Yea and it looks like Paulo got him locked up anyway.
I'll be real interested when all these are over, because I think the results may show people came in droves with eldrazi and it did not pay off. I know the last undefeated in Melbourne was living end, which I have called out as being eldrazis foil for a while now.
We all know Living End beats Eldrazi. That doesn't make the format any less busted. There's this strange misconception that for a deck to be broken in Modern, it needs to be totally unbeatable. Deathrite BGx, BGx Pod, URx Delver, and URx Twin all had plenty of bad matchups and still got banned for format diversity. This current Modern is at least as broken as that. Probably significantly, wildly more warped than that. The fact that there's a good matchup vs. Eldrazi doesn't mean anything with these kinds of outrageous numbers that have continued to be true since the PT.
Then it becomes:
Processor Eldrazi eats Living End
Aggro Eldrazi bats Processor Eldrazi
Affinity beats Aggro Eldrazi
Living end beats Aggro Eldrazi
Which in a meta is still stupid. I think the Processor deck was fine in the old pre-Aggro meta since it preyed on Grixis, Jund, Abzan, Goryo's Vengeance, and Living End while getting killed by fast aggro decks.
The problem seems that the two decks share the same mana base and will both die as a result.
What would happen if Twin, Pod, DR, Stoneforge, JTMS got unbanned? Would that help with diversity? I don't think Stoneblade decks would be fast enough against Eldrazi. Pod might do really well, but TKS and Reality Smasher can fight through the bigger and bigger guys. Twin will probably lose if they don't combo off by turn 5, and even then, with Kozielk's return, that's not a guarantee. Jund might be 50/50 though. And of course Affinity is still around.
I'll start off by saying if Stoneblade becomes unbanned this to me will occur:
And to be honest, just replace Archer with a bird and with JTMS no.
It's easier to extend the ban list, and wait until Eldrazi Aggro Tron becomes a potential problem in the NWO. The larger question is whether Processor can survive.
Processor only existed because of the lands. Period. It is an otherwise underwhelming deck that is moreso a bad tron list. Any land ban will kill any remnant of that deck.
Processor only existed because of the lands. Period. It is an otherwise underwhelming deck that is moreso a bad tron list. Any land ban will kill any remnant of that deck.
That's a misconception. I played B/W Eldrazi before Oath came out. They were more like Jund decks with a tron endgame, and as a result could eat 'goyf and snapcaster decks alive, while losing to aggro and tron. The new versions are affinity/Jund...with a tron endgame. They don't have any real weaknesses other than being big dumb creature decks with broken lands.
Hi there. Sorry for being late to this thread. For me at least, the Eldrazi controversy has a silver lining as it led me to start coding in C++ (which might be the promising beginning of a healthy C++ addiction). After watching the Pro Tour, I set out to write a small program which loops over all combinations of P cards taken from a deck with N cards exactly once and then checks each of these combinations against a sequenced list of possible card scenarios. To wit, the code tries to emulate a player who scans their opening hand (or mulligan, or a hand with 1+ card draws if so desired) for a good line of play, prioritizing certain lines over others. With this, I wanted to see how consistently an Eldrazi deck gets certain plays.
I just want to say thank you! people like you do a great service for the whole community.
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Top 8 Melbourne: 3 Eldrazi. UW Eldrazi v. UW Eldrazi finals
Top 8 Bologna: 5 Eldrazi. UW Eldrazi v. UW Eldrazi finals
Top 8 Detroit: 6 Eldrazi. Finals TBD.
Can we change the name of this thread? "Controversy" sounds really naive at this point. Maybe "Eldrazi Disaster Thread"? Or "Temporary death of Modern because of stupid Eldrazi thread"? Or "Of course this happened, you silly naysyers thread"?
Also posted in modern banlist thread, and the gp weekend thread...
From the interview with forsythe at gp detroit. Typing as listening, so some is paraphrased cause I can't type fast enough...
"we are definitely going to take some executive action regarding the banlist."
"the best thing for magic is happy players."
"our goal is not going to be to nuke the eldrazi deck from existence."
"I don't think the goal is necessarily to make sure nothing like this happens again. we would like the eldrazi deck to be some part of modern...it's just too efficient now."
"My goal is to make sure some form of the deck exists..."
"I'm leaning heavily toward something needs to be banned from the deck."
"Nothing has been decided"
"Has the emergence of this deck made you want to test modern more? The return on that investment is never going to be good. The odds of us having productive playtesting...we are just going to stick with our normal processes when making cards."
