"We'll stop supporting Modern since it doesn't give us the cash like Limited / Standard does. If you thought prices were through the roof and reprints scarce and limited, expect even less reprinting now. Modern is politically dead and it's going to take the Legacy route."
As long as they give Splinter Twin (whose ban was clearly made to upset the playerbase so they wouldn't protest for this like last time), Birthing Pod and Stoneforge Mystic and they don't touch anything else, I'm happy.
As much as I love seeing Modern on the big stage it is kind of a relief to not have the effects of the Pro Tour in the format anymore. The last 3 months have shown that the Pro Tour was toxic for WotC handling of the format, although I do think they could easily have a large scale modern event every year without needing to 'spice up' the format every time.
It was nice to see them finally address the elephant in the room, and redefine their goals for modern as a whole. It will be interesting to see how they approach the format from here on in.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
It's for the best. Good decision. Affinity players can now relax.
They took on board the mistake of last time and published a proper explanation this time too.
Well Pro Tour Oath of the Gatewatch now has the dubious honour of being the only (?) PT to cause a format to be removed from the PT entirely!
I don't think Affinity players can relax. The "less non-interactive decks" and "lower power level so more bad Standard cards can impact the format" paints a target on our forehead. I fear this will become an Extended Standard of sorts with grindy midrange creatures and 3 CMC removal swinging at each other.
It's for the best. Good decision. Affinity players can now relax.
If you read AF's article again, decks like Affinity, Infect, Grishoalbrand are all on the chopping block.
Private Mod Note
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EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
While I would personally love for that to sort of happen, I have no idea what has driven you to believe this paranoid babble.
No offense but if you like midrange grindfests with dumb creatures and 3 CMC removal, Standard seems more up your alley. It's one thing to have midrange decks like Jund or Abzan, which is completely fair and I enjoy, and another completely different one to have decks with 5-6 CMC dumb midrange creatures, 3 CMC removals and 5 CMC wraths. We don't need another dumbed down format. If they want more cards to impact the format maybe design good blocks like the Tarkir one? It was so good that 14 or so cards through the whole block shook Modern heavily, two of them even being so powerful they saw a ban across the board.
Anyway, I think they are wrong about the 'problems' associated with an accelerated metagame figuring out-ness.
For one, I don't think it'll be as slow as they think it is going forward thanks to MTGO and various ways to figure out magic statistics. For another, I think figuring out potential problems that deserve bans faster is better.
I am also concerned with removing the Pro Tour without replacing it with something else Modern focused, because a reduced emphasis on Modern could also mean they are less motivated to give us needed reprints, especially with how many Modern staples they seem to have decided are too strong for Standard, or at least the vast majority of Standard environments. Even worse the ones that are perhaps too strong for limited so need to get bumped up a bunch in rarity even when they are reprinted.
I also think their diversity goals for Modern can't be met with their other guidelines and only current Standard balance levels for certain card types (particularly instant and sorcery spells), at least not for a very long time. There are certain areas of the Modern cardpool that are too weak compared to other areas of the card pool, which make certain deck archetypes hard to build at a comparable level to certain other ones, and those areas are generally not easily fulfilled with the kind of cards they seem willing to print in Standard (usually too high cmc for the effect to be playable in Modern). They really need, at least temporarily, or occasionally, a new way for more lots of more powerful cards designed for Modern power levels to enter the Modern card pool besides through Standard, or to power up Standard temporarily to Modern power levels on occasion if they want to hit their archetype diversity goals any time soon.
Current printing patterns of Standard heavily favor aggro and midrange decks in Modern getting continually better (with tempo rarely getting a scrap or two), while other types lag behind, except the occasional thing like a screwed up combo deck that slipped through the cracks due to interactions between older and new cards, and even that is becoming less likely as they print less in-Standard combo cards and be more excessively careful with exile clauses tacked onto anything that looks like it has a vague potential for abuse and such, along with often unplayable even in Standard mana costs. Control in particular seems to be being punished with counterspells, multi-card draw, and removal all tending to be much higher cmc in Standard than is playable in Modern, and becoming even more side-boardy and restrictive as of late to the point of being nearly unplayable in Modern's diverse metagame, even if it is vaugely playable in Standard or limited it was printed for. Not to mention 4 cmc solid board wipes being pushed out of the Standard meta, drastically reducing chances of reasonable reprints of cards like Damnation, or coming up with cool new variants like Supreme Verdict that can be Modern playable.
Simply put, it looks like they are changing things in a way that will lead to bad things for Modern, including steady or rapid price increases due to lack of reprints, slowly increasing dominance of aggro and midrange, and general stagnation and imbalance of the format for other archetypes that won't be getting comparable tools and card pool growth. They've learned too many lessons in Standard and Limited, and the results are hurting Modern, which has lots of pre-lesson cards, but not enough diversity of them across archetypes at that power level.
