Like just about any card, he will see fringe play. He is not seeing play in any consistently successful Tier 1 or 2 deck, and doesn't see play in most Tier 3 decks. His effect requires a lot of setup for relatively little payoff. Even if you get him to a PW (which is not a guarantee), his +1 does little against either a large creature or a wide field of small creatures. His -3 can only be used once before needing to +1 again, and works horribly with countermagic. His ultimate is something you will likely never get to because his -3 is so much better than his +1. And worst of all, he does nothing the turn he lands. If all you want is a Merfolk Looter with upside, he's probably great. If you absolutely want his PW side, there are much better things you can be spending your resources on.
5 cards in your graveyard is not "alot of setup."
Living through a turn (or several) is part of that. Plus, if I'm putting cards in my GY, I'd much rather have a 1 mana 4/5 with upside than an 0/2 that may or may not do anything and dies to a light sneeze. There is a reason Jace is seeing virtually no play.
You can't play a 2 mana do nothing spell and see if he will actually loot. He doesn't have a place in modern until the meta stops being very 1-2 mana heavy. Everything is super aggro, and that is not what jace needs. Jace is better in the legacy and vintage, and that is already saying a lot. He is at min. 1 copy in a vintage deck and max. 2 copies in the legacy deck. He doesn't do what you need to do in the modern environment the way it is right now. Nahiri just happens to be better because you aren't using your 2 CMC slot to waste it on a do nothing spell. It isn't about playing it after playing 5 cards, the problem is playing the card itself after 5 cards. You can't freely do that when you are saying just hold him up after playing a few spells, but you might not even be able to do that.
If the meta slowed down to a more mid-range-control style like splinter twin, jace might see more play. But the jund, aggro gruul lists, and abzan aggro lists doesn't allow jace to cut it as a t2 play, but as t4-5 play. The pipe dream is that he lives after playing him, and hopefully he gets to flip.
To answer op's question, Jace is pretty similar in powerlevel to dark confidant tbh. Both die to a small breeze (well jace doesn't if you are allowed to untap with it), both produce card adv each turn, both win the game by themselves if left unchecked. Both also work very well with each other and Liliana of the veil. The best strats at using him are: UW control lists that run Ojutai's command, grixis with kolaghan's command/Liliana, the last hope, Sultai lists, etc. He's a card that you have to brew with to find some success. If you understand that he isn't great as a 3-4 of right now and can find a home for him, he can take over games by himself everytime.
It would be pretty impossible to win a game of Magic with just one Dark Confidant.
What are you saying? Confidant can win the game on it's own by not dying since it gives you so many more cards than your opponent. Similarly, Jace can do the same. Jace is a blue midrange card and should be played in Esper/Grixis/Sultai/UW(r) midrange decks. To play it with nahiri, the UWR deck has to play like a midrange deck and not a control deck. Jace = blue confidant.
If Dark Confidant won the game on its own that means you didn't use any other cards. The extra cards you drew from it are irrelevant.
This thought process makes no sense whatsoever. Does ancestral vision not win games because it nets you 3 cards and puts the game out of reach when you are that ahead? It's the same logic.
I'm referring to the fact that you said it "wins games on its own". It doesn't. Ever. It draws you cards that you use to win the game. All these cards are used together. Dark Confidant didn't do it alone.
YOu act as though I need the approval of whoever is in whatever thread you are talking about to evaluate and test a card for myself. Believe me I have tested Jace thoroughly in places you have never even considered (8rack). The card is solid. He's a tanky value walker that ends the game if it goes long. Nahiri ends the game rather quickly but you can't put all your eggs in one basket. If you do that 1 pithing needle and you cant win the game. Now I'm not suggesting you use him as a 4x in every case. I'm saying 1+ copies probably makes a lot of sense in a U/R/X shell.
And are you now maindecking JVP in your 8rack build?
In one variant yes.
That's great. I can't wait to see it appear in the T8s.
