So no, they do not unban cards soon after banning them. The one exception does not seem to support Twin coming back at all.
It's not like there's been a million bannings/unbannings in Modern. There's not that much of a precedent either way. I wouldn't be surprised if Twin got unbanned in the nearish-future, but I wouldn't put money on it either.
They did it with Wild Nacatl. I don't think the unban is a matter of "if" but a matter of "when." I do not expect any ban changes to happen this September, but if things stay as they are (or get even worse) I would absolutely expect something along those lines in January.
This is not factually accurate. At least according to WotC, Wild Nacatl was banned Dec 2011, and unbanned more than 2 years later in Feb 2014.
Sure, they will unban cards. However, it seems dubious to believe they would unban a card so soon after banning it. Valakut is the closest example, being unbanned a bit over a year after its banning. However, given that it was part of the initial banlist, I think we should view that as an exceptional case. This is confirmed by their explanation of the move:
"Recent Modern tournaments have been diverse, with no deck dominating the metagame. Since Modern is a non-rotating format, banned cards never rotate out. The DCI is unbanning a card to see how that affects the format. We looked for cards that were on the initial banned list for Pro Tour Philadelphia. We wanted a card that would not easily slot into an existing top deck and also wanted to enable a deck with a different play pattern than the current top decks. After examining the options, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle was selected as the card to unban."
So no, they do not unban cards soon after banning them. The one exception does not seem to support Twin coming back at all.
I cited Wild Nacatl for a reason. This is what was said in its unbanned announcement:
"At the time Wild Nacatl was banned, we hoped that this would allow room for other aggressive decks to shine. Artifact-based aggressive strategies have remained popular and a few other aggressive decks have emerged, but the Zoo decks eventually disappeared as a result of the ban and nothing else emerged as a viable traditional aggressive deck. We expect that with the return of Wild Nacatl, those decks will return as a viable option."
You swap "aggressive decks" for "reactive blue decks" and you have their Twin unban announcement.
1) They gave the Nacatl ban over 2 years to allow the metagame to adjust.
2) Jeskai Nahiri is a tier 1 "reactive blue deck".
3) "traditional aggressive decks" is a broader category than "reactive blue decks".
I think those 3 separate the Twin situation from the Nacatl situation by at least a year, a tier 1 deck and a more narrow metagame deficit.
edit: Seriously, it's been less than a year since the ban. Give it time and it might come back. Going on about it ad nauseam isn't helpful and doesn't make it more plausible.
1) They gave the Nacatl ban over 2 years to allow the metagame to adjust.
2) Jeskai Nahiri is a tier 1 "reactive blue deck".
3) "traditional aggressive decks" is a broader category than "reactive blue decks".
I think those 3 separate the Twin situation from the Nacatl situation by at least a year, a tier 1 deck and a more narrow metagame deficit.
Which is why I said it's a matter of time. According to KT, Nahiri is already out of Tier 1 as of the next MN update, and I don't think you can really argue that b;ue reactive decks have been objectively weak this past year, despite getting new win condition and two unbans (good lord, imagine how bad they'd be WITHOUT those?). If the trend continues, there's really no question that the archetype of reactive decks, especially blue ones, will need help. And MaRo has made it clear that help is not on the way in new cards. It might not be this ban update, it might not be the next ban update, but if things don't improve, and Modern continues its trajectory of degenerate damage races, it can only hold on for so long before people start leaving the format.
I have already personally scaled back my play and my purchases significantly. Fall means back in school; teaching in the day, graduate classes at night. Why would I want to budget my limited free time to play a deck I don't really like against a bunch of other decks that don't produce fun or interesting games? Most of which are over with 35 minutes left in the round, leaving me feel both frustrated AND like I wasted my time. This is a personal problem, sure, but turn 3 linear smash-fests will only remain interesting to the playerbase for so long. It's not a sustainable path when only one archetype of the game is competitively viable.
Man, having a 0 mana answer to any one thing that doesn't lose you the game seems so healthy for a format, can they not just come up with a 0 mana counter that could make it through Standard without wrecking standard?
It's not a sustainable path when only one archetype of the game is competitively viable.
