I know this sounds like a simple question but I'm making a deck that uses a combo or two to create either 20-30 mana or simply infinite mana and I want to keep black and red spells out of it. Preferably I'd be using a green or colorless spell to win the game since that's what color mana I'm making most of the time (karametra's acolyte/nykthos etc). The deck may also be blue for tap manipulation purposes. So is there a blue (x) spell I can spend the immense mana on to mill the opponent's entire library? Or any sort of green spell that would similarly end the game? I really don't want to resort to a red (x) damage spell or black drain (x) life clone because color fixing would become a problem but so far all I can find are hydras and they're easy to exile or kill. Hooded hydra is cool because it turns into snakes but path to exile is the most used nonland card in modern. So are there any obscure ways to use green, blue, or colorless spells or permanents to defeat the opponent if I'm sitting on an enormous pile of mana?
I know this sounds like a simple question but I'm making a deck that uses a combo or two to create either 20-30 mana or simply infinite mana and I want to keep black and red spells out of it. Preferably I'd be using a green or colorless spell to win the game since that's what color mana I'm making most of the time (karametra's acolyte/nykthos etc). The deck may also be blue for tap manipulation purposes. So is there a blue (x) spell I can spend the immense mana on to mill the opponent's entire library? Or any sort of green spell that would similarly end the game? I really don't want to resort to a red (x) damage spell or black drain (x) life clone because color fixing would become a problem but so far all I can find are hydras and they're easy to exile or kill. Hooded hydra is cool because it turns into snakes but path to exile is the most used nonland card in modern. So are there any obscure ways to use green, blue, or colorless spells or permanents to defeat the opponent if I'm sitting on an enormous pile of mana?
The best blue spell is Blue Sun's Zenith. You could go with Helix Pinnacle in green if you can afford to wait until the beginning of your turn.
You could also use Jinxed Choker if you are willing to wait until your opponent's upkeep. This is easier to stop than the 2 above though.
I'll give the same response I generally give to questions like this:
What's the decklist? It's impossible to give informed advice without the context surrounding the combo. There isn't a single successful combo deck in Modern where its combo win condition doesn't exist as part of that larger context. See Abzan Company, where the creatures form a powerful midrange and even anti-aggro option. Or Ad Nauseam, where the kill cards are based on the engine (Conflagrate, Lightning Storm, Laboratory Maniac).
Without knowing anything at all about the decklist, it's hard to go wrong with Emrakul.
Goblin Cannon is a good one. You can activate it many times in a row with your tons of mana, then let all the triggers resolve and it won't matter that your cannon has blown itself up.
Plus the idea of funneling your vast stores of magic power through a rickety goblin howitzer that explodes after it finishes firing off a barrage... its got the flavor, man.
I'll give the same response I generally give to questions like this:
What's the decklist? It's impossible to give informed advice without the context surrounding the combo. There isn't a single successful combo deck in Modern where its combo win condition doesn't exist as part of that larger context. See Abzan Company, where the creatures form a powerful midrange and even anti-aggro option. Or Ad Nauseam, where the kill cards are based on the engine (Conflagrate, Lightning Storm, Laboratory Maniac).
Without knowing anything at all about the decklist, it's hard to go wrong with Emrakul.
He mentions it in the OP. Green based devotion decks generate mana with Nykthos, Shrine to Nix and cards that can untap lands.
Stroke of Genius > Blue Sun Zenith
Capsize + buyback is great because it's stellar on it's own even without oodles of mana. With infinite your opponents scoop.
I'll give the same response I generally give to questions like this:
What's the decklist? It's impossible to give informed advice without the context surrounding the combo. There isn't a single successful combo deck in Modern where its combo win condition doesn't exist as part of that larger context. See Abzan Company, where the creatures form a powerful midrange and even anti-aggro option. Or Ad Nauseam, where the kill cards are based on the engine (Conflagrate, Lightning Storm, Laboratory Maniac).
Without knowing anything at all about the decklist, it's hard to go wrong with Emrakul.
He mentions it in the OP. Green based devotion decks generate mana with Nykthos, Shrine to Nix and cards that can untap lands.
He doesn't mention the decklist. He just says what the deck does. Most Nykthos decks I've seen are winning on T&N, Genesis Wave, Craterhoof/Primal, etc. But those choices are influenced by the rest of the decklist, not just the general concept of a Nykthos ramp deck.
Stroke of Genius > Blue Sun Zenith
Capsize + buyback is great because it's stellar on it's own even without oodles of mana. With infinite your opponents scoop.
Those are fantastic options. However, they are not Modern Legal so really don't fit with this thread.
OMG Helix Pinacle is some seriously funny crap dude, loooool. That is so perfect! "If you get 100 counters just freaking end it already and btw, shroud" lol. It's even funnier when you realize what I titled this thread by sheer coincidence. That's definitely going in there. Blue Sun's Zenith looks perfect too. I still haven't finalized the deck list or colors. Green-red with devotion seems great, especially because of the always hated zhur-taa druid and burning-tree emissary. Throw in a few chained together tap manipulation effects and you get to 20 and can fry your opponent with banefire or burn from within. But that's a hit or miss glass cannon and there are no infinite combos. It's just ramp and burn.
There's another way I can build it with untapping loops and throw pristine talisman in and hope they forfeit. It has a glaring weakness in that isochron scepter can't have hidden strings put on it because it's a sorcery though. Every infinite tapping/untapping loop needs 3 cards but it's not very important which 3 so it might hold up against control. Almost every combo results in infinite green, blue, or colorless mana and your deck might as well be 20 cards big because you throw in Cerulean Wisps and Refocus and the other billion identical clones of them and basically draw until you hit the cards you need for the combo. I really like that one because it can have mana leak/deprive/negate in it too.
Or I can go extremely artifact heavy and try for more complicated loops with artifact-specific untapping and "artifact only" mana generation but it's slower and I can't find a decent win condition. Maybe razor tip whip? It's by far the most unstoppable though and I like astral cornucopia and everflowing chalice. There are some good artifact ETB triggers too.
I'll try and built one example of each deck concept and test them to see what's the best.
I would Check out Cudbros' Green Devotion walker deck which uses an infinite loop (revolves around cloudstone curio and planeswalkers) to create a squillion mana and end the game.
There are plenty of giant green creatures you could use. Or simply drop emakrul
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
URB Grixis Delver URB
WUB Ad Nauseam WUB
(On Lantern Control)"A guy who literally just sits there and mills cards he doesn't like from your library while he slowly, slowly kills you this way."
"If a person's profile includes anime or My Little Pony, feel free to ignore everything they say."
Tooth and Nail is a pretty proved big-mana green wincon. Just throw in some other large threats like Emrakul + Xenagos, or pull the Primetimes from our deck, etc...
Lets just try and finish this off all at once. Here's a list of all of the Green (or blue) X spells and (large ones) that can just outright win the game:
I used Squall Line as win-con in my elves deck before Shaman of the Pack came out in Origins. See deck. Squal Line is non-targeted direct damage in Green.
This is why ktkenshinx is correct in asking for a decklist. It really depends on what you are working with in your 75.
I used Squall Line as win-con in my elves deck before Shaman of the Pack came out in Origins. See deck. Squal Line is non-targeted direct damage in Green.
This is why ktkenshinx is correct in asking for a decklist. It really depends on what you are working with in your 75.
I just assume most of the time a symetrical effect like that is going to kill both of you, or even if you survive they slip in a Bolt and take you down as well. It 100% as it's uses for sure, but in a vacuum I'd go with other options before venturing into the Squall Line sort of cards.
Goblin Cannon is a good one. You can activate it many times in a row with your tons of mana, then let all the triggers resolve and it won't matter that your cannon has blown itself up.
Plus the idea of funneling your vast stores of magic power through a rickety goblin howitzer that explodes after it finishes firing off a barrage... its got the flavor, man.
Goblin Cannon doesn't cause any triggers by itself.
Worth nothing re Helix Pinnacle that it adds to devotion (and has shroud, so is reasonably safe to play early). That makes it interesting for a Nykthos based deck. Granted the card is still slower than a lot of options.
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When you peer long enough through the depths, the depths peer also through you.
Blue Sun's Zenith to mill your opponent
You could also use Jinxed Choker if you are willing to wait until your opponent's upkeep. This is easier to stop than the 2 above though.
What's the decklist? It's impossible to give informed advice without the context surrounding the combo. There isn't a single successful combo deck in Modern where its combo win condition doesn't exist as part of that larger context. See Abzan Company, where the creatures form a powerful midrange and even anti-aggro option. Or Ad Nauseam, where the kill cards are based on the engine (Conflagrate, Lightning Storm, Laboratory Maniac).
Without knowing anything at all about the decklist, it's hard to go wrong with Emrakul.
Plus the idea of funneling your vast stores of magic power through a rickety goblin howitzer that explodes after it finishes firing off a barrage... its got the flavor, man.
Why not? Just tie the game!
UR Niv-Mizzet, The Firemind
WUR Narset's Coinflip Casino
Modern
UB Mill
He mentions it in the OP. Green based devotion decks generate mana with Nykthos, Shrine to Nix and cards that can untap lands.
Capsize + buyback is great because it's stellar on it's own even without oodles of mana. With infinite your opponents scoop.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
He doesn't mention the decklist. He just says what the deck does. Most Nykthos decks I've seen are winning on T&N, Genesis Wave, Craterhoof/Primal, etc. But those choices are influenced by the rest of the decklist, not just the general concept of a Nykthos ramp deck.
There's another way I can build it with untapping loops and throw pristine talisman in and hope they forfeit. It has a glaring weakness in that isochron scepter can't have hidden strings put on it because it's a sorcery though. Every infinite tapping/untapping loop needs 3 cards but it's not very important which 3 so it might hold up against control. Almost every combo results in infinite green, blue, or colorless mana and your deck might as well be 20 cards big because you throw in Cerulean Wisps and Refocus and the other billion identical clones of them and basically draw until you hit the cards you need for the combo. I really like that one because it can have mana leak/deprive/negate in it too.
Or I can go extremely artifact heavy and try for more complicated loops with artifact-specific untapping and "artifact only" mana generation but it's slower and I can't find a decent win condition. Maybe razor tip whip? It's by far the most unstoppable though and I like astral cornucopia and everflowing chalice. There are some good artifact ETB triggers too.
I'll try and built one example of each deck concept and test them to see what's the best.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Linky
Look under the Devotion archetypes for Combo Devotion
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
The answer to that question is always hurricane.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
- Animist's Awakening: You put all the lands in your deck into play untapped. You can probably win from there.
- Biomass Mutation: Even your Arbor Elf becomes huge.
- Chord of Calling/Weird Harvest: Search out and play something like Emrakul.
- Endless Swarm: Death by snakes?
- Gelatinous Genesis: 10 10/10 oozes would be quite hard to deal with.
- Genesis Wave: Already said, but you can flip your deck into play. How to win from there is up to you, lots of possibilities.
- Hurricane/Squall Line: Lol no.
- Praetor's Counsel: Can usually win from it.
- Primal Surge: Like Genesis Wave if you build your deck right.
- Supply: Go really wide, but requires white.
- Blue Sun's Zenith/Skyscribing: Draw your deck and make them draw theirs
- Enter the Infinite: You're gonna win.
- Epiphany at the Drownyard: Half the cards in your deck means you're probably going to win.
- Increasing Confusion: Pretty much guaranteed to mill their deck.
- Time Stretch: You can probably in with 2 extra turns
- Omniscience
I think that's all of them, or at least the bulk of them.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I used Squall Line as win-con in my elves deck before Shaman of the Pack came out in Origins. See deck. Squal Line is non-targeted direct damage in Green.
This is why ktkenshinx is correct in asking for a decklist. It really depends on what you are working with in your 75.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Goblin Cannon doesn't cause any triggers by itself.
Edit
Mindswipe can be fun too