I'm not sure how the magic product release schedule directly correlates with the health of the modern format?
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Modern is ok right now. It's neat to see so many different decks but the amount of angles to play against tends to get old. I don't want to just win, I want to have fun while doing so (this is a hobby after all), and trying to tune decks to metas that can run Valakut, Amalgam, Blood moon, Ad Nauseam, Ensnaring Bridge, Glistener Elves, Ravagers, and Bushwhackers is just extremely difficult and taxing as it's just too many different lines of play to prepare for. Practicing feels futile because you spend so much time preparing against 'x' number of decks only to see a completely different set at a tournament. The meta will eventually shift and fluctuate, and I'm looking forward to it.
I think Modern is fine, not great. Many midrange decks are getting pooped on a bit but I think one of the reasons is because there is a pretty narrow mindset about what is good/acceptable or not with established decks, so many decks don't try and adjust to the format in their mainboard.
For example, Jund/Junk have been struggling with Eldrazi and Titanshift matchups. One gentleman in the Jund forum posted a list with Wrench Mind in the main and I think that is awesome. Goes after combo as well as emptying Eldrazi's hand. I am going to test a list with that soon. I remember last year or the year before there was a Big Abzan list (big junk...?) that had mainboard Sigarda, Big Elspeth, Wraths, etc. and it did very well against other midrange/Eldrazi decks. Just a couple examples obviously but you get the idea.
I feel like a lot of the issues that this forum or reddit thinks Modern has is because we all get pigeonholed into certain ways of thinking.
I think Modern is fine, not great. Many midrange decks are getting pooped on a bit but I think one of the reasons is because there is a pretty narrow mindset about what is good/acceptable or not with established decks, so many decks don't try and adjust to the format in their mainboard.
For example, Jund/Junk have been struggling with Eldrazi and Titanshift matchups. One gentleman in the Jund forum posted a list with Wrench Mind in the main and I think that is awesome. Goes after combo as well as emptying Eldrazi's hand. I am going to test a list with that soon. I remember last year or the year before there was a Big Abzan list (big junk...?) that had mainboard Sigarda, Big Elspeth, Wraths, etc. and it did very well against other midrange/Eldrazi decks. Just a couple examples obviously but you get the idea.
I feel like a lot of the issues that this forum or reddit thinks Modern has is because we all get pigeonholed into certain ways of thinking.
You will lose too many games, because your cards are not mana cost efficient, if you try to play Sigarda, Big Elspeth and so on... Good luck resolving them in a meta with heavy LOTV, discard, counters or goldfish decks.
No point in ramping above 4, if you are not cheating Eldrazi titans for 5 mana.
Karn on turn 3 will just laugh at your attempts to play any sort of fair that can't deal with it.
This is such a ridiculously narrow way to view a metagame - of course a turn 3 Karn will laugh at an Elspeth, but currently 95% of decks aren't running Karn - and it's also why sideboards exist.
I feel modern is in a really good spot right now and was my favourite format before Kaladesh came out (gonna give Kaladesh standard a shot before saying anything on it)
The only problem I have with modern is sometimes it feels like there are decks/matchups that are unwinnable no matter how much you know the matchup.
I'll start this thread off, hopefully we can point this thread into a healthy direction.
I honestly feel there is one glaring problem with modern, and thats it. There arent enough main deck powerful answer cards. Most of the ones that exist, exist in jund, which is why we have a "police man" midrange deck, and thats it. I feel there should be more than just these few cards like abrupt decay. Commands were a great step in the right direction.
I think that is moderns problem. Not that blue is weak (since its not.) but a control deck doesnt really exist because it's card pool doesnt allow it to deal with enough threats. I don't want control to have the tools to beat everything, but leveraging it into a place where it can be made to have a 45-50% matchup against most of the field, 70% plus against combo, and 30% against aggro, seems perfectly doable to me, if it had the right carefully printed tools.
But this would mean it would need those tools from wizards giving them through standard.
This is literally my exact sentiment. More powerful main deck cards could open doors for control decks and also interesting tempo brews, both of which I am dying to play successfully in Modern outside of a Jund build.
I think Modern is fine, not great. Many midrange decks are getting pooped on a bit but I think one of the reasons is because there is a pretty narrow mindset about what is good/acceptable or not with established decks, so many decks don't try and adjust to the format in their mainboard.
For example, Jund/Junk have been struggling with Eldrazi and Titanshift matchups. One gentleman in the Jund forum posted a list with Wrench Mind in the main and I think that is awesome. Goes after combo as well as emptying Eldrazi's hand. I am going to test a list with that soon. I remember last year or the year before there was a Big Abzan list (big junk...?) that had mainboard Sigarda, Big Elspeth, Wraths, etc. and it did very well against other midrange/Eldrazi decks. Just a couple examples obviously but you get the idea.
I feel like a lot of the issues that this forum or reddit thinks Modern has is because we all get pigeonholed into certain ways of thinking.