I'm sure they'll be able to keep banning broken stuff and keep the ban list minimal and allow a lot of different decks to be present, but I have my doubts about the number of archetypes that will be present among those decks, and the percentages of different archetypes, unless they drastically change things and allow some stronger stuff of certain archetype enablers to enter Modern than current Standard printing patterns allow.
It gives me poor hopes for the format, and is actually making me consider stopping investing in Modern entirely, due to poor hopes for the future of the format, and possibly Magic overall, because without a format like the ideal way I'd like them to manage Modern, it is hard for me to justify investing in cards, especially compared to other hobbies I could be having fun with, and the way they've begun going retcon crazy and relatively lazy with internal consistency with the lore.
While I would personally love for that to sort of happen, I have no idea what has driven you to believe this paranoid babble.
No offense but if you like midrange grindfests with dumb creatures and 3 CMC removal, Standard seems more up your alley. It's one thing to have midrange decks like Jund or Abzan, which is completely fair and I enjoy, and another completely different one to have decks with 5-6 CMC dumb midrange creatures, 3 CMC removals and 5 CMC wraths. We don't need another dumbed down format. If they want more cards to impact the format maybe design good blocks like the Tarkir one? It was so good that 14 or so cards through the whole block shook Modern heavily, two of them even being so powerful they saw a ban across the board.
I prefer midrange decks than some stupid linear decks (read combo) and also than boring control. Midrange decks offer you all aspects of game and still being very fair.
But the point of Modern is to showcase all the different archetypes. That means midrange, control, aggro, and combo. Each plays an important part in balancing the format.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
I expect a ModernNexus article about this, ktkenshinx
There goes my UW Tron piece for this week...
Need to start writing the new article, but overall, this seems like probably the best high-level policy change to happen to Modern since the format's birth.
It was hard for me to look at the Twin ban and not see it as an attempt to aggravate the players and give the Modern PT a bad taste in players' mouths. I know that's a little bit tinfoil hat, but that was how I felt. I didn't need to read this announcement to know what was coming.
I'm sure WOTC thinks this change is totally unproblematic, since they advertise the new set, and pros like EFro who hate playing Modern and have special influence on policy due to personal connections with the guys in R&D (not to pick on him in particular, he's just been open about this privilege) get to have their way and play Standard instead.
What they'll likely never acknowledge is that this is a failure on their part to figure out how to properly manage Modern, and rather than giving an honest attempt at doing so, they've bailed. I can't say I'm unhappy to have the threat of arbitrary bans alleviated, but I hope this comes with an increase in Grand Prix visibility and that they showcase the format at a high level by some other means. I do not want to see Modern become a neglected format like Legacy, or a de facto casual format.
They basically are avoiding the elephant in the room by throwing a blanket over it and painting a smiley on it with a spray can.
The only way they can turn modern into extended standard is by literally banning every power card and then unbanning them piece meal until they get the results they want. That means basically killing the entire meta as we know it and rebuilding it in the image they see fit. I don't know if they are going to do it or not, but if modern is no longer part of the PT they got free reign to do whatever they well please to get the entire format in line.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
"We'll stop supporting Modern since it doesn't give us the cash like Limited / Standard does. If you thought prices were through the roof and reprints scarce and limited, expect even less reprinting now. Modern is politically dead and it's going to take the Legacy route."
As long as they give Splinter Twin (whose ban was clearly made to upset the playerbase so they wouldn't protest for this like last time), Birthing Pod and Stoneforge Mystic and they don't touch anything else, I'm happy.
Pod would only get stronger and stronger as time went on - no way that one's coming back.
Considering that the majority of Modern players are probably not going to ever go to the PT or make their living in any part via Magic, I think those "casuals" have a fair bit of sway.
Also it's not like they're going to kill the Modern GPs...
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
I expect a ModernNexus article about this, ktkenshinx
There goes my UW Tron piece for this week...
Need to start writing the new article, but overall, this seems like probably the best high-level policy change to happen to Modern since the format's birth.
What is good about it? That now mmodern is a place to rrelax in standard off seasons? Or tthat it just became the best side event format? We might as well merge It with commander, from now on standard is the real game, any hope of modern providing a non rotating alternative got dashed and for the sake of what? Twin or not banning affinity? Who even cares other than casuals who have no other deck?
I understand that Jund casuals who don't have to worry about bans because they'll simply brainlessly replace the banned piece with the next best money card printed don't care, but the rest of us want to play a real format instead of Standard Midrange: Now with perfect manabases edition.
Come on is the pro tour that important..?
we all know pro stand for promotional and Standard just makes more money so who cares. Let them play with boring slow decks while we are having fun with the real deal.
And we still have Star City Games and they know what they are talking about specially their commentators are way above them.
Got to love Cedric and Sullivan!
And Legacy does not have a pro tour and I don't hear those players complain.
