Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is a card that has historically been seen next to Vendilion Clique as a control staple since it shuts off counterspells and makes it hard to remove things. With the recent success of Jeskai control and grixis control to a lesser extent, is it time to revist this relic?
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
This is the second thread you've made to combatting control, but I don't see it. There was 1 blue control deck in the top 16 of SCG (which it admittedly won), with a further two in the top 32 (including hoogland's scapeshift/control brew), no grixis is not having recent success. Jeskai may be the real deal and Teferi is a pretty huge trump but I think there are better ways to attack Jeskai in a broad way. Like blood moon. The problem I see with him is trying to win the inevitable counter war when you've committed 5 mana, you seriously need to have a mana or relevant card advantage to win that one and at that point you can probably force through anything.
Teferi is great, but 5 mana is a lot and the card can still be countered. I honestly thing there will be a resurgence of Control's old arch-nemesis: Thrun, the Last Troll
I really remember as a Jeskai player years ago how freaking impossible it was to deal with this threat, at least if the opponent kept 1G up most of the time. And it didn't matter how many cards you drew or how much advantage you had, the only options were chumping with Colonnades or Snaps or straight up kill the opp. And it also keeps the pressure on Nahiri, preventing her from ultimating.
I love teferi but I still don't think this is the time and place for him. he does shut off your opponents trying to resolve an ancestral vision when it suspends in on their upkeep, but other than that he costs a lot of mana and if you resolve him I think you might already be winning the game. he does also limit the windows in which a combo opponent can kill you, but again, they may be doing trying to do that much earlier than turn 5.
I can see a case for him maybe in the sideboard if your meta is infested with control, but that isn't the case where I am so I will just continue to lean on resolving my own ancestral visions in the control mirror while I try to remand my opponent's in order to win the game.
as was mentioned I like clique because it's more flexible, comes down early, and has evasion.
Not if you're running cavern of souls on wizard. I used to run it in twin. Cavern is particularly good in these current Jeskai builds as snap and clique are both wizards. IMO Teferi actually seems like a fine SB card. I was actually planning to run it tonight. I don't like colonnades much and cut one for the cavern. Checked the manabase against Karstens Frank Analysis and it still checks out ok. We'll see how he turns out
Edit: granted with twin you just need to land him opponent EOT and combo off....Nahiri kind of follows the same principle. Just slower.
EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Not if you're running cavern of souls on wizard. I used to run it in twin. Cavern is particularly good in these current Jeskai builds as snap and clique are both wizards. IMO Teferi actually seems like a fine SB card. I was actually planning to run it tonight. I don't like colonnades much and cut one for the cavern. Checked the manabase against Karstens Frank Analysis and it still checks out ok. We'll see how he turns out
Edit: granted with twin you just need to land him opponent EOT and combo off....Nahiri kind of follows the same principle. Just slower.
So we are talking about how to deal with the control mirror match? I thought people were talking how non-control decks could beat control decks. Aren't sideboards usually tuned for bad matchups and not the mirror?
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Modern RGTron UGInfect URStorm WUBRAd Nauseam BRGrishoalbrand URGScapeshift WBGAbzan Company WUBRGAmulet Titan BRGLiving End WGBogles
Not if you're running cavern of souls on wizard. I used to run it in twin. Cavern is particularly good in these current Jeskai builds as snap and clique are both wizards. IMO Teferi actually seems like a fine SB card. I was actually planning to run it tonight. I don't like colonnades much and cut one for the cavern. Checked the manabase against Karstens Frank Analysis and it still checks out ok. We'll see how he turns out
Edit: granted with twin you just need to land him opponent EOT and combo off....Nahiri kind of follows the same principle. Just slower.
So we are talking about how to deal with the control mirror match? I thought people were talking how non-control decks could beat control decks. Aren't sideboards usually tuned for bad matchups and not the mirror?
This thread is specifically about Teferi and how to combat the control mirror. UWR/grixis/esper etc have their own threads for other matchups.
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
You should not be tailoring your sideboard to beat the mirror. You should be using your sideboard cards to shore up percentages. If you are playing a 50/50 match say a mirror adding a card or two like some relevant creature isn't going to change your percentage much, even if you draw it. As opposed to drawing a Stony Silence, Crumble to Dust, Rest for the Weary which changes your percentages significantly.
Teferi is good in combo-control decks against other combo-control decks. We used to see him more in twin mirrors or like scapeshift vs twin. Matchups where your opponent is forced to counter Teferi, leaving their guard down for the actual combo. These types of matchups were very common back then.
I don't see any real reason to play him now, since these types of matchups don't really exist.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I really remember as a Jeskai player years ago how freaking impossible it was to deal with this threat, at least if the opponent kept 1G up most of the time. And it didn't matter how many cards you drew or how much advantage you had, the only options were chumping with Colonnades or Snaps or straight up kill the opp. And it also keeps the pressure on Nahiri, preventing her from ultimating.
What Grixis decks have been putting up great results? Are you talking about the one Jeskai deck that snuck through?
You should be thinking about trumps for Tron R/G ramp. Those decks are harder to beat and require very specific answers.
If you want a creature to fight aganst control just add more Clique.
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
I can see a case for him maybe in the sideboard if your meta is infested with control, but that isn't the case where I am so I will just continue to lean on resolving my own ancestral visions in the control mirror while I try to remand my opponent's in order to win the game.
as was mentioned I like clique because it's more flexible, comes down early, and has evasion.
Not if you're running cavern of souls on wizard. I used to run it in twin. Cavern is particularly good in these current Jeskai builds as snap and clique are both wizards. IMO Teferi actually seems like a fine SB card. I was actually planning to run it tonight. I don't like colonnades much and cut one for the cavern. Checked the manabase against Karstens Frank Analysis and it still checks out ok. We'll see how he turns out
Edit: granted with twin you just need to land him opponent EOT and combo off....Nahiri kind of follows the same principle. Just slower.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
So we are talking about how to deal with the control mirror match? I thought people were talking how non-control decks could beat control decks. Aren't sideboards usually tuned for bad matchups and not the mirror?
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
This thread is specifically about Teferi and how to combat the control mirror. UWR/grixis/esper etc have their own threads for other matchups.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
I don't see any real reason to play him now, since these types of matchups don't really exist.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R