You will lose too many games, because your cards are not mana cost efficient, if you try to play Sigarda, Big Elspeth and so on... Good luck resolving them in a meta with heavy LOTV, discard, counters or goldfish decks.
No point in ramping above 4, if you are not cheating Eldrazi titans for 5 mana.
Karn on turn 3 will just laugh at your attempts to play any sort of fair that can't deal with it.
This is such a ridiculously narrow way to view a metagame - of course a turn 3 Karn will laugh at an Elspeth, but currently 95% of decks aren't running Karn - and it's also why sideboards exist.
It's the exact type of response I was talking about in my post. People ***** on ideas on this forum 99% of the time unless it comes from LSV or Reid or something. Yes there are bad ideas but often good ones (or ideas worth testing at least) are dismissed just as quickly.
I think Modern is fine, not great. Many midrange decks are getting pooped on a bit but I think one of the reasons is because there is a pretty narrow mindset about what is good/acceptable or not with established decks, so many decks don't try and adjust to the format in their mainboard.
For example, Jund/Junk have been struggling with Eldrazi and Titanshift matchups. One gentleman in the Jund forum posted a list with Wrench Mind in the main and I think that is awesome. Goes after combo as well as emptying Eldrazi's hand. I am going to test a list with that soon. I remember last year or the year before there was a Big Abzan list (big junk...?) that had mainboard Sigarda, Big Elspeth, Wraths, etc. and it did very well against other midrange/Eldrazi decks. Just a couple examples obviously but you get the idea.
I feel like a lot of the issues that this forum or reddit thinks Modern has is because we all get pigeonholed into certain ways of thinking.
You will lose too many games, because your cards are not mana cost efficient, if you try to play Sigarda, Big Elspeth and so on... Good luck resolving them in a meta with heavy LOTV, discard, counters or goldfish decks.
No point in ramping above 4, if you are not cheating Eldrazi titans for 5 mana.
Karn on turn 3 will just laugh at your attempts to play any sort of fair that can't deal with it.
This is such a ridiculously narrow way to view a metagame - of course a turn 3 Karn will laugh at an Elspeth, but currently 95% of decks aren't running Karn - and it's also why sideboards exist.
It's the exact type of response I was talking about in my post. People ***** on ideas on this forum 99% of the time unless it comes from LSV or Reid or something. Yes there are bad ideas but often good ones (or ideas worth testing at least) are dismissed just as quickly.
People with attitudes like this don't win competitive events because the method of thinking is too stuck in the box.
I think Modern is fine, not great. Many midrange decks are getting pooped on a bit but I think one of the reasons is because there is a pretty narrow mindset about what is good/acceptable or not with established decks, so many decks don't try and adjust to the format in their mainboard.
For example, Jund/Junk have been struggling with Eldrazi and Titanshift matchups. One gentleman in the Jund forum posted a list with Wrench Mind in the main and I think that is awesome. Goes after combo as well as emptying Eldrazi's hand. I am going to test a list with that soon. I remember last year or the year before there was a Big Abzan list (big junk...?) that had mainboard Sigarda, Big Elspeth, Wraths, etc. and it did very well against other midrange/Eldrazi decks. Just a couple examples obviously but you get the idea.
I feel like a lot of the issues that this forum or reddit thinks Modern has is because we all get pigeonholed into certain ways of thinking.
You will lose too many games, because your cards are not mana cost efficient, if you try to play Sigarda, Big Elspeth and so on... Good luck resolving them in a meta with heavy LOTV, discard, counters or goldfish decks.
No point in ramping above 4, if you are not cheating Eldrazi titans for 5 mana.
Karn on turn 3 will just laugh at your attempts to play any sort of fair that can't deal with it.
This is such a ridiculously narrow way to view a metagame - of course a turn 3 Karn will laugh at an Elspeth, but currently 95% of decks aren't running Karn - and it's also why sideboards exist.
It's the exact type of response I was talking about in my post. People ***** on ideas on this forum 99% of the time unless it comes from LSV or Reid or something. Yes there are bad ideas but often good ones (or ideas worth testing at least) are dismissed just as quickly.
Well, if you attend larger events, running those cards will lose you more games than win. The modern meta is more aggro-focused than it is with decks like Eldrazi. Statistically, they will be worse cards than other cheaper options when Eldrazi/Mid-range decks represent ~15% of the meta and the combo/aggro decks make up a significantly larger percentage. This is why people "poo poo" those suggestions. Are those cards great against those MU's? Yes. Are they going to help you in a general sense? No.
It's why Abzan and Jund are playing Grim Flayer. People are adjusting, it's just the generic answer tools are so poor in comparison to the range of efficient threats in the format. It's not "we're doing it wrong", it's a problem of threats vs. answers. Unfortunately, this is only going to get worse as WoTC continues with their current R&D approach with standard. I can't imagine what Modern will be like in a couple years. It's all ready mostly a T3/3.5 format which makes a lot of cards on the ban-list a joke.
