Playing in Modern may mean occasionally dealing with craziness like the Eldrazi, that is why we have a banned list and a process by which Wizards decides which cards need to be banned.
Havrekjex-I read "We don't test for modern" to mean their design space is not constrained by concerns for modern. A third possibility entirely.
I like the Eldrazi and was brewing heartless lists before the release of OGW and in three months will not be able to play any fair eldrazi decks and those people who hate the eldrazi will have to put up with it for a few months.
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As humans, we have a tendency to cling to ideologies. Any positive set of beliefs can quickly turn malevolent once treated as ideology and not an honest intellectual or experiential pursuit of greater truth. Ideology does in entire economic systems and countries, causes religions to massacre thousands, turns human rights movements into authoritarian sects and makes fools out of humanity’s most brilliant minds. Einstein famously wasted the second half of his career trying to calculate a cosmological constant that didn’t exist because “God doesn’t play dice.”
Playing in Modern may mean occasionally dealing with craziness like the Eldrazi, that is why we have a banned list and a process by which Wizards decides which cards need to be banned.
Havrekjex-I read "We don't test for modern" to mean their design space is not constrained by concerns for modern. A third possibility entirely.
I like the Eldrazi and was brewing heartless lists before the release of OGW and in three months will not be able to play any fair eldrazi decks and those people who hate the eldrazi will have to put up with it for a few months.
They do not test for any aspect of Modern. This has been made clear through several tweets from Forsythe and others. It explains why they banned Twin "for the sake of diversity" and then were surprised by an extreme reduction in diversity (80% aggro/combo) followed by utter domination of Eldrazi. It's clear Wizards does not do any testing of any form when it comes to Modern and simply reacts to what they think would be best. If they even hired some unpaid interns to playtest Modern, we'd be in a better spot than throwing darts at a board.
i for one welcome our new tentacle overlords. tier 1, sure, but not strong enough for a ban. the pro tour was definitely very scary but now is not the time to be calling for bans. i get that there are probably plenty of ex twin players still super salty that it got banned but here's a brand new breakout deck that's interesting and different and the first thing we do is cry for it to be banned just because of one televised event? i would hate to play magic with some of you who hate to lose but refuse to be innovative and change to fit the new climate you're in. the field was just completely unprepared for this kind of aggro deck, that's all there is to it.
this is kind of like dredge walking into a vintage tournament and winning just because nobody was expecting it to show up. when people are ready for it, it is tough for dredge to win the whole deal. this deck is 'like' affinity in how explosive it can be, but i might argue that cards to hate on eldrazi are a lot less specific than those that hate on affinity. removal will kill these creatures, nobody is ramping to 10 to newlamog your permanents any more it seems. the problem child is eldrazi mimic and it dies to everything. dismember is beyond solid right now and any deck can play it. i would play it anyways because it is great at what it does for one mana. all that needs to be done against the eldrazi is run them out of cards and save your land hate (if you have it) for the eye of ugin activations that will give the deck gas for the rest of the game if left unchecked.
as the eldrazi player, you can have the xmasland starts we saw on camera OR you can spend your time mulliganning (albeit very nicely) until you hit a hand with a sol land in it because if you keep one without, you are just playing a bad deck with overcosted creatures. chalice on 1 t1 is a lot more offensive to me than anything else the pro tour deck was doing.
this might sound silly but i believe now is a great time to pick up UWR control because of all these silly creature decks running around. counterspells are probably still bad to have in great numbers but i think some snapcastering and jacing back of removal will go a long way against the eldritch menace. i have most of the eldrazi deck together right now and i plan to design a controlling UWR deck to take it on because i believe it can win vs. that deck and therefore be in a great spot vs. most other creature decks out there. if tron is becoming obsolete because of eldrazi, the door is wide open for control to crush some souls.
tldr; cry less, brew more. stop waiting to suckle the teet of the netdecks and go get creative and try to solve this problem yourself. this is a brave new tentacle world we live in for at least 3 months.
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Warned for Trolling. This types of comments will not be tolerated in this thread. Keep the topic clean with out Flaming or Trolling please. ~Lantern
tldr; cry less, brew more. stop waiting to suckle the teet of the netdecks and go get creative and try to solve this problem yourself. this is a brave new tentacle world we live in for at least 3 months.
Sure, any suggestions? The options in the "how to beat Eldrazi" thread aren't especially appetizing. I'm sure as hell not going to randomly board in Painter's Servant in Grixis. I'm already on Blood Moon, but unless they stumble on mana, it's typically a turn too late.
