Well, Wizards of the Coast has successfully killed any interest I had in watching future Pro Tours as well as any interest I had in any PTQs that aren't in my home city (and possibly even those). It makes me feel like they're actively trying to push me away from the game (it's not for nothing I've taken up Force of Will).
I still don't know why they don't have at least some of the Pro Tours be split Standard/Modern. It just solves everything. It gives the Modern fans something interesting. It keeps the Pro Tour NEW AND EXCITING because you have the Standard portion, so even if the Modern part is a bit repetitive the Standard portion is NEW AND EXCITING. The only downside is that it drops the draft portion, and legitimate question: Is anyone actually that interested in watching that part? Most people I know just ignore the Pro Tour until the first three rounds are done. I can understand a desire for limited in order to 'challenge' people but that doesn't mean they have to do it every Pro Tour. They could easily have every other Pro Tour being Standard+Limited and the intervening ones being Standard+Modern.
Am I missing something? This just seems such an obvious solution to everything.
(I posted this in the banlist topic, but then noticed this one and realized it was more relevant here)
A Standard/Modern PT misses the mark for WOTC on at least two counts. First, Draft is their baby. Every other format is at best secondary to draft in WOTC's eyes. No, I don't watch that portion of the PT. And I don't tune in to any Limited GPs either. But just because a few of us don't doesn't mean it's not popular.
The second reason Standard/Modern fails for WOTC is because it includes Modern. It's obvious from that article that they feel having a Modern PT is far more trouble than it's worth.
So really Standard/Modern as the format makes it worse for WOTC because they can't showcase Draft and it doesn't positively address any of the issues they have with the Modern portion.
This is why I hate giving voice to casuals who only care about what directly and personally affects them, like bans...
Essentially modern is moving towards legacy from now aka a format with one foot on the grave already, it will receive less support from wotc and less attention from the pros, while it will offer less opportunity for high skill regional players to earn some cash
This is terrible news for anyone who plays at any level above fnms
I don't think casuals had anything to do with this. The grumpiest Modern players were the pros, and those are the people WOTC listens to. Basically the order of events is:
- Pros whined about Modern
- WOTC cut Modern PTs
- Pros whined about Modern
- "Casuals" complained about Modern PTs being cut
- Pros whined about Modern
- WOTC reinstated Modern PTs
- Pros whined about Modern
- WOTC banned Twin
- Pros whined about Modern
- "Casuals" took the bait and don't want PTs if it means heavy-handed bans
- Pros whined about Modern
- WOTC cut Modern PTs
- Pros whined about Modern
All LGS in my city are canceling their upcoming Modern events and outright stopping all "off season" support for the format. This leaves me with just Legacy thanks to a local playgroup that holds a league, and Commander. Standard is ***** because "pros" are ***** and Standard is chock full of "pros". Limited is ***** because it has zero replay value, it's consumism disguised as a game.
Paper Pauper never gets any events, Vintage stopped being supported because of the "proxies are for racist homophobic communists" stink, and now Modern is being taken away...
I obviously chose the worst hobby to spend money on, I could own a taxicab fleet for what I've spent on Magic and I may as well finally sell my Oath deck after BOM.
At my local shop the player response was overwhelmingly negative. My store has vastly more modern than standard players and the majority of them feel as is wotc is shoving standard down their throats. A common phrase around here is "I will never play standard again until X" where X is the equivalent of hell freezing over. Today all I heard was "I will never play standard again until wizards gives us back our modern pro tours". Not a single person I talked to during my 10 hour shift open to close had a positive take on this and that speaks volumes more than wotcs shotty "offical" explanation ever will.
In Helene's article I noticed that Modern also isn't listed as an RPTQ/PTQ format at all. With just GP's and Opens which average about once a month, and FNM demand is there a chance we see some pretty big price decreases here? A lot of the competitive push has just been removed from the format.
I have no problem with Modern being removed from the PT. It has essentially not been a PT format for the vast majority of its existence and has still grown because of the players not the producers.