Also a lot of players make the biggest mistake when constructing their deck of building it towards the larger meta when they're only just playing in local events. Can you do well with Control locally? Sure, and I do because that's what I enjoy playing and sometimes it feels unfair when you know all the people and what they play so your deck is finely tuned to crush the larger meta shares because of a smaller player pool. That's irrelevant though to modern in general and what's more important - larger events and the macro sphere. Modern is unhealthy. The stool has tipped over onto its side because it's so one-sided. Instead of printing more efficient threats with value tacked on, they need to print better answers to meet the hyper efficient threats. Unfortunately, WoTC is so paralyzed with making good answer cards that the format is only going to get more and more degenerate. I'll still play Modern because I get to play with Snapcaster, Think Twice, Bolt, etc., but I'm not deluding myself that the format will improve. Maybe I'd have more faith if WoTC unbanned Sensei's Top to slow the format down, or Twin or something, but that's even more unlikely than them printing good answers in the new R&D era. So, yeah, things are only looking down, not up.
Before we continue down this road - I/D designs for standard, and they do so in a way that allows for a variety of different types of strategies to thrive. There is no 'problem' with I/D and their approach to current card design, we're simply playing in a format that is not a main priority or focus of modern design.
I do hope they we get some new answers but expecting them is a mistake.
While I don't agree whatsoever that the format is healthy, after embracing the state it's in and giving up on trying to be an overly reactive deck, the games I've been playing have been much better. Nobody is packing counterspells and very few people are running any removal or running a bare-minimum suite). With that in mind, a T1 Delver and T2 Young Pyromancer or Tasigur backed by light removal and burn spells was good enough for me to 3-1 over the past two Modern Mondays. It comes with a caveat though, because while I would much rather be playing a control-ish deck, and I miss playing 12 counterspells, I don't like losing. And playing a control deck means losing a lot in Modern. It doesn't matter how well you metagame and it doesn't matter how well you play if you simply don't draw the right cards and the right time or happen to be paired up against a deck you don't have a specific answer for. Redundant and resilient threats are just so much better than answers in Modern, so there's really no incentive against jamming as many quick and powerful threats as possible. I would rather the format have a better representation of archetypes in the top tiers (you know, like when Twin was around...), but if no one is packing much interaction, you can at least build your decks with that in mind: either damage racing with a faster deck or damage racing with a SMALL amount of interaction to mildly slow down your opponent. But at the end of the day, almost all matches in Modern are races.
While I don't agree whatsoever that the format is healthy, after embracing the state it's in and giving up on trying to be an overly reactive deck, the games I've been playing have been much better. Nobody is packing counterspells and very few people are running any removal or running a bare-minimum suite). With that in mind, a T1 Delver and T2 Young Pyromancer or Tasigur backed by light removal and burn spells was good enough for me to 3-1 over the past two Modern Mondays. It comes with a caveat though, because while I would much rather be playing a control-ish deck, and I miss playing 12 counterspells, I don't like losing. And playing a control deck means losing a lot in Modern. It doesn't matter how well you metagame and it doesn't matter how well you play if you simply don't draw the right cards and the right time or happen to be paired up against a deck you don't have a specific answer for. Redundant and resilient threats are just so much better than answers in Modern, so there's really no incentive against jamming as many quick and powerful threats as possible. I would rather the format have a better representation of archetypes in the top tiers (you know, like when Twin was around...), but if no one is packing much interaction, you can at least build your decks with that in mind: either damage racing with a faster deck or damage racing with a SMALL amount of interaction to mildly slow down your opponent. But at the end of the day, almost all matches in Modern are races.
I've found the same for the most part as you, and for modern in general, so I've been playing a Thing in the Ice/Bedlam Reveler control deck the past few months that's been fun. Maybe that might interest you since the deck can play reactive for the most part and turn the corner quickly without feeling like you've lost the play-style that you enjoy.
As with any control list: adapt to your meta, but I've found the deck to be very consistent and resilient and TiTi gives you a very good G1 option to "out-race" tough MU's by slowing down the opponent minimally.
While I don't agree whatsoever that the format is healthy, after embracing the state it's in and giving up on trying to be an overly reactive deck, the games I've been playing have been much better. Nobody is packing counterspells and very few people are running any removal or running a bare-minimum suite). With that in mind, a T1 Delver and T2 Young Pyromancer or Tasigur backed by light removal and burn spells was good enough for me to 3-1 over the past two Modern Mondays. It comes with a caveat though, because while I would much rather be playing a control-ish deck, and I miss playing 12 counterspells, I don't like losing. And playing a control deck means losing a lot in Modern. It doesn't matter how well you metagame and it doesn't matter how well you play if you simply don't draw the right cards and the right time or happen to be paired up against a deck you don't have a specific answer for. Redundant and resilient threats are just so much better than answers in Modern, so there's really no incentive against jamming as many quick and powerful threats as possible. I would rather the format have a better representation of archetypes in the top tiers (you know, like when Twin was around...), but if no one is packing much interaction, you can at least build your decks with that in mind: either damage racing with a faster deck or damage racing with a SMALL amount of interaction to mildly slow down your opponent. But at the end of the day, almost all matches in Modern are races.