"The process has been working fine up till this point, and I expect it will work fine past this point."
"Has the emergence of this deck made you want to test modern more? The return on that investment is never going to be good. The odds of us having productive playtesting...we are just going to stick with our normal processes when making cards."
"The process has been working fine up till this point, and I expect it will work fine past this point."
Really? The process has never been fine. This is maybe the most disappointing thing I have read all day. The format has had a ton of bans, only missing them in 2012, and usually they result in entire decks dying a painful death. If the best thing for magic is happy players than hire a few of them to test the damn format for you.
Let's speculate the bans and what they would do if an individual piece got banned. Since Forescythe made it clear he doesn't want it to be obliterated. I'm going to be looking at the 5 staples. Eye, Temple, Mimic, TKS, and Smasher, which are the core pieces to the deck and in each variation. Keep in mind, banning any of the lands I think will see a rise in the Tron version.
1.Ban Eye of Ugin
If you ban Eye of Ugin, can the deck still be played? Yes. It'll still allow for Turn 2 TKS, Turn 3 Smasher, but at a very low consistency. Most likely, Eye will be replaced by Vesuva, to ramp, however, since it comes into play tapped, any godlike draws will be mitigated a turn later. It also absolutely hurts the R/G version as they either pack in 4 World Breakers, or don't bother at all, and just dig with Ancient Stirrings. Banning Eye will most likely make the deck tier 2, and usually that just means a FNM deck and no more. The loss of tutoring for anything is also a huge loss for the deck, and more than likely kill the Tron version as well.
2.Ban Temple of Eldrazi
Same deal with Eye of Ugin, however, at an even worse rate for consistency. The Turn 1, 2, 3, will effectively be destroyed. Since Eye has the Legendary rule, drawing two with the same hand or topdecking an Eye of Ugin is a bad thing. This hurts the U/W version much more than the G/R version because Displacer tricks now use much more lands and mana to tap around. Vesuva also wouldn't be bothered with since copying an Eye of Ugin is pointless. If they ban Temple of Eldrazi, I think the deck is done for, and it switches to a Urza Land version. And at that point, Conduit of Ruin will see more play.
3. Ban Eldrazi Mimic
There's no reason to ban this card. It's there, along with Endless One, and doesn't do much. It'll probably just get replaced by Matter Reshaper or Exploration Map.
4. Ban Thought-Knot Seer
Banning TKS is a way to make the Eldrazi deck still stick around, still be tier 1, but severely weaken the deck. Without TKS it makes Eldrazi even more vulnerable to various combo and control decks. There's no replacement for the card either. If TKS is banned, I think Eldrazi will return to the Processor version and pack in more removal, Thoughtseize, Duress, and other black control cards. The U/W version loses it's discard, and either plays counterspells, make it become Esper (essentially a 4 color deck), or dies. There's also that odd Turn 1 and 2 for the Eldrazi player to play something. They have to play color to get another piece or play removal, or they play another Eldrazi land to possibly get a 4/4 Endless One triggering 2 Eldrazi Mimics in play to deal the 12 damage. However, they won't be able to take away any removal. It still allows for the explosive start, but allows for more interaction from the other player. That said, banning TKS would open up Blight Herder or Matter Reshaper.
Would a Turn 1 Mimic, Turn 2 Reshaper, Turn 3 Smasher be that bad?
5 Reality Smasher
I personally don't think it does that much but it stops all the 15 damage in turn 3. Which is what makes Eldrazi, Eldrazi. It's a fair card and needs to have a really good draw and a good hand to be able to set up the huge bash to the face. Banning Reality Smasher wouldn't do too much to the consistency of the deck, and is clearly not the problem when it can be easily replaced by Endbringer, Bane of Gala Ged, Conduict, or Blight Herder.
Thoughts? I understand that Eye and Temple are the ones to go, but if Wizard is hellbent on keeping the deck around, what other alternatives can they have? I personally think if any of the lands go, it's going to switch to a Tron version of the deck, which is something I wouldn't like. Having another deck stuck in Tier 1 or 2 would already diversify the meta.
