Duskwatch Recruiter has been tearing it up in standard since his human side gives card adv. While Duskwatch Recruiter has a bear body he does turn into a 3/3 that makes creatures cheaper. Can this card see play in a chord of calling style deck that might want more CA?
I've been testing it in the sideboard for Elves and it has been good in slow grindy match ups. I would not be surprised if it got consideration in Kiki Chord, but at the same time, they already have so much card advantage it almost seems not worth it.
I mean Bolt is still a thing. In modern most targets do stuff without the need to activate, like entering effects. Since its a cost, you have to pay to hit it and pay to activate. Thats alot of resources for a smaller effect. Standard everythings bloated, giving it a chance to be better. In modern thats a 4-6 mana to hit him, 7-9 mana to hit and activate. Big zoo struggles to even get around 5 a turn honestly. Id have to invest all that mana just to be robbed the mana by a bolt.
Yes I know, everything dies to removal, but if a reclaimation sage enters, thats at least paraity if it dies to removal. They spent a card, and so did I, and I still got an effect. Its just not mana efficient nor card advantage, unless you trigger it once, but even then, its not mana efficient.
I have been bringing it in against the straight hard control decks in my meta. It's definitely a meta choice, but it works well for me. If I ever hit five mana, I can just play him out and leave up activation mana. Then I at least draw a real threat. If they don't kill him, I draw a card, possibly activate in response to the transform and play spells cheap.
I mean Bolt is still a thing. In modern most targets do stuff without the need to activate, like entering effects. Since its a cost, you have to pay to hit it and pay to activate. Thats alot of resources for a smaller effect. Standard everythings bloated, giving it a chance to be better. In modern thats a 4-6 mana to hit him, 7-9 mana to hit and activate. Big zoo struggles to even get around 5 a turn honestly. Id have to invest all that mana just to be robbed the mana by a bolt.
Yes I know, everything dies to removal, but if a reclaimation sage enters, thats at least paraity if it dies to removal. They spent a card, and so did I, and I still got an effect. Its just not mana efficient nor card advantage, unless you trigger it once, but even then, its not mana efficient.
"Dying to removal" hasn't stopped many other creatures who produce card adv in this format. This card is also a card that you would bring in from the sideboard.
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I feel like it could do well in something like an Elves deck. It helps push the critical mass of dudes that is the deck's lynchpin, plus that deck has mana to burn. ChannelFireball posted this video series testing Recruiter in Elves, and it looked pretty solid.
I mean Bolt is still a thing. In modern most targets do stuff without the need to activate, like entering effects. Since its a cost, you have to pay to hit it and pay to activate. Thats alot of resources for a smaller effect. Standard everythings bloated, giving it a chance to be better. In modern thats a 4-6 mana to hit him, 7-9 mana to hit and activate. Big zoo struggles to even get around 5 a turn honestly. Id have to invest all that mana just to be robbed the mana by a bolt.
Yes I know, everything dies to removal, but if a reclaimation sage enters, thats at least paraity if it dies to removal. They spent a card, and so did I, and I still got an effect. Its just not mana efficient nor card advantage, unless you trigger it once, but even then, its not mana efficient.
"Dying to removal" hasn't stopped many other creatures who produce card adv in this format. This card is also a card that you would bring in from the sideboard.
I mean, sure. But at 3 mana it starts becoming a factor. And theres the whole "high risk-reward" deal. This isnt like Knight of the Rel, which also dies to removal. Its high risk medium reward, tops.
I mean, sure. But at 3 mana it starts becoming a factor. And theres the whole "high risk-reward" deal. This isnt like Knight of the Rel, which also dies to removal. Its high risk medium reward, tops.
I've tried Duskwatch Recruiter in Melira Company. I'm surprised how often its ability whiffs in a 29-creature deck (counting Duskwatch). I whiff at least a third of the time.
I mean, sure. But at 3 mana it starts becoming a factor. And theres the whole "high risk-reward" deal. This isnt like Knight of the Rel, which also dies to removal. Its high risk medium reward, tops.
I mean Bolt is still a thing. In modern most targets do stuff without the need to activate, like entering effects. Since its a cost, you have to pay to hit it and pay to activate. Thats alot of resources for a smaller effect. Standard everythings bloated, giving it a chance to be better. In modern thats a 4-6 mana to hit him, 7-9 mana to hit and activate. Big zoo struggles to even get around 5 a turn honestly. Id have to invest all that mana just to be robbed the mana by a bolt.
Yes I know, everything dies to removal, but if a reclaimation sage enters, thats at least paraity if it dies to removal. They spent a card, and so did I, and I still got an effect. Its just not mana efficient nor card advantage, unless you trigger it once, but even then, its not mana efficient.