With that said, I don't think this will have a major effect of the standards of bannings other than frequency. Twin would have been banned eventually, Pod needed to go, SFM will certainly never see a unbanning while SoM is unbanned and would likely not be unbanned regardless of its ability to search up half of a control lock combo. People grasping at straws over the potential for unbannings seems very much like wishful thinking. BBE was banned based on GP performances; WotC will still have a desire for the format to be appealing to larger groups of players and BBE just didn't foster that type of meta-game.
The big take away I had from the article was that every modern player should stop fantasizing about cards like counterspell being reprinted; cards like that do not fit into the long term design goals wizards has for Standard and we should expect better mid-range creature options in R and U eventually given that they are generally the colors which gain the least in terms of viable mid-range creature options in nearly every set.
Well, my main take away was from two points pointed out under the Modern & Standard guidelines:
Modern - Be at a power level that allows some newly printed Standard cards to affect the format (we don't have other ways to introduce cards into the format, and we like it when cards or decks can transition).
Standard - Be well-tested and curated to provide depth and balance and minimize the potential for bannings.
This, from my point of view, consolidates that Wizards does not intend to (or manage to get enough resources to) have a R&D department dedicated to playtest for Modern. Many times MaRo has already stated R&D mainly just keeps Modern in mind when designing cards for a new set (so basically, try not to break it a la Eldrazi Mimic), but they simply don't have the resources to do so. There was a chance then Wizards could prove to the higher-ups that Modern was profitable and worth for R&D to have more resources to focus on, most apparent with the release of Modern Masters, Modern GPs and PTs (to the point that in one of few vocal responses got them to reverse the decision back then in 2015 to not have Modern PTs), but I think they have reached the conclusion it wasn't worth it in the end, since they probably didn't get the resources they requested for with the results of those attempts mentioned above.
What worries me now is the tug-of-war between R&D and the banning departments. Sure, we lose the "timed shake-up" bannings without the PT, but can R&D deliver cards that can transition to Modern well enough without playtesting? Even the quoted sentence above doesn't give me confidence, it says "Be at a power level", so basically if R&D fails to do so, it's less of their responsibility but more of Modern's power level's fault. Meanwhile, for Standard, they say "well-tested and curated", something they admit outright is R&D's job (which is true).
When combined it seems to give an impression that "If R&D drops power-level of Standard and Modern's power level fails to meet that new low-standard, cards are going on the banned list to makes sure the new cards could eventually transit over". Sure, it's probably not what they actually meant and I did take two separate sentences and put their meanings together, but I must say the wordings used were particularly unfortunate as well.
I'm actually not worried for the format's survival though. They may have outright admitted that Limited-Print Run sets don't provide enough supply (hence they were focusing on Standard-Set reprints and saying they couldn't do it often as well), but they didn't outright state that small supply would be completely cut off either. One PT a year a format does not make. I believe Modern is a format that can survive solely on GPs, PPTQs and RPTQs. While a vastly different beast by nature, EDH is surviving despite being at best a FNM format (and it's not even a FNM format in most places anyway) and a GP Side-Event format.
Modern may have lost the chance to stand on equal footing as Standard/Limited in the eyes of the higher-ups, but no one said not standing on that stage would equate to the (relative-immediate) death of a format.
A Standard/Modern PT misses the mark for WOTC on at least two counts. First, Draft is their baby. Every other format is at best secondary to draft in WOTC's eyes. No, I don't watch that portion of the PT. And I don't tune in to any Limited GPs either. But just because a few of us don't doesn't mean it's not popular.
The second reason Standard/Modern fails for WOTC is because it includes Modern. It's obvious from that article that they feel having a Modern PT is far more trouble than it's worth.
So really Standard/Modern as the format makes it worse for WOTC because they can't showcase Draft and it doesn't positively address any of the issues they have with the Modern portion.
For #1, the problem with "showcasing" Draft is that, as far as I can tell, people aren't interested in watching it. Playing it, sure. People like to play Limited. But even people who like playing Limited rarely like watching it in my experience. Modern Masters was a bit of an exception, but that's also a rather unique case. Or am I wrong?