I've found the same for the most part as you, and for modern in general, so I've been playing a Thing in the Ice/Bedlam Reveler control deck the past few months that's been fun. Maybe that might interest you since the deck can play reactive for the most part and turn the corner quickly without feeling like you've lost the play-style that you enjoy.
As with any control list: adapt to your meta, but I've found the deck to be very consistent and resilient and TiTi gives you a very good G1 option to "out-race" tough MU's by slowing down the opponent minimally.
(Don't dismiss Overwhelming Denial until you've played it in this shell; it's very good or at least not bad :p)
To be honest, I enjoy the way Delver plays; I just have to shift my focus. Rather than trying to play reactively (answer stuff then deploy threat) I have to play proactively (present a threat and see if they deal with it). That means making deck construction choices that change the focus a bit as well, but for the most part, Grixis Delver is probably the most enjoyable deck I have found since the Twin ban (and have spent the past year nearly foiling it out... (only big tickets left are Snaps/Tarns: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-08-16-wFe-grixis-delver/). It's definitely not the best deck in the format, but it's not terrible either, and it's definitely enjoyable to play.
Just making a comment that even the "reactive" decks are becoming less reactive because 1) it's difficult to be reactive effectively and 2) there's just so much more benefit to running more threats than playing more answers.
Edit: I'd like to add that I don't do much brewing anymore these days because my play time is so limited. I'm teaching full time in the day and taking grad school classes at night. So the few times I actually get to make it to Modern Mondays, I want to play with something I enjoy and something I'm very familiar with (that also happens to be very pretty and enjoyable to just shuffle and handle).
Modern is the Magic equivalent of the KFC Double Down. Sometimes delicious, but objectively unhealthy and likely to make you ill if consumed in excess. Often chosen solely due to a lack of available alternatives.
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Infraction for Format Bashing ~Lantern
Before we continue down this road - I/D designs for standard, and they do so in a way that allows for a variety of different types of strategies to thrive. There is no 'problem' with I/D and their approach to current card design, we're simply playing in a format that is not a main priority or focus of modern design.
I do hope they we get some new answers but expecting them is a mistake.
No, there's a very real difference in design from "era" to "era" in Magic, and you can track those changes. There's a reason people say Legacy is all the broken spells from early Magic and all the broken creatures from modern Magic. But in Modern, we don't get those early spells so all we're left with are the more recent creatures.
At last, this thread has been made! Here's my 2 cents.
I think there's a lot of good things happening right now in Modern that people miss. The sheer openness of deck diversity, while it has some detrimental side effects, really make this format one of a kind; I used to love watching legacy because it was this way, but the meta closed up after Inn/RTR and results all look similar now. And on the local/classic level, there are lots of fun games to be had; you only have to face a subset of all the decks in Modern, so you can bring fair grindy decks and actually win tournaments, and the games are fun. The linear decks people hate so much can create some interesting decisions.
That said, when you get to the open/GP level, Modern has serious issues with the sheer number of angles of attack and the lack of answers. These problems are quite infuriating, not because they are large but because they are so small and easily fixable. Blue is very close to doing well, and I think that either Preordain or Counterspell could push it over the edge, but WotC hasn't even considered either of these options - or anything else for that matter. I love this format and probably won't give it up, but I'd really prefer that WotC do at least 1 thing in the next few months, whether it be print new stuff in MM17, unban preordain, reprint counterspell (not likely after the recent Standard Pro tour results), or whatever.
I'm a Modern-Player for 'bout 3 years now.
I attended PTQ's, PPTQ's, FNM's and Local gamestore Tournaments.
When i started, teh Format was quite assesable.
Yes, there has always been a bunch of niche-decks, but there has been Pillars and after that a big pool of Tier 2-3 decks.
This circumstance made the format sonehow predictable.
I knew i had to pack Twin, Jund and Delver-Hate like every time.
Nowadays i really lost my mind about Sideboarding. It became ridiculous crazy - so many decks, so many choices, so many cards to hate on specific Matchups.
I really appreciate our newcomers in Eldrazi and Dredge.
But these are not the only ones that pop up here and there - there's a crap ton of old archetypes that creeps out of there holes, making Sideboarding a horror. It becomes even more frustrating once i recognize that i got no Maindeck-Cards against some Tier'ish-3 Decks.
Wereas these are all personal complains of mine, one thing is really embarrassing:
There are 0 viable All-in Combo Decks right now.
Spell-based Combo is like completely dead archetype, only exception right now are Titan Scapeshift and Griselbrand-Combo, which pops ups randomly.
I'm no more a competitive player right now (because Job, girl friend and other hobbies took over my free time) and it's hard to keep up with the format's wide-spread decks, strategies and secret-sideboard techs. Pillars are nowhere to be found.
I'm a Modern-Player for 'bout 3 years now.
I attended PTQ's, PPTQ's, FNM's and Local gamestore Tournaments.
When i started, teh Format was quite assesable.
Yes, there has always been a bunch of niche-decks, but there has been Pillars and after that a big pool of Tier 2-3 decks.