The only cards that have any chance and deservedly so should be the lands. Thought knot seer seems broken not because it's a broken card it appears so when it is played on turn 2 and triggers any number of mimics in play, this is all because of fast mana a single TKS on turn 4 is by no means a problem, hell an entire deck was created that won with a 4 mana spell so a disruptive 4/4 has no place being banned.
i think its quite obvious all the ***** footing and foot dragging with regards to banning the eldrazi archetype is to keep the Oath sales moving.
standard players who had the cards before the eldrazi archetype exploded were able to cross into modern and 'farm' both formats with minimal investment.
i think its quite obvious all the ***** footing and foot dragging with regards to banning the eldrazi archetype is to keep the Oath sales moving.
standard players who had the cards before the eldrazi archetype exploded were able to cross into modern and 'farm' both formats with minimal investment.
You say this like it is unexpected, like WOTC does not want to sell cards. WOTC should enable standard players to transition into modern with the cards they are using as a base, and quite honestly many modern decks are using a lot of formally standard pieces with the exception often times of the manabase. And low and behold look at what they are talking about banning. Mana bases are by far the most restrictive part of any magic format and whenever we get a new one like eldrazi it opens up so many possibilities to get new players in, which is why this all bothers me so much.
Abzan companies core is like a bunch of recent cards, and like maybe 2 copies of a single mythic. Affinity is very cheap outside of Mox and Ravager, cards that hold value for other formats. Living end is a bunch of bulk commons works well even with a budget mana base.
When all these past modern banning happened, none of them affected the mana base like the eldrazi land banning would do. Cloudpost was the only one close, and that gave birth to tron being a deck, but in that case there was clearly a substitute for the land. Some could go ahead and argue that tron is even better that cloudpost in individual match ups, all things equal. Nothing is going to replace the eldrazi lands at least until wotc prints "fixed" eldrazi lands in a future set, if that were to ever happen.
The only cards that have any chance and deservedly so should be the lands. Thought knot seer seems broken not because it's a broken card it appears so when it is played on turn 2 and triggers any number of mimics in play, this is all because of fast mana a single TKS on turn 4 is by no means a problem, hell an entire deck was created that won with a 4 mana spell so a disruptive 4/4 has no place being banned.
I liken it to Blood Braid Elf. Who itself isn't broken at all. But rather, is the one card that pushed Jund much stronger than it should be. Jund is still strong, but BBE pushes it past strong. Same with TKS. It's completely balanced, but pushes the Eldrazi deck much further than it should be.
i think its quite obvious all the ***** footing and foot dragging with regards to banning the eldrazi archetype is to keep the Oath sales moving.
standard players who had the cards before the eldrazi archetype exploded were able to cross into modern and 'farm' both formats with minimal investment.
You say this like it is unexpected, like WOTC does not want to sell cards.
i call myself naive that wotc would warp multiple format's metagame to 'sell cards'.
having dealt with multiple companies both in the analog and digital world, i have seen how low some companies would swoop to for 'sales'. never did i expect wotc to swoop THIS low.
at least now i have all my roses tinted glasses off when it comes to wotc. i was a bit skeptical before but i think now i am a full blown cynic of wotc's r&d processes when it comes to constructed play and how they manage their competitive formats.
banning twin and bloom was just an avenue for eldrazi to take center stage during the pro tour. so no deck can obstruct the archetype's dominance apart from affinity which in itself is the same deck abstractly.
Just ban Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple and it should be fine. This will slow the deck down (if not kill-I wouldn't mind that) and making it slower at least is what has to be done. They should give us some more time to interact with the deck which you really can't when you face turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer and turn 3 Reality Smasher.
We know AF won't kill the deck. (one of very few things we can be certain about) His personal goal was stated to be banning something (not plural) to bring it down to size, but definitely leave it as a relevant deck in modern.
I've got this niggling feeling it'll be temple, as do many players in my area. However that might just get people jumping over to UR versions ala JC Tao's PT winner.
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wizards assessment of Nacatl was actually correct, it is so good that it is a auto include in any aggro deck that could support it so no the argument wasn't fallacious.
Okay, then ban Lightning Bolt on that same principle. Something being an "auto include" in a bunch of decks is not a good reason to ban it.
Changing your mind based on outcomes is not a clear sign of being wrong on the assessment; it is simply the logical action of corrective action based on observed outcomes. Wizards banned Nacatl left a window of time to observe if the hypothesis regarding the out come of the ban proved valid; it didn't and they then unbanned nacatl. again not because the assessment of nacatl was incorrect but because the outcome was in conflict to the desired outcome; instead of banning allowing various decks to fill the void it simply left a void.
