So my question to folks saying preordaine and counterspell won't make a teir 1 blue deck (which I tend to agree with) the why not unban/reprint them? If preordaine isn't going to break the format I see no reason to deny it to blue, other than wizards hatred of Storm.
To reprint Counterspell you need a Standard essentially lacking other countermagic and good instant-speed removal because if you have both of those, Draw-Go threatens to become a deck, and WotC do not want Draw-Go Control in Standard ever again. They've prioritized conditional counterspells and decent removal over reprinting Counterspell.
What they could do is unban control-oriented cards like JtMS or Twin or Stoneforge or Punishing Fire or Sensei's Divining Top. They don't exactly help the problem of dying on Turn 3 through a removal spell but they make the games you get to Turn 5 much more likely to be wins.
I agree we never will see counterspell come through standard again. The ways of draw go control and powerful counters have been left to legacy, and I don't think wizards ever wants to see them as a top deck in modern or standard again. They are more concerned than anything about controlling or prison style decks taking the fun out of it for casuals, and in general they are way more interested in standard than modern so they arnt warping standard just to satisfy the modern blue players.
I don't think Jace or Twin would be a bad unban, although I don't mind them being banned either. Punishing fire is an absurd card for Jund however, and I'm it sure we want to see that make a return. as for top, there is 0 chance they unban that unless they ban counterbalance at the same time, Wizards will never allow even a weak, Force-less version of Miracles to exist in modern. That deck is a shining example of what they don't want in their supported formats.
I'm all for unbanning preordain and hell maybe even ponder, as it can't possibly hurt the blue decks even if it dosnt suddenly bring control to teir 1. But that won't happen either because wizards will not tolerate even the posibility of Storm being a top deck again.
I agree with this but this cycle isn't true anymore. Midrange beats most of combo decks in Modern while it is supposed to be different, (Jeskai) Control beats aggro and it should be just the opposite and so on.
Based on what you said, Midrange (for example, Jund) beats combo, at the same time, Midrange beats control and aggro.
What is the weak point for Midrange?
I do not buy your point.
Jund loses to ramp, control and some (Junk for example) midrange decks.
I don't view Dredge as a combo deck. I mean, yes, it cheats on mana, but if that was the only criterion, Miracles would be a combo deck by virtue of the Countertop lock granting a never-ending stream of Mental Missteps, and its 5-mana discounts on Force and Terminus.
It's more accurately described as a very fast, very resilient aggro deck, like Affinity. Hate is devastating, but you can play through it.
Affinity:
- Speed = Mox, Drum
- Resilience = Nexuses with Plating
- Playing through hate = 5 power on the board before the Stony Silence, or Ghirapur Aether Grid
Dredge:
- Speed = getting creatures by triggers instead of paying mana
- Resilience = Bloodghasts and Amalgams returning after they're killed, also hardcasted Grave-Trolls
- Playing through hate = 5 power on the board before the RIP, or simply hardcasting creatures (opponent mulliganing low to find his hate helps)
I agree with this but this cycle isn't true anymore. Midrange beats most of combo decks in Modern while it is supposed to be different, (Jeskai) Control beats aggro and it should be just the opposite and so on.
You might be a bit confused about what midrange and control means. 'Jeskai control' you refer to here is actually a tempo combo deck, not control really, but closer to midrange (tempo is closer to midrange than other types, but not quite an exact match) than control in behavior.
Modern's midrange decks are actually closer to (ridiculously overpowered) control decks in behavior, but only against certain types of combo decks, due to the limitations of certain cards they play and those cards not actually being built for control, but just happening to function like it against much of the modern metagame. Their heavy discard and flexible removal suite is a very control styled mechanic, they create artificial card advantage like a control deck through various ways (even if it is through card superiority rather than card draw like a traditional control deck), and they also play things like wraths (except not full fledged ones all the time, focusing more on things like Anger of the Gods which hate more on aggro than the proper wraths that control tends to prefer in their longer game times). The cards the midrange decks have just happen to be overpowered against a large swath of combo decks compared to how it should be balance wise, things like Abrupt Decay, Inquisition of Kozilek, Tarmogoyf, and Thoughtseize are actually almost completely broken as midrange cards, just modern couldn't handle combo without midrange having OP tools like that since we don't have a full proper coherent control deck, and there are enough other ridiculous decks out there to keep up with the current midrange to create weird meta where decks largely play past each-other because interaction is wonky and largely unable to keep up with the sheer linear power we have.
is modern dying or something or is it just standard season?