For #2, the problems they have with a potential Modern Pro Tour are all fixed by having part of it be Standard. That way you still get to show off the set in the Standard portion while still giving the Modern players something to be interested in. It still keeps what they want in the Pro Tour.
I think the bigger hit was the one that people aren't paying attention to, which is the elimination of platinum membership for qualified players. It basically discourages a ton of content creators for the game due to financial reasons, among other things.
The majority of players dont even know who the platinum players are. Its a small group of people this effects. Those decks they play have been built and tested by more then just those people. Its hard to create something 'new' in Magic. So many players across the world.
Quote from Sirius_B »
All LGS in my city are canceling their upcoming Modern events and outright stopping all "off season" support for the format.
This is so backwards. If the player base wants Modern and cant get it any place else, why would you remove support? Makes no sense. As soon as this came out yesterday, local LGS owners made it known they would support Modern if that is what the players wanted.
as long as the game keeps growing.... players who want an alternative to standard and want to actually keep their cards will move to a non-rotating format... the pro tour has nothing to do with that...
and as long as there is demand for the format there will be plenty of tourney support... the pro tour has never driven demand for the format...
with drafting of the new set as a big requisite for the pro tour format... it definitely was not a good showcase for modern... if they weren't going to change that this makes perfect sense...
whether it's scg or cfb someone will step in to fill the void in terms of tourney support...
+1
There will always be a non-rotating or "eternal" format, it was legacy before, it's more modern now.
The rotating standard v.s. non-rotating formats like legacy, modern is not only a problem for the two decade old MTG, it's also becoming an adventure for the younger Hearthstone. You always want people to buy their new products, but you dont want players to not be able to do anything with the older products, or the players will find a way to play with those products regardless. (e.g. EDH)
Well, Wizards of the Coast has successfully killed any interest I had in watching future Pro Tours as well as any interest I had in any PTQs that aren't in my home city (and possibly even those). It makes me feel like they're actively trying to push me away from the game (it's not for nothing I've taken up Force of Will).
I still don't know why they don't have at least some of the Pro Tours be split Standard/Modern. It just solves everything. It gives the Modern fans something interesting. It keeps the Pro Tour NEW AND EXCITING because you have the Standard portion, so even if the Modern part is a bit repetitive the Standard portion is NEW AND EXCITING. The only downside is that it drops the draft portion, and legitimate question: Is anyone actually that interested in watching that part? Most people I know just ignore the Pro Tour until the first three rounds are done. I can understand a desire for limited in order to 'challenge' people but that doesn't mean they have to do it every Pro Tour. They could easily have every other Pro Tour being Standard+Limited and the intervening ones being Standard+Modern.
Am I missing something? This just seems such an obvious solution to everything.
(I posted this in the banlist topic, but then noticed this one and realized it was more relevant here)
u probably missed the fact that they make the most money from draft/limited and standard, lol
A Standard/Modern PT misses the mark for WOTC on at least two counts. First, Draft is their baby. Every other format is at best secondary to draft in WOTC's eyes. No, I don't watch that portion of the PT. And I don't tune in to any Limited GPs either. But just because a few of us don't doesn't mean it's not popular.
The second reason Standard/Modern fails for WOTC is because it includes Modern. It's obvious from that article that they feel having a Modern PT is far more trouble than it's worth.
So really Standard/Modern as the format makes it worse for WOTC because they can't showcase Draft and it doesn't positively address any of the issues they have with the Modern portion.
For #1, the problem with "showcasing" Draft is that, as far as I can tell, people aren't interested in watching it. Playing it, sure. People like to play Limited. But even people who like playing Limited rarely like watching it in my experience. Modern Masters was a bit of an exception, but that's also a rather unique case. Or am I wrong?
