Rest in peace is unreliable for beating dredge on its own, and it's far too costly to run a full playset of them.
The other answers available to stop dredge, namely ensnaring bridge, lose to the ancient grudges that they WILL bring in. Without anger of the gods, beating dredge is actually extremely difficult for RW lockdown. I've played both decks (modern dredge less extensively, but I have multiple top 32 finishes at GP's with legacy and extended dredge), and I really wouldn't bet money on lockdown even winning any games against dredge without anger of the gods.
Like others have said--it's not that RW lockdown isn't good against the metagame in team unified modern (it's actually a really solid deck because the field is narrower than a typical modern event), but because it eats too many critical resources. The deck either has to take both wrath of god and anger of the gods, or it has to take both path and bolt. Either way, it also takes stony silence, leyline of sanctity, rest in peace, and sacred foundry, which means the OTHER white deck is mostly gutted by default, basically only leaving path to exile available, and also potentially the other red deck is gutted by not having bolt.
It's like I pointed out in my analysis earlier--there are two good removal spells: path to exile and lightning bolt. IF you don't split them up, then the deck playing both of them HAS to be able to beat all of the linear decks--because none of your other decks are going to have a better shot than racing. This means pretty much only UWR or naya burn exist as reasonable RW choice, and UWR can't reasonably beat dredge, so the best option becomes to split your paths and bolts or to play burn. If you look at the breakdown, virtually every team either split path and bolt, or played jeskai or burn. Jeskai didn't do so hot. Burn did marginally better.
So Rest in Peace is too costly but Anger isn't? rofl this format attracts easy marks imo, where do I sign up?
Rest in peace is narrow in application--anger of the gods is not. losing anger is a bigger deal than losing rest in peace, but overall it's more a comment on the available white sideboard cards: RW lockdown has to have the angers and the wraths, so it makes little sense to have a different white deck as well.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Rest in peace is narrow in application--anger of the gods is not. losing anger is a bigger deal than losing rest in peace, but overall it's more a comment on the available white sideboard cards: RW lockdown has to have the angers and the wraths, so it makes little sense to have a different white deck as well.
Meh if you cant see the advantages of what I'm suggesting then we really can't proceed. Seems to me that this type of meta could be abused easily, so that's what I would do.
Rest in peace is unreliable for beating dredge on its own, and it's far too costly to run a full playset of them.
The other answers available to stop dredge, namely ensnaring bridge, lose to the ancient grudges that they WILL bring in. Without anger of the gods, beating dredge is actually extremely difficult for RW lockdown. I've played both decks (modern dredge less extensively, but I have multiple top 32 finishes at GP's with legacy and extended dredge), and I really wouldn't bet money on lockdown even winning any games against dredge without anger of the gods.
Like others have said--it's not that RW lockdown isn't good against the metagame in team unified modern (it's actually a really solid deck because the field is narrower than a typical modern event), but because it eats too many critical resources. The deck either has to take both wrath of god and anger of the gods, or it has to take both path and bolt. Either way, it also takes stony silence, leyline of sanctity, rest in peace, and sacred foundry, which means the OTHER white deck is mostly gutted by default, basically only leaving path to exile available, and also potentially the other red deck is gutted by not having bolt.
It's like I pointed out in my analysis earlier--there are two good removal spells: path to exile and lightning bolt. IF you don't split them up, then the deck playing both of them HAS to be able to beat all of the linear decks--because none of your other decks are going to have a better shot than racing. This means pretty much only UWR or naya burn exist as reasonable RW choice, and UWR can't reasonably beat dredge, so the best option becomes to split your paths and bolts or to play burn. If you look at the breakdown, virtually every team either split path and bolt, or played jeskai or burn. Jeskai didn't do so hot. Burn did marginally better.
So Rest in Peace is too costly but Anger isn't? rofl this format attracts easy marks imo, where do I sign up?
He said it's too costly to run a playset of them. That doesn't mean mana cost, it means opportunity cost in losing sideboard space.
Rest in peace is unreliable for beating dredge on its own, and it's far too costly to run a full playset of them.
