For all the people who complained about birthing pod's ban, here you go.
Eh, it might get there alongside Chord of Calling.
Not sure how to feel about it exiling itself, on one hand I don't want to be up against the guy who goes t1 manadork t2 Eldritch Evolution for Eternal Witness getting back Eldritch Evolution, but on the other hand I want to be the guy who goes t1 manadork t2 Eldritch for Witness.
So yeah, I'm both for and against that exiling clause.
For all the people who complained about birthing pod's ban, here you go.
This seems very real, What the hell do they think when they print new cards.
They're thinking that people want to play with strong and interesting cards. They're thinking that they should print these cards because every time a set is considered 'under powered' the entire community cries about it.
Wharf Infiltrator has a whole bunch of abilities. The top half of the text box is more or less Jeskai Elder, and the bottom half is this weird madness-like ability. You need to play lots of creatures if you want to use the third ability frequently, but "blue" and "lots of creatures" is an oxymoron.
Geier Reach Sanitarium is a two-sided Desolate Lighthouse, or more accurately, a Mikokoro, Center of the Sea that adds a discard at the end. Mikokoro hasn't seen much Modern play - the decks that it does see play in are combo decks that use it to keep their hand size high against discard (Ad Nauseam, Time Warp), so the discard on Sanitarium defeats the purpose. It is a colorless discard outlet, but it'll tie up 3 of your lands, so good luck casting madness spells with it.
Eldritch Evolution draws inevitable comparisons to Pod, but you could use Pod repeatedly. You can't use Eldritch Evolution repeatedly - it even exiles itself to get the point across. I can't see this being played over Chord of Calling in Abzan Company - it isn't an instant, and you can't loop it with Eternal Witness. The fact that most of your creatures must be 3CMC or less, as dictated by Collected Company, also means that you're not going to be tutoring for any gigantic monsters in that deck.
Natural Order is the closer comparison. The difference is that Order is used to turn 1-drops into Craterhoof Behemoths, something which Eldritch Evolution is incapable of. What, then is Eldritch Evolution capable of?
The delve and affinity creatures can combo with it to bring out Titans, Wurmcoil Engines, Elesh Norn or Griselbrand. When's the earliest you can do this? For Affinity, getting Frogmite out on turn 1 should be no problem, which you can then Evolve into Wurmcoil Engine on turn 2. However, this means that you're playing green AND Frogmite, two unusual choices for Affinity. Sacrifices would have to be made - for example you might need to cut manlands for Forests, or figure out a way to win when you don't draw Evolution or Frogmite (do you stay in blue so that you have Master of Etherium? Is Ezuri's Brigade playable as a secondary wincon/Evolution target that's hardcastable in a pinch?).
Delve creatures are a bit harder to get out early. T1 fetch, Thought Scour followed by T2 fetch lets you play a 6/7-drop. The problem is again in the mana base - Evolution is green, and the only green delve creature is Hooting Mandrills. All the rest are black. Thought Scour forces you into blue, so the end result is a three-color deck where you need blue on turn 1, black on turn 2 and double green on turn 3.
Overall I don't think Eldritch Evolution is playable. It's kind of like Day's Undoing; when you first read it you go "they printed THAT?!", but in the end you realize that all those seemingly minor drawbacks that they put on the card turned down its power dramatically. I'm still going to have a go at building that green Affinity deck though.
So I know we have been talking Bant Eldrazi with each Eldrazi like thing but Eldritch Evolution seems perfect from my perspective. You can Sacrifice Skyspawner or Matter Reshaper and go get Reality Smasher Turn 3... Hnng.
sultai evolution; thought scour, delve creatures and the usual BGx goodstuff, sac your tasigur to get your singleton elesh norn or griselbrand or whatever. Throw in Unburial Rites with a tiny white splash for good measure
Lupine Prototype seems like he should have a home somewhere but then again why not just play tarmogoyf if you want a big 2drop
Either that, or Rakdos Madness/Hellbent may actually be pushed enough to see play...
I definitely want to play Abzan Eldritch. Play it Unburial Rites style, with Mulch and Grisly Salvage and Seige Rhino...
