EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
The deck has a tokens/dorks subtheme which are meant to instantly kill the opponent with Garruk's Overrun once Oath of Gideon is in play, obviously helping at the same time to ramp to the Planeswalkers. Tamiyo does seem absolutely nuts with all the tokens, and with Oath of Gideon it ultimates as fast as Nahiti, which can also be relevant.
I think the biggest problem is as bill_zagoudis said the quality of the removal. Black and Red related spells are just much better at it than blue it seems. ( I don't like Bant Charm as well as Azorius Charm and I already statetd to the discard- counter dilemma)
I really don't think the removal is bad in Bant colors - no one really questions the removal in UW - you're just literally splashing green into what others consider a good deck. Everyone is totally cool with UW control but as soon as people splash green someone goes 'Oh no Bant isn't good.'. It sounds to me like Bant's actual problem is one of public relations.
Maybe then if not control then Bant tokens is the way to go. Gideon and Nissa both showed their strength at GP LA - I can't see why Elspeth and Tamiyo (with a very light blue splash), couldn't help to push the deck forward. With Hierarch and Paradise the splash is almost completely free as it is.
There is definitely a lack of public support for Bant but with good reason. There isn't a clear direction for Bant to take (Eldrazi aside). The combos and CoCo are good options at this point but when those decks appeared there wasn't any moment of clarity where anyone thought Bant was going to crush the competition. It's underrated perhaps so very few people are experimenting with it but I don't blame them for not wanting to bother. I've been testing and playing Bant for years now with all kinds of unorthodox builds but unfortunately it is very true that Bant has am ATROCIOUS lack of good removal. You can't really compare it to UW because when you add green, you are committing to a heavier creature base. UW doesn't do that so they can run wraths that Bant can't. Also, Bant has no efficient universal removal option for nonland permanents. There are no worthwhile spells to deal with planeswalkers after they've landed, only combat which honestly sucks.
That said, I'm very excited to get back to brewing. I think I'll be pushing Unsubstantiate before I push for Tamiyo. I think an average creature base with a tempo centric gameplan could have some future, Tamiyo would likely slot into such a deck well - providing CA and tapping blockers. I don't know the best build for her yet, but on paper she fairs well in many different environments. My question is whether she is worth playing over Elspeth or the other walkers in a Bant deck.
I really don't think the removal is bad in Bant colors - no one really questions the removal in UW - you're just literally splashing green into what others consider a good deck. Everyone is totally cool with UW control but as soon as people splash green someone goes 'Oh no Bant isn't good.'. It sounds to me like Bant's actual problem is one of public relations.
Actually there is a problem with UW: there aren't many viable options to kill a turn 1 mana dork. Pathing it is useless, Dismember costs 4 life, Sunlance and Oust can't hit it T1 on the play, and Condemn doesn't work because mana dorks aren't meant to attack. Twisted Image and Gut Shot kill them, but they miss out on a lot of other targets so they're SB cards at best. That's why adding red to a UW deck helps, because you now have Bolt to deal with dorks. Adding green doesn't have the same effect.
There's always... Piracy Charm, I guess. I actually used to run it in a charm-heavy Bant list back in the day, and it always drew gasps.
So far, the card I'm the most impressed with from EMN is Eternal Scourge. Semi-Hexproof, efficient enough beater that any deck can play? Sign me up!
Then I stuck 4 of them in Bant Eldrazi with 2 Selective Memory. As a Turn 2-3 play, Eternal Scourge already performed well enough (although I did see spot removal aimed at it), but Selective Memory was insane in Bant Eldrazi. Just exile all Eternal Scourges and remaining Selective Memorys from my deck! And then I can cast at least 1 Eternal Scourge right away surprisingly often!
In the meantime, Take Inventory was surprisingly good in UWR Nahiri, even without self-mill. In long, grindy games, I hit the 3rd Take Inventory fairly often. And topdecking the card and cashing in CA from it immediately felt great.