For #2, the problems they have with a potential Modern Pro Tour are all fixed by having part of it be Standard. That way you still get to show off the set in the Standard portion while still giving the Modern players something to be interested in. It still keeps what they want in the Pro Tour.
it doesn't matter how many people you know who don't like watching draft. I don't like it either. But that's WotC's #1 format.
Draft showcases the new set far better then standard does. I'm not sure why you think standard does this well enough for them when in the split format era they've never skipped draft but they have skipped standard.
Having standard be the other format does absolutely nothing to mask or fix the problems they feel are inherent to modern itself.
A Standard/Modern PT misses the mark for WOTC on at least two counts. First, Draft is their baby. Every other format is at best secondary to draft in WOTC's eyes. No, I don't watch that portion of the PT. And I don't tune in to any Limited GPs either. But just because a few of us don't doesn't mean it's not popular.
The second reason Standard/Modern fails for WOTC is because it includes Modern. It's obvious from that article that they feel having a Modern PT is far more trouble than it's worth.
So really Standard/Modern as the format makes it worse for WOTC because they can't showcase Draft and it doesn't positively address any of the issues they have with the Modern portion.
For #1, the problem with "showcasing" Draft is that, as far as I can tell, people aren't interested in watching it. Playing it, sure. People like to play Limited. But even people who like playing Limited rarely like watching it in my experience. Modern Masters was a bit of an exception, but that's also a rather unique case. Or am I wrong?
For #2, the problems they have with a potential Modern Pro Tour are all fixed by having part of it be Standard. That way you still get to show off the set in the Standard portion while still giving the Modern players something to be interested in. It still keeps what they want in the Pro Tour.
it doesn't matter how many people you know who don't like watching draft. I don't like it either. But that's WotC's #1 format.
Draft showcases the new set far better then standard does. I'm not sure why you think standard does this well enough for them when in the split format era they've never skipped draft but they have skipped standard.
Having standard be the other format does absolutely nothing to mask or fix the problems they feel are inherent to modern itself.
Non rotating formats like Modern are always the best (at least for me) but unfortunately they don't give Wizards as much money as other limited formats (Standard, Draft) do and so they don't support it that much.
oh I agree. Personally I would love lord seth's split standard modern pt format. I just think it's unrealistic and doesn't take into account WotC's goals or views.
Based on this decision, I fully expect MORE modern GPs. I love to watch the coverage (and legacy....) and see the decks perform. I would love to attend a modern GP someday, but I have not had the fortune of being able to attend one near me.
Yeah to me this seems like a clear ploy by WotC to try to wipe their hands of modern, which definitely seems like a good thing, but I have my doubts. Wizards absolutely needs a format like modern to do well or the investment potential of magic cards falls through. They know they need an eternal, nonrotating format that doesn't use the reserved list, but to me this looks like a way to use the lessons they have learned from modern to build a new "eternal" format. They drop modern from the PT and basically simultaneously announce eternal masters? Seems fishy.
We all know that wizards is absolutely incapable of running modern properly. They demonstrated this time and time again, I just can't help but feel pessimistic about this announcement.
one thing I got from this is that they want people to play standard and limited because they make more money off those formats
I'm still kinda confused about is that I thought they were trying to support modern more as it's a non rotating format that they can support more
The thing to remember is that removing the Modern PT is a kind of support. This feels odd because removing something doesn't feel like support at all, but in this case, I believe it will very much benefit Modern in the long-run. The PT was a huge pressure on the banlist which I believe, and in my experience, has led to stunted format growth, unclear expectations, and the very "shadow of dread" around the format Forsythe talked about. With no more PT, these factors will all diminish over time, leading to a healthier format overall. Moreover, Wizards recognizes (and we can independently observe) the importance of a non-rotating format in their core Magic wheelhouse. No matter what happens with Standard, Limited, Pro Tours, or anything else, Wizards needs that non-rotating format and Modern looks to fill that niche. Legacy and Vintage sure can't because of the Reserve List, and that's not going away no matter how many armchair lawyers cry for its abolition.