What is that one archtype? "Non-Twin"? /s
If we go by the usually recognized archtypes in the metagame, we have aggro, mid-range, combo and control as viable decks. It is certainly biased towards aggro, but aggro is far from the "only one archetype of the game is competitively viable". Just look at the link Sheridan posted - hyperbolic sky is falling rhetoric is not helpful.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
It's not a sustainable path when only one archetype of the game is competitively viable.
What is that one archtype? "Non-Twin"? /s
If we go by the usually recognized archtypes in the metagame, we have aggro, mid-range, combo and control as viable decks. It is certainly biased towards aggro, but aggro is far from the "only one archetype of the game is competitively viable". Just look at the link Sheridan posted - hyperbolic sky is falling rhetoric is not helpful.
Haven't you been paying attention? Linear and Non-Linear are the archetypes now, except BGx isn't an acceptable representation of non-linear. (ok probably too snarky...)
I do wish some of the hyperbole would come down a bit. Jeskai Nahiri isn't "garbage," blue based decks aren't "garbage," and the format isn't all aggro. YES there are problems. Blue could probably use an additional boost. Preordain may help a little as a unban target. I just personally don't get why there necessarily has to be a T1 reactive control deck as some are pushing for. I'm not saying we shouldn't have one, but I have my concerns that a T1 mainstay (let's say similar to Miracles in Legacy) would probably bring its own set of problems. Also if we are to try and achieve a rock-paper-scissors style format, control should be losing to aggro anyway and this doesn't address the primary complaints people are having about the format currently.
I'd still like to see no bans until Jan (making Eye of Ugin an exceptional case). Unbans such as Preordain, maybe SFM would also be potentially welcome.
In my opinion, the format just needs something to hit both Dredge and Affinity somehow due to their ability to go wide as soon as turn 3 while backed up by Rally the Peasants and Cranial Plating respectively.
Of course, in order to actually hit either one in terms of speed without outright killing the deck's viability, you would have to ban quite a few cards in each ... or create a new card that hoses both without being OP against the likes of Infect, Zooicide, etc.
Can you give detailed reasons why a Tier 1 reactive deck would be a problem in Modern?
I'm assuming this is directed at me, but it isn't a banlist issue so I'm not really going to spend time explaining my reasoning other than control requires a more defined meta and does worse in an open field. If it can answer anything and everything thrown at it (even if it is 55% against the field as an example), then we start getting into other potential ban list criteria.
If you want a more detailed discussion on it, feel free to PM me.
It's not a sustainable path when only one archetype of the game is competitively viable.
What is that one archtype? "Non-Twin"? /s
If we go by the usually recognized archtypes in the metagame, we have aggro, mid-range, combo and control as viable decks. It is certainly biased towards aggro, but aggro is far from the "only one archetype of the game is competitively viable". Just look at the link Sheridan posted - hyperbolic sky is falling rhetoric is not helpful.
Haven't you been paying attention? Linear and Non-Linear are the archetypes now, except BGx isn't an acceptable representation of non-linear. (ok probably too snarky...)
I do wish some of the hyperbole would come down a bit. Jeskai Nahiri isn't "garbage," blue based decks aren't "garbage," and the format isn't all aggro. YES there are problems. Blue could probably use an additional boost. Preordain may help a little as a unban target. I just personally don't get why there necessarily has to be a T1 reactive control deck as some are pushing for. I'm not saying we shouldn't have one, but I have my concerns that a T1 mainstay (let's say similar to Miracles in Legacy) would probably bring its own set of problems. Also if we are to try and achieve a rock-paper-scissors style format, control should be losing to aggro anyway and this doesn't address the primary complaints people are having about the format currently.
I'd still like to see no bans until Jan (making Eye of Ugin an exceptional case). Unbans such as Preordain, maybe SFM would also be potentially welcome.