I hope so. I am a big fan of "every color combination should have a tier 2 deck" plan. Mainly because I'd like any player to be able to say I like playing X types of cards and have there be a deck for them in Modern. Boros and Rakdos have really struggled to make their way as they needed the powerhouse cards in U or G to be made worthwhile. Hopefully they can get enough power drops to make it on their own unique strategy (likewise, UG has almost always struggled you essentially have Scapeshift and thats it and even that has been adapted into Titanshift to avoid the U splash altogether). Madness is a good route for that but we'll see if they make enough payoff (I'm thinking they wont.)
Either that, or Rakdos Madness/Hellbent may actually be pushed enough to see play...
I definitely want to play Abzan Eldritch. Play it Unburial Rites style, with Mulch and Grisly Salvage and Seige Rhino...
I hope so. I am a big fan of "every color combination should have a tier 2 deck" plan. Mainly because I'd like any player to be able to say I like playing X types of cards and have there be a deck for them in Modern. Boros and Rakdos have really struggled to make their way as they needed the powerhouse cards in U or G to be made worthwhile. Hopefully they can get enough power drops to make it on their own unique strategy (likewise, UG has almost always struggled you essentially have Scapeshift and thats it and even that has been adapted into Titanshift to avoid the U splash altogether). Madness is a good route for that but we'll see if they make enough payoff (I'm thinking they wont.)
Agree - don't forget Infect though, it's pretty much straight up UG.
Eldritch Evolution is just a disgusting card. Giving players a supercharged Birthing Pod for one turn is still going to be too much. I see they learned their lesson and added the "Exile" clause, but still going from a Wall of Roots into Siege Rhino or a Birds of Paradise into Magus of the Moon is insane. I can see Kiki-Chord using this to great effect with a Eternal Witness, then Restoration Angel on the Eternal Witness for value, then turning the Ewit into Kiki-Jiki for the win. I'm still unsure how much the Sorcery speed will affect Abzan Companies decision to run it, but it will for sure spawn some toolbox type decks in the format. Abzan Company has already showed just how capable a toolbox deck is with only running 4 tutors.
Eldritch Evolution is just a disgusting card. Giving players a supercharged Birthing Pod for one turn is still going to be too much. I see they learned their lesson and added the "Exile" clause, but still going from a Wall of Roots into Siege Rhino or a Birds of Paradise into Magus of the Moon is insane. I can see Kiki-Chord using this to great effect with a Eternal Witness, then Restoration Angel on the Eternal Witness for value, then turning the Ewit into Kiki-Jiki for the win. I'm still unsure how much the Sorcery speed will affect Abzan Companies decision to run it, but it will for sure spawn some toolbox type decks in the format. Abzan Company has already showed just how capable a toolbox deck is with only running 4 tutors.
I agree that the card is VERY powerful, but if it becomes prevalent in the format then things like Remand just get that much better. Pod was so ridiculously busted because it was an uncounterable repeatable ability. This card is neither of those things - it's at sorcery speed - but they made the tutor ability a bit stronger. Seems fair.
I think the card is strong, but likely not better than Chord of calling. Getting blown out by any counterspell at all is a pretty huge risk. It is also less flexible since you can't cast it into an empty board. Sorcery speed makes you extra vulnerable to countermagic, but the card does have enough upside to make it worth testing.
I look forward to playing with Eldritch Evolution, but chord will likely still be better. However, it does compliment chord in decks that don't want the density needed for company, so green decks might get a third enabler for mid-range creature decks which will offer greater diversity in builds.
My initial reaction is that it is the weakest of the 3 (chord, coco, evol).
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Modern Decks
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Eldritch Evolution is just a disgusting card. Giving players a supercharged Birthing Pod for one turn is still going to be too much. I see they learned their lesson and added the "Exile" clause, but still going from a Wall of Roots into Siege Rhino or a Birds of Paradise into Magus of the Moon is insane. I can see Kiki-Chord using this to great effect with a Eternal Witness, then Restoration Angel on the Eternal Witness for value, then turning the Ewit into Kiki-Jiki for the win. I'm still unsure how much the Sorcery speed will affect Abzan Companies decision to run it, but it will for sure spawn some toolbox type decks in the format. Abzan Company has already showed just how capable a toolbox deck is with only running 4 tutors.
