True-Name Nemesis and Shardless Agent are the only things I can think of that might have been too strong. Why didn't they do it this way? Wouldn't it have boosted sales?
I would not want them to have to consider the impact on modern every time they print a card for edh. Not to mention this would likely make the products harder to find at msrp and inflate the cost of singles on the secondary market. I see zero benefit considering the supplimental products all sell just fine.
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EDH playing competitive Magic cast away
Current Decks GTitania midrange RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
I think the logistics of it are a bit too difficult. Would it only be new cards from supplements or reprints, too? That could severely limit the things we see in in those supplements. For example: sol ring.
I think the logistics of it are a bit too difficult. Would it only be new cards from supplements or reprints, too? That could severely limit the things we see in in those supplements. For example: sol ring.
I came here to point out that pretty much every Commander deck has Ring, you think Tron or Affinity are any good now? About that....check how many Legacy decks play it. I am all for raising the overall power of the format, much more than most people, but not like that. I honestly didn't mind Eldrazi Winter, but that card is an Eldrazi Temple for all spells
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
I think the logistics of it are a bit too difficult. Would it only be new cards from supplements or reprints, too? That could severely limit the things we see in in those supplements. For example: sol ring.
I came here to point out that pretty much every Commander deck has Ring, you think Tron or Affinity are any good now? About that....check how many Legacy decks play it. I am all for raising the overall power of the format, much more than most people, but not like that. I honestly didn't mind Eldrazi Winter, but that card is an Eldrazi Temple for all spells
Sol Ring is already banned in Legacy, just ban it in Modern too.
Please no. I'm ok with the idea of new cards in Modern Masters sets but I'm not ok with new Modern cards in other supplemental sets. Those are the only locations where they can print Legacy and Vintage powered cards nowadays and cards appropriate for those power levels are not appropriate for Modern power levels. Modern is much closer to Standard than it is to those formats so while getting cards through Standard sets is only a slow trickle and everybody (including me) would want more, it's vastly superior to the alternative.
If they want to support modern better, all they have to do is reprint the modern mana-base regularly instead of bouncing around the place. Almost every single deck out there needs fetch lands and shock lands because the format is about fast mana. Making a statement that every two years they will reprint the full fetch cycle and shock-land cycle would go a long way to make the format more varied and get people to try more decks. EDH needs to stay away from modern legality simply for the sake that doing so keeps the costs down on cards and lets the format work as it was intended: A casual format that people can just buy a pre-made product for and have some fun.
But yeah, Wizards has been very weird with Modern Masters and Eternal masters. I just don't think the company leadership has the chops to do what is necessary to keep eternal formats alive.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I really don't understand how you get from "they're not crashing the fetchland market" to "they don't know how to support eternal formats." Seems like a complete non sequitur to me.
I really don't understand how you get from "they're not crashing the fetchland market" to "they don't know how to support eternal formats." Seems like a complete non sequitur to me.
To each his own rcwraspy. Been down this road and sometimes there are lines that just can't be rectified when it comes to opinion. Apparently one of those things is how to support a format and card reprint policy. The two points I made in my previous post relate perfectly fine, and we're not continuing this discussion unless it's going to involve PMs because there's more than enough people on the forum right now tired of seeing this kind of thing derail a thread.
My opinion on EDH is they should maintain their own cardpool separate of any modern influence. Primary reason is that Commander products were made to be accessible and casual fun that lets anyone pick up a pre-made product that is good enough out of the box to play against others with longer established decks. If a deck includes so much as a snapcaster mage as part of the 100 it would result in problems for WoTC and players alike right now.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
As much as I would love to add Baleful Strix to my Grixis decks, I think there are definitely too many wonky broken supplemental cards that would not do well in Modern.
It would be nice if they did more modern event decks
This is true. The BW Tokens list was an event deck that was criticized at first, but then people even flocked to buy them strictly for selling value. It helped put more Inquisition of Kozilek in circulation, along with a few other lesser played cards.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
It would be nice if they did more modern event decks
This is true. The BW Tokens list was an event deck that was criticized at first, but then people even flocked to buy them strictly for selling value. It helped put more Inquisition of Kozilek in circulation, along with a few other lesser played cards.