Figure its worth mentioning, I've been one of the more vocal advocates for Preordain. Specifically Preordain as it WONT power up a reactive U based strategy (as you said, we dont need this) but to help the proactive u based decks (delver, grixis, jeskai mid, ad nauseam, etc)
Figure its worth mentioning, I've been one of the more vocal advocates for Preordain. Specifically Preordain as it WONT power up a reactive U based strategy (as you said, we dont need this) but to help the proactive u based decks (delver, grixis, jeskai mid, ad nauseam, etc)
I definitely didn't word that as well as I could have. Preordain could help blue in general. I also don't think it would power up control decks (though it is still a tool they can use). I don't know if it should be unbanned, but I am not against it either. I haven't done the testing and can only chime in on how I feel about it as a SV replacement in decks I play.
I don't even think that you're necessarily wrong. The Aggro decks are all too fast, and that's part of the problem with the format. The fastest decks should be the combo decks, with Aggro being a turn or two slower, but all the combo decks that were faster than T4 have been banned out of the format. This has resulted in Aggro losing it's top predator, the entire archetype that's supposed to keep Aggro honest. However, we also have to consider public perception. The mass banning that would be required to slow down all the Aggro decks would be very unpalatable to most Modern players, even if it did result in the format being better overall.
I think WotC needs to consider different ban criteria for different archetypes. Maybe T3 combo decks should be ok, while T3 aggro decks are still not. Imagine if Amulet Bloom could have been adjusted in such a way where it still had its turn 3 speed, but lost most of its resiliency in the late game that made it so problematic. It could have been a deck that preyed on the aggro decks by being a turn faster, but that lost to counter magic, discard, or creature removal. Maybe the combo decks need to not be banned based on their speed, but based on how resilient they are to disruption.
Thank you for the reply, I would simply say that I'm not sure such arbitrary standards should be placed on decks, all I can say with certainty is that certain aggro decks and combo decks alike win way too fast and need to be slowed down, where they end up after that point matters little to me. One of the biggest criticisms Modern as a format receives is the sideboard card criticism in that you either live or die based on whether you can find them. I think this is definitely true especially in matchups like Goryo's where if you don't have a solid answer for their combo by T3 at the latest you actually just lose, which doesn't give you much time to find one in all honesty.
Now, it's a separate question as to whether Wizards wants consistency tools in Modern. I'm also willing to say that, if they don't want those tools, they really need to rethink that stance. Consistency tools would decrease variance in the reactive decks and help strategies find generic answers.
Wotc is in a catch 22. They cant change the format too much without ruining it for those that still enjoy it. There is a very good possibility if Wotc swung the format to a more interactive format, it would lose those players invested in the non interactive decks we have now. There is no guarantee they will add a certain amount of players.
In short, do they adjust the format so the pros like it more and lose the local scene (ala Extended)? or do they continue as they are catering to the local scenes?
With Modern Masters scheduled for a summer 2017 release. I dont think we will see much change in the status quo.
Now, it's a separate question as to whether Wizards wants consistency tools in Modern. I'm also willing to say that, if they don't want those tools, they really need to rethink that stance. Consistency tools would decrease variance in the reactive decks and help strategies find generic answers.
Wotc is in a catch 22. They cant change the format too much without ruining it for those that still enjoy it. There is a very good possibility if Wotc swung the format to a more interactive format, it would lose those players invested in the non interactive decks we have now. There is no guarantee they will add a certain amount of players.
In short, do they adjust the format so the pros like it more and lose the local scene (ala Extended)? or do they continue as they are catering to the local scenes?
With Modern Masters scheduled for a summer 2017 release. I dont think we will see much change in the status quo.
I don't agree that changes to the format would alienate players from the format. On an individual level, sure, some would leave. But others would join, and on a macro level it would probably stay the same. Modern's metagames have had multiple tectonic shifts since 2011 and banning Twin was one of the most controversial moves they've ever made w/r/t Modern, especially 6 months after reprinting it in Modern Masters. If those changes didn't drive away the masses (heck, banning Twin didn't even drive away cfusion!), it's hard to think that unbanning Preordain or printing stronger generic answers would.
I think "the masses" (i.e. not pro players) are drawn to Modern for the simple fact that it provides them with a place to play powerful cards that can see reprints as well as a place to put their old Standard cards that they didn't offload at a loss. Reprints, new prints, bans, and unbans won't change those 2 drivers.
What about Jund? BBE was banned and it's still a thing.