The only danger to Modern would be if Wizards replaced it with another non-rotating format, but I've seen zero good evidence to suggest this is happening. It also feels like a really bad move in the abstract: consumer confidence would just plummet if Wizards tried to reboot Modern, and rightly so. Barring that one threat, which I view as extremely unrealistic, Modern is likely to thrive in this new environment, growing in ways it was unable to enjoy before.
one thing I got from this is that they want people to play standard and limited because they make more money off those formats
I'm still kinda confused about is that I thought they were trying to support modern more as it's a non rotating format that they can support more
The thing to remember is that removing the Modern PT is a kind of support. This feels odd because removing something doesn't feel like support at all, but in this case, I believe it will very much benefit Modern in the long-run. The PT was a huge pressure on the banlist which I believe, and in my experience, has led to stunted format growth, unclear expectations, and the very "shadow of dread" around the format Forsythe talked about. With no more PT, these factors will all diminish over time, leading to a healthier format overall. Moreover, Wizards recognizes (and we can independently observe) the importance of a non-rotating format in their core Magic wheelhouse. No matter what happens with Standard, Limited, Pro Tours, or anything else, Wizards needs that non-rotating format and Modern looks to fill that niche. Legacy and Vintage sure can't because of the Reserve List, and that's not going away no matter how many armchair lawyers cry for its abolition.
The only danger to Modern would be if Wizards replaced it with another non-rotating format, but I've seen zero good evidence to suggest this is happening. It also feels like a really bad move in the abstract: consumer confidence would just plummet if Wizards tried to reboot Modern, and rightly so. Barring that one threat, which I view as extremely unrealistic, Modern is likely to thrive in this new environment, growing in ways it was unable to enjoy before.
tbh, modern is a good way to have a non rotating format. Large pool of sets but still within a "modern" frame. I really like your explanation though. thanks
Well, Wizards of the Coast has successfully killed any interest I had in watching future Pro Tours as well as any interest I had in any PTQs that aren't in my home city (and possibly even those). It makes me feel like they're actively trying to push me away from the game (it's not for nothing I've taken up Force of Will).
I still don't know why they don't have at least some of the Pro Tours be split Standard/Modern. It just solves everything. It gives the Modern fans something interesting. It keeps the Pro Tour NEW AND EXCITING because you have the Standard portion, so even if the Modern part is a bit repetitive the Standard portion is NEW AND EXCITING. The only downside is that it drops the draft portion, and legitimate question: Is anyone actually that interested in watching that part? Most people I know just ignore the Pro Tour until the first three rounds are done. I can understand a desire for limited in order to 'challenge' people but that doesn't mean they have to do it every Pro Tour. They could easily have every other Pro Tour being Standard+Limited and the intervening ones being Standard+Modern.
Am I missing something? This just seems such an obvious solution to everything.
(I posted this in the banlist topic, but then noticed this one and realized it was more relevant here)
u probably missed the fact that they make the most money from draft/limited and standard, lol
it doesn't matter how many people you know who don't like watching draft. I don't like it either. But that's WotC's #1 format.
But just because people like to play it doesn't mean they're interested in watching it. I know some guys who really love to draft and they still have little interest in watching it. No matter how popular draft may be to do, it doesn't seem particularly popular to watch.
Yeah to me this seems like a clear ploy by WotC to try to wipe their hands of modern, which definitely seems like a good thing, but I have my doubts. Wizards absolutely needs a format like modern to do well or the investment potential of magic cards falls through. They know they need an eternal, nonrotating format that doesn't use the reserved list, but to me this looks like a way to use the lessons they have learned from modern to build a new "eternal" format. They drop modern from the PT and basically simultaneously announce eternal masters? Seems fishy.
We all know that wizards is absolutely incapable of running modern properly. They demonstrated this time and time again, I just can't help but feel pessimistic about this announcement.
An "Eternal" that's just Legacy without duals, LED, Mox Diamond, Cradle and a bunch of silver bullets/fringe strategy pushers, would be an interesting format.
