So Spell queller seems pretty awesome, finally an iteration of mystic snake that seems playabe. Granted I'm looking at it for esper spirits and it becomes worse when the rest of your deck isn't giving out hexproof like candy, but it still seems like a solid tempo card
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
And another overnerfed version of Fact or Fiction. I'm really not a fan of all those worse versions of older cards, just reprint the real thing ffs.
Although it is an interesting concept, if they had at least left the number of cards at 5 it could have been a nice card.
They desperately want to have Fact or Fiction but I think every time they start with it they just feel it's too good (it's very good, I don't know about too good though. In a slow format like Standard I could see it being dominant though).
This set looks like it had a ton of potential but could also equally have a bunch of cards that flame out and do nothing. I almost wonder if Grim Flayer would fit in well to Junk (potentially in the slot Bob takes in Jund). Sure it's not exactly CA but it's definitely card selection which is nice. I do sorta like the new Liliana because she can kill things like Lingering Souls tokens and could potentially help recur Siege Rhinos. I'm not putting down 3 CMC or less walkers until I give them a spin.
Chaos Reveler seems like it can be broken, but I'm not seeing how. RR for a 3/4 and three cards is amazing, but you need to get 6 instants or sorceries into your graveyard and empty your hand. Delve was busted, but fetchlands fed delve, as did Thought Scour - the problem with Thought Scour here is that you're not guaranteed to always mill I/S, and Reveler is double red.
Nahiri's Wrath is like a worse Conflagrate. You can't use it in Ad Nauseam as a wincon because it can't target players. You can't combo it with Life from the Loam because lands have a CMC of zero. In combo or control decks, you probably have few creatures of your own, so you can just play Pyroclasm or Anger of the Gods.
It is an extra combo piece for the Kindle the Carnage deck though. You put Ragged Veins or Spiteful Shadows on an opposing creature, then hit it with Kindle the Carnage, discarding your whole hand which probably includes Emrakul. Use Forbidden Orchard to give your opponent a creature if they don't play any. That said, it's a very inconsistent deck, and it's stopped by removal.
Spell Queller looks strong. It's Thoughtbind on a body. I feel like it needs a little something extra to make it good though. Tidehollow Sculler provides processor fuel for Wasteland Strangler and Fiend Hunter can be Chorded or Companyed for. Is there a deck that has similar synergistic interactions with Spell Queller? If there, is I think it could be playable. Nobody plays Castigate or Unmake, but they play Sculler and Hunter due to the synergies that they have with the rest of the deck - so since nobody plays Thoughtbind, what synergies does Spell Queller have to compensate?
Fortune's Favor is another Fact or Fiction variant. Now you get to play a fun guessing game - did your opponent put the cards that you need in the face-down pile where you can't see them, or is just trying to trick you? Anyway, I think this card is more fascinating than it is playable. 4 mana draw spells aren't really what you want to be doing in Modern. It'll make for a good game theory example though.
Chaos Reveler seems legit in a URx Delver deck. I wouldn't run the full playset though. Fortune's Favor looks like a lot of fun to play. If it cost 1less I'd probably run it in a control shell. I suspect Spell Queller is conditionally viable, depending on if the UWx tempo shell is capable of protecting it, and if they really need a 3 CMC mystic snake. My estimation is "no" to both answers, although maybe as a sideboard card against GBx decks. It looks like a lot of cards fit fairly well into a Grixis Delver list or a Sultai Delver list. Whispers of Emrakul is probably workable in that sort of deck. Also Gnarlwood Dryad is the best conditional 1cmc 3/3 I've seen in a while. Deathtouch means it always trades favorably with a lot of relevant creature cards (Tas, Goyf, Fish, Swiftspear) and no-one is going to want to block it with 0-power walls. It's not Nimble Mongoose, but I'll take it.
So working on modern madness (which I actually finally got working with stromkirk... undervalued that card) Ive done a fair amount of online testing on cockatrice and ran into ALOT of Grim Flayer.