I wouldn't mind unbanning BBE in favor of Goyf or Lili. The banning of BBE and Deathrite Shaman killed Shaman Tribal, so a better solution needs to happen.
On DTT - It's not getting unbanned. It got its fair shake in Legacy. While giving it a try in Modern might be a good idea, it's a better idea for R&D and the Magic community to test it.
On SFM - Stoneforge was banned to stop cawblade. If it's unbanned(again, wouldn't mind), perhaps a swap ban for the Swords or Squad Hawk is a better idea.
And on Burn: Good job picking Crack and Atarka's, but let me tell you: 6-7 Crack effects is NOT good enough against lifegain.
BRGMy Deck(Modern): Bolts'n'Burns WMy other, WIP casual deck: Zero to Hero
Protection from Will-O'-the-Wisps, Ali-from-Cairos, and Uncle-Istvans
Legendary snow landwalk
---------------------------------------
On the reserved list: Wizards won't remove it. Only we can. In other words: Play Modern, Pauper, or No-RL Eternal.
It all comes down to PLAYER CHOICE what decks are played. Unbanning Twin won't help much with the metagame of only 2% control strategies. If you want to complain about the linear format, a better idea is to start playtesting and fine-tuning the existing Jeskai and Azorius control decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BRGMy Deck(Modern): Bolts'n'Burns WMy other, WIP casual deck: Zero to Hero
Protection from Will-O'-the-Wisps, Ali-from-Cairos, and Uncle-Istvans
Legendary snow landwalk
---------------------------------------
On the reserved list: Wizards won't remove it. Only we can. In other words: Play Modern, Pauper, or No-RL Eternal.
I'm still surprised Goryo's vengeance still isn't banned. With cards like Cathartic Reunion and much better loot effects getting printed every set, I think the card is just a ticking time bomb.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
On SFM - Stoneforge was banned to stop cawblade. If it's unbanned(again, wouldn't mind), perhaps a swap ban for the Swords or Squad Hawk is a better idea.
Are you seriously suggesting that a squadron hawk stoneforge deck would become tier 1 without Jace to brainstorm them back into more cards?
This is really poor analysis of the current state of modern. The format has lingering souls for one :).
I would count myself incredibly lucky to lose to a squadron hawk carrying a sword of war and peace in modern. The amount of durdling that had to have happened to get to that board state is pretty ridiculous.
Why isn't Goryo's banned? Because it hasn't done ANYTHING to be banned. It isn't top tier (recently bummed up to Tier 3 thanks to a GP top 8 with a long time pilot) and doesn't consistently win T4 or earlier. If it did it would be more widely played. I really wish this article was stickied at the top of every page or something on this thread. Understanding the Turn 4 Rule
Also, honestly I'm not sure any Goryo's deck wants Cathartic Reunion. It is an absolute terrible top deck. Getting that thing remanded is going to feel REALLY bad (I already dislike Tormenting voice for this reason in straight RB). Izzet Charm is far more flexible and does a much better looting imitation if you are running the Grixis version (either emrakul or shoal).
I'm still surprised Goryo's vengeance still isn't banned. With cards like Cathartic Reunion and much better loot effects getting printed every set, I think the card is just a ticking time bomb.
Then it's a good thing that bans require actual results and not just theorycraft and speculation.
Goryos deck is TOTALLY safe from now. I do admit that if it had Preordain, it would be on the line, but its safe. I can get the feeling that its a Bloom-style deck where much of your interaction is useless but its a low tier deck for now. Maaaybe this will change in the coming months though(I reckon that still will be 100% safe even if it goes up to tier 2)
idk, its a deck pretty weak to countermagic and discard, one big reason im totally ok with it, crushes aggro with a good hand, but throw in a bit of disruption + a clock and its kept in check
I've played a lot of RB Grishoalbrand - basically the first version of the deck that came to notoriety in the hands of Bob Huang. The deck is not weak to countermagic. In fact, it does very well against durdle decks. Between the Splice mechanic, Goryo's Vengeance being cheap, and 1 Boseiju/3 Pact of Negation in the SB, decks trying to counter Grishoalbrand have a very tough time.