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Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
tldr; cry less, brew more. stop waiting to suckle the teet of the netdecks and go get creative and try to solve this problem yourself. this is a brave new tentacle world we live in for at least 3 months.
I would love for the chance to attack it with Splinter Twin. Until then though, there is not much outside of wholly uninteractive prison decks that effectively deal with Eldrazi.
Why are cards like Bridge and Prison and Tax type cards considered "degenerate"? I have been using them to great effect whenever people rely too much on creatures. I personally like a meta where cards that shutdown creatures are encouraged in control decks.
Because prison is a horrible archetype. It should be available if people want to play it, but it turns a lot of people off of a format (far more than it brings in). Prison should always be a deck choice but it should never be an optimal choice. Ensnaring Bridge and by extension prison is the most viable choice right now. Actually, I came to a thought last night, wondering how well Ensnaring Bridge would work alongside SSG to power it out on T2. That's a good meta solution, but not good for format health.
"people need to get over things and just learn to beat eldrazi." winning in magic may be overrated but losing over and over sure gets old too. i'm not interested in donating money to the eldrazi players. to be fair, stuff like this normally wouldnt be such a big deal. but they keep banning stuff like bloom twin pod ect so i'm hoping this deck will also be gone by april too.
tldr; cry less, brew more. stop waiting to suckle the teet of the netdecks and go get creative and try to solve this problem yourself. this is a brave new tentacle world we live in for at least 3 months.
Sure, any suggestions? The options in the "how to beat Eldrazi" thread aren't especially appetizing. I'm sure as hell not going to randomly board in Painter's Servant in Grixis. I'm already on Blood Moon, but unless they stumble on mana, it's typically a turn too late.
Dismember is how you beat it. Once you stop the mimics from turning on once they usually lose gas. The problem is turn 2 spellskite into turn 3 smasher then. those draws are often impossible to beat unless you have a fast clock as well.
Sure, any suggestions? The options in the "how to beat Eldrazi" thread aren't especially appetizing. I'm sure as hell not going to randomly board in Painter's Servant in Grixis. I'm already on Blood Moon, but unless they stumble on mana, it's typically a turn too late.
you surely did read the tldr; but there was something worthwhile in the novel i wrote above. i did mention trying out control, it's what i plan to do. i think attacking the manabase of eldrazi is not the key to beating them. do you attack the manabase of affinity that dumps its hand out extremely early? you could kill a blinkmoth but don't expect to win the game. i think playing broad, efficient removal like dismember and path (which i also mentioned) is key. i don't think sideboarding is what you need to do to beat this deck, because quite frankly there isn't a sideboard card in existence that is going to make enough of a difference to swing the match in your favor. i think playing a mainboard that is adapted to it's presence is more likely what will be successful. that is why i am experimenting with control again.
I would love for the chance to attack it with Splinter Twin. Until then though, there is not much outside of wholly uninteractive prison decks that effectively deal with Eldrazi.
well you can't play twin, sorry. i did say this would take some creativity to figure out after all. BUT instead of being salty you could take the other 56 cards of your splintertwin deck, which are still playable and modern legal as far as i know, and try to tweak them into a control/tempo deck with roasts and the like to kill eldrazi.
tldr; cry less, brew more. stop waiting to suckle the teet of the netdecks and go get creative and try to solve this problem yourself. this is a brave new tentacle world we live in for at least 3 months.
Sure, any suggestions? The options in the "how to beat Eldrazi" thread aren't especially appetizing. I'm sure as hell not going to randomly board in Painter's Servant in Grixis. I'm already on Blood Moon, but unless they stumble on mana, it's typically a turn too late.
I'm thinking of preboarding my Bonfires of the Damned for Engineered Explosives in Boros.
Shores up my fear of Chalice for 1. Incidentally splash-hates Endless Ones. Serves much the same role of asymmetric boardwipe as Bonfire. Can also keep 2cmc stuff in check (but then again Mimic could get pushed in by a Bonfire at low x-value and Ratchet Bomb is a question of whether Boros Charm should be used to save the board or go for the dome).
Mostly though, giving the finger to Chalice on the ASAP is something important to me right now.
Well, in a nut shell they printed some really powerful eldrazi. Thought-knot seer is a fairly strong card that is on par with Vendilion clique and is superior in some ways to the old staple. In eldrazi, it's fairly easy to get one out on turn 2, where as clique will usually only land turn 3. Clique has evasiveness via flying and has 3 power, but seer is a 4/4 ground beater that will probably mow down most creatures at 2 cmc like it's the texas chainsaw massacre. Clique sends a card to the bottom of an opponents library and then they get to draw. Seer exiles a card and they only get to draw if it actually dies.