I think it's just Standard Season. There's new toys and Vehicles are pretty good - here's looking at you Smuggler's Copter.
Standard also is a bit more interesting than it was during the Collected Company times.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
is modern dying or something or is it just standard season?
It's Standard season. Nonrotating formats have inconsistent coverage throughout the year, particularly after a big Standard Pro Tour and a series of other large Standard events. Add the fact that new Standard is much more interesting than old CoCo Standard and people are extra excited about the new environment. I expect Modern coverage and content to increase as we get closer to more important events, which is business as usual for a nonrotating format.
is modern dying or something or is it just standard season?
I think it's just Standard Season. There's new toys and Vehicles are pretty good - here's looking at you Smuggler's Copter.
Standard also is a bit more interesting than it was during the Collected Company times.
Copter is driving me nuts. I'm actually interested in dipping my toe into standard again but I don't want to buy the playset of copters that's required for almost every deck.
is modern dying or something or is it just standard season?
I think it's just Standard Season. There's new toys and Vehicles are pretty good - here's looking at you Smuggler's Copter.
Standard also is a bit more interesting than it was during the Collected Company times.
Copter is driving me nuts. I'm actually interested in dipping my toe into standard again but I don't want to buy the playset of copters that's required for almost every deck.
You can always get the play set (I think they're only $12 each right now) if you like playing them. Otherwise, there are some good Control decks from what I've heard. But, enough of Standard - a format that I hate so much!
*Yes, I forgot that Control decks have Torrential Gearhulk, another fairly high priced card.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
i played a little bit of standard recently with some dynavolt tower decks and its fun but if youre serious about consistent payout i feel you need copters, gideon, or some b/g stuff. that b/g deck looks fun but i missed the train on that one.
I found aggro decks being favored against their natural predator, combo decks, a big problem with metagame balance in this format. Speed is everything in this format, consistency is not even a real thing in this format in terms of card selection. You achieve ideal opening hands with extreme amounts of redundancy and many many mulligans.
I think modern is alright now. Linear decks are at it's finest because most of them attacks at different angles, which control decks can't all contain. Combo decks suffers from the turn 4 rule, considering quite a lot of time aggro decks can T3-T4 you.
Out of ban list changes I've been thinking about there are 2 that I think would be at least worth considering
Most of us know how much of a well-oiled machine Twin was. One of the reasons of it's success was the fact that Exarch was dodging many removal spells. Abrupt Decay, Terminate and Path to Exile, with Dismember as a runner-up were pretty mmuch required in a deck, otherwise you'd be risking bad matchup against one of the most represented decks.
Pestermite, however, promotes interacting, being powerful (enabling Twin combo) and fragile at the same time. Quite a lot of decks need to deal with x/1 creatures, mostly in Infect and Affinity. Would Pestermite Twin still dominate and reign over all of Modern? Perhaps, but we'll never know unless we try.
2) Unban Stoneforge Mystic
An artificer so powerful, it was banned before modern has even started, Stoneforge Mystic seems like a missing link in making white a worthwhile base color, rather than Path-and-SB-cards-fodder. Looking at all the things this card brings we can "vivisect" it into certain categories:
- Being a creature - Modern is heavily a creature format, which makes it a removal format as well. It's worth to keep in mind that SFM is on decline in Legacy, ever since printing a more efficient removal (Abrupt Decay). The only shell that Mystic is still played is D&T, thanks to it's unique mana denial plan.