The other answers available to stop dredge, namely ensnaring bridge, lose to the ancient grudges that they WILL bring in. Without anger of the gods, beating dredge is actually extremely difficult for RW lockdown. I've played both decks (modern dredge less extensively, but I have multiple top 32 finishes at GP's with legacy and extended dredge), and I really wouldn't bet money on lockdown even winning any games against dredge without anger of the gods.
Like others have said--it's not that RW lockdown isn't good against the metagame in team unified modern (it's actually a really solid deck because the field is narrower than a typical modern event), but because it eats too many critical resources. The deck either has to take both wrath of god and anger of the gods, or it has to take both path and bolt. Either way, it also takes stony silence, leyline of sanctity, rest in peace, and sacred foundry, which means the OTHER white deck is mostly gutted by default, basically only leaving path to exile available, and also potentially the other red deck is gutted by not having bolt.
It's like I pointed out in my analysis earlier--there are two good removal spells: path to exile and lightning bolt. IF you don't split them up, then the deck playing both of them HAS to be able to beat all of the linear decks--because none of your other decks are going to have a better shot than racing. This means pretty much only UWR or naya burn exist as reasonable RW choice, and UWR can't reasonably beat dredge, so the best option becomes to split your paths and bolts or to play burn. If you look at the breakdown, virtually every team either split path and bolt, or played jeskai or burn. Jeskai didn't do so hot. Burn did marginally better.
So Rest in Peace is too costly but Anger isn't? rofl this format attracts easy marks imo, where do I sign up?
He said it's too costly to run a playset of them. That doesn't mean mana cost, it means opportunity cost in losing sideboard space.
Look Rest In Peace is wayyyy better than Anger vs Dredge. It's lower CC, it deals with the current graveyard and the future graveyard. Dredge cannot operate with RiP in play, period. There is no opportunity loss in using it. RiP is the be all end all only card you will ever need against graveyard strats in modern. The only reason not to have it in your 75 with a dredge meta is because you are not playing white.
Rest in peace is unreliable for beating dredge on its own, and it's far too costly to run a full playset of them.
The other answers available to stop dredge, namely ensnaring bridge, lose to the ancient grudges that they WILL bring in. Without anger of the gods, beating dredge is actually extremely difficult for RW lockdown. I've played both decks (modern dredge less extensively, but I have multiple top 32 finishes at GP's with legacy and extended dredge), and I really wouldn't bet money on lockdown even winning any games against dredge without anger of the gods.
Like others have said--it's not that RW lockdown isn't good against the metagame in team unified modern (it's actually a really solid deck because the field is narrower than a typical modern event), but because it eats too many critical resources. The deck either has to take both wrath of god and anger of the gods, or it has to take both path and bolt. Either way, it also takes stony silence, leyline of sanctity, rest in peace, and sacred foundry, which means the OTHER white deck is mostly gutted by default, basically only leaving path to exile available, and also potentially the other red deck is gutted by not having bolt.
It's like I pointed out in my analysis earlier--there are two good removal spells: path to exile and lightning bolt. IF you don't split them up, then the deck playing both of them HAS to be able to beat all of the linear decks--because none of your other decks are going to have a better shot than racing. This means pretty much only UWR or naya burn exist as reasonable RW choice, and UWR can't reasonably beat dredge, so the best option becomes to split your paths and bolts or to play burn. If you look at the breakdown, virtually every team either split path and bolt, or played jeskai or burn. Jeskai didn't do so hot. Burn did marginally better.
So Rest in Peace is too costly but Anger isn't? rofl this format attracts easy marks imo, where do I sign up?
He said it's too costly to run a playset of them. That doesn't mean mana cost, it means opportunity cost in losing sideboard space.
Look Rest In Peace is wayyyy better than Anger vs Dredge. It's lower CC, it deals with the current graveyard and the future graveyard. Dredge cannot operate with RiP in play, period. There is no opportunity loss in using it. RiP is the be all end all only card you will ever need against graveyard strats in modern. The only reason not to have it in your 75 with a dredge meta is because you are not playing white.
I'm not taking sides here, just trying to clarify.
Sure, a RW based control deck will always have a good match-up vs most aggressive decks due to the nature of the colours (lots of removal). However, what you always forget is, what playing a RW Control deck means for the OTHER decks in your team.