"Dying to removal" hasn't stopped many other creatures who produce card adv in this format. This card is also a card that you would bring in from the sideboard.
I mean, sure. But at 3 mana it starts becoming a factor. And theres the whole "high risk-reward" deal. This isnt like Knight of the Rel, which also dies to removal. Its high risk medium reward, tops.
I agree with you in normal decks but the decks I listed run tons of mana dorks. I see him as a nice mana sink that if he flips he can get annoying real fast.
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I guess he's worth a try in some decks but there are probably better options in card advantage than it.
You say there are better options yet you list none. Green creatures that give repeat card adv for 2 mana are very rare. Fauna Shaman is the only other card to do this that's efficient
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I guess he's worth a try in some decks but there are probably better options in card advantage than it.
You say there are better options yet you list none. Green creatures that give repeat card adv for 2 mana are very rare. Fauna Shaman is the only other card to do this that's efficient
Shauna Shaman is one but you also have Oath of Nissa (cheaper), Traverse the Ulvenwald. The last two aren't creatures but can do their job more mana efficient or more reliably than Duskwatch Recruiter but I'm not saying he's a bad card.
Oath of Nissa/Traverse are not creatures and their effects are temp. Traverse takes too long to setup in chord/company decks (which is what this thread talks about) and Oath is just w/e.
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I'm not sure Recruiter fills key gaps in these strategies. Kiki Chord derives card advantage from Witness and Chord loops, Wall of Omens, Reveillark, and Angel bouncing all three of those creatures. Chord has existing mana-sinks in Chord loops, Township, P&K plus Angel, and others. Abzan Company also has Witness, but with the juicier target of Company over just Chord. Townships are also more common in Abzan Company than Kiki Chord, fulfilling the mana-sink role.
Given all these existing outlets, Recruiter probably doesn't have a home in either deck in the average metagame. But I could see a singleton Recruiter showing up in sideboards or even maindecks in particularly grindy metagames.
I'd be very surprised if this guy was Modern playable in terms of competitive play. Any card legal in the format is "playable" at some level, but I'm assuming all answers should be centered around competitive play for these forums.
His effect is somewhat decent. It's a repeatable half of a Collected Company. You see half the cards and get 1 instead of 2. Seems ok at first glance, but it's probably just standard-level powerful. Looking for 1 creature in 3 cards has a higher miss rate than 2 creatures in 6 cards. I know that the numbers are direct multiples on each, but the way a randomized deck looks means your chances to see certain card types get closer to exponentially higher, instead of multiplicatively higher, with more cards seen.
So you need to spend 3 mana on something that in reality is actually about a third of a Collected Company even though on the face it looks like it's half. It's mitigated by the fact that it's repeatable, but one of the tricky things is that your opponent can control whether or not you get access to that effect when you untap. That's good against some decks but bad against others, like Jeskai, which is happy just playing draw-go for a bit.
And of course it fails the largest creature test in Modern. Does it have an immediate effect or otherwise "beat" removal due to mana cost or other ability? A 1-mana play that doesn't do anything until you untap is fine because you're at parity on cards if it dies to bolt. A 2-mana creature that needs to untap for an effect loses the bolt test but is at parity against Abrupt Decay, etc.
Additionally, I'd assume that the decks you want to play him in will also have 3-drops or things you want to do on turn 3 other than hold this up. That means he's likely best played turn 5 or later, and when you're talking about a turn 5 play it needs to be extraordinary. This isn't.
I'm not sure Recruiter fills key gaps in these strategies. Kiki Chord derives card advantage from Witness and Chord loops, Wall of Omens, Reveillark, and Angel bouncing all three of those creatures. Chord has existing mana-sinks in Chord loops, Township, P&K plus Angel, and others. Abzan Company also has Witness, but with the juicier target of Company over just Chord. Townships are also more common in Abzan Company than Kiki Chord, fulfilling the mana-sink role.
Given all these existing outlets, Recruiter probably doesn't have a home in either deck in the average metagame. But I could see a singleton Recruiter showing up in sideboards or even maindecks in particularly grindy metagames.
I'm speaking more for sideboard
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IMO he's playable in the sideboard of GW hatebears: the deck has a very high creature density, it overloads bolt anyway (sooooooo many bolt targets), it can cheat it out with aether vial and activate immediately, it has toolboxy creatures to dig for and it doesn't have any other good ways to generate CA so struggles against grindy decks if the game goes long. I tested it in the deck and I tought it was pretty good.