The only time I saw it shine was a deck that made use of delirium... as in it went out of its way to activate it. Grim Flayer is probably the only good delirium card printed to date for modern (Traverse the Ulvenwald hasnt put up results because stuff like collected company is better.) Because its the only one that turns on itself.
I didn't say it was a good card. If you are looking for beat stick... tarmogoyf is better. If you are looking to dredge, Satyr Wayfinder. I know that last one sounds like I'm pulling it outta my ass, but any dredge player will tell you its the best card to use in dredgevine.
You need to be in a spot where you can make use of its dredging and beat sticking, which isnt dredge since they will beat stick with bloodghasts and vengevines better, and it isnt jund, because tarmo is just light years better. Itd have to be deathcloud or something... and even then tarmo might just be better.
Traverse has nothing to do with Company, I feel like I'm repeating myself and this point Company requires deck building restrictions like 28+ creatures to work, Traverse allows you to chain Snaps, get huge Goyfs when needed, easily flip Erayo, Soratami Ascendant (GG against many decks), or fetch a random Clique against Ad Nauseam. You can also play with only 12 creatures with Traverse, in fact I'd recommend that. Again, completely and utterly different cards that to completely different things.
That being said, Flayer looks busted to me. Geez. I guess I'll be moving from RUG to BUG if this trend continues...
Jesus, this set is amazing. Seriously, best set ever since original Innistrad??
I'm orgasming right now with that Chaos Reveler... omggggg!!! Imagine a typical scenario against Jund where you've been trading resources and are top decking, but you obviously have quite a few serum visions, gitaxian probes and Bolts in the yard. Topdeck Traverse the Ulvenwald, pay RR, cast a 3/4 Prowess with an Ancestral Recall attached to it.
I'll repeat, RR: Put a 3/4 token with Prowess, then cast Ancestral Recall
Granted as a 4-of it's too much and it may be clunky on occasions, but as a tutorable target... damn
Also, that spirit seems very legit in a Spirits deck with Rattlechains and Geist, it's a 3 mana counter spell attached to a body which can be protected with other spirits and brings the beats. Put it together with the indestructible spirit guy I could see spirits tempo become a thing
Friendly reminder, text that is huge and red is spam by our rules. ~Lantern
Nahiri's Wrath is something that I have wanted for years for Breaking Bad Combo. Being able to discard Elesh Norn, Iona, or Pathrazer of Ulamog while killing a creature is great, especially since you can use it to kill multiple creatures, it can take out planeswalkers (Liliana is so annoying for the deck if you have to use Unburial Rites), it can discard Unburial Rites, and most importantly, it can't be cascaded into.
I dont want the thread to devolve in the transverse argument. I hear its very very good in EDH.
I think if anyplace has use for Bedlam Reveler it will be a 1 of 2 of in a deck like delver tempo to reload in the late game. I'm more in the business of looking at existing things that are good and seeing its place added to that.
Spell Queller is more like a misdirection with a body... which isnt bad. you can assume a deck that plays it, by the time it dies, it the spell is no longer relivent. I mean, you can use it to eat a living end, and can they rehit it? Sure but it cost them 2-3 turns, they got hit a few times, and you drew a few more cards. It delays, and to assume it counters is wrong because sans usinging in spirit tribal... which isnt good, you can use it to buy you time, things tempo and control love. The fact it is actually really good against aggro decks is gravy for it, since it exiles a loxodon smiter, and then brings it back around turn 6.... which is aweful.
Holy *****. It's actually just Wild Mongrel. With reach?? Just so you can fight Affinity and Infect?
I think that's a format changer.
Beat me to it. Is this the first single-any-card-discard-outlet-that's-reasonably-costed creature in Modern? I believe it is. For sure going to spawn a lot of new decks.