Well if you noticed in the recent spoiler we are getting a spell that is modern legal and can now "donate" any permanent we control.
now that we are getting a spell that can do this, it opens up a new line of play. my problem is I don't immediately see modern's equivelant of illusions of grandeur for a true 'trix" deck.
closest I have so far is Demonic Pact, but it takes 3 turns before you "donate" it to an opponent who is left with only the you lose the game option.
what else does modern offer that can be donated to an opponent for the win?
Maybe some sort of mana denial deck with Aggressive Mining? Granted, you can't cast it until turn 4, which may be too late for the effect, but it is an option. Or, maybe you can find something to work with cards like Steel Golem, Pyromancer's Swath, Abyssal Persecutor, or Immortal Coil (and grave hate). All of them seem pretty janky (including Demonic Pact), but these seem to be the best options I could find.
I feel like Blessed Alliance could have been really interesting with Isochron scepter in No-Stick if you had the mana, and Im hopeful for more similar to it but with more modern circumstances in mind.
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
I feel like Blessed Alliance could have been really interesting with Isochron scepter in No-Stick if you had the mana, and Im hopeful for more similar to it but with more modern circumstances in mind.
Blessed Alliance still seems perfectly fine in Modern control decks IMO. In Blue/White Control, it is definitely one of the best removal spells that exists in Modern now.
Well if you noticed in the recent spoiler we are getting a spell that is modern legal and can now "donate" any permanent we control.
now that we are getting a spell that can do this, it opens up a new line of play. my problem is I don't immediately see modern's equivelant of illusions of grandeur for a true 'trix" deck.
closest I have so far is Demonic Pact, but it takes 3 turns before you "donate" it to an opponent who is left with only the you lose the game option.
what else does modern offer that can be donated to an opponent for the win?
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Use Bazaar Trader as an additional source as suggested above.
Just spitballing.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
For decks that would use Harmless offering... maybe also add a playset of Bazaar Trader as additional source of donate effect?
if the viable route to victory was using immortal coil then using bazaar trader might be viable, but the fact that its a creature is its main limitation. he also doesn't pass enchantments.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain me why a gimmicky 3-card combo is more appealing than just running a BRx control-ish deck that uses Harmless Offering + Demonic Pact as an eventual win condition.
That's because you just asked the question. We aren't mind readers.
The question asked was does anything combo with Harmless Offering. Some of us are being constructive and throwing out ideas. Doesn't mean they are GOOD but they are ideas. Relax.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
And nobody is claiming it is something that it isn't. Its not a matter of "will it work", its a matter of can it be assembled and made competitive. (Which I highly doubt as well.) If this was suggested in a Making a Competitive Deck forum/thread it would be out of place. Here it is not. Looking for lines of play is NEVER a wasted exercise. Of course 3 card combos are worse than 2 card combos. No one is arguing that. Suggestions are just that suggestions. Relax and go with it.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
With so many cards counting card types could this be the set where goyf gets reprinted?
highly unlikely.
I sincerely doubt it will ever be printedin an unlimited set. when it was first printed, the idea was that the futureshifted cards were things that would show up in actual sets in the future... but of course that was before it was worth money. they have ZERO integrity for promises that interfere with money
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
Plus I think having more card types would be a negative for Goyf coming back. Goyf would just be too powerful in any Standard format where he could reliably get to a 4/5 or larger. Even a 3/4 is pushing it. Look at how powerful Sylvan Advocate is in the current Standard.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Trust me if I were actually upset I'd be at it long ago =P
It's just not a new discovery either, we had that deck before, though maybe replacing Trader with Offering instead (and run a few Traders as extra copies) would make it better. It certainly makes it faster and less telegraphed and less vulnerable.
No problem.
Don't forget that sometimes old ideas can become "new" ones again if the right cards come out. With that said I don't think we have to worry about this becoming a Tier 1 deck any time in the foreseeable future.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Seems I wasn't the only one to think of this . Cool! Four mana makes it less potent for sure, but the ability for blue to have a way to handle so much with one card is great. Cast triggers, uncounterable spells, chances to two-for-ones...I just hope that cost doesn't take this out of competitive viability.
