Madcap Experiment + Platinum Emperion is a combo from the new Kaladesh set. This combo seems like it has some good potential to be in modern since it's a one card combo so I figured we could brainstorm about it in this deck.
Support cards for our Experiment:
See Beyond: An okay draw spell that gets better because you can just shuffle the emperion back into your deck if you draw it.
Platinum Angel: Even though you would take tons of dmg from finding the angel, Infect has few outs to this card.
Blood Moon: One of the biggest drawbacks of Emperion is that he doesn't let you crack fetchlands. However Emperion is great with Blood moon because blood moon can turn off path to exile/Terminate mana which is very important to keep our robot friend alive. Curves into Experiment for nice effect as well.
Academy Ruins: If you Emperion dies and doesn't get pathed, we can buy it back with this land. You activate ruins then you crack a fetch so it gets shuffled back into your library. Doesn't take up much deck slots whatsoever and it's nice to get the emperion back into your deck.
Vendilion Clique: My favorite magic card ever is already good in many matchups but it also does wonders for your Emperion combo. If you happen to draw an Emperion, you can cast clique targeting yourself to get the Emperion back in your deck. Pretty nice that you can do this at instant speed.
Stubborn Denial: Can act as a 1 mana negate once we have emperion online. For this card to be great it demands that you play other 4 powered creatures as well(Tasigur/angler, Goyf, etc.)
Negate: Seems trivial but it's great as a maindeck card when you are playing emperion since all you need to worry about at this point is your opponent's removal.
Decks for our Experiment:
Storm: One of the few decks that can actually hard cast the emperion. Super good sideboard option against aggro decks.
Grixis Midrange: Despite the fact that Grixis is one of the best decks at grinding, it has ALWAYS struggled against aggro decks that are faster. Grixis has also had the issue of not having a consistent way of winning the game outside of Delver of secrets/delve threats. Our Emperion combo helps out Grixis's issues
Jeskai Nahiri: It sounds odd that this deck would want the combo but hear me out. The experiment combo in the sideboard to replace nahiri combo when it's bad seems very interesting.
Skred (Big Red): This one of the few decks that I listed that can actually hard cast Emperion if they actually draw it via Koth of the hammer. This card combo does wonders for this deck since it has historically had huge problems against combo. It's also playing 3-4 blood moon anyways.
Blue Moon/Boros Bridge decks: Blood moon style variants that wants a faster way to win. This combo helps in many ways.
Mardu Nahiri: Similar to Jeskai, Mardu can just play this combo in the side for matchups where our combo isn't great against.
Big Zoo: While big zoo has primarily became Knightfall decks, this is another unfair combo for a deck that wants to beat face anyways.
It's got several support cards for the Plan A of cheating out and swinging with two Emperions in the same game, such as these:
See Beyond: With 3 maindeck Emperions, one of them will inevitably get stuck in hand. Shuffle it back with this cheap virtual cantrip! It's also useful for shuffling away un-crackable fetchlands after cheating in an Emperion.
Eternal Witness: While useful for chaining together Madcap Experiments or turning Bring to Light into a resilient army, its hidden mode is to allow me to cheat in 4 Emperions in a single game if one of them dies. Simply return the dead Emperion to hand, then stuff it back in the deck with another support card, then cheat it out!
Glen Elendra Archmage: Because Spellskite can't be in this deck, this gal has to protect Emperion from removal. It's also good at hosing Ad Nauseam, Scapeshift, and big unfair noncreature cards. (Against Melira Company, I'd pop her to counter Collected Company.)
Whirler Rogue: In testing, this deck created board stalls like nobody's business, and this guy is great at breaking them in my favour.
10 mana dorks: Turn 3 Bring to Light is not Magical Christmas Land in this deck. With the help of these guys, I've even hardcast several Emperions. (...Yeah, some of them were after cheating out one Emperion.) Sylvan Caryatid helps with the sideboard and the hardcast plan more than Lotus Cobra would.
The support cards happen to be many-purpose: V. Clique strips removal and threats from opposing hands pretty well, Whirler Rogue turned out to be an all-star anti-aggro blocker in testing that swung midrange match-ups in my favour, Glen Elendra Archmage hoses combo in addition to removal, and more.
I've been testing it in Blue Moon. Blood Moon into Madcap is pretty crazy. I do feel like the only thing the deck is really missing is a reliable way to recycle it into the deck. I haven't tried out See Beyond but it's some interesting tech.
I've been testing it in Blue Moon. Blood Moon into Madcap is pretty crazy. I do feel like the only thing the deck is really missing is a reliable way to recycle it into the deck. I haven't tried out See Beyond but it's some interesting tech.
see beyond/clique should be enough
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
With the amount of cantrips in the deck drawing into Madcap Experiment is rather easy, Peer Through Depths is also useful here both to find the combo or a relevant removal/counterspell.