Except if the outcome is not what was claimed, then you were still wrong. I don't now why you keep insisting that they were right when they clearly were not. They said Wild Nacatl was holding other aggro decks down, and it wasn't.
If the same is true of splinter twin and within 6 months to 1 year new URx decks have not surfaced as competitive options then the precedent set with past bannings/unbannings would suggest that they will then remove splinter twin from the banned list.
Or they could have just not banned it in the first place and saved themselves the trouble.
another point worth noting is that this is the same justification for the banning of pod; pod decks were so much better than any other option available that it stifled the existence of other mid-range creature decks. the outcome of the banning was a flourishing of various mid range creature decks. again the same assessment, the same methodology for rectifying the issue, simply in this experiment it had the desired affect. will the experiment with the banning of twin provide a positive or negative outcome neither you, I, or anyone else knows only time will tell, but again the assessment made by wizards is justified regardless of whether or not the desired outcome is produced from the banning.
No, it was not the same justification for Birthing Pod. Birthing Pod got banned because it was so much better than everything else in the format (except for Delver, which was also highly problematic). There's a key difference between something actually being substantially better than everything else (including decks not of the same variety) and something just happening to be the best in its particular category.
my assertion that you are making a straw man argument is because you are saying "wrong about nacatl; hence wrong about twin" while selectively ignoring the fact that the same justification was used for other bans that actually provided the desired outcome. hence the argument is easily blown down with but a breath.
Except, again, the same justification was not used for other bans, so the "breath" that supposedly blows down the argument doesn't blow it down at all. Birthing Pod was banned because it (along with Delver) had overtaken the entire format. You either played them or you played something that could beat them. That is hardly true for Splinter Twin, as shown by the multiple Tier 1 decks that had a poor Twin matchup.
Or to put it another way, the problem with Birthing Pod was not the question of "why would I play any other midrange deck instead of this?" The problem with Birthing Pod was the question of "why would I play anything instead of this or Delver?"
More importantly, the argument is not that they were wrong about Wild Nacatl and therefore were wrong about Splinter Twin. My contention is that banning something because it's supposedly a better version of other decks is inherently a bad reason, and the outcome of the Wild Nacatl banning is just an example of such.
If you try to put some tribal deck together you inevitably have to answer the question of why you're not playing Merfolk, because it's the best tribal strategy. Those weaker tribal strategies don't somehow become good if you ban Merfolk, the best tribal strategy. The reason Tribal Bears doesn't see play (goofy stuff like playing it while in a bear suit aside) isn't because Merfolk is somehow suppressing it, it's because the deck isn't good enough to compete in the format, so banning Merfolk doesn't help it out. Similarly, if you ban Wild Nacatl because Zoo supposedly was suppressing other aggro decks because it was so good, those other aggro decks don't become good because they have the same problems they did before that kept them from being good. The aggro deck that was good after the banning was Affinity, which coincidentally was good before the banning.
So the basic argument that Splinter Twin had to go because it was supposedly the best URx deck and was preventing the others from seeing play is wrong for that same reason: It doesn't actually improve those decks. It doesn't solve any of the problems they had. They don't rise up; they stay where they are. In fact, the banning makes them worse off because it removes what was a favorable matchup for them.
The key phrase there was "that have an unfavorable match up". Twin is the inverse; it actually gets preyed on by other URx decks.
When Pod disappeared the creature decks it was defeating easily could be played again. in the case of twin, a case was made where URx decks are not diverse because, why not just play twin?
its being pointed out to you now that this reasoning was wrong, because URx decks were weak by no fault of Twin. Twin wasn't defeating them roundly; it was simply the version with the most solid win con. Removing Twin therefore didn't promote the playing of other URx decks, because it didn't make them any more viable than they were before.
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Let's speculate the bans and what they would do if an individual piece got banned. Since Forescythe made it clear he doesn't want it to be obliterated. I'm going to be looking at the 5 staples. Eye, Temple, Mimic, TKS, and Smasher, which are the core pieces to the deck and in each variation. Keep in mind, banning any of the lands I think will see a rise in the Tron version.
1.Ban Eye of Ugin
If you ban Eye of Ugin, can the deck still be played? Yes. It'll still allow for Turn 2 TKS, Turn 3 Smasher, but at a very low consistency. Most likely, Eye will be replaced by Vesuva, to ramp, however, since it comes into play tapped, any godlike draws will be mitigated a turn later. It also absolutely hurts the R/G version as they either pack in 4 World Breakers, or don't bother at all, and just dig with Ancient Stirrings. Banning Eye will most likely make the deck tier 2, and usually that just means a FNM deck and no more. The loss of tutoring for anything is also a huge loss for the deck, and more than likely kill the Tron version as well.