I actually bought it shortly after it came out as my original jump into Modern. Turns out it WAS a terrible list, and even after upgrades was exceedingly mediocre. Once I moved into the URx Twin shell, I never looked back (well... until it got banned...). But either way, I don't think a product like that is good for the format unless it's a competitively viable budget deck like burn or zoo or 8 whack. But something like that is so dependent on a changing meta that it can easily become irrelevant (like Modern Event Deck did), so I don't know. If there was too much value, it will be bought and stripped. If it's not enough value, it won't sell well. It's a difficult case to make it a successful product.
You could very well be right. I remember that the list at the beginning was pretty bad - I mean, 2 City of Brass for God's sake! The deck didn't seem to have the value at the time, but I remember when a friend was telling me that there may be good value. I didn't pull the trigger, but it went up even more after that and my LGS was cleaned out (they only had about 2 left). Sadly the few players who ran it and got more cards for BW Tokens don't play here anymore. I hope that's a coincidence and not caused by some means of the Event Deck. (I personally bought only 3 event decks ever - 3 of the Jitte one, 4 of the Stoneforge Mystic one, and 2 of the Verdant Catacombs one)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
$75 MSRP. Were you really expecting anything more?
I think it's actually harder to design an event deck than most people realize. The deck has to be watered down so that people can buy it to play and not just for value, but it has to not suck that bad even when watered down (so no Jund for example, since we know it's unplayable without the money cards). It also must not be too complex - a deck like Storm is a bad choice for someone totally new to Modern with no prior experience outside of creature-era Standard.
The trouble with modern is that the card pool is full of powerful cards that in combination drastically speed up the format and choke out a lot of strategies, making it impossible to transition into competitively outside of a few very specific decks. This alone is livable, but the fact these cards are also printed at high rarity and can be out of print for a long time hits people in the wallet harder than anything other than legacy. To even begin supporting the format as a playable format for the majority of players Wizards would have to go against their own TCG model to crash prices on the majority of money cards.
I'm sort of hoping for a 60 card eternal format similar to Commander that WoTC can better monitor and maybe keep the card pool under tighter control than with modern. That way they can reprint a controlled set of cards every year and let people enjoy prior sets in a less broken environment.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
On one hand it could be cool to have more modern playable cards. I say could be because more cards =/= more decks. Sometimes more cards = fewer unique cards being played. For example, how many 1-mana red removal spells get played? Basically one because bolt invalidates the rest. It's generally more interesting when you have a bunch of similarly powerful cards that do a thing, each with their pluses and minuses. That said, there are cards like Birthing Pod that inspire or open up whole new decks. I would like to see more cards like Collected Company, Pyromancer Ascension, or others in the format. They open up new strategies and ways to play.
So that's the metric I use for deciding whether a card would be good for the format. Cards like True Name Nemesis are not the kind of cards I love, they don't do something new, but are just powerful. These cards can be good if they boost strategies that otherwise wouldn't see play, but they often have unintended consequences. As much as I would like to see Stoneforge Mystic unbanned to help make Mardu or White Weenie decks good, it could just slot into control decks and shut these other decks down.
The problem is that many Commander cards are more True Name Nemesis than Birthing Pod. They could just do what they always do, print cool cards and ban them if they are a problem. I would like to see a way to get cards into modern without going through standard, but the Masters sets have shown reprints would be in low quantities. I think that in either case, card availability would be a problem. They just don't reprint cards enough to have these extra, smaller printings of new cards without prices being too high on them.
There are too many busted cards on the suplemental products that would almost double the modern banlist size. Not to mention it put a restrain on wizard of what cards they can print on those products. Currently, card power level by itself is not a restrain on cards that might show on the supelmental product.
What would be nice, is that Modern Master sets to be able to make legal reprints that aren't legal yet, for example, if they reprint FoW on a MM set it would be modern legal (notice that I'm NOT advocating for FoW in modern, it just an EXAMPLE), since they want to keep standard low powered to the point that it can't even have Accumulated Knowledge, they could make a way to make cards modern legal without being on standard.
$75 MSRP. Were you really expecting anything more?