If those two cards both came out on turn 3, I'd still say seer is superior. The fact it can easily get out on turn 2 with the full set of eldrazi lands is pure madness and that is just one example. Normally to get to that level of power we have to ramp with mana rocks or mana dorks like noble heirarch and even though affinity has fast mana, it still follows the rule of using a mana rock to do so. Also it's a legendary mana rock to boot.
The problem I'm running into is that if they axe both eldrazi lands than we got over costed eldrazi that suddenly lose a lot of value.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
well you can't play twin, sorry. i did say this would take some creativity to figure out after all. BUT instead of being salty you could take the other 56 cards of your splintertwin deck, which are still playable and modern legal as far as i know, and try to tweak them into a control/tempo deck with roasts and the like to kill eldrazi.
Been doing that for the last month. Best record so far after 5 events and an SCG Regional was 2-3. URx is hot garbage right now and with Eldrazi taking over the format (and Affinity as backup), it doesn't look good any time soon either.
I'm defending eldrazi adamantly as well for a stronger format. Ban or not IDC I'll beat nerd with any deck. However ensnaring bridge is only good vs diamond stompy. Green or the ur eldrazi will laugh at ur bridge if it's not backed up by answers to world breakers, hurkyls etc. The answer is in strong decks like the new puresteel matches up very well vs the entire meta
Personally speaking, I'm going to continue rockin' my Affinity deck and simply tweak SB options until I find what works. The thing that is making me laugh is that everybody is all "we need to figure out a deck that beats Eldrazi" but I think people are forgetting that the Eldrazi decks are only going to take up (maybe) 20-30% of the meta. So what do you do when you have to play Scapeshift, Living End or Ad Nauseum and they blow you out because you've focused all of your resources on an aggro deck that is basically flavor of the month? Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting the power of the Eldrazi decks but this widespread panic is hilarious to me.
"Only 20%-30% of the meta"...spot the part of that statement that's incredibly problematic and post it for me, please.
Eldrazi is also 40% of the MTGO metagame right now. Paper is a lot better at under 15%, at least for now. Also, it's worrisome that 15% is "better" than anything at this point. That's a problematic percentage based on past data.
"Only 20%-30% of the meta"...spot the part of that statement that's incredibly problematic and post it for me, please.
Eldrazi is also 40% of the MTGO metagame right now. Paper is a lot better at under 15%, at least for now.
Lots of buy-outs and price spikes will make paper growth slower. I know damn sure I would be playing it if I had the cards or they were reasonably priced. There are probably a lot of people that want to play it but simply can't find or can't afford to (or don't want to invest in a deck that will likely be banned).
well you can't play twin, sorry. i did say this would take some creativity to figure out after all. BUT instead of being salty you could take the other 56 cards of your splintertwin deck, which are still playable and modern legal as far as i know, and try to tweak them into a control/tempo deck with roasts and the like to kill eldrazi.
Been doing that for the last month. Best record so far after 5 events and an SCG Regional was 2-3. URx is hot garbage right now and with Eldrazi taking over the format (and Affinity as backup), it doesn't look good any time soon either.
Have you tried moving from Red towards Black?
If I had the cards to do so, I'd be working on a BUG Death's Shadow Delver pile.
It's totally baseless theorycraft, but BUG just feels like the place to be.
With Disrupting Shoal to head off T1 Chalice on the play so you can Thoughtseize turn 1 on the draw.
well you can't play twin, sorry. i did say this would take some creativity to figure out after all. BUT instead of being salty you could take the other 56 cards of your splintertwin deck, which are still playable and modern legal as far as i know, and try to tweak them into a control/tempo deck with roasts and the like to kill eldrazi.
Been doing that for the last month. Best record so far after 5 events and an SCG Regional was 2-3. URx is hot garbage right now and with Eldrazi taking over the format (and Affinity as backup), it doesn't look good any time soon either.
Have you tried moving from Red towards Black?
If I had the cards to do so, I'd be working on a BUG Death's Shadow Delver pile.
It's totally baseless theorycraft, but BUG just feels like the place to be.
With Disrupting Shoal to head off T1 Chalice on the play so you can Thoughtseize turn 1 on the draw.
I don't own any green cards or green lands. Personal problem, I know, but I figured after investing more than $1,000 into Twin, I wouldn't have to buy another $1,000 worth of lands and staples to compete. Trying to make URx work. It is a hobby after all; I'm not a pro and certainly don't have an unlimited budget.