- First ability (trigger) - As opposed to Legacy, which is mostly spells format (which makes it a counterspell format), Modern is a removal format. Considering that we can assume that if a player casts SFM, most of the time he at least gets to resolve it's trigger. The CA the trigger brings could be a breather for some control/midrange strategies. Also the ability itself may range from quite good (let's say in Abzan shell with 4 SFM, 1 BSkull and 1 Sword), to outright busted in a shell that could make a gret use of it (think modern D&T, with Flickerwisps and Displacers to generate significant CA).
- Second ability (activated ability) - Ability that, paired with tutor trigget, makes SFM a threat deserving immediate attention. It let us cheat on mana, ignote timing restrictions and doge counterspells. T3 BSkull sounds scary, more so considering you've used only SFM and 2 lands to do it.
- Equipments - Another important point I like to call a Mana Crypt symptom - Crypt is as powerful as cards that it lets you cast. Equipments in modern are cetrainly powerful, even without Jitte (thank godness). BSkull is brought up the most when talking about SFM unban, and rightfully so. It's simple, is't boring, it's powerful. Skull is a pretty complicated threat, so regular removal might not be enough to deal with it. Also popular hate that would be good against SFM wouldn't overlap with hate against BSkull. It doesn't mean there is none (Damping Matrix, anyone?), but that could be tough. Then we have Swords of X and Y (notably Fire and Ice and Feast and Famine). Seeing pretty much none play, even though the power level is certainly there, SFM could let them shine in modern again. Another thing is there are many more fringe equipments (notably Sword of the Meek) that could really make use of some consistency improvement.
I guess these are not all the points that could be said about these cases, but all I could think about.
Why do you think SFM would make white a worthwhile base color ? All it requires is 1 white to play and 1 white to activate, even with SFM white will still just be a support color. If her casting cost was WW I would probably agree with you because a heavier white mana commitment in the mana base is required.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I think modern is alright now. Linear decks are at it's finest because most of them attacks at different angles, which control decks can't all contain. Combo decks suffers from the turn 4 rule, considering quite a lot of time aggro decks can T3-T4 you.
Out of ban list changes I've been thinking about there are 2 that I think would be at least worth considering
Most of us know how much of a well-oiled machine Twin was. One of the reasons of it's success was the fact that Exarch was dodging many removal spells. Abrupt Decay, Terminate and Path to Exile, with Dismember as a runner-up were pretty mmuch required in a deck, otherwise you'd be risking bad matchup against one of the most represented decks.
Pestermite, however, promotes interacting, being powerful (enabling Twin combo) and fragile at the same time. Quite a lot of decks need to deal with x/1 creatures, mostly in Infect and Affinity. Would Pestermite Twin still dominate and reign over all of Modern? Perhaps, but we'll never know unless we try.
Considering the additional uptick of Terminate, Path, Dismember, and even Murderous Cut and Slaughter Pact because of Eldrazi, I'm not convinced Exarch would even be that much of a problem. Although, IF it became a problem, Exarch would be the easiest removal to power down the deck without removing it entirely. As a side note, it's ironic that Forsythe himself made comments before Eldrazi was banned that he didn't want to nuke that deck out of existence, despite being the most dominant and oppressive deck Modern has ever seen. If only Twin received even half as much consideration...
There are many good white creatures that haven't really found a home. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben has a really powerful effect, but don't see play outside hatebears/D&T. There are many more, just being outclassed by sheer power of things like Tarmogoyf or Snapcaster Mage.
There are many good white creatures that haven't really found a home. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben has a really powerful effect, but don't see play outside hatebears/D&T. There are many more, just being outclassed by sheer power of things like Tarmogoyf or Snapcaster Mage.
They need a good 1cc critter to shore up white's base color potential. Something like mom would be an excellent place to start.