An "Eternal" that follows their "make Standard cards important" guideline would be a terrible format. Who the **** wants to play a Legacy without duals, LED, Diamond, Cradle, Brainstorm, Hymn, Swords, and so many other cards that would need to be banned in order for *****ty midrange standard creatures to show up in decks?
Non rotating formats like Modern are always the best (at least for me) but unfortunately they don't give Wizards as much money as other limited formats (Standard, Draft) do and so they don't support it that much.
Limited (as opposed to Constructed) formats include sealed deck and booster draft. Standard, Modern, Legacy, and Vintage are not Limited
it doesn't matter how many people you know who don't like watching draft. I don't like it either. But that's WotC's #1 format.
But just because people like to play it doesn't mean they're interested in watching it. I know some guys who really love to draft and they still have little interest in watching it. No matter how popular draft may be to do, it doesn't seem particularly popular to watch.
At this point I'm unsure exactly where you're coming from. Are you deciding to ignore the obvious fact that WOTC's primary goal for the PT is to push the new set, primarily through draft? Because that goal doesn't care about your arguments. Are you saying their goals are incorrect and offering a hypothetical based on your own desired goals?
it doesn't matter how many people you know who don't like watching draft. I don't like it either. But that's WotC's #1 format.
But just because people like to play it doesn't mean they're interested in watching it. I know some guys who really love to draft and they still have little interest in watching it. No matter how popular draft may be to do, it doesn't seem particularly popular to watch.
At this point I'm unsure exactly where you're coming from. Are you deciding to ignore the obvious fact that WOTC's primary goal for the PT is to push the new set, primarily through draft? Because that goal doesn't care about your arguments. Are you saying their goals are incorrect and offering a hypothetical based on your own desired goals?
In what way does the Pro Tour "primarily" push the set through draft? Most of the Pro Tour isn't draft at all.
Or maybe you're saying that they want people to play draft because it sells packs. The problem is that I'm very dubious that the Pro Tour really pushes that. When you see something cool when watching Constructed, it can make you want to play the format or pick up the deck you saw. But that doesn't work for Limited. I can't say "oh wow! That Pack Rat card is so amazing! I want to play RTR Limited so I can use that card!" because you have such a low chance of being able to do that. Whatever I watch on the Pro Tour is something I won't ever get to experience because I'll be opening up different cards when I draft. And it also can't really recapture the deckbuilding aspect either, because everyone is starting with different cards. In Constructed, the cards everyone starts with are the same, so I can better appreciate a deck someone plays as a deckbuilding exercise (even if it is netdecked).
Limited can be a lot of fun to play. But none of that really translates into being interesting to watch.
Since its the PRO TOUR, maybe they should have to play multiple formats. Personally I would much rather see, Standard/Modern or Standard/Legacy or Modern/Legacy with top 8 being draft of the most recent set/block. Just my 2 cents. Either make the event about the pros or make the event about the new sets, but apparently Wotc can not do both.
For the record, I enjoy watching draft/sealed events but I wish they could figure a way to see the draft in real time to see picks of each player. Its frustrating seeing only one or two players picks as the packs go around. Then they focus coverage on players you were not able to see what they picked.
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The second reason Standard/Modern fails for WOTC is because it includes Modern. It's obvious from that article that they feel having a Modern PT is far more trouble than it's worth.
So really Standard/Modern as the format makes it worse for WOTC because they can't showcase Draft and it doesn't positively address any of the issues they have with the Modern portion.
I don't think casuals had anything to do with this. The grumpiest Modern players were the pros, and those are the people WOTC listens to. Basically the order of events is:
- Pros whined about Modern
- WOTC cut Modern PTs
- Pros whined about Modern
- "Casuals" complained about Modern PTs being cut
- Pros whined about Modern
- WOTC reinstated Modern PTs
- Pros whined about Modern
- WOTC banned Twin
- Pros whined about Modern
- "Casuals" took the bait and don't want PTs if it means heavy-handed bans
- Pros whined about Modern
- WOTC cut Modern PTs
- Pros whined about Modern
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Paper Pauper never gets any events, Vintage stopped being supported because of the "proxies are for racist homophobic communists" stink, and now Modern is being taken away...
