to work reasonably with Coco or vial, they will be second to even goblins (who, when all else fails, will simply bite a stick of dynamite and hurl themselves at the opponent).
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Faeries is a slower deck, so yeah it loses to fast aggro decks very quickly.
The Bant Spirit deck plays Hierarch for speed and quality creatures, you also have things like Spell Queller, Collected Company for better value, that's why it just outclass the U/B faeries deck atm.
I understand that to many of you this is highly debateable, and the only proof I can offer you at the moment is a suggestion to try the deck yourself; but I think Faeries is heavily customizable for the metagame you expect to face, and that is a huge upside for me, as a player who tweaks variants of both spirits and faeries.
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Speaking as a long time faeries player, it is a very skill rewarding deck. You really need to know how it plays and it rewards you for your efforts.Bitterblossom is a harsh mistress. It has also been through countless evolutions centered on about 5 cards (10 tops) that are its base from Lorwyn block. It's been around for a while (9 years!) and it has been on the shadowy edge of modern since its inception. A strong faeries player is able to hold his/her own in the format and we posses good and bad match-ups just like the tier 1 & 2 decks do. Best part is we seldom have mirror matches since we tend to be an underplayed archetype.
The fact that it so dominated standard around the time of Lorwyn seems to have left some lingering dislike amongst non-faerie players against the tribe. I feel this is totally unjustified as there are other tribal decks that are more difficult to play against, have larger card pools and were even more dominant in their times (anyone remember when playing Onslaught block meant playing against endless goblin decks?). For that reason, that some did get a negative impression, I think the deck has some lingering unpopularity. I have also run into people who seem to regard my faerie deck as me hanging onto some long forgotten standard environment, though that has changed in the last few years as Lorwyn block spins more into myth than memory. Wizards has not been kind to the archetype either, as it has not had a significant infusion of tribal friendly cards that aid its core card selection. It fact Wizards seems almost afraid to print a descent faerie threat while simultaneously continuing to print strong new cards for other tribes. Spirits is a pet tribal deck that has always lingered on the edge of good, as one of the best modern cards (Lingering Souls) is in its tribe. It's been chomping at the bit to run and the recent sets has allowed it to finally run as a creature based tribal deck. It represents the new hotness in tribal and is interesting in its novelty. Over time it will die down unless it is significantly better than other well established tribal groups.
Faeries is control. Always has been, though some of us do run tempo based versions at times. So it is a very different line of play than spirits, even though Spell Queller does a passable yet weaker imitation of a Spellstutter Sprite for an extra mana. Spirits seems a lot more creature based in play.
Besides, saying faeries fail isn't very accurate. Saying that it is a rare deck that is not in favor and very difficult to play well, so it often does not make top showings, is a fairer assessment in my opinion. Those of us who have stood by it admit it has its weaknesses, particularly to aggro strategies, but we are ever improving it and I wouldn't call it a failed archetype just yet. It's seen some recent success in online tournaments for example.
theres been a recent spike in spirit decks showing up to tournaments. but what bothers me is they do many of the things that Faeries decks are doing.
Faeries decks have been around a lot longer and have barely made a dent in modern as far as success is concerned, yet spirits seems to be making much more headway interms of success despite being the newer creature type deck.
What are the key differences that are making these two similar strategies experience drastically different outcomes?
Instead we have spirits.
One of the issues with Faeries in modern is they don't have a decent 1 drop and their curve is kind of slow for their power and impact. Plus if you look at Caleb's deck from the SCG and some of this leagues the high creature density allows you to play Collect Company which is a hell of a card.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
UB Faeries also had a tendency to auto-lose to Voice of Resurgence decks the moment that Voice lands. UB Faeries must counter it--it screws their counterspells and is inefficient to kill otherwise. ...Then Faeries needs to counter Collected Company because it can get Voice.