As long as you do not run the Chalice version (which I personally do not like so much), you want Bolt/Paths in your list, which takes the best removal away from the card pool. This means, that your other decks are forced to run more linear/aggressive decks since they cannot properly build a interactive deck.
When you are running the Chalice version, you are skipping on Path and Bolts but at the same time you make your aggro match-up worse because of this, since your removal comes online later and your are more reliant on sweeper effects. Since you NEED those sweepers and especially Anger of the Gods (best modern legal 3 mana sweeper) results, that Anger, a card many fair decks want to play multiple copies, is not available for your other decks. Yes, the other fair deck(s) you would run have access to Bolt/Path, which makes this problem not that bad, but it is still a problem.
Next are the SB cards. W has the best sideboard cards in Modern (not even close). However, since the RW Chalice Control decks want stuff like RiP, Stony Silence and from time to time Leyline/Kor Firewalker it becomes harder to justify running a W based interactive deck along RW Control EVEN THOUGH you have access to Path.
Sure, you can run Jund alongside RW Chalice Control (Jund need Bolts) but at the same time, Jund needs Anger of the Gods vs multiple match-ups which again, hurts the RW Chalice version. When you want to run Junk instead (cause Path is open) you do not have access to the SB cards you really want and if you run Jeskai along it, you cannot run the Nahiri version, since RW Control needs Nahiri more than anything else.
In the meantime you have to ask yourself, if the other decks along RW Control are good in this specific meta, cause being able to run them along RW Control and being an actual good choice is a very important difference.
So, tl,dr: RW Control would be a good pick, but the opportunity costs and the effects on the other team decks might result, that it is not a go to pick per se.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
@Kathal you are over thinking it x1000. Look its gonna be an aggro dredgy meta and RW lockdown gets it done. It need not make more sense than that. Seems like we are splitting hairs though. You admit its a good choice just might not be a "go to" choice. So that's probably as close to an agreement as one can find in this God forsaken place.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Sure, a RW based control deck will always have a good match-up vs most aggressive decks due to the nature of the colours (lots of removal). However, what you always forget is, what playing a RW Control deck means for the OTHER decks in your team.
As long as you do not run the Chalice version (which I personally do not like so much), you want Bolt/Paths in your list, which takes the best removal away from the card pool. This means, that your other decks are forced to run more linear/aggressive decks since they cannot properly build a interactive deck.
When you are running the Chalice version, you are skipping on Path and Bolts but at the same time you make your aggro match-up worse because of this, since your removal comes online later and your are more reliant on sweeper effects. Since you NEED those sweepers and especially Anger of the Gods (best modern legal 3 mana sweeper) results, that Anger, a card many fair decks want to play multiple copies, is not available for your other decks. Yes, the other fair deck(s) you would run have access to Bolt/Path, which makes this problem not that bad, but it is still a problem.
Next are the SB cards. W has the best sideboard cards in Modern (not even close). However, since the RW Chalice Control decks want stuff like RiP, Stony Silence and from time to time Leyline/Kor Firewalker it becomes harder to justify running a W based interactive deck along RW Control EVEN THOUGH you have access to Path.
Sure, you can run Jund alongside RW Chalice Control (Jund need Bolts) but at the same time, Jund needs Anger of the Gods vs multiple match-ups which again, hurts the RW Chalice version. When you want to run Junk instead (cause Path is open) you do not have access to the SB cards you really want and if you run Jeskai along it, you cannot run the Nahiri version, since RW Control needs Nahiri more than anything else.
In the meantime you have to ask yourself, if the other decks along RW Control are good in this specific meta, cause being able to run them along RW Control and being an actual good choice is a very important difference.
So, tl,dr: RW Control would be a good pick, but the opportunity costs and the effects on the other team decks might result, that it is not a go to pick per se.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Dredge
Ad Nauseam
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/writers/zen-takahashi/unified-modern-analysis-part-1
http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/writers/zen-takahashi/unified-modern-analysis-part-2
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
RG Titan Scapeshift GR
UBWAd Nauseam WBU
CEldrazi TronC