Actually my first thought is that without Circular Logic UG madness won't be a thing again, but Necrotic Ooze may become a bit too amazing with this. You can dump your hand at any instant now and just combo off. There is a billion combos you can make with that card and in the straight BG Rock shell you have the standard Devoted Druid + Quillspike combo as well as access to Griselbrand and friends.
Is being able to discard any card type really that important compared to Lotleth Troll? Honest question
Yes because of all of the non-creature madness cards, as well as being able to pitch stuff like Lands that can come back with Life from the Loam. It just means you have a plethora of more options rather than being restricted to only one type of card.
Is being able to discard any card type really that important compared to Lotleth Troll? Honest question
100%. It enables delirium and madness, can easily pump out of Bolt range without discard restrictions, and turns unused cards into damage, delve resources, Snapcaster targets, Life from the Loam targets, etc. It really has a massive effect on the format.
Hell yes, Noose Constrictor is great for Madness. Goodbye Ravenous Bloodseeker. This forces the deck into 3 colors but I'm fine with that; I already had Lotleth Troll anyway.
I'm still skeptical on whether Madness will become a real deck though. It should have no problems beating the fair decks with recurring Bloodghasts and instant-speed madness guys, but the fast decks may be a problem. Collective Brutality seems like a good SB card since it gives you game against both aggro and control while also enabling the deck.
Is being able to discard any card type really that important compared to Lotleth Troll? Honest question
Kind of. Asylum Visitor and Bloodhall Priest reward you for being hellbent, so you can ditch two lands. But Troll is one of the best enablers, so you're going to end up with a creature-heavy deck anyway.
In that context, consider this Chaos Reveller:
Pros
Already Red
Doesn't use up graveyard to cast, thus better in multiples.
Comes with an aggressive body.
Cons
Costs RR at least.
Only counts instants and sorceries
Discards hand
I am pretty sure this will see play in burn. The deck would look very different from the current Naya builds, probably with less creatures.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
Moved to the EMN spoiler thread from the SOI one. Remember to check your titles!
- Torpf
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
And another overnerfed version of Fact or Fiction. I'm really not a fan of all those worse versions of older cards, just reprint the real thing ffs.
Although it is an interesting concept, if they had at least left the number of cards at 5 it could have been a nice card.
4 Kindle the Carnage
4 Blasphemous Act
4 Ragged Veins
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Hornet Nest
4 Beast Within
4 Avatar of Might
4 Lightning Bolt
20 Other lands
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
They desperately want to have Fact or Fiction but I think every time they start with it they just feel it's too good (it's very good, I don't know about too good though. In a slow format like Standard I could see it being dominant though).
Spell Queller, Nahiri's Wrath and Chaos Reveler all look modern playable, what a crazy spoiler day so late in the run
Nahiri's Wrath is like a worse Conflagrate. You can't use it in Ad Nauseam as a wincon because it can't target players. You can't combo it with Life from the Loam because lands have a CMC of zero. In combo or control decks, you probably have few creatures of your own, so you can just play Pyroclasm or Anger of the Gods.
It is an extra combo piece for the Kindle the Carnage deck though. You put Ragged Veins or Spiteful Shadows on an opposing creature, then hit it with Kindle the Carnage, discarding your whole hand which probably includes Emrakul. Use Forbidden Orchard to give your opponent a creature if they don't play any. That said, it's a very inconsistent deck, and it's stopped by removal.
Spell Queller looks strong. It's Thoughtbind on a body. I feel like it needs a little something extra to make it good though. Tidehollow Sculler provides processor fuel for Wasteland Strangler and Fiend Hunter can be Chorded or Companyed for. Is there a deck that has similar synergistic interactions with Spell Queller? If there, is I think it could be playable. Nobody plays Castigate or Unmake, but they play Sculler and Hunter due to the synergies that they have with the rest of the deck - so since nobody plays Thoughtbind, what synergies does Spell Queller have to compensate?