I suspect that Spirits has fewer problems with aggro: it has a faster clock than Faeries (the Fae can only swing for 2 on Turn 2 if it goes Turn 1 Mutavault and foregoes disrupting or playing Bitterblossom on Turn 2, while Spirits have loads of ways to deal 2 damage with a Turn 1 Mausoleum Wanderer on Turn 2), its Path to Exiles can boot big creatures and Voice more easily, and its way of spitting out more than one creature with one card doesn't incur life loss.
Faeries is actually doing well online right now with Smuggler's copter as it 5-0ed a few times so there is that. Spirits have collected company and they have more spirits they can be playing. Fae only has: sprite/blossom/vclique/mclique. Of those creatures mistbind clique is useless if you don't have any fae out. Aka wizards needs to print more faeries for it to see sustained success. It also doesn't help that fae is one of the hardest decks in modern to pilot well.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
UB Faeries
U Taking Turns
BGW Abzan Midrange
EDH Decks
MonoU Sakashima the Impostor and the Clone Army
UG Rashmi, Eternities Crafter
Dralnu, Lich LordUBR Kess, Dissident MageThe upside IS spirits is an easy type to show up in sets... fae isnt
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)1 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sion of Oona
1 Bitterblossom
1 Spell Queller
1 Mausoleum Wanderer
1 Rattlechains
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Moorland Haunt
Including these fringe cards:
1 Tallowisp
1 Collected Company
1 Lingering Souls
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
The Tallowisp is if you wanne runn the arcane x spells + curiosety and other tutors. Also spellqueller stops cavern of souls.
Also spirits do not die to a singel lingering souls.
And i dunno. Fae are pretty much 1-2 good one drops from being totally viable.
with gatewarden I think it can give faeries an edge against other aggro.
Control variants such as faeries should stay away from SSG. It's pure card disadvantage and is a generally bad topdeck, which is something that pretty much only certain combo decks can get away with.
Gatewarden is an interesting choice, since it perma-kills Kitchen Finks along with pumped infect creatures and anything else with temporary P/T boosts. Unfortunately, it's extremely frail and requires a faerie deck to spend mana on its own turn, the same two reasons preventing former standard darling Sower of Temptation from being included.
Sprite costing two mana isn't the reason why fae isn't a meta deck. The reason why is because fae needs one more faerie that is either a tribal beatstick with flash like mistbind clique, a better flash tribal lord than Scion of Oona or a utility faerie that has some power behind it like Vendilion clique does.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
but again we are looking at their best cards at 2 mana, 2 mana, 3 mana, 3 mana, 4 mana. Spirits best cards are 1 mana, 2 mana, 2 mana, 3 mana, 3 mana, 3 mana. Thats more cards and a better curve. But look, we visit a plane where fae are a thing, fae is like 1-2 busted low cards away from being totally playable.
Because of the lack of good 1-drops (with only Faerie Miscreant as an almost serviceable one) the deck can play with Aether Vial to compensate for the slower speed and the need to keep up mana for counters.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
but there aren't enough good fae, so they end up like a worse control deck, then playing threats that are fae for the sake of being fae.
Speed: Unlike successful tribal decks like Merfolk and Elves, fae rely on your islands to hit the board. This alone creates a tension on the player to decide what to do with their mana. Elves ramp rapidly using dorks and druids, while merfolk and spirits cheat with vials and cocos. The fae, with their low count of playable creatures and spread curve (2, 3 and 4) exclude them from being vial or coco decks, which are lynchpins for many successful creature strategies.
Color: Fae are UB. These are not the best colors to be playing control with, but its what the fae get and splashing colors only results in more painful manabases and not being able to work with mutavaults, something the fae sorely need due to an already small inventory of fae to work with.
Curve: Every tribe aforementioned has a one drop that can lead to either explosive plays or disrupt the opponent. When merfolk starts with vial, you know they're going to be keeping their mana up for disruption while their abundant 2 cmc merfolk start flooding the board for free. They also have Cursecatcher, something that can disrupt the early set up spells like Serum Visions, or simply start the beatdown with Lord buffs. Elves can lead from a heritage druid or mana dork into an army on turn 2 rivaling affinity's explosive starts. Spirits enjoy the same vial capability with abundant options around the 2 and 3 mark; and they have the Mausoeum Wanderer to match merfolk's Cursecatcher. The fae has none of these; no abundance of a certain cmc to enjoy vials with; no synergy with coco, and no 1 drops worth playing. So the fae play control-style 1 drops like IOK and TS; and the question is begged: why don't you just play a straight out midrange deck instead of being fae for the sake of it?
