I like Modern, mostly because most of my cards (99% of them) are Modern legal. I love milling (I'm a bit of a Johnny in that regard... okay, a lot) and build most of causal decks on that archetype. One thing I've noticed when net decking is that my favorite mill card, Szadek, Lord of Secrets does not make many lists, if at all. Why is this? Sure, he's expensive, but he's a flyer with geometric mill effects. Just attach Strands of Undeath to him and it's all over in just a few turns.
So what's his deal? Is the mana cost too high? It it too much effort to get him stay on the board when there are more other ways to get the job done? Are there better cards?
I appreciate the feedback.
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Favorite flavor text, -Last Gasp
He is too expensive for Modern. By the time you get to 7 mana (especially when playing Mill) you should have either won or your opponent has probably won. Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker is probably better since he comes down sooner and potentially mills more and Mirko Vosk isn't any good. Strands of Undeath isn't any good for this archetype either.
If you look at Mill lists, almost all top out at 3 mana with Mind Funeral (except Archive Trap but the intent is to cast it for free). This is because Mill plays similarly to Burn. Keep hammering away at a player's library as fast as possible before they can do anything. Szadek gives the opponent way too much time to win and he still needs to deal damage in combat to do anything.
Glimpse the Unthinkable is the same as the second swing with Szadek and it happens 7 turns earlier. Breaking, from Breaking // Entering, is better than Szadek's first attack and happens 6 turns earlier.
So if I understand what you're saying, his big problem is that he's slow, right? If that's the case, would I be better off going with my plan B which is loading up on Hedron Crabs followed by a big hitter like Vosk and supplemented by mill sorceries and instants?
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Favorite flavor text, -Last Gasp
If you look at the modern coveredge some of the decks kill on turn 4. Burn, Deathshadow Zoo, Afinity all of these kill by turn 4 often, with infect capabol of killing on turn 2. I do not know how fast a milldeck can winn, but I think turn 4 or 5 is not unreasonable. So why would you make your deck worse by adding a card that will never ever come into play.
Also, he is not that impressive as a card. You pay 7 mana and play him. Your oponent pays 1 mana for a path to exile, a dismember or something else to kill him.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
So if I understand what you're saying, his big problem is that he's slow, right? If that's the case, would I be better off going with my plan B which is loading up on Hedron Crabs followed by a big hitter like Vosk and supplemented by mill sorceries and instants?
I do not think you have much experience in modern and this is your 3rd post. In witch case I would like to welcome you to one of the best formats in magic of all time.
With that being said I would like to show you the lay of the land before you start turning up to a tournament. Here is a sample mill deck:
I would leave out Mirko Vosk entirely (unless you need him for budget reasons to replace something like Glimpse the Unthinkable). Mirko Vosk is just too slow as well. If you need more mill cards, and need budget options, Tome Scour or Mind Sculpt are workable. They aren't the best options, but they are better than Mirko Vosk.
Hedron Crabs and fetchlands play well together and even without fetchlands, Hedron Crabs turn all your land drops into mill 2 (or mill 4 or mill 6 with multiples). You can even run budget fetches, like Evolving Wilds to help get more landfall triggers.
Mill doesn't really want, or need, a big hitter. Dealing damage to a player is antithetical to what the deck wants. Most decks are trying to deal 20 damage. Infect wants to deal 10 (poison counters) and you want to deal 45 or so (the library). Everything you do should be based on getting those remainng 45 cards in the graveyard. Mirko does do that, but if he is chumped, you have spent 5 mana and a turn to do nothing.
You're right that I don't have much experience. Rest assured, I have no aspirations for the tourney play for at least a year or so. For one, it's going to take me about that long to buy the deck that I need (your link was over $700. Whew!), and two, I'm really inexperienced. I'll build some stuff and test it online, find out what works and what doesn't work. Thanks, again.
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"Allow me a moment to catch your breath."
Favorite flavor text, -Last Gasp
Another idea I've seen for a budget mill deck is to use Brain in a Jar with Breaking // Entering. Because brain casts it from your hand, you can cast it on two counters but get both halves. Combined with some other mill cards, you can get good value and steal some creatures to stay alive.
How do you feel about pairing the Crabs with bounce lands?
It is certainly a "cute" interaction and could be useful. I think I have seen someone use those online.
The main strike against them is that you don't want them early. Once you have 3 mana, and at least 1 crab on the field, they are decent, but if you start the game with a Ghost Quarter (a common card in mill lists) and a bounce land, you have no colored mana until turn 3 which is slow and it would require you not bounce the land. I personally think their potential drawback makes them not north including.
At this point, he seems more like an EDH commander for a mill deck than anything else. Thanks for the input.
I agree though Phenax, God of Deception is way better. Phenax turns all your creatures into mill and when I played with Mirko Vosk in an Oona, Queen of the Fae list, he almost never connected because he can be chumped easily.