I obviously chose the worst hobby to spend money on, I could own a taxicab fleet for what I've spent on Magic and I may as well finally sell my Oath deck after BOM.
Settle on a Deck and stick to it.
Even if it's Tier 3.5 and borderline playable, just stick to it.
That does have just upsides:
Green @ it's best
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
With that said, I don't think this will have a major effect of the standards of bannings other than frequency. Twin would have been banned eventually, Pod needed to go, SFM will certainly never see a unbanning while SoM is unbanned and would likely not be unbanned regardless of its ability to search up half of a control lock combo. People grasping at straws over the potential for unbannings seems very much like wishful thinking. BBE was banned based on GP performances; WotC will still have a desire for the format to be appealing to larger groups of players and BBE just didn't foster that type of meta-game.
The big take away I had from the article was that every modern player should stop fantasizing about cards like counterspell being reprinted; cards like that do not fit into the long term design goals wizards has for Standard and we should expect better mid-range creature options in R and U eventually given that they are generally the colors which gain the least in terms of viable mid-range creature options in nearly every set.
This, from my point of view, consolidates that Wizards does not intend to (or manage to get enough resources to) have a R&D department dedicated to playtest for Modern. Many times MaRo has already stated R&D mainly just keeps Modern in mind when designing cards for a new set (so basically, try not to break it a la Eldrazi Mimic), but they simply don't have the resources to do so. There was a chance then Wizards could prove to the higher-ups that Modern was profitable and worth for R&D to have more resources to focus on, most apparent with the release of Modern Masters, Modern GPs and PTs (to the point that in one of few vocal responses got them to reverse the decision back then in 2015 to not have Modern PTs), but I think they have reached the conclusion it wasn't worth it in the end, since they probably didn't get the resources they requested for with the results of those attempts mentioned above.
What worries me now is the tug-of-war between R&D and the banning departments. Sure, we lose the "timed shake-up" bannings without the PT, but can R&D deliver cards that can transition to Modern well enough without playtesting? Even the quoted sentence above doesn't give me confidence, it says "Be at a power level", so basically if R&D fails to do so, it's less of their responsibility but more of Modern's power level's fault. Meanwhile, for Standard, they say "well-tested and curated", something they admit outright is R&D's job (which is true).
When combined it seems to give an impression that "If R&D drops power-level of Standard and Modern's power level fails to meet that new low-standard, cards are going on the banned list to makes sure the new cards could eventually transit over". Sure, it's probably not what they actually meant and I did take two separate sentences and put their meanings together, but I must say the wordings used were particularly unfortunate as well.
I'm actually not worried for the format's survival though. They may have outright admitted that Limited-Print Run sets don't provide enough supply (hence they were focusing on Standard-Set reprints and saying they couldn't do it often as well), but they didn't outright state that small supply would be completely cut off either. One PT a year a format does not make. I believe Modern is a format that can survive solely on GPs, PPTQs and RPTQs. While a vastly different beast by nature, EDH is surviving despite being at best a FNM format (and it's not even a FNM format in most places anyway) and a GP Side-Event format.
Modern may have lost the chance to stand on equal footing as Standard/Limited in the eyes of the higher-ups, but no one said not standing on that stage would equate to the (relative-immediate) death of a format.
For #2, the problems they have with a potential Modern Pro Tour are all fixed by having part of it be Standard. That way you still get to show off the set in the Standard portion while still giving the Modern players something to be interested in. It still keeps what they want in the Pro Tour.
The majority of players dont even know who the platinum players are. Its a small group of people this effects. Those decks they play have been built and tested by more then just those people. Its hard to create something 'new' in Magic. So many players across the world.
This is so backwards. If the player base wants Modern and cant get it any place else, why would you remove support? Makes no sense. As soon as this came out yesterday, local LGS owners made it known they would support Modern if that is what the players wanted.
+1
There will always be a non-rotating or "eternal" format, it was legacy before, it's more modern now.