The 2 decks that are the toughest to beat, oddly enough, are 2 of the decks that Bloom Titan had a tough time with as well - Infect especially and Affinity to a smaller extent. These decks are just too quick and have an insane clock if not interacted with. Probably the number one thing holding the deck back is the inconsistency. I am willing to admit that now, because despite the fact that you have Faithless Looting and Night's Whisper, awkward hands can still happen. The other problem is that the deck doesn't interact with other super quick clocks (like Infect and Affinity), outside of Pyroclasm, maybe Inquisition of Kozilek, and Blood Moon.
Now with the Grixis list, this may be different, but I still have my doubts about it losing to countermagic. (I also played Grixis Vengeance 2 years ago.)
This signifies a problem in my opinion. Combo has traditionally stomped Aggro because Aggro doesn't interact and Combo's clock is quicker. With Modern not having the archetype of "Control," it throws a lot of things out of whack. Midrange decks are supposed to do very well vs. Aggro as well, but this doesn't always work out like this. Modern doesn't follow these historic traits of the archetypes.
*To give an example of the inconsistency of the deck, I've started 3-0, winning on an average of turn 2.5. Then I've lost the next 2 rounds, losing on an average turn of 8. This shows how many turns that you can go draw 2 or draw 2, discard 2, and not find either the payoff or the creature.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I've played a lot of RB Grishoalbrand - basically the first version of the deck that came to notoriety in the hands of Bob Huang. The deck is not weak to countermagic. In fact, it does very well against durdle decks. Between the Splice mechanic, Goryo's Vengeance being cheap, and 1 Boseiju/3 Pact of Negation in the SB, decks trying to counter Grishoalbrand have a very tough time.
The 2 decks that are the toughest to beat, oddly enough, are 2 of the decks that Bloom Titan had a tough time with as well - Infect especially and Affinity to a smaller extent. These decks are just too quick and have an insane clock if not interacted with. Probably the number one thing holding the deck back is the inconsistency. I am willing to admit that now, because despite the fact that you have Faithless Looting and Night's Whisper, awkward hands can still happen. The other problem is that the deck doesn't interact with other super quick clocks (like Infect and Affinity), outside of Pyroclasm, maybe Inquisition of Kozilek, and Blood Moon.
Now with the Grixis list, this may be different, but I still have my doubts about it losing to countermagic. (I also played Grixis Vengeance 2 years ago.)
This signifies a problem in my opinion. Combo has traditionally stomped Aggro because Aggro doesn't interact and Combo's clock is quicker. With Modern not having the archetype of "Control," it throws a lot of things out of whack. Midrange decks are supposed to do very well vs. Aggro as well, but this doesn't always work out like this. Modern doesn't follow these historic traits of the archetypes.
*To give an example of the inconsistency of the deck, I've started 3-0, winning on an average of turn 2.5. Then I've lost the next 2 rounds, losing on an average turn of 8. This shows how many turns that you can go draw 2 or draw 2, discard 2, and not find either the payoff or the creature.
It's not like there's been a million bannings/unbannings in Modern. There's not that much of a precedent either way. I wouldn't be surprised if Twin got unbanned in the nearish-future, but I wouldn't put money on it either.
I cited Wild Nacatl for a reason. This is what was said in its unbanned announcement:
"At the time Wild Nacatl was banned, we hoped that this would allow room for other aggressive decks to shine. Artifact-based aggressive strategies have remained popular and a few other aggressive decks have emerged, but the Zoo decks eventually disappeared as a result of the ban and nothing else emerged as a viable traditional aggressive deck. We expect that with the return of Wild Nacatl, those decks will return as a viable option."
You swap "aggressive decks" for "reactive blue decks" and you have their Twin unban announcement.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
2) Jeskai Nahiri is a tier 1 "reactive blue deck".
3) "traditional aggressive decks" is a broader category than "reactive blue decks".