2.Ban Temple of Eldrazi
Same deal with Eye of Ugin, however, at an even worse rate for consistency. The Turn 1, 2, 3, will effectively be destroyed. Since Eye has the Legendary rule, drawing two with the same hand or topdecking an Eye of Ugin is a bad thing. This hurts the U/W version much more than the G/R version because Displacer tricks now use much more lands and mana to tap around. Vesuva also wouldn't be bothered with since copying an Eye of Ugin is pointless. If they ban Temple of Eldrazi, I think the deck is done for, and it switches to a Urza Land version. And at that point, Conduit of Ruin will see more play.
3. Ban Eldrazi Mimic
There's no reason to ban this card. It's there, along with Endless One, and doesn't do much. It'll probably just get replaced by Matter Reshaper or Exploration Map.
4. Ban Thought-Knot Seer
Banning TKS is a way to make the Eldrazi deck still stick around, still be tier 1, but severely weaken the deck. Without TKS it makes Eldrazi even more vulnerable to various combo and control decks. There's no replacement for the card either. If TKS is banned, I think Eldrazi will return to the Processor version and pack in more removal, Thoughtseize, Duress, and other black control cards. The U/W version loses it's discard, and either plays counterspells, make it become Esper (essentially a 4 color deck), or dies. There's also that odd Turn 1 and 2 for the Eldrazi player to play something. They have to play color to get another piece or play removal, or they play another Eldrazi land to possibly get a 4/4 Endless One triggering 2 Eldrazi Mimics in play to deal the 12 damage. However, they won't be able to take away any removal. It still allows for the explosive start, but allows for more interaction from the other player. That said, banning TKS would open up Blight Herder or Matter Reshaper.
Would a Turn 1 Mimic, Turn 2 Reshaper, Turn 3 Smasher be that bad?
5 Reality Smasher
I personally don't think it does that much but it stops all the 15 damage in turn 3. Which is what makes Eldrazi, Eldrazi. It's a fair card and needs to have a really good draw and a good hand to be able to set up the huge bash to the face. Banning Reality Smasher wouldn't do too much to the consistency of the deck, and is clearly not the problem when it can be easily replaced by Endbringer, Bane of Gala Ged, Conduict, or Blight Herder.
Thoughts? I understand that Eye and Temple are the ones to go, but if Wizard is hellbent on keeping the deck around, what other alternatives can they have? I personally think if any of the lands go, it's going to switch to a Tron version of the deck, which is something I wouldn't like. Having another deck stuck in Tier 1 or 2 would already diversify the meta.
If you dont get how powerful mimic is Then you should try the deck without it and with it. Eye + mimic is the only problem
Then it becomes:
Processor Eldrazi eats Living End
Aggro Eldrazi bats Processor Eldrazi
Affinity beats Aggro Eldrazi
Living end beats Aggro Eldrazi
Which in a meta is still stupid. I think the Processor deck was fine in the old pre-Aggro meta since it preyed on Grixis, Jund, Abzan, Goryo's Vengeance, and Living End while getting killed by fast aggro decks.
The problem seems that the two decks share the same mana base and will both die as a result.
I'll start off by saying if Stoneblade becomes unbanned this to me will occur:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sYrG-3YwTw
And to be honest, just replace Archer with a bird and with JTMS no.
It's easier to extend the ban list, and wait until Eldrazi Aggro Tron becomes a potential problem in the NWO. The larger question is whether Processor can survive.
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That's a misconception. I played B/W Eldrazi before Oath came out. They were more like Jund decks with a tron endgame, and as a result could eat 'goyf and snapcaster decks alive, while losing to aggro and tron. The new versions are affinity/Jund...with a tron endgame. They don't have any real weaknesses other than being big dumb creature decks with broken lands.
I just want to say thank you! people like you do a great service for the whole community.
5-6 of 8 Eldrazi in Top 8 Detroit
What a joke.
G Elves
U Merfolk
/sarcasm
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Top 8 Bologna: 5 Eldrazi. UW Eldrazi v. UW Eldrazi finals
Top 8 Detroit: 6 Eldrazi. Finals TBD.