Currently testing a 3/2 split of Madcap/Emperion in my RUG Scapeshift Deck, has worked quite well so far. Will post further results once I'm finfished testing.
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Madcap Experiment + Platinum Emperion is a combo from the new Kaladesh set. This combo seems like it has some good potential to be in modern since it's a one card combo so I figured we could brainstorm about it in this deck.
Support cards for our Experiment:
Platinum Angel: Even though you would take tons of dmg from finding the angel, Infect literally has no outs to this card.
Actually, most Infect decks do have an out, as they generally play a 1-of Dismember maindeck. It does mean they have to draw that specific card, but they do have an out maindeck.
Interesting take. Thanks for sharing. Any way to get in a way/card for BC to have Haste? My only hesitancy is what happens if you only have 30 or less life on turn 4 and you cast Madcap and don't hit Blightsteel Colossus 25 to 30 cards down and you end up killing yourself without a Burrenton Forge Tender on the field? Seems too risky. Maybe 4x Intervention Pact so you have a total of 8 copies of damage prevention in you deck, upping the odds? Also Path is always strong but it lacks any synergy with SGM. Could Boros Charm take its place instead? It would also be able to give BC Doublestrike which should trample through enough poison from just about anything out there. Or maybe Sunlance? Just spitballing. Thanks for sharing. I'll keep an eye out for any changes you make.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
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Interesting take. Thanks for sharing. Any way to get in a way/card for BC to have Haste? My only hesitancy is what happens if you only have 30 or less life on turn 4 and you cast Madcap and don't hit Blightsteel Colossus 25 to 30 cards down and you end up killing yourself without a Burrenton Forge Tender on the field? Seems too risky. Maybe 4x Intervention Pact so you have a total of 8 copies of damage prevention in you deck, upping the odds? Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the feedback!
I suppose Hanweir Battlements could take the place of the ghost quarters. That would allow for haste w/out clearing away any of the other cards. Between Forgetender and Grand master there's actually 8 creatures that negate the damage from madcap. Admittedly they can both be picked off by removal but that's what we have Apostle's blessing for. The deck also has a lot of ways to gain life. An Earthquake on turn 3 if you have a grandmaster out is going to net you a bare minimum of 6 (assuming your opponent has a creature out, which they must or you wouldn't cast earthquake XD). I see this deck only going for it when you feel safe. Use Faithless looting to dig for your pieces and control the board w/ removal until you feel you are in a stable place to go for the combo. If you never feel safe, burning the opponent out or Reckoner beats are both very viable ways to kill the opponent. Intervention Pact is an interesting one, that could probably take the place of an earthquake
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Playing Madcap Experiment + Intervention Pact to prevent all of the damage and gain 35-40 life (assuming the Aetherflux Reservoir is on the bottom of your library which isn't too hard to do) then the Reservoir gets flipped into play and and you dome the opponent for 50. Crazy enough to work?
EDIT: As user descxz pointed out in another thread, Hallow also works for this.
Playing Madcap Experiment + Intervention Pact to prevent all of the damage and gain 35-40 life (assuming the Aetherflux Reservoir is on the bottom of your library which isn't too hard to do) then the Reservoir gets flipped into play and and you dome the opponent for 50. Crazy enough to work?
The problem with this approach is that it becomes a 2 card combo deck, where both card are ridiculous bad alone, and a 2 card combo that don't win on spot all times. The madcap + emperium don't win also, but it just a 'one card combo' that protects yourself to some degree.
With the amount of cantrips in the deck drawing into Madcap Experiment is rather easy, Peer Through Depths is also useful here both to find the combo or a relevant removal/counterspell.
This is very similar to where I ended up, except I think if you're going U/R control you want Blood Moon. There's so many decks where having 8 2-mana counters is a liability, and turn 3 Blood Moon -> turn 4 Emperion can ruin a lot of decks.
Has anyone tried out the Jeskai/Boros version running Blightsteel instead of Emperion? Any data on whether or not the combo actually works out in practice?
With the amount of cantrips in the deck drawing into Madcap Experiment is rather easy, Peer Through Depths is also useful here both to find the combo or a relevant removal/counterspell.
In my opinion it is not worth it to waste more card slots to set up Madcap Experiment and play another card which is useless on it's own like Congregation at Dawn which also requires splashing additional colors and a more painful manabase.
With the amount of cantrips in the deck drawing into Madcap Experiment is rather easy, Peer Through Depths is also useful here both to find the combo or a relevant removal/counterspell.
Trim some of the remands/leaks, and trim one cryptic. I would also recommend dismember/roast since flame slash needs help to take out big creatures. Your mana base could also use some adjustments.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
I'm curious how is this a 'combo'. Its a 4 mana 8/8. Which is great, but doesn't exactly win the game, which plenty of decks can do on that same turn.