I think those 3 separate the Twin situation from the Nacatl situation by at least a year, a tier 1 deck and a more narrow metagame deficit.
edit: Seriously, it's been less than a year since the ban. Give it time and it might come back. Going on about it ad nauseam isn't helpful and doesn't make it more plausible.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Which is why I said it's a matter of time. According to KT, Nahiri is already out of Tier 1 as of the next MN update, and I don't think you can really argue that b;ue reactive decks have been objectively weak this past year, despite getting new win condition and two unbans (good lord, imagine how bad they'd be WITHOUT those?). If the trend continues, there's really no question that the archetype of reactive decks, especially blue ones, will need help. And MaRo has made it clear that help is not on the way in new cards. It might not be this ban update, it might not be the next ban update, but if things don't improve, and Modern continues its trajectory of degenerate damage races, it can only hold on for so long before people start leaving the format.
I have already personally scaled back my play and my purchases significantly. Fall means back in school; teaching in the day, graduate classes at night. Why would I want to budget my limited free time to play a deck I don't really like against a bunch of other decks that don't produce fun or interesting games? Most of which are over with 35 minutes left in the round, leaving me feel both frustrated AND like I wasted my time. This is a personal problem, sure, but turn 3 linear smash-fests will only remain interesting to the playerbase for so long. It's not a sustainable path when only one archetype of the game is competitively viable.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
http://modernnexus.com/modern-metagame-breakdown-aug-16/
If we go by the usually recognized archtypes in the metagame, we have aggro, mid-range, combo and control as viable decks. It is certainly biased towards aggro, but aggro is far from the "only one archetype of the game is competitively viable". Just look at the link Sheridan posted - hyperbolic sky is falling rhetoric is not helpful.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Haven't you been paying attention? Linear and Non-Linear are the archetypes now, except BGx isn't an acceptable representation of non-linear. (ok probably too snarky...)
I do wish some of the hyperbole would come down a bit. Jeskai Nahiri isn't "garbage," blue based decks aren't "garbage," and the format isn't all aggro. YES there are problems. Blue could probably use an additional boost. Preordain may help a little as a unban target. I just personally don't get why there necessarily has to be a T1 reactive control deck as some are pushing for. I'm not saying we shouldn't have one, but I have my concerns that a T1 mainstay (let's say similar to Miracles in Legacy) would probably bring its own set of problems. Also if we are to try and achieve a rock-paper-scissors style format, control should be losing to aggro anyway and this doesn't address the primary complaints people are having about the format currently.
I'd still like to see no bans until Jan (making Eye of Ugin an exceptional case). Unbans such as Preordain, maybe SFM would also be potentially welcome.
Of course, in order to actually hit either one in terms of speed without outright killing the deck's viability, you would have to ban quite a few cards in each ... or create a new card that hoses both without being OP against the likes of Infect, Zooicide, etc.
Avatar and Signature by XenoNinja via Heroes of the Plane Studios
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
I'm assuming this is directed at me, but it isn't a banlist issue so I'm not really going to spend time explaining my reasoning other than control requires a more defined meta and does worse in an open field. If it can answer anything and everything thrown at it (even if it is 55% against the field as an example), then we start getting into other potential ban list criteria.
If you want a more detailed discussion on it, feel free to PM me.
Figure its worth mentioning, I've been one of the more vocal advocates for Preordain. Specifically Preordain as it WONT power up a reactive U based strategy (as you said, we dont need this) but to help the proactive u based decks (delver, grixis, jeskai mid, ad nauseam, etc)
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
I definitely didn't word that as well as I could have. Preordain could help blue in general. I also don't think it would power up control decks (though it is still a tool they can use). I don't know if it should be unbanned, but I am not against it either. I haven't done the testing and can only chime in on how I feel about it as a SV replacement in decks I play.
Thank you for the reply, I would simply say that I'm not sure such arbitrary standards should be placed on decks, all I can say with certainty is that certain aggro decks and combo decks alike win way too fast and need to be slowed down, where they end up after that point matters little to me. One of the biggest criticisms Modern as a format receives is the sideboard card criticism in that you either live or die based on whether you can find them. I think this is definitely true especially in matchups like Goryo's where if you don't have a solid answer for their combo by T3 at the latest you actually just lose, which doesn't give you much time to find one in all honesty.
Wotc is in a catch 22. They cant change the format too much without ruining it for those that still enjoy it. There is a very good possibility if Wotc swung the format to a more interactive format, it would lose those players invested in the non interactive decks we have now. There is no guarantee they will add a certain amount of players.