When a stretegy is fringe the key cards often cheap. When the cards start to do well in tournaments they will go up in price because of more public demand. If it is a really big tournamnt the prices can increase over night.
a good example was the eldrazi deck that was super cheap to get both on magic online and IRL even though it was good. Then the Pro-tour came and eldrazi was everywhere and prices spiked. After the bannings the prices halved. This means that if you want to play a budget deck that is stil good you can not play a meta established deck. Even the decklist I showed you has gone up in price after it was featured as undefeated day one at a pro-tour.
With that being said, good mill cards are always in high demand because so many cassual player like them. Therefor, they are rarly under 5$.
Safron Olive has often also played the decks so you can see how they perform on youtube.
A deck that is VERY good right now and is not seing a lot of play or cost is UW spirits. You can build this in manyways, but the best way seems to be adding green to the deck for collected company. That card will rotate out of standard in 2 months and I expect we see a drop in price. Use som bird of paradise for mana axceleration and you have a good cheap deck.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
I like Modern, mostly because most of my cards (99% of them) are Modern legal. I love milling (I'm a bit of a Johnny in that regard... okay, a lot) and build most of causal decks on that archetype. One thing I've noticed when net decking is that my favorite mill card, Szadek, Lord of Secrets does not make many lists, if at all. Why is this? Sure, he's expensive, but he's a flyer with geometric mill effects. Just attach Strands of Undeath to him and it's all over in just a few turns.
So what's his deal? Is the mana cost too high? It it too much effort to get him stay on the board when there are more other ways to get the job done? Are there better cards?
I appreciate the feedback.
Why play him over any other 6 drop creature if that's your plan? Your combo sets you up to get pathed and lose the game.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
If you want to actually win games with a similar style of deck you should switch to Burn, counting to 20 (often 18 or less because of fetch/shock damage) is a lot easier than 60.
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So what's his deal? Is the mana cost too high? It it too much effort to get him stay on the board when there are more other ways to get the job done? Are there better cards?
I appreciate the feedback.
Favorite flavor text, -Last Gasp
If you look at Mill lists, almost all top out at 3 mana with Mind Funeral (except Archive Trap but the intent is to cast it for free). This is because Mill plays similarly to Burn. Keep hammering away at a player's library as fast as possible before they can do anything. Szadek gives the opponent way too much time to win and he still needs to deal damage in combat to do anything.
Glimpse the Unthinkable is the same as the second swing with Szadek and it happens 7 turns earlier. Breaking, from Breaking // Entering, is better than Szadek's first attack and happens 6 turns earlier.
Favorite flavor text, -Last Gasp
Also, he is not that impressive as a card. You pay 7 mana and play him. Your oponent pays 1 mana for a path to exile, a dismember or something else to kill him.
Favorite flavor text, -Last Gasp
I do not think you have much experience in modern and this is your 3rd post. In witch case I would like to welcome you to one of the best formats in magic of all time.
With that being said I would like to show you the lay of the land before you start turning up to a tournament. Here is a sample mill deck:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-u-b-mill-27703#paper
And here you can see it in action. Please consider this when you put in your 7 mana mill card.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91DhIO9W1mU
Hedron Crabs and fetchlands play well together and even without fetchlands, Hedron Crabs turn all your land drops into mill 2 (or mill 4 or mill 6 with multiples). You can even run budget fetches, like Evolving Wilds to help get more landfall triggers.
Mill doesn't really want, or need, a big hitter. Dealing damage to a player is antithetical to what the deck wants. Most decks are trying to deal 20 damage. Infect wants to deal 10 (poison counters) and you want to deal 45 or so (the library). Everything you do should be based on getting those remainng 45 cards in the graveyard. Mirko does do that, but if he is chumped, you have spent 5 mana and a turn to do nothing.
Favorite flavor text, -Last Gasp
Favorite flavor text, -Last Gasp
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The main strike against them is that you don't want them early. Once you have 3 mana, and at least 1 crab on the field, they are decent, but if you start the game with a Ghost Quarter (a common card in mill lists) and a bounce land, you have no colored mana until turn 3 which is slow and it would require you not bounce the land. I personally think their potential drawback makes them not north including.
In any mill deck, you probably want Surgical Extraction or Extirpate to deal with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (now that Nahiri decks are running around). I prefer Surgical since it can be cast for "free".
a good example was the eldrazi deck that was super cheap to get both on magic online and IRL even though it was good. Then the Pro-tour came and eldrazi was everywhere and prices spiked. After the bannings the prices halved. This means that if you want to play a budget deck that is stil good you can not play a meta established deck. Even the decklist I showed you has gone up in price after it was featured as undefeated day one at a pro-tour.
With that being said, good mill cards are always in high demand because so many cassual player like them. Therefor, they are rarly under 5$.
Mtggolfish has some funn budget decks, although the older a list is chances are they are not budget anymore. (Link here: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/decks/budget/modern#paper (
Safron Olive has often also played the decks so you can see how they perform on youtube.
A deck that is VERY good right now and is not seing a lot of play or cost is UW spirits. You can build this in manyways, but the best way seems to be adding green to the deck for collected company. That card will rotate out of standard in 2 months and I expect we see a drop in price. Use som bird of paradise for mana axceleration and you have a good cheap deck.
Why play him over any other 6 drop creature if that's your plan? Your combo sets you up to get pathed and lose the game.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)