The problem with banning exarch to unban twin is that Exarch is the kind of card WotC would love to print similar versions of in the future in Standard, and is generally fine without something like Twin hanging around. Being able to freely create new exarch-like cards is probably more important to WotC than being able to create new cards like Twin which combo with them, especially with how quintessentially blue exarch can be.
The problem with banning exarch to unban twin is that Exarch is the kind of card WotC would love to print similar versions of in the future in Standard, and is generally fine without something like Twin hanging around. Being able to freely create new exarch-like cards is probably more important to WotC than being able to create new cards like Twin which combo with them, especially with how quintessentially blue exarch can be.
Exarch is a horrible card that sees no play unless it is in a combo. Cards that are like Exarch or even just slightly similar also see no play. I would not be worried at all about new "Exarch-like" cards, and I sure as heck wouldn't make banning decisions based around these hypothetical non-existent cards.
The problem with banning exarch to unban twin is that Exarch is the kind of card WotC would love to print similar versions of in the future in Standard, and is generally fine without something like Twin hanging around. Being able to freely create new exarch-like cards is probably more important to WotC than being able to create new cards like Twin which combo with them, especially with how quintessentially blue exarch can be.
This is dumb, Twin isn't a problem. The metagame before Twin was banned was much healthier than the one we have today.
There are many good white creatures that haven't really found a home. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben has a really powerful effect, but don't see play outside hatebears/D&T. There are many more, just being outclassed by sheer power of things like Tarmogoyf or Snapcaster Mage.
The problem with Thalia is that modern is just much more creature based than legacy. In legacy, you play 8+ cantrips to dig for lands, and a 2cc brainstorm, ponder or preordain, can lose the game. In modern, she doesn't really do anything, because the general larger creatures in modern don't let you present a clock.
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Legacy
Death and Taxes Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
I generally think a playstyle like Nahiri is more healthy to promote than a deck like twin, not only because Jeskai Nahiri is more of a control deck than Twin ever really was, but simply because it's easier to maintain its bad matchups. There are far fewer combinations of draws Nahiri can make that wins it the game on the spot compared to twin. But
1) Promoting that kind of play requires the printing of some strong answers which Wizards seems hellbent on making sure never happens
2) It's easier and in line with previous behavior to attempt meta repairs through bans/unbans than injecting cards specifically for modern through modern(not to mention the timeline from card design to release is easily 18 months or more)
3) It might take a lot of iterations to get a "good-enough-but-not-broken-answer", making the 18 months from design to release even more troublesome.
4) Twin is a known quantity as it resided in modern for 4 years before its ban.
Which in my opinion makes the twin unban the most likely and easiest solution to the current issues with modern.
The main issue I see as different between Nahiri and Twin in terms of "control" is Nahiri seeks to control using spells. So if you have the wrong spells in hand, you can just lose (Anger of the Gods does nothing against Ad Nauseam and Mana Leak does nothing against a board full of 1 and 2 drop creatures). Twin was able to control through fear. Whether you had the answer or not, whether you had the combo or not, opponents had to respect that you MIGHT, and play around it. With Twin gone and every other control deck horribly weak, that tactic is basically completely gone in Modern. The philosophy now is to dump your hand, flood the board, explode as quickly as possible, and cross your fingers that your opponent doesn't have an answer (or can't kill you first). It promotes games that rely more on your top 10 cards than your decisions and actions. But back to the idea of control, Nahiri is so much weaker because not only is its win condition slower and clunkier, but because it cannot be done at instant speed, there's no fear. Without fear, people dump their hands. When people dump their hands, you HAVE to have answers right away. Since Modern's answers are mostly narrow or weak, this means you get caught with wrong or ineffective answers. Wrong answers lead to lost games. And this is why Nahiri has slipped and fallen every single update since it's inaugural weekend.
So like you said, we pretty much know those better answers aren't coming. So these control decks NEED a better way to win (or inspire fear). Right now, there is not a better option to do that than Twin. And with Wizards' philosophy on gameplay design, it doesn't look like anything else is coming down the pipeline in new printings.