I think a BW Control seems the way to go as it gives you the best card options to deal with a variety of decks in the format in general and the most to disrupt Eldrazi. . Disrupting Eldrazi's hands & managing their board state before they can disrupt yours is going to be key in knocking them off tilt, 2 things Black & White can do. Their midrange/long game is not the greatest since they top deck mode pretty regularly if you can make it past turn 3 or 4. Reality Smasher is their only trampler so he is obviously your biggest threat, IMO.
I feel like the people who think Eldrazi isn't an issue have not played with or against the deck yet.
Not only that but people are looking more towards single cards that can hose the deck instead of groups of cards that interact with deck to stall it out but still work well within the format as a whole.
well you can't play twin, sorry. i did say this would take some creativity to figure out after all. BUT instead of being salty you could take the other 56 cards of your splintertwin deck, which are still playable and modern legal as far as i know, and try to tweak them into a control/tempo deck with roasts and the like to kill eldrazi.
Been doing that for the last month. Best record so far after 5 events and an SCG Regional was 2-3. URx is hot garbage right now and with Eldrazi taking over the format (and Affinity as backup), it doesn't look good any time soon either.
Have you tried moving from Red towards Black?
If I had the cards to do so, I'd be working on a BUG Death's Shadow Delver pile.
It's totally baseless theorycraft, but BUG just feels like the place to be.
With Disrupting Shoal to head off T1 Chalice on the play so you can Thoughtseize turn 1 on the draw.
I don't own any green cards or green lands. Personal problem, I know, but I figured after investing more than $1,000 into Twin, I wouldn't have to buy another $1,000 worth of lands and staples to compete. Trying to make URx work. It is a hobby after all; I'm not a pro and certainly don't have an unlimited budget.
Please, at least you could flip Scalding Tarns for Misty Rainforests if you had to.
I guess Grixis could work as well (should be a lot cheaper than buying a fresh manabase that also calls for two different Zendikar fetches), the thing is that Black feels like a stronger color right now what with how bad Eldrazi makes Bolt look; when Bolt looks bad, it's usually a sign to move up to Doom Blades (or in the case of Grixis, Terminate) and the like rather than hanging on to Bolt.
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days since last Eldrazi-related accident.
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Havrekjex-I read "We don't test for modern" to mean their design space is not constrained by concerns for modern. A third possibility entirely.
I like the Eldrazi and was brewing heartless lists before the release of OGW and in three months will not be able to play any fair eldrazi decks and those people who hate the eldrazi will have to put up with it for a few months.
They do not test for any aspect of Modern. This has been made clear through several tweets from Forsythe and others. It explains why they banned Twin "for the sake of diversity" and then were surprised by an extreme reduction in diversity (80% aggro/combo) followed by utter domination of Eldrazi. It's clear Wizards does not do any testing of any form when it comes to Modern and simply reacts to what they think would be best. If they even hired some unpaid interns to playtest Modern, we'd be in a better spot than throwing darts at a board.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
this is kind of like dredge walking into a vintage tournament and winning just because nobody was expecting it to show up. when people are ready for it, it is tough for dredge to win the whole deal. this deck is 'like' affinity in how explosive it can be, but i might argue that cards to hate on eldrazi are a lot less specific than those that hate on affinity. removal will kill these creatures, nobody is ramping to 10 to newlamog your permanents any more it seems. the problem child is eldrazi mimic and it dies to everything. dismember is beyond solid right now and any deck can play it. i would play it anyways because it is great at what it does for one mana. all that needs to be done against the eldrazi is run them out of cards and save your land hate (if you have it) for the eye of ugin activations that will give the deck gas for the rest of the game if left unchecked.
as the eldrazi player, you can have the xmasland starts we saw on camera OR you can spend your time mulliganning (albeit very nicely) until you hit a hand with a sol land in it because if you keep one without, you are just playing a bad deck with overcosted creatures. chalice on 1 t1 is a lot more offensive to me than anything else the pro tour deck was doing.
this might sound silly but i believe now is a great time to pick up UWR control because of all these silly creature decks running around. counterspells are probably still bad to have in great numbers but i think some snapcastering and jacing back of removal will go a long way against the eldritch menace. i have most of the eldrazi deck together right now and i plan to design a controlling UWR deck to take it on because i believe it can win vs. that deck and therefore be in a great spot vs. most other creature decks out there. if tron is becoming obsolete because of eldrazi, the door is wide open for control to crush some souls.
tldr; cry less, brew more. stop waiting to suckle the teet of the netdecks and go get creative and try to solve this problem yourself. this is a brave new tentacle world we live in for at least 3 months.
Sure, any suggestions? The options in the "how to beat Eldrazi" thread aren't especially appetizing. I'm sure as hell not going to randomly board in Painter's Servant in Grixis. I'm already on Blood Moon, but unless they stumble on mana, it's typically a turn too late.