Any Christmas Scenario that uses Allosaurus Rider gets a 10+1/10+1 from me.
In other news, we get a Hymn effect in Modern. Personally I think it's been long overdue (and they did it in a way that makes it "modern fair" I think).
sultai evolution; thought scour, delve creatures and the usual BGx goodstuff, sac your tasigur to get your singleton elesh norn or griselbrand or whatever. Throw in Unburial Rites with a tiny white splash for good measure
Lupine Prototype seems like he should have a home somewhere but then again why not just play tarmogoyf if you want a big 2drop
because you can play both.
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Eldritch Evolution is just a disgusting card. Giving players a supercharged Birthing Pod for one turn is still going to be too much. I see they learned their lesson and added the "Exile" clause, but still going from a Wall of Roots into Siege Rhino or a Birds of Paradise into Magus of the Moon is insane. I can see Kiki-Chord using this to great effect with a Eternal Witness, then Restoration Angel on the Eternal Witness for value, then turning the Ewit into Kiki-Jiki for the win. I'm still unsure how much the Sorcery speed will affect Abzan Companies decision to run it, but it will for sure spawn some toolbox type decks in the format. Abzan Company has already showed just how capable a toolbox deck is with only running 4 tutors.
Any Christmas Scenario that uses Allosaurus Rider gets a 10+1/10+1 from me.
In other news, we get a Hymn effect in Modern. Personally I think it's been long overdue (and they did it in a way that makes it "modern fair" I think).
8 Rack had christmas come early this year.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
sultai evolution; thought scour, delve creatures and the usual BGx goodstuff, sac your tasigur to get your singleton elesh norn or griselbrand or whatever. Throw in Unburial Rites with a tiny white splash for good measure
Lupine Prototype seems like he should have a home somewhere but then again why not just play tarmogoyf if you want a big 2drop
because you can play both.
You'd add tasigur or angler before cyberwolf though
Whispers of Emrakul makes me want to brew BUG Delver in Modern. TS, Whispers, Decay, 'Goyf, Thought Scour, Zombie Fish... could there be something? No Bolt of course, but AD and Disfigure are still both good cards.
Maybe the delve creatures will also enable you to play emergecreatures? Chest-bursting from the zombie fish all alien style would be pretty sweet in BUG.
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Modern Decks
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eldricht evolution and allosaurus rider may permit to create a combo deck faster than anything we've ever seen in modern.
You can tutor allosaurus with the green pact, so you basically have 8 allausorus.
T1 forest + any accelerator
T2 land allausorus eldricht evolution can search for anything than would make you win.
It's possible to make a t1 version but is it even necessary?
That still requires a lot of cards to get there.
Dork, 2 lands, rider, evolution and 2 green cards to exile... Your threat must also have haste or it is vulnerable to sorcery speed removal on your opponents turn. Still seems extremely strong if you draw nut hands (which that is a perfect 7/8 cards on the play 7/9 on the draw)
eldricht evolution and allosaurus rider may permit to create a combo deck faster than anything we've ever seen in modern.
You can tutor allosaurus with the green pact, so you basically have 8 allausorus.
T1 forest + any accelerator
T2 land allausorus eldricht evolution can search for anything than would make you win.
It's possible to make a t1 version but is it even necessary?
A control version going to search for grisel T2, then attack/draw to cast a second evolution searching for borborigmos to close the game seems powerful.
The only way to win from this point is via Griselbrand, Shoals and Borbor for the win. However, this is so inconsistent and wonky, I would never run this in the Shoal version. Furthermore, it takes up way to many slots, which is also a huge problem. Besides this, Grisel has no haste, and Evolution costs GG, so you need to run Morphose (if you want to use it to cheat in Borbor) which is really crappy.
Besides Griselbrand Combo, there is no up to 9 Mana creature which would win you the game on that spot. Blightsteel Colossus would be the only one, and he costs 11.