Synergy: The fae beg for synergy but can't find it most times. Spellstutter can be cast turn 2 onwards, but there are no one drops; so you're countering a 1 cmc spell on turn 2, or hoping to. Modern decks are at this time preparing to cast Bob, Goyf, Thing in the Ice, Pyromancer Ascension, Temur Battle Rage; well, they are basically playing on curve, or holding up mana to disrupt (perhaps while waiting for delver to flip). The 3-drop fae is a standalone, while the 4-drop requires a fae already on the board to work; no mean feat unless one has already cast bitterblossom 2 turns before (not to mention the blowout that can happen when the singular fae is Bolted with Mclique is on the stack). Successful tribes do not beg the synergy; synergy offers them benefits and not conditions. Merfolk lords strengthen their army but do not collapse due to the ridiculous redundancy they have. Elves likewise have multiple mana producers and are almost always ready to explode with coco, chord or ezuri. Spirits are standalone creatures with decent power that each act like a spell at the same time, and then their lord may just come along and accelerate the clock.
The fae need more 1 and 2 drops. They need powerhouses that don't have preset conditions to be usable or even castable. Until they have the numbers to work reasonably with Coco or vial, they will be second to even goblins (who, when all else fails, will simply bite a stick of dynamite and hurl themselves at the opponent).
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
The Bant Spirit deck plays Hierarch for speed and quality creatures, you also have things like Spell Queller, Collected Company for better value, that's why it just outclass the U/B faeries deck atm.
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Faeries is a clunky control deck
Faeries play hand disruption, token generation
Spirits is a good aggro-control deck
They play mana dorks, collected company, powerful sb options
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
The fact that it so dominated standard around the time of Lorwyn seems to have left some lingering dislike amongst non-faerie players against the tribe. I feel this is totally unjustified as there are other tribal decks that are more difficult to play against, have larger card pools and were even more dominant in their times (anyone remember when playing Onslaught block meant playing against endless goblin decks?). For that reason, that some did get a negative impression, I think the deck has some lingering unpopularity. I have also run into people who seem to regard my faerie deck as me hanging onto some long forgotten standard environment, though that has changed in the last few years as Lorwyn block spins more into myth than memory. Wizards has not been kind to the archetype either, as it has not had a significant infusion of tribal friendly cards that aid its core card selection. It fact Wizards seems almost afraid to print a descent faerie threat while simultaneously continuing to print strong new cards for other tribes. Spirits is a pet tribal deck that has always lingered on the edge of good, as one of the best modern cards (Lingering Souls) is in its tribe. It's been chomping at the bit to run and the recent sets has allowed it to finally run as a creature based tribal deck. It represents the new hotness in tribal and is interesting in its novelty. Over time it will die down unless it is significantly better than other well established tribal groups.
Faeries is control. Always has been, though some of us do run tempo based versions at times. So it is a very different line of play than spirits, even though Spell Queller does a passable yet weaker imitation of a Spellstutter Sprite for an extra mana. Spirits seems a lot more creature based in play.
Besides, saying faeries fail isn't very accurate. Saying that it is a rare deck that is not in favor and very difficult to play well, so it often does not make top showings, is a fairer assessment in my opinion. Those of us who have stood by it admit it has its weaknesses, particularly to aggro strategies, but we are ever improving it and I wouldn't call it a failed archetype just yet. It's seen some recent success in online tournaments for example.
LEGACY:
W Death & Taxes W, GW Enchantress GW, B Pox B
MODERN:
UB Faeries UB
Faerie Christmas to All, and to All a Good Fight.