This circumstance made the format sonehow predictable.
I knew i had to pack Twin, Jund and Delver-Hate like every time.
Nowadays i really lost my mind about Sideboarding. It became ridiculous crazy - so many decks, so many choices, so many cards to hate on specific Matchups.
I really appreciate our newcomers in Eldrazi and Dredge.
But these are not the only ones that pop up here and there - there's a crap ton of old archetypes that creeps out of there holes, making Sideboarding a horror. It becomes even more frustrating once i recognize that i got no Maindeck-Cards against some Tier'ish-3 Decks.
Wereas these are all personal complains of mine, one thing is really embarrassing:
There are 0 viable All-in Combo Decks right now.
Spell-based Combo is like completely dead archetype, only exception right now are Titan Scapeshift and Griselbrand-Combo, which pops ups randomly.
I'm no more a competitive player right now (because Job, girl friend and other hobbies took over my free time) and it's hard to keep up with the format's wide-spread decks, strategies and secret-sideboard techs. Pillars are nowhere to be found.
Sideboarding is tricky, yes.
Many cards shut down 1-2 decks, but you can only commit to those, if you _really_ need them in that match-up and the match-up is regular enough to warrant the slots taken.
Often broad answers with less singular impact are "more handy" (avoiding the term "better", since that depends entirely on your own deck, meta, etc.).
And yeah, a format that is as open as Modern means every now and then you'll lose to the odd Norin Sisters, Mono-Black Devotion or Bubblehulk nonsense.
On the other hand, it also means those decks can be played with a minor, but still existent shot at doing ok to well, depending on the current meta game.
If you prefer only 3 viable decks, that's fine, but many people like the open designspace of Modern and how even brews and weaker decks can do well at times.
Personally I'm always for more options, so more decks are a good thing in my book. ^^
As for combo: Ad Nauseam is still tier 2 and kicking.
Storm might not be, but that isn't the only spell-based combo there is.
And while Titanshift variants can still win with Titan beats and Emrakul, Ad Nauseam is as all in as you can get.
You draw your whole deck and if your control key says "no" when you cast Lightning Storm you're dead (N-not that that happened to me yesterday.. ^^; ).
While I'd like to see Storm or similar combos more often, there are decks you can play as a combo aficionado, even a creatureless one without a "turn your combo dudes sideways" backup plan. ;3
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Control is okay in modern. The issue is that you have to REALLY know how to metagame the deck to do well consistently. And by that I mean you have to know what cards to change in your 75 each week to tool it better against what you are expecting from the meta that you are going to fight. The reason why I honestly think that jeskai/grixis/uw/esper aren't "tier 1" is because you have to change a lot of the 75 out on a week to week basis to do consistently well. Many people aren't extremely practiced with the decks to know how to do that. Wafo proves this whenever he plays a draw go version of one of these decks.
I'm sorry but this is not the definition of "okay".
A good player with high experience with a control deck may bring good results (say for example shoktroopa with Utron).
But a less-good-player with less-experience with a non-control deck may bring the same results.
Why?
This means that the power level of non-control-decks are above the power level of control-decks.
And you need to compensate this power-level-difference with experience and skill.
Also you need to know well the meta, to properly prepare not on only your SB but also your MD answers. While you can bring a super fast aggro/combo deck to a blind meta. And also they are less stressful to play, because you don't change them every week and because a game last less.
Does this picture of the aggro-combo-control scenario seems balanced to you?
This has always been the state of control in modern so if you don't like it you can play a different format tbh. Control has ALWAYS been in this spot since many counterspells and removal are pretty soft in modern. (twin was NOT a control deck so I don't count it) Nothing has really changed since wizards hasn't given control better hard removal/counterspell options (nor do I think they plan to anytime soon) Instead control is left to getting "charm type cards" with k-command/brutality and good planeswalkers like JVP/Nahiri. I don't have an issue with it since I do think that control should have to change it's 75 to be successful. I just think that we could use some better removal options/ways to close out games via printings through standard.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Modern has pillars. Look at the nexus data... it simply does.
And thats one of the things i think most people cant see when they run a tier 2 deck and they commonly ask for more sideboard slots. When I played zoo, it felt like 15 was never enough. I had too many things to hate. I play dredge now, which is it unfair? Yes, but I become super interactive post board.
Its a tier 1 deck, and alot of my hate is mainboard. 1 of darkblast for small aggro and mana dorks, conflag for midrange beaters and going wide strats, haunted dead, which blocks the going tall strats. Postboard: grudge for artifact strats and random stuff like bridges, decay for creature decks and combo peices, thought seize and collective brutality for combo spells, lightning axe for problem creatures, explosives for periminates.
Dredge isnt a tier 1 deck because how good its game 1 is (it helps) but because it basically tutors post sideboard and jund just has a crap ton of answer cards. Im confident no matter what deck goes up in tier, unless its processors, Ill still be tier one. Because of the pool of answer cards I have, and the sheer draw I get to get there with.