On second thought, when you think about deck construction, the lack of interaction in modern comes down to there not being enough good THREATS to win the game.
With show and tell you need 20 lands, 4 show and tell, and 4 emrakul. this is 28 cards and leaves room for 32 interactive spells.
With through the breach you're running at least 24 lands, 4 breach, 4 emrakul, but also at least 10 ramp spells (its hard to get to 5 mana). This only leaves room for 18 miscellaneous spells.
Obviously the show and tell deck probably runs lots of can trips and sneak attack, and the breach deck runs prime times ect but you get the point. I think splinter twin and birthing pod were interactive decks because they could afford the deck space. They're low cmc spells that can win the game much like natural order or show and tell.
For what its worth... my local store has stopped complaining about dredge now. They accept they need grave hate. And now they run 2-3 grave hates in the side my games are much closer and wayyy more interactive. In fact, most of the store wonders to my table now, since.dredge forces counter hate and its fun to watch the deck dance around it or counter it, which often turns into a grind fest.
Or I flat lose. Dredge is tier one, but when people stop complaining and learn how to play against it its alot closer.
Haleriously, infect is one of the more interactive decks I play against.
I agree we never will see counterspell come through standard again. The ways of draw go control and powerful counters have been left to legacy, and I don't think wizards ever wants to see them as a top deck in modern or standard again. They are more concerned than anything about controlling or prison style decks taking the fun out of it for casuals, and in general they are way more interested in standard than modern so they arnt warping standard just to satisfy the modern blue players.
I don't think Jace or Twin would be a bad unban, although I don't mind them being banned either. Punishing fire is an absurd card for Jund however, and I'm it sure we want to see that make a return. as for top, there is 0 chance they unban that unless they ban counterbalance at the same time, Wizards will never allow even a weak, Force-less version of Miracles to exist in modern. That deck is a shining example of what they don't want in their supported formats.
I'm all for unbanning preordain and hell maybe even ponder, as it can't possibly hurt the blue decks even if it dosnt suddenly bring control to teir 1. But that won't happen either because wizards will not tolerate even the posibility of Storm being a top deck again.
I would say burn falls into that camp aswell, although it's more akin to storm than say traditional "slap these spells together" combo.
Jund hardly loses to Jeskai control.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
It's more accurately described as a very fast, very resilient aggro deck, like Affinity. Hate is devastating, but you can play through it.
Affinity:
- Speed = Mox, Drum
- Resilience = Nexuses with Plating
- Playing through hate = 5 power on the board before the Stony Silence, or Ghirapur Aether Grid
Dredge:
- Speed = getting creatures by triggers instead of paying mana
- Resilience = Bloodghasts and Amalgams returning after they're killed, also hardcasted Grave-Trolls
- Playing through hate = 5 power on the board before the RIP, or simply hardcasting creatures (opponent mulliganing low to find his hate helps)
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
You might be a bit confused about what midrange and control means. 'Jeskai control' you refer to here is actually a tempo combo deck, not control really, but closer to midrange (tempo is closer to midrange than other types, but not quite an exact match) than control in behavior.
Modern's midrange decks are actually closer to (ridiculously overpowered) control decks in behavior, but only against certain types of combo decks, due to the limitations of certain cards they play and those cards not actually being built for control, but just happening to function like it against much of the modern metagame. Their heavy discard and flexible removal suite is a very control styled mechanic, they create artificial card advantage like a control deck through various ways (even if it is through card superiority rather than card draw like a traditional control deck), and they also play things like wraths (except not full fledged ones all the time, focusing more on things like Anger of the Gods which hate more on aggro than the proper wraths that control tends to prefer in their longer game times). The cards the midrange decks have just happen to be overpowered against a large swath of combo decks compared to how it should be balance wise, things like Abrupt Decay, Inquisition of Kozilek, Tarmogoyf, and Thoughtseize are actually almost completely broken as midrange cards, just modern couldn't handle combo without midrange having OP tools like that since we don't have a full proper coherent control deck, and there are enough other ridiculous decks out there to keep up with the current midrange to create weird meta where decks largely play past each-other because interaction is wonky and largely unable to keep up with the sheer linear power we have.