It's a 4 mana 8/8 that means you can't lose the game versus most decks until its dealt with, and you're playing lots of cards that protect it. Significant difference.
Right, but its a combo you're sort of building a deck around. I mean granted, not entirely, but still. Twin was so strong because it won the game on the spot. This just gives you an out to damage-based decks with a huge "Path/Terminate/Ancient Grudge Me" sticky note on it. I don't think it's strong enough to be playable as a mainboard strategy, but instead should be a 5 card sideboard option that slots into Red decks that reach 4 mana easily. It hoses Affinity and Suicide Zoo and all that, but its just not a strong enough plan to be worth building around as a mainboard strategy in a world where Affinity and Infect and Jund and Junk and Jeskai Nahiri and a million other decks have tons of outs to it. Hell, Merfolk wins against this with a Vapor Snag.
How about using Not of this World to protect Emperion once it's cheated out?
I'm thinking the 'combo' could fit in skred or ponza, but I share the concern that Emperion is too easy to remove.
How about using Not of this World to protect Emperion once it's cheated out?
I'm thinking the 'combo' could fit in skred or ponza, but I share the concern that Emperion is too easy to remove.
NoTW does an amazing job protecting Merit Lage in legacy, but Merit almost always immediately ends the game. If emperion had trample or flying or something that prevented chumping I would say there is something here. As people said, an 8/8 that prevents you from losing the game 9 times out of 10 is great, but it needs to end the game.
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Current Decks
Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Legacy
GBDark DepthsBG
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Support cards for our Experiment:
See Beyond: An okay draw spell that gets better because you can just shuffle the emperion back into your deck if you draw it.
Platinum Angel: Even though you would take tons of dmg from finding the angel, Infect has few outs to this card.
Blood Moon: One of the biggest drawbacks of Emperion is that he doesn't let you crack fetchlands. However Emperion is great with Blood moon because blood moon can turn off path to exile/Terminate mana which is very important to keep our robot friend alive. Curves into Experiment for nice effect as well.
Academy Ruins: If you Emperion dies and doesn't get pathed, we can buy it back with this land. You activate ruins then you crack a fetch so it gets shuffled back into your library. Doesn't take up much deck slots whatsoever and it's nice to get the emperion back into your deck.
Vendilion Clique: My favorite magic card ever is already good in many matchups but it also does wonders for your Emperion combo. If you happen to draw an Emperion, you can cast clique targeting yourself to get the Emperion back in your deck. Pretty nice that you can do this at instant speed.
Gaea's Blessing/Memory's Journey/Emrakul, the Aeons Torn: Not the sexiest of cards but both are okay ways to get your emperions back in your deck if they die to removal not named path.
Stubborn Denial: Can act as a 1 mana negate once we have emperion online. For this card to be great it demands that you play other 4 powered creatures as well(Tasigur/angler, Goyf, etc.)
Negate: Seems trivial but it's great as a maindeck card when you are playing emperion since all you need to worry about at this point is your opponent's removal.
Decks for our Experiment:
Storm: One of the few decks that can actually hard cast the emperion. Super good sideboard option against aggro decks.
Grixis Midrange: Despite the fact that Grixis is one of the best decks at grinding, it has ALWAYS struggled against aggro decks that are faster. Grixis has also had the issue of not having a consistent way of winning the game outside of Delver of secrets/delve threats. Our Emperion combo helps out Grixis's issues
Jeskai Nahiri: It sounds odd that this deck would want the combo but hear me out. The experiment combo in the sideboard to replace nahiri combo when it's bad seems very interesting.
Skred (Big Red): This one of the few decks that I listed that can actually hard cast Emperion if they actually draw it via Koth of the hammer. This card combo does wonders for this deck since it has historically had huge problems against combo. It's also playing 3-4 blood moon anyways.
Blue Moon/Boros Bridge decks: Blood moon style variants that wants a faster way to win. This combo helps in many ways.
Mardu Nahiri: Similar to Jeskai, Mardu can just play this combo in the side for matchups where our combo isn't great against.