Greetings,
Kahtal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Eternal Scourge is another Misthollow Griffin, except that it exiles itself if your opponent tries to kill it, so it goes into exile instead of the graveyard. Bad news: it also exiles itself if your opponent aims non-lethal spells at it. It's more of a gimmick card than anything else. The Food Chain players in Legacy have another combo creature they could use, not that it's a good deck to begin with.
Lupine Prototype is another Myr Superion. It's also a gimmick card. Hopefully it won't be bugged on MTGO "Please don't attack with Lupine Prototype if you and your opponent have at least one card in your respective hands."
I'm not sold on Whispers of Emrakul. There have been other cards that discard two cards from your opponent's hand for 2 mana (Wrench Mind, Rise // Fall) - yes, sometimes they don't get two cards, but that's true of Whispers too. If you can get four cards into your graveyard, you can cast Tasigur's Cruelty for two mana, which discards as many cards as Whispers, just not at random. Get five cards into your graveyard (simulating delirium with 2 fetchlands) and Cruelty is 2 discards for B - clearly a very good rate, yet nobody plays it.
The random clause is, what makes Whispers remotely playable. Otherwise, both Wrench Mind and Rise//Fall are "strictly" better.
However, the problem is Delirium. People are saying, that it is so super easy to enable, but it is not. This is not Delve, where you don't care WHAT cards land in YOUR graveyard. It will likely take you till turn 3 or 4 to get reliable Delirium active and than the card lost to much value already.
Hence: Looks good, is bad.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
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This seems very real, What the hell do they think when they print new cards.
Eh, it might get there alongside Chord of Calling.
Not sure how to feel about it exiling itself, on one hand I don't want to be up against the guy who goes t1 manadork t2 Eldritch Evolution for Eternal Witness getting back Eldritch Evolution, but on the other hand I want to be the guy who goes t1 manadork t2 Eldritch for Witness.
So yeah, I'm both for and against that exiling clause.
They're thinking that people want to play with strong and interesting cards. They're thinking that they should print these cards because every time a set is considered 'under powered' the entire community cries about it.
Geier Reach Sanitarium is a two-sided Desolate Lighthouse, or more accurately, a Mikokoro, Center of the Sea that adds a discard at the end. Mikokoro hasn't seen much Modern play - the decks that it does see play in are combo decks that use it to keep their hand size high against discard (Ad Nauseam, Time Warp), so the discard on Sanitarium defeats the purpose. It is a colorless discard outlet, but it'll tie up 3 of your lands, so good luck casting madness spells with it.
Eldritch Evolution draws inevitable comparisons to Pod, but you could use Pod repeatedly. You can't use Eldritch Evolution repeatedly - it even exiles itself to get the point across. I can't see this being played over Chord of Calling in Abzan Company - it isn't an instant, and you can't loop it with Eternal Witness. The fact that most of your creatures must be 3CMC or less, as dictated by Collected Company, also means that you're not going to be tutoring for any gigantic monsters in that deck.
Natural Order is the closer comparison. The difference is that Order is used to turn 1-drops into Craterhoof Behemoths, something which Eldritch Evolution is incapable of. What, then is Eldritch Evolution capable of?
The delve and affinity creatures can combo with it to bring out Titans, Wurmcoil Engines, Elesh Norn or Griselbrand. When's the earliest you can do this? For Affinity, getting Frogmite out on turn 1 should be no problem, which you can then Evolve into Wurmcoil Engine on turn 2. However, this means that you're playing green AND Frogmite, two unusual choices for Affinity. Sacrifices would have to be made - for example you might need to cut manlands for Forests, or figure out a way to win when you don't draw Evolution or Frogmite (do you stay in blue so that you have Master of Etherium? Is Ezuri's Brigade playable as a secondary wincon/Evolution target that's hardcastable in a pinch?).
Delve creatures are a bit harder to get out early. T1 fetch, Thought Scour followed by T2 fetch lets you play a 6/7-drop. The problem is again in the mana base - Evolution is green, and the only green delve creature is Hooting Mandrills. All the rest are black. Thought Scour forces you into blue, so the end result is a three-color deck where you need blue on turn 1, black on turn 2 and double green on turn 3.