I always hated when people say modern is a sideboard format. Ita not true. In fact, you shouldnt be able to side against everything. Your deck shouldnt be able to beat everything or even have a fair match up against everything. That would be tier 0 and unhealthy. Eldrazi could beat everything. It evolved so its bad matchupa like burn or infect were good. Even a deck that goes 50 50 vs everthing isnt really good for the meta. Thats mostly spikes used to standard and dont like losing. Ive always hated this mostly because pros bring it up. Of course you want to win every game. Its your job.
I hope modern stays a format that rewards you for building a board correctly. That means its hella diverse, which I want. Some people love the one deck to beat... but thats standard, and thats fine. I just wish there were some more fair cards like commands so more decks could be tier 1 and eleviate some of the stress taken on boards BECAUSE of the lack of main board answers.
And I dont want it to be legacy where you basically have to run brainstorm to find said answer cards.
I consider this an error.
Twin (in the UBR and UWR forms, the UR one was more a tempo deck) was a control deck with a 6-cards finisher. You can see how it lacked the usual feature of this kind of combo decks: tutors, ramp and rites spells, low interaction...
I agree. UR was a tempo deck, RUG was midrange, and URW/URB was a control deck. But the Oops I win part of it DID stiffle control decks on a whole. I will defend that ban. There was no reason to try any other control deck because twin was the better deck no matter what.
The format is better since its gone. More control decks will see play,,, when more cards are printed/unbanned. Look, some people didnt like twin but liked esper or the like. Those decks need power and that just wont happen with twin in the format, because twin will be just as good with it and invalidate it again.
Control would need a really good answer printed that would have to last awhile, like a reliable counter spell. Remember that Wizards is pumping out considerably more threats than answers lately and control would eventually be stuck again.
You also have tier 1 Abzan, tier 2 Jeskai, the company and chord decks and Ad Nauseam.
Sure, they aren't mono-white, but fish aside, no colour is really represented in a mono- or two-colour deck.
And white even is, in Death'n Taxes, which is a super varied strategy in itself, between WB, W, WG, WBC, etc.
So.. what glaring issues do you see there, or rather, what would want for White?
WhiteWeenie tier 1?
(Not saying White doesn't need help, it kinda is "Path and 1W sideboard enchantments".colour ^^ )
I personally would love to see a Mono-w DnT strategy in tier 1. Kinda fills a control niche, while being creature based enough that wotc cant complain about it. I guess that LD that doesn't suck isn't in the spirit of the modern format though. The real problem with the deck is that it doesn't have the disruption to beat the real unfair decks, and it doesn't have the creature game to beat the dedicated fair decks in modern, aka goyf.
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Legacy
Death and Taxes Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
People really need to stop mentioning Splinter Twin...
But yes, its banning did highlight the underline issues with Modern, there's nothing really left now
to stop hyper linear strategies, and the new kid of the block ( Eldrazi ) bullies the decks that can still play the fair game.
In addition, I think a lot of people are finding Modern more enjoyable from a brewer's perspective is that
whatever they build doesn't have to worry about being combo out more reliably and with a tempo/control back up plan.
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Modern is ok right now. It's neat to see so many different decks but the amount of angles to play against tends to get old. I don't want to just win, I want to have fun while doing so (this is a hobby after all), and trying to tune decks to metas that can run Valakut, Amalgam, Blood moon, Ad Nauseam, Ensnaring Bridge, Glistener Elves, Ravagers, and Bushwhackers is just extremely difficult and taxing as it's just too many different lines of play to prepare for. Practicing feels futile because you spend so much time preparing against 'x' number of decks only to see a completely different set at a tournament. The meta will eventually shift and fluctuate, and I'm looking forward to it.
For example, Jund/Junk have been struggling with Eldrazi and Titanshift matchups. One gentleman in the Jund forum posted a list with Wrench Mind in the main and I think that is awesome. Goes after combo as well as emptying Eldrazi's hand. I am going to test a list with that soon. I remember last year or the year before there was a Big Abzan list (big junk...?) that had mainboard Sigarda, Big Elspeth, Wraths, etc. and it did very well against other midrange/Eldrazi decks. Just a couple examples obviously but you get the idea.
I feel like a lot of the issues that this forum or reddit thinks Modern has is because we all get pigeonholed into certain ways of thinking.
This is such a ridiculously narrow way to view a metagame - of course a turn 3 Karn will laugh at an Elspeth, but currently 95% of decks aren't running Karn - and it's also why sideboards exist.
The only problem I have with modern is sometimes it feels like there are decks/matchups that are unwinnable no matter how much you know the matchup.
It's the exact type of response I was talking about in my post. People ***** on ideas on this forum 99% of the time unless it comes from LSV or Reid or something. Yes there are bad ideas but often good ones (or ideas worth testing at least) are dismissed just as quickly.
People with attitudes like this don't win competitive events because the method of thinking is too stuck in the box.