Not sure if this was meant as sarcasm, but there actually was a T8 finish for 8Rack last weekend by Tom Ross.
We're in a thread discussing JVP. You said you're using JVP in 8rack, a deck i'm only too familiar with. I find it incredulous, and there are no results put up for it. But I believe in innovation and experimentation, and I'm no stranger to being lambasted for playing experimental cards in old archetypes. So I didn't want to be the wet blanket. Tom Ross's bridgeless 8rack top8 was cool, but irrelevant to our conversation.
It wasn't pure sarcasm - I *doubt* you will be putting up top 8s with JVP in 8rack, I'm not even sure if you would bring this to FNM over your usual mono B build. But I'm not you, and if you can prove JVP-8rack worthy, I'll be there giving you genuine applause.
Until then, one's experimental brews with JVP is not a powerful argument to use here defending JVP in modern. It defies all known data sources from MTGO to MTGTOP8 and it defies every modern players' (even your's) knowledge of the meta.
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
And are you now maindecking JVP in your 8rack build?
In one variant yes.
That's great. I can't wait to see it appear in the T8s.
Not sure if this was meant as sarcasm, but there actually was a T8 finish for 8Rack last weekend by Tom Ross.
We're in a thread discussing JVP. You said you're using JVP in 8rack, a deck i'm only too familiar with. I find it incredulous, and there are no results put up for it. But I believe in innovation and experimentation, and I'm no stranger to being lambasted for playing experimental cards in old archetypes. So I didn't want to be the wet blanket. Tom Ross's bridgeless 8rack top8 was cool, but irrelevant to our conversation.
It wasn't pure sarcasm - I *doubt* you will be putting up top 8s with JVP in 8rack, I'm not even sure if you would bring this to FNM over your usual mono B build. But I'm not you, and if you can prove JVP-8rack worthy, I'll be there giving you genuine applause.
Until then, one's experimental brews with JVP is not a powerful argument to use here defending JVP in modern. It defies all known data sources from MTGO to MTGTOP8 and it defies every modern players' (even your's) knowledge of the meta.
I'd say Jace in the Bridge version of 8Rack is the ONLY compelling reason to play Bridge currently.
I have not been using or recommending Bridge for a long time now. We are past needing it maindeck, there are other options.
Jace was good when Grixis was good, and he'll be good again if Grixis makes a comeback. Right now there's no tier 1 deck that wants him, but he's still a good card.
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UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
If the meta slowed down to a more mid-range-control style like splinter twin, jace might see more play. But the jund, aggro gruul lists, and abzan aggro lists doesn't allow jace to cut it as a t2 play, but as t4-5 play. The pipe dream is that he lives after playing him, and hopefully he gets to flip.
I'm referring to the fact that you said it "wins games on its own". It doesn't. Ever. It draws you cards that you use to win the game. All these cards are used together. Dark Confidant didn't do it alone.
We're in a thread discussing JVP. You said you're using JVP in 8rack, a deck i'm only too familiar with. I find it incredulous, and there are no results put up for it. But I believe in innovation and experimentation, and I'm no stranger to being lambasted for playing experimental cards in old archetypes. So I didn't want to be the wet blanket. Tom Ross's bridgeless 8rack top8 was cool, but irrelevant to our conversation.
It wasn't pure sarcasm - I *doubt* you will be putting up top 8s with JVP in 8rack, I'm not even sure if you would bring this to FNM over your usual mono B build. But I'm not you, and if you can prove JVP-8rack worthy, I'll be there giving you genuine applause.
Until then, one's experimental brews with JVP is not a powerful argument to use here defending JVP in modern. It defies all known data sources from MTGO to MTGTOP8 and it defies every modern players' (even your's) knowledge of the meta.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
I have not been using or recommending Bridge for a long time now. We are past needing it maindeck, there are other options.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/479946#online
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/480955#online
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/468953#online
All of them grixis midrange/control.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past