Modern was unworkable as a PT format because the threats all demand specialized answers and there isn't enough space to fit all of those specialized answers.
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That was pretty interesting. But dropping a warship on me is cheating. Take it back!
Did I read a different article to everyone else? Aside from no long having the yearly Pro-Tour bannings nothing has changed. All of their stated goals are more or less identical to what the community already knew or thought.
Able to use older cards. Check
Offer different playstyles than those seen in standard. New but good.
Non-rotating. Check
Consisting of cards they are willing and able to reprint. No reserve list and the Masters series, check.
Diverse meta game. Check
Don't have the meta dominated by fast linear decks. Check
Some new cards having an impact. Not a previously state goal but one they have successful completed with almost every set thus far.
Smallest possible ban list. Check
They are not going to stop running Modern GPs nor is SCG going to stop running events because the format is hugely popular. Plus I highly doubt they are going to stop printing the Masters series given how popular they have been and the number of people they pull for their GPs.
Also, could we stop using casuals as an insult. Last I checked this wasn't a XBox Live chat room.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
Mixed feelings. Dont have a problem with lack of PT. Its some of the other things mentioned. Less non-interactive decks means a few T1 and T2 decks are on the watch list. The dozen of decks competing means some cards wont ever come off the ban list (hi Pod, SFM, Twin). Of course this depends on what they are considering top tier. T1 only or T1 and T2? a dozen different decks in the top 16? top 32? Still some vagueness in the statements.
Seems to me Modern fell into Legacy, Vintage area (as in losing support from Wotc) rather quickly. Now the format will be shaped by SCG, MTGO and the one or two GPs Modern will have a year.
To me this statement feels like, 'Modern didint turn out like we wanted. We will leave it unsupported with possible Modern Masters every few years. Look for our new format later this year. Enjoy!'
Is it possible that while not being a PT event per-se, it's one of the PT's side event? Last weekend, PT SOI in Barcelona was Limited, but it had Modern side events.
I doubt it. To the best of my knowledge Pro Tours have never had side events and after 16 rounds against the worlds best I doubt anyone would have the energy for it.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
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No Modern PTs going forward
Small banlist
Less non-interactive decks
Be at a power level so some new cards can break in
"We'll stop supporting Modern since it doesn't give us the cash like Limited / Standard does. If you thought prices were through the roof and reprints scarce and limited, expect even less reprinting now. Modern is politically dead and it's going to take the Legacy route."
As long as they give Splinter Twin (whose ban was clearly made to upset the playerbase so they wouldn't protest for this like last time), Birthing Pod and Stoneforge Mystic and they don't touch anything else, I'm happy.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
It was nice to see them finally address the elephant in the room, and redefine their goals for modern as a whole. It will be interesting to see how they approach the format from here on in.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I don't think Affinity players can relax. The "less non-interactive decks" and "lower power level so more bad Standard cards can impact the format" paints a target on our forehead. I fear this will become an Extended Standard of sorts with grindy midrange creatures and 3 CMC removal swinging at each other.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
If you read AF's article again, decks like Affinity, Infect, Grishoalbrand are all on the chopping block.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
No offense but if you like midrange grindfests with dumb creatures and 3 CMC removal, Standard seems more up your alley. It's one thing to have midrange decks like Jund or Abzan, which is completely fair and I enjoy, and another completely different one to have decks with 5-6 CMC dumb midrange creatures, 3 CMC removals and 5 CMC wraths. We don't need another dumbed down format. If they want more cards to impact the format maybe design good blocks like the Tarkir one? It was so good that 14 or so cards through the whole block shook Modern heavily, two of them even being so powerful they saw a ban across the board.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Anyway, I think they are wrong about the 'problems' associated with an accelerated metagame figuring out-ness.
For one, I don't think it'll be as slow as they think it is going forward thanks to MTGO and various ways to figure out magic statistics. For another, I think figuring out potential problems that deserve bans faster is better.
I am also concerned with removing the Pro Tour without replacing it with something else Modern focused, because a reduced emphasis on Modern could also mean they are less motivated to give us needed reprints, especially with how many Modern staples they seem to have decided are too strong for Standard, or at least the vast majority of Standard environments. Even worse the ones that are perhaps too strong for limited so need to get bumped up a bunch in rarity even when they are reprinted.
I also think their diversity goals for Modern can't be met with their other guidelines and only current Standard balance levels for certain card types (particularly instant and sorcery spells), at least not for a very long time. There are certain areas of the Modern cardpool that are too weak compared to other areas of the card pool, which make certain deck archetypes hard to build at a comparable level to certain other ones, and those areas are generally not easily fulfilled with the kind of cards they seem willing to print in Standard (usually too high cmc for the effect to be playable in Modern). They really need, at least temporarily, or occasionally, a new way for more lots of more powerful cards designed for Modern power levels to enter the Modern card pool besides through Standard, or to power up Standard temporarily to Modern power levels on occasion if they want to hit their archetype diversity goals any time soon.