Big Zoo: While big zoo has primarily became Knightfall decks, this is another unfair combo for a deck that wants to beat face anyways.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
2 Botanical Sanctum
1 Flooded Grove
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Lumbering Falls
1 Gavony Township
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Platinum Emperion
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Whirler Rogue
1 Qasali Pridemage
Spells
4 Madcap Experiment
4 Bring to Light
2 See Beyond
2 Path to Exile
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Fiery Justice
1 Slaughter Games
1 Shatterstorm
1 Nature's Claim
1 Stony Silence
1 Negate
It's got several support cards for the Plan A of cheating out and swinging with two Emperions in the same game, such as these:
I have further details in http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/757479-8-madcap-emperions.
see beyond/clique should be enough
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
4 Lightning Helix
4 Soulfire Grand master
4 Burrenton Forge-tender
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Earthquake
4 Madcap Experiment
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 path to exile
3 Apostle’s Blessing
4 Faithless Looting
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Arid Mesa
2 Needle Spires
2 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Ghost Quarter
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Platinum Emperion
Instant (19)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Mana Leak
4x Remand
3x Cryptic Command
2x Peer Through Depths
1x Izzet Charm
Sorcery (12)
4x Serum Visions
4x Madcap Experiment
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Flame Slash
1x Flooded Strand
3x Island
2x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Spirebluff Canal
4x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
2x Wandering Fumarole
1x Electrolyze
3x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Keranos, God of Storms
2x Negate
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Pyroclasm
2x Roast
2x Spell Snare
With the amount of cantrips in the deck drawing into Madcap Experiment is rather easy, Peer Through Depths is also useful here both to find the combo or a relevant removal/counterspell.
The main problem with the combo is that Platinum Emperion is rather easily removed
(Path to Exile, Terminate, Kolaghan's Command, Maelstrom Pulse, Liliana/Nahiri and even Vapor Snag/Cryptic Command)
which means that tapping out for it without counter backup is rather risky, it also picks up all the affinity-hate
(Ancient Grudge, Nature's Claim, Destructive Revelry, Wear // Tear, Qasali Pridemage, Reclamation Sage, Shatterstorm)
post-board making it virtually impossible to make it stick on board long enough to win so I usually side out the combo and go for a midrange approach post-board.
Interesting take. Thanks for sharing. Any way to get in a way/card for BC to have Haste? My only hesitancy is what happens if you only have 30 or less life on turn 4 and you cast Madcap and don't hit Blightsteel Colossus 25 to 30 cards down and you end up killing yourself without a Burrenton Forge Tender on the field? Seems too risky. Maybe 4x Intervention Pact so you have a total of 8 copies of damage prevention in you deck, upping the odds? Also Path is always strong but it lacks any synergy with SGM. Could Boros Charm take its place instead? It would also be able to give BC Doublestrike which should trample through enough poison from just about anything out there. Or maybe Sunlance? Just spitballing. Thanks for sharing. I'll keep an eye out for any changes you make.
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Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Thanks for the feedback!
I suppose Hanweir Battlements could take the place of the ghost quarters. That would allow for haste w/out clearing away any of the other cards. Between Forgetender and Grand master there's actually 8 creatures that negate the damage from madcap. Admittedly they can both be picked off by removal but that's what we have Apostle's blessing for. The deck also has a lot of ways to gain life. An Earthquake on turn 3 if you have a grandmaster out is going to net you a bare minimum of 6 (assuming your opponent has a creature out, which they must or you wouldn't cast earthquake XD). I see this deck only going for it when you feel safe. Use Faithless looting to dig for your pieces and control the board w/ removal until you feel you are in a stable place to go for the combo. If you never feel safe, burning the opponent out or Reckoner beats are both very viable ways to kill the opponent. Intervention Pact is an interesting one, that could probably take the place of an earthquake
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
EDIT: As user descxz pointed out in another thread, Hallow also works for this.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
This is very similar to where I ended up, except I think if you're going U/R control you want Blood Moon. There's so many decks where having 8 2-mana counters is a liability, and turn 3 Blood Moon -> turn 4 Emperion can ruin a lot of decks.
Has anyone tried out the Jeskai/Boros version running Blightsteel instead of Emperion? Any data on whether or not the combo actually works out in practice?
Needs more blood moon IMHO
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Trim some of the remands/leaks, and trim one cryptic. I would also recommend dismember/roast since flame slash needs help to take out big creatures. Your mana base could also use some adjustments.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Right, but its a combo you're sort of building a deck around. I mean granted, not entirely, but still. Twin was so strong because it won the game on the spot. This just gives you an out to damage-based decks with a huge "Path/Terminate/Ancient Grudge Me" sticky note on it. I don't think it's strong enough to be playable as a mainboard strategy, but instead should be a 5 card sideboard option that slots into Red decks that reach 4 mana easily. It hoses Affinity and Suicide Zoo and all that, but its just not a strong enough plan to be worth building around as a mainboard strategy in a world where Affinity and Infect and Jund and Junk and Jeskai Nahiri and a million other decks have tons of outs to it. Hell, Merfolk wins against this with a Vapor Snag.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
I'm thinking the 'combo' could fit in skred or ponza, but I share the concern that Emperion is too easy to remove.
NoTW does an amazing job protecting Merit Lage in legacy, but Merit almost always immediately ends the game. If emperion had trample or flying or something that prevented chumping I would say there is something here. As people said, an 8/8 that prevents you from losing the game 9 times out of 10 is great, but it needs to end the game.