I think it's just Standard Season. There's new toys and Vehicles are pretty good - here's looking at you Smuggler's Copter.
Standard also is a bit more interesting than it was during the Collected Company times.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)It's Standard season. Nonrotating formats have inconsistent coverage throughout the year, particularly after a big Standard Pro Tour and a series of other large Standard events. Add the fact that new Standard is much more interesting than old CoCo Standard and people are extra excited about the new environment. I expect Modern coverage and content to increase as we get closer to more important events, which is business as usual for a nonrotating format.
Copter is driving me nuts. I'm actually interested in dipping my toe into standard again but I don't want to buy the playset of copters that's required for almost every deck.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
You can always get the play set (I think they're only $12 each right now) if you like playing them. Otherwise, there are some good Control decks from what I've heard. But, enough of Standard - a format that I hate so much!
*Yes, I forgot that Control decks have Torrential Gearhulk, another fairly high priced card.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Out of ban list changes I've been thinking about there are 2 that I think would be at least worth considering
1) Ban Deceiver Exarch, #FreeSplinterTwin
Most of us know how much of a well-oiled machine Twin was. One of the reasons of it's success was the fact that Exarch was dodging many removal spells. Abrupt Decay, Terminate and Path to Exile, with Dismember as a runner-up were pretty mmuch required in a deck, otherwise you'd be risking bad matchup against one of the most represented decks.
Pestermite, however, promotes interacting, being powerful (enabling Twin combo) and fragile at the same time. Quite a lot of decks need to deal with x/1 creatures, mostly in Infect and Affinity. Would Pestermite Twin still dominate and reign over all of Modern? Perhaps, but we'll never know unless we try.
2) Unban Stoneforge Mystic
An artificer so powerful, it was banned before modern has even started, Stoneforge Mystic seems like a missing link in making white a worthwhile base color, rather than Path-and-SB-cards-fodder. Looking at all the things this card brings we can "vivisect" it into certain categories:
- Being a creature - Modern is heavily a creature format, which makes it a removal format as well. It's worth to keep in mind that SFM is on decline in Legacy, ever since printing a more efficient removal (Abrupt Decay). The only shell that Mystic is still played is D&T, thanks to it's unique mana denial plan.
- First ability (trigger) - As opposed to Legacy, which is mostly spells format (which makes it a counterspell format), Modern is a removal format. Considering that we can assume that if a player casts SFM, most of the time he at least gets to resolve it's trigger. The CA the trigger brings could be a breather for some control/midrange strategies. Also the ability itself may range from quite good (let's say in Abzan shell with 4 SFM, 1 BSkull and 1 Sword), to outright busted in a shell that could make a gret use of it (think modern D&T, with Flickerwisps and Displacers to generate significant CA).
- Second ability (activated ability) - Ability that, paired with tutor trigget, makes SFM a threat deserving immediate attention. It let us cheat on mana, ignote timing restrictions and doge counterspells. T3 BSkull sounds scary, more so considering you've used only SFM and 2 lands to do it.
- Equipments - Another important point I like to call a Mana Crypt symptom - Crypt is as powerful as cards that it lets you cast. Equipments in modern are cetrainly powerful, even without Jitte (thank godness). BSkull is brought up the most when talking about SFM unban, and rightfully so. It's simple, is't boring, it's powerful. Skull is a pretty complicated threat, so regular removal might not be enough to deal with it. Also popular hate that would be good against SFM wouldn't overlap with hate against BSkull. It doesn't mean there is none (Damping Matrix, anyone?), but that could be tough. Then we have Swords of X and Y (notably Fire and Ice and Feast and Famine). Seeing pretty much none play, even though the power level is certainly there, SFM could let them shine in modern again. Another thing is there are many more fringe equipments (notably Sword of the Meek) that could really make use of some consistency improvement.