Well, if you attend larger events, running those cards will lose you more games than win. The modern meta is more aggro-focused than it is with decks like Eldrazi. Statistically, they will be worse cards than other cheaper options when Eldrazi/Mid-range decks represent ~15% of the meta and the combo/aggro decks make up a significantly larger percentage. This is why people "poo poo" those suggestions. Are those cards great against those MU's? Yes. Are they going to help you in a general sense? No.
It's why Abzan and Jund are playing Grim Flayer. People are adjusting, it's just the generic answer tools are so poor in comparison to the range of efficient threats in the format. It's not "we're doing it wrong", it's a problem of threats vs. answers. Unfortunately, this is only going to get worse as WoTC continues with their current R&D approach with standard. I can't imagine what Modern will be like in a couple years. It's all ready mostly a T3/3.5 format which makes a lot of cards on the ban-list a joke.
Also a lot of players make the biggest mistake when constructing their deck of building it towards the larger meta when they're only just playing in local events. Can you do well with Control locally? Sure, and I do because that's what I enjoy playing and sometimes it feels unfair when you know all the people and what they play so your deck is finely tuned to crush the larger meta shares because of a smaller player pool. That's irrelevant though to modern in general and what's more important - larger events and the macro sphere. Modern is unhealthy. The stool has tipped over onto its side because it's so one-sided. Instead of printing more efficient threats with value tacked on, they need to print better answers to meet the hyper efficient threats. Unfortunately, WoTC is so paralyzed with making good answer cards that the format is only going to get more and more degenerate. I'll still play Modern because I get to play with Snapcaster, Think Twice, Bolt, etc., but I'm not deluding myself that the format will improve. Maybe I'd have more faith if WoTC unbanned Sensei's Top to slow the format down, or Twin or something, but that's even more unlikely than them printing good answers in the new R&D era. So, yeah, things are only looking down, not up.
I do hope they we get some new answers but expecting them is a mistake.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I've found the same for the most part as you, and for modern in general, so I've been playing a Thing in the Ice/Bedlam Reveler control deck the past few months that's been fun. Maybe that might interest you since the deck can play reactive for the most part and turn the corner quickly without feeling like you've lost the play-style that you enjoy.
As with any control list: adapt to your meta, but I've found the deck to be very consistent and resilient and TiTi gives you a very good G1 option to "out-race" tough MU's by slowing down the opponent minimally.
https://deckstats.net/decks/302/565154-arise-horror-arise-cntrl?saved=1&lng=en
(Don't dismiss Overwhelming Denial until you've played it in this shell; it's very good or at least not bad :p)
Just making a comment that even the "reactive" decks are becoming less reactive because 1) it's difficult to be reactive effectively and 2) there's just so much more benefit to running more threats than playing more answers.
Edit: I'd like to add that I don't do much brewing anymore these days because my play time is so limited. I'm teaching full time in the day and taking grad school classes at night. So the few times I actually get to make it to Modern Mondays, I want to play with something I enjoy and something I'm very familiar with (that also happens to be very pretty and enjoyable to just shuffle and handle).
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I think there's a lot of good things happening right now in Modern that people miss. The sheer openness of deck diversity, while it has some detrimental side effects, really make this format one of a kind; I used to love watching legacy because it was this way, but the meta closed up after Inn/RTR and results all look similar now. And on the local/classic level, there are lots of fun games to be had; you only have to face a subset of all the decks in Modern, so you can bring fair grindy decks and actually win tournaments, and the games are fun. The linear decks people hate so much can create some interesting decisions.
That said, when you get to the open/GP level, Modern has serious issues with the sheer number of angles of attack and the lack of answers. These problems are quite infuriating, not because they are large but because they are so small and easily fixable. Blue is very close to doing well, and I think that either Preordain or Counterspell could push it over the edge, but WotC hasn't even considered either of these options - or anything else for that matter. I love this format and probably won't give it up, but I'd really prefer that WotC do at least 1 thing in the next few months, whether it be print new stuff in MM17, unban preordain, reprint counterspell (not likely after the recent Standard Pro tour results), or whatever.
I attended PTQ's, PPTQ's, FNM's and Local gamestore Tournaments.
When i started, teh Format was quite assesable.
Yes, there has always been a bunch of niche-decks, but there has been Pillars and after that a big pool of Tier 2-3 decks.
This circumstance made the format sonehow predictable.
I knew i had to pack Twin, Jund and Delver-Hate like every time.
Nowadays i really lost my mind about Sideboarding. It became ridiculous crazy - so many decks, so many choices, so many cards to hate on specific Matchups.
I really appreciate our newcomers in Eldrazi and Dredge.
But these are not the only ones that pop up here and there - there's a crap ton of old archetypes that creeps out of there holes, making Sideboarding a horror. It becomes even more frustrating once i recognize that i got no Maindeck-Cards against some Tier'ish-3 Decks.
Wereas these are all personal complains of mine, one thing is really embarrassing:
There are 0 viable All-in Combo Decks right now.
Spell-based Combo is like completely dead archetype, only exception right now are Titan Scapeshift and Griselbrand-Combo, which pops ups randomly.