Overall I don't think Eldritch Evolution is playable. It's kind of like Day's Undoing; when you first read it you go "they printed THAT?!", but in the end you realize that all those seemingly minor drawbacks that they put on the card turned down its power dramatically. I'm still going to have a go at building that green Affinity deck though.
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Big Johnny.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I definitely want to play Abzan Eldritch. Play it Unburial Rites style, with Mulch and Grisly Salvage and Seige Rhino...
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Lupine Prototype seems like he should have a home somewhere but then again why not just play tarmogoyf if you want a big 2drop
I hope so. I am a big fan of "every color combination should have a tier 2 deck" plan. Mainly because I'd like any player to be able to say I like playing X types of cards and have there be a deck for them in Modern. Boros and Rakdos have really struggled to make their way as they needed the powerhouse cards in U or G to be made worthwhile. Hopefully they can get enough power drops to make it on their own unique strategy (likewise, UG has almost always struggled you essentially have Scapeshift and thats it and even that has been adapted into Titanshift to avoid the U splash altogether). Madness is a good route for that but we'll see if they make enough payoff (I'm thinking they wont.)
Agree - don't forget Infect though, it's pretty much straight up UG.
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StaffThat aside, my magical christmasland is going to be:
T1 Land > Birds of Paradise
T2 Land > Exile 2 cards to cast Allosaurus Rider > cast Eldritch Evolution getting Iona, Shield of Emeria or Inkwell Leviathan.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I agree that the card is VERY powerful, but if it becomes prevalent in the format then things like Remand just get that much better. Pod was so ridiculously busted because it was an uncounterable repeatable ability. This card is neither of those things - it's at sorcery speed - but they made the tutor ability a bit stronger. Seems fair.
I look forward to playing with Eldritch Evolution, but chord will likely still be better. However, it does compliment chord in decks that don't want the density needed for company, so green decks might get a third enabler for mid-range creature decks which will offer greater diversity in builds.
My initial reaction is that it is the weakest of the 3 (chord, coco, evol).
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Any Christmas Scenario that uses Allosaurus Rider gets a 10+1/10+1 from me.
In other news, we get a Hymn effect in Modern. Personally I think it's been long overdue (and they did it in a way that makes it "modern fair" I think).
because you can play both.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
8 Rack had christmas come early this year.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
You'd add tasigur or angler before cyberwolf though
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Cubetutor Link
That still requires a lot of cards to get there.
Dork, 2 lands, rider, evolution and 2 green cards to exile... Your threat must also have haste or it is vulnerable to sorcery speed removal on your opponents turn. Still seems extremely strong if you draw nut hands (which that is a perfect 7/8 cards on the play 7/9 on the draw)
The only way to win from this point is via Griselbrand, Shoals and Borbor for the win. However, this is so inconsistent and wonky, I would never run this in the Shoal version. Furthermore, it takes up way to many slots, which is also a huge problem. Besides this, Grisel has no haste, and Evolution costs GG, so you need to run Morphose (if you want to use it to cheat in Borbor) which is really crappy.
Besides Griselbrand Combo, there is no up to 9 Mana creature which would win you the game on that spot. Blightsteel Colossus would be the only one, and he costs 11.
Greetings,
Kahtal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Lupine Prototype is another Myr Superion. It's also a gimmick card. Hopefully it won't be bugged on MTGO
I'm not sold on Whispers of Emrakul. There have been other cards that discard two cards from your opponent's hand for 2 mana (Wrench Mind, Rise // Fall) - yes, sometimes they don't get two cards, but that's true of Whispers too. If you can get four cards into your graveyard, you can cast Tasigur's Cruelty for two mana, which discards as many cards as Whispers, just not at random. Get five cards into your graveyard (simulating delirium with 2 fetchlands) and Cruelty is 2 discards for B - clearly a very good rate, yet nobody plays it.
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Big Johnny.
However, the problem is Delirium. People are saying, that it is so super easy to enable, but it is not. This is not Delve, where you don't care WHAT cards land in YOUR graveyard. It will likely take you till turn 3 or 4 to get reliable Delirium active and than the card lost to much value already.
Hence: Looks good, is bad.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)