I guess these are not all the points that could be said about these cases, but all I could think about.
MTGO: UberMower
Considering the additional uptick of Terminate, Path, Dismember, and even Murderous Cut and Slaughter Pact because of Eldrazi, I'm not convinced Exarch would even be that much of a problem. Although, IF it became a problem, Exarch would be the easiest removal to power down the deck without removing it entirely. As a side note, it's ironic that Forsythe himself made comments before Eldrazi was banned that he didn't want to nuke that deck out of existence, despite being the most dominant and oppressive deck Modern has ever seen. If only Twin received even half as much consideration...
Edit: as far as hate, don't forget there's tons of options: there's Spellskite, Torpor Orb, Suppression Field, Ghostly Prison, Rending Volley, Combust, Rakdos Charm, Illness in the Ranks, Night of Souls' Betrayal, Nature's Claim, Pithing Needle, any number of counterspells, and probably others that I have overlooked. Many of those are also excellent at serving double duty in a meta full of aggressive creature decks too.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
MTGO: UberMower
They need a good 1cc critter to shore up white's base color potential. Something like mom would be an excellent place to start.
Exarch is a horrible card that sees no play unless it is in a combo. Cards that are like Exarch or even just slightly similar also see no play. I would not be worried at all about new "Exarch-like" cards, and I sure as heck wouldn't make banning decisions based around these hypothetical non-existent cards.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
This is dumb, Twin isn't a problem. The metagame before Twin was banned was much healthier than the one we have today.
The problem with Thalia is that modern is just much more creature based than legacy. In legacy, you play 8+ cantrips to dig for lands, and a 2cc brainstorm, ponder or preordain, can lose the game. In modern, she doesn't really do anything, because the general larger creatures in modern don't let you present a clock.
Death and Taxes
Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron
Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
The main issue I see as different between Nahiri and Twin in terms of "control" is Nahiri seeks to control using spells. So if you have the wrong spells in hand, you can just lose (Anger of the Gods does nothing against Ad Nauseam and Mana Leak does nothing against a board full of 1 and 2 drop creatures). Twin was able to control through fear. Whether you had the answer or not, whether you had the combo or not, opponents had to respect that you MIGHT, and play around it. With Twin gone and every other control deck horribly weak, that tactic is basically completely gone in Modern. The philosophy now is to dump your hand, flood the board, explode as quickly as possible, and cross your fingers that your opponent doesn't have an answer (or can't kill you first). It promotes games that rely more on your top 10 cards than your decisions and actions. But back to the idea of control, Nahiri is so much weaker because not only is its win condition slower and clunkier, but because it cannot be done at instant speed, there's no fear. Without fear, people dump their hands. When people dump their hands, you HAVE to have answers right away. Since Modern's answers are mostly narrow or weak, this means you get caught with wrong or ineffective answers. Wrong answers lead to lost games. And this is why Nahiri has slipped and fallen every single update since it's inaugural weekend.
So like you said, we pretty much know those better answers aren't coming. So these control decks NEED a better way to win (or inspire fear). Right now, there is not a better option to do that than Twin. And with Wizards' philosophy on gameplay design, it doesn't look like anything else is coming down the pipeline in new printings.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
With show and tell you need 20 lands, 4 show and tell, and 4 emrakul. this is 28 cards and leaves room for 32 interactive spells.
With through the breach you're running at least 24 lands, 4 breach, 4 emrakul, but also at least 10 ramp spells (its hard to get to 5 mana). This only leaves room for 18 miscellaneous spells.
Obviously the show and tell deck probably runs lots of can trips and sneak attack, and the breach deck runs prime times ect but you get the point. I think splinter twin and birthing pod were interactive decks because they could afford the deck space. They're low cmc spells that can win the game much like natural order or show and tell.
Or I flat lose. Dredge is tier one, but when people stop complaining and learn how to play against it its alot closer.
Haleriously, infect is one of the more interactive decks I play against.