I'm no more a competitive player right now (because Job, girl friend and other hobbies took over my free time) and it's hard to keep up with the format's wide-spread decks, strategies and secret-sideboard techs. Pillars are nowhere to be found.
Green @ it's best
I'll see if I can follow up with something of my own, a bit later.
Sideboarding is tricky, yes.
Many cards shut down 1-2 decks, but you can only commit to those, if you _really_ need them in that match-up and the match-up is regular enough to warrant the slots taken.
Often broad answers with less singular impact are "more handy" (avoiding the term "better", since that depends entirely on your own deck, meta, etc.).
And yeah, a format that is as open as Modern means every now and then you'll lose to the odd Norin Sisters, Mono-Black Devotion or Bubblehulk nonsense.
On the other hand, it also means those decks can be played with a minor, but still existent shot at doing ok to well, depending on the current meta game.
If you prefer only 3 viable decks, that's fine, but many people like the open designspace of Modern and how even brews and weaker decks can do well at times.
Personally I'm always for more options, so more decks are a good thing in my book. ^^
As for combo:
Ad Nauseam is still tier 2 and kicking.
Storm might not be, but that isn't the only spell-based combo there is.
And while Titanshift variants can still win with Titan beats and Emrakul, Ad Nauseam is as all in as you can get.
You draw your whole deck and if your control key says "no" when you cast Lightning Storm you're dead (N-not that that happened to me yesterday.. ^^; ).
While I'd like to see Storm or similar combos more often, there are decks you can play as a combo aficionado, even a creatureless one without a "turn your combo dudes sideways" backup plan. ;3
Standard infinite combos giving you a headache and the opponent always has Force of Will?
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This has always been the state of control in modern so if you don't like it you can play a different format tbh. Control has ALWAYS been in this spot since many counterspells and removal are pretty soft in modern. (twin was NOT a control deck so I don't count it) Nothing has really changed since wizards hasn't given control better hard removal/counterspell options (nor do I think they plan to anytime soon) Instead control is left to getting "charm type cards" with k-command/brutality and good planeswalkers like JVP/Nahiri. I don't have an issue with it since I do think that control should have to change it's 75 to be successful. I just think that we could use some better removal options/ways to close out games via printings through standard.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
And thats one of the things i think most people cant see when they run a tier 2 deck and they commonly ask for more sideboard slots. When I played zoo, it felt like 15 was never enough. I had too many things to hate. I play dredge now, which is it unfair? Yes, but I become super interactive post board.
Its a tier 1 deck, and alot of my hate is mainboard. 1 of darkblast for small aggro and mana dorks, conflag for midrange beaters and going wide strats, haunted dead, which blocks the going tall strats. Postboard: grudge for artifact strats and random stuff like bridges, decay for creature decks and combo peices, thought seize and collective brutality for combo spells, lightning axe for problem creatures, explosives for periminates.
Dredge isnt a tier 1 deck because how good its game 1 is (it helps) but because it basically tutors post sideboard and jund just has a crap ton of answer cards. Im confident no matter what deck goes up in tier, unless its processors, Ill still be tier one. Because of the pool of answer cards I have, and the sheer draw I get to get there with.
I always hated when people say modern is a sideboard format. Ita not true. In fact, you shouldnt be able to side against everything. Your deck shouldnt be able to beat everything or even have a fair match up against everything. That would be tier 0 and unhealthy. Eldrazi could beat everything. It evolved so its bad matchupa like burn or infect were good. Even a deck that goes 50 50 vs everthing isnt really good for the meta. Thats mostly spikes used to standard and dont like losing. Ive always hated this mostly because pros bring it up. Of course you want to win every game. Its your job.
I hope modern stays a format that rewards you for building a board correctly. That means its hella diverse, which I want. Some people love the one deck to beat... but thats standard, and thats fine. I just wish there were some more fair cards like commands so more decks could be tier 1 and eleviate some of the stress taken on boards BECAUSE of the lack of main board answers.
And I dont want it to be legacy where you basically have to run brainstorm to find said answer cards.
The format is better since its gone. More control decks will see play,,, when more cards are printed/unbanned. Look, some people didnt like twin but liked esper or the like. Those decks need power and that just wont happen with twin in the format, because twin will be just as good with it and invalidate it again.
I personally would love to see a Mono-w DnT strategy in tier 1. Kinda fills a control niche, while being creature based enough that wotc cant complain about it. I guess that LD that doesn't suck isn't in the spirit of the modern format though. The real problem with the deck is that it doesn't have the disruption to beat the real unfair decks, and it doesn't have the creature game to beat the dedicated fair decks in modern, aka goyf.
Death and Taxes
Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron
Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
But yes, its banning did highlight the underline issues with Modern, there's nothing really left now
to stop hyper linear strategies, and the new kid of the block ( Eldrazi ) bullies the decks that can still play the fair game.
In addition, I think a lot of people are finding Modern more enjoyable from a brewer's perspective is that
whatever they build doesn't have to worry about being combo out more reliably and with a tempo/control back up plan.