Current printing patterns of Standard heavily favor aggro and midrange decks in Modern getting continually better (with tempo rarely getting a scrap or two), while other types lag behind, except the occasional thing like a screwed up combo deck that slipped through the cracks due to interactions between older and new cards, and even that is becoming less likely as they print less in-Standard combo cards and be more excessively careful with exile clauses tacked onto anything that looks like it has a vague potential for abuse and such, along with often unplayable even in Standard mana costs. Control in particular seems to be being punished with counterspells, multi-card draw, and removal all tending to be much higher cmc in Standard than is playable in Modern, and becoming even more side-boardy and restrictive as of late to the point of being nearly unplayable in Modern's diverse metagame, even if it is vaugely playable in Standard or limited it was printed for. Not to mention 4 cmc solid board wipes being pushed out of the Standard meta, drastically reducing chances of reasonable reprints of cards like Damnation, or coming up with cool new variants like Supreme Verdict that can be Modern playable.
Simply put, it looks like they are changing things in a way that will lead to bad things for Modern, including steady or rapid price increases due to lack of reprints, slowly increasing dominance of aggro and midrange, and general stagnation and imbalance of the format for other archetypes that won't be getting comparable tools and card pool growth. They've learned too many lessons in Standard and Limited, and the results are hurting Modern, which has lots of pre-lesson cards, but not enough diversity of them across archetypes at that power level.
I'm sure they'll be able to keep banning broken stuff and keep the ban list minimal and allow a lot of different decks to be present, but I have my doubts about the number of archetypes that will be present among those decks, and the percentages of different archetypes, unless they drastically change things and allow some stronger stuff of certain archetype enablers to enter Modern than current Standard printing patterns allow.
It gives me poor hopes for the format, and is actually making me consider stopping investing in Modern entirely, due to poor hopes for the future of the format, and possibly Magic overall, because without a format like the ideal way I'd like them to manage Modern, it is hard for me to justify investing in cards, especially compared to other hobbies I could be having fun with, and the way they've begun going retcon crazy and relatively lazy with internal consistency with the lore.
But the point of Modern is to showcase all the different archetypes. That means midrange, control, aggro, and combo. Each plays an important part in balancing the format.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
There goes my UW Tron piece for this week...
Need to start writing the new article, but overall, this seems like probably the best high-level policy change to happen to Modern since the format's birth.
I'm sure WOTC thinks this change is totally unproblematic, since they advertise the new set, and pros like EFro who hate playing Modern and have special influence on policy due to personal connections with the guys in R&D (not to pick on him in particular, he's just been open about this privilege) get to have their way and play Standard instead.
What they'll likely never acknowledge is that this is a failure on their part to figure out how to properly manage Modern, and rather than giving an honest attempt at doing so, they've bailed. I can't say I'm unhappy to have the threat of arbitrary bans alleviated, but I hope this comes with an increase in Grand Prix visibility and that they showcase the format at a high level by some other means. I do not want to see Modern become a neglected format like Legacy, or a de facto casual format.
The only way they can turn modern into extended standard is by literally banning every power card and then unbanning them piece meal until they get the results they want. That means basically killing the entire meta as we know it and rebuilding it in the image they see fit. I don't know if they are going to do it or not, but if modern is no longer part of the PT they got free reign to do whatever they well please to get the entire format in line.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Pod would only get stronger and stronger as time went on - no way that one's coming back.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Also it's not like they're going to kill the Modern GPs...
I understand that Jund casuals who don't have to worry about bans because they'll simply brainlessly replace the banned piece with the next best money card printed don't care, but the rest of us want to play a real format instead of Standard Midrange: Now with perfect manabases edition.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
we all know pro stand for promotional and Standard just makes more money so who cares. Let them play with boring slow decks while we are having fun with the real deal.
And we still have Star City Games and they know what they are talking about specially their commentators are way above them.
Got to love Cedric and Sullivan!
And Legacy does not have a pro tour and I don't hear those players complain.
Modern - Burn
EDH - Neheb the Eternal
They are not going to stop running Modern GPs nor is SCG going to stop running events because the format is hugely popular. Plus I highly doubt they are going to stop printing the Masters series given how popular they have been and the number of people they pull for their GPs.
Also, could we stop using casuals as an insult. Last I checked this wasn't a XBox Live chat room.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
Seems to me Modern fell into Legacy, Vintage area (as in losing support from Wotc) rather quickly. Now the format will be shaped by SCG, MTGO and the one or two GPs Modern will have a year.
To me this statement feels like, 'Modern didint turn out like we wanted. We will leave it unsupported with possible Modern Masters every few years. Look for our new format later this year. Enjoy!'
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm