Hey guys, just looking for some crowdsourced information. If you had to pick either Blue Moon, Jeskai Control, or URGx Scapeshift as the premier blue red control deck of choice, which one do you think will end up performing the best? Personally, both jeskai and blue moon seem the best positioned to me, jeskai with bolt, helix, and path for the aggro decks and cards like gideon, elspeth, and colonnade for late game while blue moon has bolt, burst lightning, flame slash for early game, and blood moon, chandra flame caller, and batter skull as its late game make both seem well positioned IMO.
Is there any other UR control decks that seem appealing to what you expect the meta to be post SOI? What do you think will be the best way to move forward?
I vote jeskai, if eldrazi go away im expecting lots of aggro and linear strategies to be dominant from here on out. that means affinity burn and infect running rampant. playing white, jeskai has the best sideboard answers to burn and affinity.
It will depend a lot on whether Eye of Ugin gets the boot. If not, the best UR deck will need a gameplan to beat tron's inevitability in which case Blue Moon will probably thrive.
It will depend a lot on whether Eye of Ugin gets the boot. If not, the best UR deck will need a gameplan to beat tron's inevitability in which case Blue Moon will probably thrive.
While I don't know if it will be the best, I absolutely want to play Grixis Control. Thing in the Ice will play nicely with Jace, Snapcaster, Clique, and lots of 1 mana cantrips, discard, and burn. But honestly, it just depends on how you define "control." Under strict definitions (a deck of answers with a powerful finisher) doesn't really exist in Modern. We sort of have UW right now, but that's a meta call for Eldrazi and would not do well in a real or diverse meta (like we had last year). Jeskai would probably be most successful in an aggressive meta because of the main deck life gain and great side board options. But Snap and K Command feel too good together not to try.
It will depend a lot on whether Eye of Ugin gets the boot. If not, the best UR deck will need a gameplan to beat tron's inevitability in which case Blue Moon will probably thrive.
Tron is a small part of the metagame and will continue to be a small part because the format will be dominated by the linear uninteractive decks that Tron hates to play against. A control deck doesn't "need" a plan against it any more than it "needs" a gameplan against any random deck.
Also, Blue Moon is hardly the best UR deck against Tron. In fact, it might be one of the worst. At least UWR Control has a sort of a clock and has Path to Exile to deal with Wurmcoil Engine or Ulamog, plus Stony Silence is killer against the deck. Blue Moon, on the other hand, automatically loses if they don't draw Blood Moon, and still usually loses if they do draw Blood Moon because their lack of pressure means Tron just waits a few turns (while, again, being under no real pressure) and then hardcasts all their bombs anyway.
It will depend a lot on whether Eye of Ugin gets the boot. If not, the best UR deck will need a gameplan to beat tron's inevitability in which case Blue Moon will probably thrive.
Tron is a small part of the metagame and will continue to be a small part because the format will be dominated by the linear uninteractive decks that Tron hates to play against. A control deck doesn't "need" a plan against it any more than it "needs" a gameplan against any random deck.
Also, Blue Moon is hardly the best UR deck against Tron. In fact, it might be one of the worst. At least UWR Control has a sort of a clock and has Path to Exile to deal with Wurmcoil Engine or Ulamog, plus Stony Silence is killer against the deck. Blue Moon, on the other hand, automatically loses if they don't draw Blood Moon, and still usually loses if they do draw Blood Moon because their lack of pressure means Tron just waits a few turns (while, again, being under no real pressure) and then hardcasts all their bombs anyway.
It will depend a lot on whether Eye of Ugin gets the boot. If not, the best UR deck will need a gameplan to beat tron's inevitability in which case Blue Moon will probably thrive.
Tron is a small part of the metagame and will continue to be a small part because the format will be dominated by the linear uninteractive decks that Tron hates to play against. A control deck doesn't "need" a plan against it any more than it "needs" a gameplan against any random deck.
Also, Blue Moon is hardly the best UR deck against Tron. In fact, it might be one of the worst. At least UWR Control has a sort of a clock and has Path to Exile to deal with Wurmcoil Engine or Ulamog, plus Stony Silence is killer against the deck. Blue Moon, on the other hand, automatically loses if they don't draw Blood Moon, and still usually loses if they do draw Blood Moon because their lack of pressure means Tron just waits a few turns (while, again, being under no real pressure) and then hardcasts all their bombs anyway.
You can tell the people who don't know what they are talking about when they say things like "just play blood moon it rekts tron". What gets me is how prevalent the "Tron folds to blood moon" myth is.
I've even had people cast blood moon and just look at me like I should concede already. I actually had one guy go "on to game three?" because he landed a blood moon after I told him no I then proceeded to win the game. Make sure you back up blood moon with some pressure or at a least combo kill.
That being said maybe scapeshift can make a comeback though I'm not holding my breath if Wizards truly wants blue diversity then then need to ban something from Tron. I don't know if an eye of ugin ban would help though.
That being said maybe scapeshift can make a comeback though I'm not holding my breath if Wizards truly wants blue diversity then then need to ban something from Tron. I don't know if an eye of ugin ban would help though.
Banning something from Tron does nothing to create Blue diversity. It just... bans something from Tron. Tron is not the reason control is bad in Modern; it's just a bad matchup. The reason control is bad in Modern is that it lacks the tools and cards necessary to be good.
You don't make control good by taking cards out of the foramt; you make it good by adding cards that benefit it. Counterspell would do wonders to benefit control (and as I've remarked before, Counterspell entering the format would have actually been a net weakening for Twin). Control isn't going to benefit much from a bad matchup that's something like 3% of the metagame getting weaker. It needs something to happen that helps it against the other 97% of the metagame.
I just traded off a bunch of Tron stuff and Eldrazi to a friend (I'm going to get that Ugin back one day...) for a bunch of Jeskai Delver and Control stuff. I've been testing it lately and it seems really strong whether you play draw-go style or more aggressive with Delver and friends. It can stomp Elves/ CoCo decks with Verdict, can ward off Burn using Timely Reinforcements/ Revelation, and can end the game in style with any number of decent planeswalkers.
Also, there was a UW list that Cheon/ Sperling have been running successfully using Condemn (mostly against Eldrazi). What do you guys think of the card in general for a Control list as PoE 5-8? It seems like it could be on par with Path but goes for like $0.25. Grindy Control lists don't need to worry about the opponent gaining life, especially when it buys that much tempo, but the Delver lists should probably avoid it since you run the risk of dragging the game out too long (Vapor Snag is probably better for Delver).
UW control is the best in a post-Eye banning world, without a doubt. Esper Charm is good and everything but the manabase makes it lose to burn and losing to burn is no way to go through life.
If eye gets banned, it's absolutely UW control - though there'll continue to be a lot of different approaches to it (mainly Finks/Resto or Walkers).
I just traded off a bunch of Tron stuff and Eldrazi to a friend (I'm going to get that Ugin back one day...) for a bunch of Jeskai Delver and Control stuff. I've been testing it lately and it seems really strong whether you play draw-go style or more aggressive with Delver and friends. It can stomp Elves/ CoCo decks with Verdict, can ward off Burn using Timely Reinforcements/ Revelation, and can end the game in style with any number of decent planeswalkers.
Also, there was a UW list that Cheon/ Sperling have been running successfully using Condemn (mostly against Eldrazi). What do you guys think of the card in general for a Control list as PoE 5-8? It seems like it could be on par with Path but goes for like $0.25. Grindy Control lists don't need to worry about the opponent gaining life, especially when it buys that much tempo, but the Delver lists should probably avoid it since you run the risk of dragging the game out too long (Vapor Snag is probably better for Delver).
The problem with Condemn isn't the opponent's lifegain, it's that it can't target a creature that's not attacking. Otherwise, exile is relevant but I'd rather give my opponent life than a land.
So far from whst I can tell from a week of testing is that counterburn control decks with ancestral vision and thopter artifact are the best control decks. Thing is blue midrange probably uses the draw spells better. I can see Bug midrange outclasses uwr as the better AV deck. As for non AV blue decks a artifact control deck with the inevitability of the thopter /sword combo has been doing well even against traditionally bad matchups
For a control deck in this format, it has to be aggressive AND controlling. Look at how standard faeries was designed. It requires a NEW deck. You can't branch off something else. What you must do is FORCE other decks to slow down. Dig into the card pool and research and test. Don't look for someone here to give you the go-ahead. Just play what you feel like. You'll never see pros doing such a thing. Be a leader not a follower.
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Is there any other UR control decks that seem appealing to what you expect the meta to be post SOI? What do you think will be the best way to move forward?
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Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
I actually came here to basically say this.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Tron is a small part of the metagame and will continue to be a small part because the format will be dominated by the linear uninteractive decks that Tron hates to play against. A control deck doesn't "need" a plan against it any more than it "needs" a gameplan against any random deck.
Also, Blue Moon is hardly the best UR deck against Tron. In fact, it might be one of the worst. At least UWR Control has a sort of a clock and has Path to Exile to deal with Wurmcoil Engine or Ulamog, plus Stony Silence is killer against the deck. Blue Moon, on the other hand, automatically loses if they don't draw Blood Moon, and still usually loses if they do draw Blood Moon because their lack of pressure means Tron just waits a few turns (while, again, being under no real pressure) and then hardcasts all their bombs anyway.
Also blood moon helps them cast boil on time
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
You can tell the people who don't know what they are talking about when they say things like "just play blood moon it rekts tron". What gets me is how prevalent the "Tron folds to blood moon" myth is.
I've even had people cast blood moon and just look at me like I should concede already. I actually had one guy go "on to game three?" because he landed a blood moon after I told him no I then proceeded to win the game. Make sure you back up blood moon with some pressure or at a least combo kill.
That being said maybe scapeshift can make a comeback though I'm not holding my breath if Wizards truly wants blue diversity then then need to ban something from Tron. I don't know if an eye of ugin ban would help though.
You don't make control good by taking cards out of the foramt; you make it good by adding cards that benefit it. Counterspell would do wonders to benefit control (and as I've remarked before, Counterspell entering the format would have actually been a net weakening for Twin). Control isn't going to benefit much from a bad matchup that's something like 3% of the metagame getting weaker. It needs something to happen that helps it against the other 97% of the metagame.
Also, there was a UW list that Cheon/ Sperling have been running successfully using Condemn (mostly against Eldrazi). What do you guys think of the card in general for a Control list as PoE 5-8? It seems like it could be on par with Path but goes for like $0.25. Grindy Control lists don't need to worry about the opponent gaining life, especially when it buys that much tempo, but the Delver lists should probably avoid it since you run the risk of dragging the game out too long (Vapor Snag is probably better for Delver).
EDIT: List is here http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-cheon-modern-bluewhite-jace-control/
Red/Blue Mage since 2007.
"I block with Lightning Bolt."
UR Storm/ Unstorm/ Pyromancer Ascension
Random Tron/ Eldrazi brews and whatever I can brew with my leftover cards
RUB Tempo/ Midrange/ Control
(whatever cards I have from Modern that haven't rotated yet)
UR True Izzet
UWR Narset
UWRGB Planeswalkers (Progenitus)
U Azami-KAZAM!
RWB Feelsbadman Aggro (Khalia)
Non of the new cards are better than what esper currently has availae.
If eye gets banned, it's absolutely UW control - though there'll continue to be a lot of different approaches to it (mainly Finks/Resto or Walkers).
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
The problem with Condemn isn't the opponent's lifegain, it's that it can't target a creature that's not attacking. Otherwise, exile is relevant but I'd rather give my opponent life than a land.
This