Fortune's Favor is another Fact or Fiction variant. Now you get to play a fun guessing game - did your opponent put the cards that you need in the face-down pile where you can't see them, or is just trying to trick you? Anyway, I think this card is more fascinating than it is playable. 4 mana draw spells aren't really what you want to be doing in Modern. It'll make for a good game theory example though.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Take Inventory is... disappointing. If only it was instant speed... Accumulated Knowledgewouldn't break the format.
Traverse has nothing to do with Company, I feel like I'm repeating myself and this point Company requires deck building restrictions like 28+ creatures to work, Traverse allows you to chain Snaps, get huge Goyfs when needed, easily flip Erayo, Soratami Ascendant (GG against many decks), or fetch a random Clique against Ad Nauseam. You can also play with only 12 creatures with Traverse, in fact I'd recommend that. Again, completely and utterly different cards that to completely different things.
That being said, Flayer looks busted to me. Geez. I guess I'll be moving from RUG to BUG if this trend continues...
Anyways, this deck seems very sweet to me:
4 Grim Flayer
4 Architects of Will
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Erayo, Sorarami Ascendant
4 Serum Visions
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Whispers of Emrakul
3 Vapor Snag
2 Nameless Inversion
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
I'm orgasming right now with that Chaos Reveler... omggggg!!! Imagine a typical scenario against Jund where you've been trading resources and are top decking, but you obviously have quite a few serum visions, gitaxian probes and Bolts in the yard. Topdeck Traverse the Ulvenwald, pay RR, cast a 3/4 Prowess with an Ancestral Recall attached to it.
I'll repeat, RR: Put a 3/4 token with Prowess, then cast Ancestral Recall
Granted as a 4-of it's too much and it may be clunky on occasions, but as a tutorable target... damn
Also, that spirit seems very legit in a Spirits deck with Rattlechains and Geist, it's a 3 mana counter spell attached to a body which can be protected with other spirits and brings the beats. Put it together with the indestructible spirit guy I could see spirits tempo become a thing
Friendly reminder, text that is huge and red is spam by our rules. ~Lantern
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I think if anyplace has use for Bedlam Reveler it will be a 1 of 2 of in a deck like delver tempo to reload in the late game. I'm more in the business of looking at existing things that are good and seeing its place added to that.
Spell Queller is more like a misdirection with a body... which isnt bad. you can assume a deck that plays it, by the time it dies, it the spell is no longer relivent. I mean, you can use it to eat a living end, and can they rehit it? Sure but it cost them 2-3 turns, they got hit a few times, and you drew a few more cards. It delays, and to assume it counters is wrong because sans usinging in spirit tribal... which isnt good, you can use it to buy you time, things tempo and control love. The fact it is actually really good against aggro decks is gravy for it, since it exiles a loxodon smiter, and then brings it back around turn 6.... which is aweful.
I think that's a format changer.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
100%. It enables delirium and madness, can easily pump out of Bolt range without discard restrictions, and turns unused cards into damage, delve resources, Snapcaster targets, Life from the Loam targets, etc. It really has a massive effect on the format.
Not to mention sometimes you really need to discard a non-creature for x or y, Troll screws you.
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
I'm still skeptical on whether Madness will become a real deck though. It should have no problems beating the fair decks with recurring Bloodghasts and instant-speed madness guys, but the fast decks may be a problem. Collective Brutality seems like a good SB card since it gives you game against both aggro and control while also enabling the deck.
Kind of. Asylum Visitor and Bloodhall Priest reward you for being hellbent, so you can ditch two lands. But Troll is one of the best enablers, so you're going to end up with a creature-heavy deck anyway.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
MARKET RESEARCH HAS SHOWN WE CAN STILL AFFORD TO GO ABSOLUTELY BAT***** INSANE ON SOME OF THE DRAFT CHAFF.
SO WE DECIDED TO MAKE ANOTHER WILD MONGREL. WHILE BEING FULLY AWARE OF HOW MUCH OF A MISTAKE WILD MONGREL WAS BACK IN THE DAY.