IMO he's playable in the sideboard of GW hatebears: the deck has a very high creature density, it overloads bolt anyway (sooooooo many bolt targets), it can cheat it out with aether vial and activate immediately, it has toolboxy creatures to dig for and it doesn't have any other good ways to generate CA so struggles against grindy decks if the game goes long. I tested it in the deck and I tought it was pretty good.
This makes sense to me. Do you run spellskite for bolt protection?
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I've tested in both Abzan Company and Kiki Chord variants and just found his activation cost to be too slow and backside rarely had an impact on a game. Play more Fauna Shaman.
I've tested in both Abzan Company and Kiki Chord variants and just found his activation cost to be too slow and backside rarely had an impact on a game. Play more Fauna Shaman.
IMO he's playable in the sideboard of GW hatebears: the deck has a very high creature density, it overloads bolt anyway (sooooooo many bolt targets), it can cheat it out with aether vial and activate immediately, it has toolboxy creatures to dig for and it doesn't have any other good ways to generate CA so struggles against grindy decks if the game goes long. I tested it in the deck and I tought it was pretty good.
This makes sense to me. Do you run spellskite for bolt protection?
No, not really. If I can drop the recruiter from a vial and immediately activate it it's done its job even if it gets bolted right after.
We've been trying to get Duskwatch to work in Pili + Grand Chord thread. It's a Pili-Pala + Grand Architect engine that often has Chord and/or Company. Duskwatch, an Eldrazi, BSZ or a 2-drop becomes the mana dump. It's a cool list with a lot of synergies, however, it's overshadowed by Abzan company. Check it out.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I'm thinking either a Big Zoo deck (like the Knight of the Reliquary/Retreat to Coralhelm combo decks or the classic Big Zoo decks with Naya Company) or in Kiki Chord.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
Yes I know, everything dies to removal, but if a reclaimation sage enters, thats at least paraity if it dies to removal. They spent a card, and so did I, and I still got an effect. Its just not mana efficient nor card advantage, unless you trigger it once, but even then, its not mana efficient.
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
"Dying to removal" hasn't stopped many other creatures who produce card adv in this format. This card is also a card that you would bring in from the sideboard.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I mean, sure. But at 3 mana it starts becoming a factor. And theres the whole "high risk-reward" deal. This isnt like Knight of the Rel, which also dies to removal. Its high risk medium reward, tops.
It's a 2 drop.
Lantern meant the activation cost is 3.
I agree with you in normal decks but the decks I listed run tons of mana dorks. I see him as a nice mana sink that if he flips he can get annoying real fast.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
You say there are better options yet you list none. Green creatures that give repeat card adv for 2 mana are very rare. Fauna Shaman is the only other card to do this that's efficient
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Oath of Nissa/Traverse are not creatures and their effects are temp. Traverse takes too long to setup in chord/company decks (which is what this thread talks about) and Oath is just w/e.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Given all these existing outlets, Recruiter probably doesn't have a home in either deck in the average metagame. But I could see a singleton Recruiter showing up in sideboards or even maindecks in particularly grindy metagames.
His effect is somewhat decent. It's a repeatable half of a Collected Company. You see half the cards and get 1 instead of 2. Seems ok at first glance, but it's probably just standard-level powerful. Looking for 1 creature in 3 cards has a higher miss rate than 2 creatures in 6 cards. I know that the numbers are direct multiples on each, but the way a randomized deck looks means your chances to see certain card types get closer to exponentially higher, instead of multiplicatively higher, with more cards seen.
So you need to spend 3 mana on something that in reality is actually about a third of a Collected Company even though on the face it looks like it's half. It's mitigated by the fact that it's repeatable, but one of the tricky things is that your opponent can control whether or not you get access to that effect when you untap. That's good against some decks but bad against others, like Jeskai, which is happy just playing draw-go for a bit.
And of course it fails the largest creature test in Modern. Does it have an immediate effect or otherwise "beat" removal due to mana cost or other ability? A 1-mana play that doesn't do anything until you untap is fine because you're at parity on cards if it dies to bolt. A 2-mana creature that needs to untap for an effect loses the bolt test but is at parity against Abrupt Decay, etc.
Additionally, I'd assume that the decks you want to play him in will also have 3-drops or things you want to do on turn 3 other than hold this up. That means he's likely best played turn 5 or later, and when you're talking about a turn 5 play it needs to be extraordinary. This isn't.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I'm speaking more for sideboard
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
This makes sense to me. Do you run spellskite for bolt protection?
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I would rather play tireless tracker.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
No, not really. If I can drop the recruiter from a vial and immediately activate it it's done its job even if it gets bolted right after.
in zoo decks, it could provide the ability to search for extra gas. in chord/company decks it can search or extra utility