The rotating standard v.s. non-rotating formats like legacy, modern is not only a problem for the two decade old MTG, it's also becoming an adventure for the younger Hearthstone. You always want people to buy their new products, but you dont want players to not be able to do anything with the older products, or the players will find a way to play with those products regardless. (e.g. EDH)
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
u probably missed the fact that they make the most money from draft/limited and standard, lol
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
Draft showcases the new set far better then standard does. I'm not sure why you think standard does this well enough for them when in the split format era they've never skipped draft but they have skipped standard.
Having standard be the other format does absolutely nothing to mask or fix the problems they feel are inherent to modern itself.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
RDW
Zoo
CoCo Elves
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
We all know that wizards is absolutely incapable of running modern properly. They demonstrated this time and time again, I just can't help but feel pessimistic about this announcement.
I'm still kinda confused about is that I thought they were trying to support modern more as it's a non rotating format that they can support more
The thing to remember is that removing the Modern PT is a kind of support. This feels odd because removing something doesn't feel like support at all, but in this case, I believe it will very much benefit Modern in the long-run. The PT was a huge pressure on the banlist which I believe, and in my experience, has led to stunted format growth, unclear expectations, and the very "shadow of dread" around the format Forsythe talked about. With no more PT, these factors will all diminish over time, leading to a healthier format overall. Moreover, Wizards recognizes (and we can independently observe) the importance of a non-rotating format in their core Magic wheelhouse. No matter what happens with Standard, Limited, Pro Tours, or anything else, Wizards needs that non-rotating format and Modern looks to fill that niche. Legacy and Vintage sure can't because of the Reserve List, and that's not going away no matter how many armchair lawyers cry for its abolition.
The only danger to Modern would be if Wizards replaced it with another non-rotating format, but I've seen zero good evidence to suggest this is happening. It also feels like a really bad move in the abstract: consumer confidence would just plummet if Wizards tried to reboot Modern, and rightly so. Barring that one threat, which I view as extremely unrealistic, Modern is likely to thrive in this new environment, growing in ways it was unable to enjoy before.
tbh, modern is a good way to have a non rotating format. Large pool of sets but still within a "modern" frame. I really like your explanation though. thanks
But just because people like to play it doesn't mean they're interested in watching it. I know some guys who really love to draft and they still have little interest in watching it. No matter how popular draft may be to do, it doesn't seem particularly popular to watch.
An "Eternal" that's just Legacy without duals, LED, Mox Diamond, Cradle and a bunch of silver bullets/fringe strategy pushers, would be an interesting format.
An "Eternal" that follows their "make Standard cards important" guideline would be a terrible format. Who the **** wants to play a Legacy without duals, LED, Diamond, Cradle, Brainstorm, Hymn, Swords, and so many other cards that would need to be banned in order for *****ty midrange standard creatures to show up in decks?
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
In what way does the Pro Tour "primarily" push the set through draft? Most of the Pro Tour isn't draft at all.
Or maybe you're saying that they want people to play draft because it sells packs. The problem is that I'm very dubious that the Pro Tour really pushes that. When you see something cool when watching Constructed, it can make you want to play the format or pick up the deck you saw. But that doesn't work for Limited. I can't say "oh wow! That Pack Rat card is so amazing! I want to play RTR Limited so I can use that card!" because you have such a low chance of being able to do that. Whatever I watch on the Pro Tour is something I won't ever get to experience because I'll be opening up different cards when I draft. And it also can't really recapture the deckbuilding aspect either, because everyone is starting with different cards. In Constructed, the cards everyone starts with are the same, so I can better appreciate a deck someone plays as a deckbuilding exercise (even if it is netdecked).
Limited can be a lot of fun to play. But none of that really translates into being interesting to watch.
For the record, I enjoy watching draft/sealed events but I wish they could figure a way to see the draft in real time to see picks of each player. Its frustrating seeing only one or two players picks as the packs go around. Then they focus coverage on players you were not able to see what they picked.