Seems I wasn't the only one to think of this . Cool! Four mana makes it less potent for sure, but the ability for blue to have a way to handle so much with one card is great. Cast triggers, uncounterable spells, chances to two-for-ones...I just hope that cost doesn't take this out of competitive viability.
I like the cute interaction with geist of saint traft (use this to keep the angel)
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Set in Stone
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Oath of Gideon
4 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
2 Garruk, Wildspeaker
The deck has a tokens/dorks subtheme which are meant to instantly kill the opponent with Garruk's Overrun once Oath of Gideon is in play, obviously helping at the same time to ramp to the Planeswalkers. Tamiyo does seem absolutely nuts with all the tokens, and with Oath of Gideon it ultimates as fast as Nahiti, which can also be relevant.
Would have to test to see if it's any good tho
That said, I'm very excited to get back to brewing. I think I'll be pushing Unsubstantiate before I push for Tamiyo. I think an average creature base with a tempo centric gameplan could have some future, Tamiyo would likely slot into such a deck well - providing CA and tapping blockers. I don't know the best build for her yet, but on paper she fairs well in many different environments. My question is whether she is worth playing over Elspeth or the other walkers in a Bant deck.
There's always... Piracy Charm, I guess. I actually used to run it in a charm-heavy Bant list back in the day, and it always drew gasps.
CG
Then I stuck 4 of them in Bant Eldrazi with 2 Selective Memory. As a Turn 2-3 play, Eternal Scourge already performed well enough (although I did see spot removal aimed at it), but Selective Memory was insane in Bant Eldrazi. Just exile all Eternal Scourges and remaining Selective Memorys from my deck! And then I can cast at least 1 Eternal Scourge right away surprisingly often!
...And the 1-of Scavenging Ooze and Moorland Haunt made the Eternal Scourges true nightmares to deal with.
In the meantime, Take Inventory was surprisingly good in UWR Nahiri, even without self-mill. In long, grindy games, I hit the 3rd Take Inventory fairly often. And topdecking the card and cashing in CA from it immediately felt great.
Card seems insane in a Wilted Abzan style deck. Helps the combo matchup which the deck really struggled against.
T1 Dork, T2 Finks or dork/Voice, then T3 Mindbender seems insane against most decks.
Well if you noticed in the recent spoiler we are getting a spell that is modern legal and can now "donate" any permanent we control.
now that we are getting a spell that can do this, it opens up a new line of play. my problem is I don't immediately see modern's equivelant of illusions of grandeur for a true 'trix" deck.
closest I have so far is Demonic Pact, but it takes 3 turns before you "donate" it to an opponent who is left with only the you lose the game option.
what else does modern offer that can be donated to an opponent for the win?
Maybe some sort of mana denial deck with Aggressive Mining? Granted, you can't cast it until turn 4, which may be too late for the effect, but it is an option. Or, maybe you can find something to work with cards like Steel Golem, Pyromancer's Swath, Abyssal Persecutor, or Immortal Coil (and grave hate). All of them seem pretty janky (including Demonic Pact), but these seem to be the best options I could find.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Blessed Alliance still seems perfectly fine in Modern control decks IMO. In Blue/White Control, it is definitely one of the best removal spells that exists in Modern now.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Abyssal Persecutor
Doesn't seem that good though.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Use Bazaar Trader as an additional source as suggested above.
Just spitballing.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
if the viable route to victory was using immortal coil then using bazaar trader might be viable, but the fact that its a creature is its main limitation. he also doesn't pass enchantments.
That's because you just asked the question. We aren't mind readers.
The question asked was does anything combo with Harmless Offering. Some of us are being constructive and throwing out ideas. Doesn't mean they are GOOD but they are ideas. Relax.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I sincerely doubt it will ever be printedin an unlimited set. when it was first printed, the idea was that the futureshifted cards were things that would show up in actual sets in the future... but of course that was before it was worth money. they have ZERO integrity for promises that interfere with money
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)No problem.
Don't forget that sometimes old ideas can become "new" ones again if the right cards come out. With that said I don't think we have to worry about this becoming a Tier 1 deck any time in the foreseeable future.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I like the cute interaction with geist of saint traft (use this to keep the angel)
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)