In short, do they adjust the format so the pros like it more and lose the local scene (ala Extended)? or do they continue as they are catering to the local scenes?
With Modern Masters scheduled for a summer 2017 release. I dont think we will see much change in the status quo.
I think "the masses" (i.e. not pro players) are drawn to Modern for the simple fact that it provides them with a place to play powerful cards that can see reprints as well as a place to put their old Standard cards that they didn't offload at a loss. Reprints, new prints, bans, and unbans won't change those 2 drivers.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I wouldn't mind unbanning BBE in favor of Goyf or Lili. The banning of BBE and Deathrite Shaman killed Shaman Tribal, so a better solution needs to happen.
On DTT - It's not getting unbanned. It got its fair shake in Legacy. While giving it a try in Modern might be a good idea, it's a better idea for R&D and the Magic community to test it.
On SFM - Stoneforge was banned to stop cawblade. If it's unbanned(again, wouldn't mind), perhaps a swap ban for the Swords or Squad Hawk is a better idea.
And on Burn: Good job picking Crack and Atarka's, but let me tell you: 6-7 Crack effects is NOT good enough against lifegain.
WMy other, WIP casual deck: Zero to Hero
Protection from Will-O'-the-Wisps, Ali-from-Cairos, and Uncle-Istvans
Legendary snow landwalk
---------------------------------------
On the reserved list: Wizards won't remove it. Only we can. In other words: Play Modern, Pauper, or No-RL Eternal.
WMy other, WIP casual deck: Zero to Hero
Protection from Will-O'-the-Wisps, Ali-from-Cairos, and Uncle-Istvans
Legendary snow landwalk
---------------------------------------
On the reserved list: Wizards won't remove it. Only we can. In other words: Play Modern, Pauper, or No-RL Eternal.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Are you seriously suggesting that a squadron hawk stoneforge deck would become tier 1 without Jace to brainstorm them back into more cards?
This is really poor analysis of the current state of modern. The format has lingering souls for one :).
I would count myself incredibly lucky to lose to a squadron hawk carrying a sword of war and peace in modern. The amount of durdling that had to have happened to get to that board state is pretty ridiculous.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Also, honestly I'm not sure any Goryo's deck wants Cathartic Reunion. It is an absolute terrible top deck. Getting that thing remanded is going to feel REALLY bad (I already dislike Tormenting voice for this reason in straight RB). Izzet Charm is far more flexible and does a much better looting imitation if you are running the Grixis version (either emrakul or shoal).
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
idk, its a deck pretty weak to countermagic and discard, one big reason im totally ok with it, crushes aggro with a good hand, but throw in a bit of disruption + a clock and its kept in check
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
The 2 decks that are the toughest to beat, oddly enough, are 2 of the decks that Bloom Titan had a tough time with as well - Infect especially and Affinity to a smaller extent. These decks are just too quick and have an insane clock if not interacted with. Probably the number one thing holding the deck back is the inconsistency. I am willing to admit that now, because despite the fact that you have Faithless Looting and Night's Whisper, awkward hands can still happen. The other problem is that the deck doesn't interact with other super quick clocks (like Infect and Affinity), outside of Pyroclasm, maybe Inquisition of Kozilek, and Blood Moon.
Now with the Grixis list, this may be different, but I still have my doubts about it losing to countermagic. (I also played Grixis Vengeance 2 years ago.)
This signifies a problem in my opinion. Combo has traditionally stomped Aggro because Aggro doesn't interact and Combo's clock is quicker. With Modern not having the archetype of "Control," it throws a lot of things out of whack. Midrange decks are supposed to do very well vs. Aggro as well, but this doesn't always work out like this. Modern doesn't follow these historic traits of the archetypes.
*To give an example of the inconsistency of the deck, I've started 3-0, winning on an average of turn 2.5. Then I've lost the next 2 rounds, losing on an average turn of 8. This shows how many turns that you can go draw 2 or draw 2, discard 2, and not find either the payoff or the creature.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Quick question: what about the Merfolk matchup?
Avatar and Signature by XenoNinja via Heroes of the Plane Studios