I think it's actually harder to design an event deck than most people realize. The deck has to be watered down so that people can buy it to play and not just for value, but it has to not suck that bad even when watered down (so no Jund for example, since we know it's unplayable without the money cards). It also must not be too complex - a deck like Storm is a bad choice for someone totally new to Modern with no prior experience outside of creature-era Standard.
Off the top of my head merfolk, tron, affinity, and burn being good places to look
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Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
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Eh. With Ancestral Vision being back Shardless is MUCH better than it would have been once.
I came here to point out that pretty much every Commander deck has Ring, you think Tron or Affinity are any good now? About that....check how many Legacy decks play it. I am all for raising the overall power of the format, much more than most people, but not like that. I honestly didn't mind Eldrazi Winter, but that card is an Eldrazi Temple for all spells
Sol Ring is already banned in Legacy, just ban it in Modern too.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
But yeah, Wizards has been very weird with Modern Masters and Eternal masters. I just don't think the company leadership has the chops to do what is necessary to keep eternal formats alive.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
To each his own rcwraspy. Been down this road and sometimes there are lines that just can't be rectified when it comes to opinion. Apparently one of those things is how to support a format and card reprint policy. The two points I made in my previous post relate perfectly fine, and we're not continuing this discussion unless it's going to involve PMs because there's more than enough people on the forum right now tired of seeing this kind of thing derail a thread.
My opinion on EDH is they should maintain their own cardpool separate of any modern influence. Primary reason is that Commander products were made to be accessible and casual fun that lets anyone pick up a pre-made product that is good enough out of the box to play against others with longer established decks. If a deck includes so much as a snapcaster mage as part of the 100 it would result in problems for WoTC and players alike right now.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
This is true. The BW Tokens list was an event deck that was criticized at first, but then people even flocked to buy them strictly for selling value. It helped put more Inquisition of Kozilek in circulation, along with a few other lesser played cards.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I actually bought it shortly after it came out as my original jump into Modern. Turns out it WAS a terrible list, and even after upgrades was exceedingly mediocre. Once I moved into the URx Twin shell, I never looked back (well... until it got banned...). But either way, I don't think a product like that is good for the format unless it's a competitively viable budget deck like burn or zoo or 8 whack. But something like that is so dependent on a changing meta that it can easily become irrelevant (like Modern Event Deck did), so I don't know. If there was too much value, it will be bought and stripped. If it's not enough value, it won't sell well. It's a difficult case to make it a successful product.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I think it's actually harder to design an event deck than most people realize. The deck has to be watered down so that people can buy it to play and not just for value, but it has to not suck that bad even when watered down (so no Jund for example, since we know it's unplayable without the money cards). It also must not be too complex - a deck like Storm is a bad choice for someone totally new to Modern with no prior experience outside of creature-era Standard.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I'm sort of hoping for a 60 card eternal format similar to Commander that WoTC can better monitor and maybe keep the card pool under tighter control than with modern. That way they can reprint a controlled set of cards every year and let people enjoy prior sets in a less broken environment.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So that's the metric I use for deciding whether a card would be good for the format. Cards like True Name Nemesis are not the kind of cards I love, they don't do something new, but are just powerful. These cards can be good if they boost strategies that otherwise wouldn't see play, but they often have unintended consequences. As much as I would like to see Stoneforge Mystic unbanned to help make Mardu or White Weenie decks good, it could just slot into control decks and shut these other decks down.
The problem is that many Commander cards are more True Name Nemesis than Birthing Pod. They could just do what they always do, print cool cards and ban them if they are a problem. I would like to see a way to get cards into modern without going through standard, but the Masters sets have shown reprints would be in low quantities. I think that in either case, card availability would be a problem. They just don't reprint cards enough to have these extra, smaller printings of new cards without prices being too high on them.
What would be nice, is that Modern Master sets to be able to make legal reprints that aren't legal yet, for example, if they reprint FoW on a MM set it would be modern legal (notice that I'm NOT advocating for FoW in modern, it just an EXAMPLE), since they want to keep standard low powered to the point that it can't even have Accumulated Knowledge, they could make a way to make cards modern legal without being on standard.
It allows them to also reprint legacy staples without them entering standard and modern
Off the top of my head merfolk, tron, affinity, and burn being good places to look