I would love for the chance to attack it with Splinter Twin. Until then though, there is not much outside of wholly uninteractive prison decks that effectively deal with Eldrazi.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Because prison is a horrible archetype. It should be available if people want to play it, but it turns a lot of people off of a format (far more than it brings in). Prison should always be a deck choice but it should never be an optimal choice. Ensnaring Bridge and by extension prison is the most viable choice right now. Actually, I came to a thought last night, wondering how well Ensnaring Bridge would work alongside SSG to power it out on T2. That's a good meta solution, but not good for format health.
Dismember is how you beat it. Once you stop the mimics from turning on once they usually lose gas. The problem is turn 2 spellskite into turn 3 smasher then. those draws are often impossible to beat unless you have a fast clock as well.
you surely did read the tldr; but there was something worthwhile in the novel i wrote above. i did mention trying out control, it's what i plan to do. i think attacking the manabase of eldrazi is not the key to beating them. do you attack the manabase of affinity that dumps its hand out extremely early? you could kill a blinkmoth but don't expect to win the game. i think playing broad, efficient removal like dismember and path (which i also mentioned) is key. i don't think sideboarding is what you need to do to beat this deck, because quite frankly there isn't a sideboard card in existence that is going to make enough of a difference to swing the match in your favor. i think playing a mainboard that is adapted to it's presence is more likely what will be successful. that is why i am experimenting with control again.
well you can't play twin, sorry. i did say this would take some creativity to figure out after all. BUT instead of being salty you could take the other 56 cards of your splintertwin deck, which are still playable and modern legal as far as i know, and try to tweak them into a control/tempo deck with roasts and the like to kill eldrazi.
I'm thinking of preboarding my Bonfires of the Damned for Engineered Explosives in Boros.
Shores up my fear of Chalice for 1. Incidentally splash-hates Endless Ones. Serves much the same role of asymmetric boardwipe as Bonfire. Can also keep 2cmc stuff in check (but then again Mimic could get pushed in by a Bonfire at low x-value and Ratchet Bomb is a question of whether Boros Charm should be used to save the board or go for the dome).
Mostly though, giving the finger to Chalice on the ASAP is something important to me right now.
If those two cards both came out on turn 3, I'd still say seer is superior. The fact it can easily get out on turn 2 with the full set of eldrazi lands is pure madness and that is just one example. Normally to get to that level of power we have to ramp with mana rocks or mana dorks like noble heirarch and even though affinity has fast mana, it still follows the rule of using a mana rock to do so. Also it's a legendary mana rock to boot.
The problem I'm running into is that if they axe both eldrazi lands than we got over costed eldrazi that suddenly lose a lot of value.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Infraction for trolling
-ktkenshinx-
Been doing that for the last month. Best record so far after 5 events and an SCG Regional was 2-3. URx is hot garbage right now and with Eldrazi taking over the format (and Affinity as backup), it doesn't look good any time soon either.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Eldrazi is also 40% of the MTGO metagame right now. Paper is a lot better at under 15%, at least for now. Also, it's worrisome that 15% is "better" than anything at this point. That's a problematic percentage based on past data.
Lots of buy-outs and price spikes will make paper growth slower. I know damn sure I would be playing it if I had the cards or they were reasonably priced. There are probably a lot of people that want to play it but simply can't find or can't afford to (or don't want to invest in a deck that will likely be banned).
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Have you tried moving from Red towards Black?
If I had the cards to do so, I'd be working on a BUG Death's Shadow Delver pile.
It's totally baseless theorycraft, but BUG just feels like the place to be.
With Disrupting Shoal to head off T1 Chalice on the play so you can Thoughtseize turn 1 on the draw.
I don't own any green cards or green lands. Personal problem, I know, but I figured after investing more than $1,000 into Twin, I wouldn't have to buy another $1,000 worth of lands and staples to compete. Trying to make URx work. It is a hobby after all; I'm not a pro and certainly don't have an unlimited budget.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Not only that but people are looking more towards single cards that can hose the deck instead of groups of cards that interact with deck to stall it out but still work well within the format as a whole.
Please, at least you could flip Scalding Tarns for Misty Rainforests if you had to.
I guess Grixis could work as well (should be a lot cheaper than buying a fresh manabase that also calls for two different Zendikar fetches), the thing is that Black feels like a stronger color right now what with how bad Eldrazi makes Bolt look; when Bolt looks bad, it's usually a sign to move up to Doom Blades (or in the case of Grixis, Terminate) and the like rather than hanging on to Bolt.