Can we change the name of this thread? "Controversy" sounds really naive at this point. Maybe "Eldrazi Disaster Thread"? Or "Temporary death of Modern because of stupid Eldrazi thread"? Or "Of course this happened, you silly naysyers thread"?
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
From the interview with forsythe at gp detroit. Typing as listening, so some is paraphrased cause I can't type fast enough...
"we are definitely going to take some executive action regarding the banlist."
"the best thing for magic is happy players."
"our goal is not going to be to nuke the eldrazi deck from existence."
"I don't think the goal is necessarily to make sure nothing like this happens again. we would like the eldrazi deck to be some part of modern...it's just too efficient now."
"My goal is to make sure some form of the deck exists..."
"I'm leaning heavily toward something needs to be banned from the deck."
"Nothing has been decided"
"Has the emergence of this deck made you want to test modern more? The return on that investment is never going to be good. The odds of us having productive playtesting...we are just going to stick with our normal processes when making cards."
"The process has been working fine up till this point, and I expect it will work fine past this point."
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Really? The process has never been fine. This is maybe the most disappointing thing I have read all day. The format has had a ton of bans, only missing them in 2012, and usually they result in entire decks dying a painful death. If the best thing for magic is happy players than hire a few of them to test the damn format for you.
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1.Ban Eye of Ugin
If you ban Eye of Ugin, can the deck still be played? Yes. It'll still allow for Turn 2 TKS, Turn 3 Smasher, but at a very low consistency. Most likely, Eye will be replaced by Vesuva, to ramp, however, since it comes into play tapped, any godlike draws will be mitigated a turn later. It also absolutely hurts the R/G version as they either pack in 4 World Breakers, or don't bother at all, and just dig with Ancient Stirrings. Banning Eye will most likely make the deck tier 2, and usually that just means a FNM deck and no more. The loss of tutoring for anything is also a huge loss for the deck, and more than likely kill the Tron version as well.
2.Ban Temple of Eldrazi
Same deal with Eye of Ugin, however, at an even worse rate for consistency. The Turn 1, 2, 3, will effectively be destroyed. Since Eye has the Legendary rule, drawing two with the same hand or topdecking an Eye of Ugin is a bad thing. This hurts the U/W version much more than the G/R version because Displacer tricks now use much more lands and mana to tap around. Vesuva also wouldn't be bothered with since copying an Eye of Ugin is pointless. If they ban Temple of Eldrazi, I think the deck is done for, and it switches to a Urza Land version. And at that point, Conduit of Ruin will see more play.
3. Ban Eldrazi Mimic
There's no reason to ban this card. It's there, along with Endless One, and doesn't do much. It'll probably just get replaced by Matter Reshaper or Exploration Map.
4. Ban Thought-Knot Seer
Banning TKS is a way to make the Eldrazi deck still stick around, still be tier 1, but severely weaken the deck. Without TKS it makes Eldrazi even more vulnerable to various combo and control decks. There's no replacement for the card either. If TKS is banned, I think Eldrazi will return to the Processor version and pack in more removal, Thoughtseize, Duress, and other black control cards. The U/W version loses it's discard, and either plays counterspells, make it become Esper (essentially a 4 color deck), or dies. There's also that odd Turn 1 and 2 for the Eldrazi player to play something. They have to play color to get another piece or play removal, or they play another Eldrazi land to possibly get a 4/4 Endless One triggering 2 Eldrazi Mimics in play to deal the 12 damage. However, they won't be able to take away any removal. It still allows for the explosive start, but allows for more interaction from the other player. That said, banning TKS would open up Blight Herder or Matter Reshaper.
Would a Turn 1 Mimic, Turn 2 Reshaper, Turn 3 Smasher be that bad?
5 Reality Smasher
I personally don't think it does that much but it stops all the 15 damage in turn 3. Which is what makes Eldrazi, Eldrazi. It's a fair card and needs to have a really good draw and a good hand to be able to set up the huge bash to the face. Banning Reality Smasher wouldn't do too much to the consistency of the deck, and is clearly not the problem when it can be easily replaced by Endbringer, Bane of Gala Ged, Conduict, or Blight Herder.
Thoughts? I understand that Eye and Temple are the ones to go, but if Wizard is hellbent on keeping the deck around, what other alternatives can they have? I personally think if any of the lands go, it's going to switch to a Tron version of the deck, which is something I wouldn't like. Having another deck stuck in Tier 1 or 2 would already diversify the meta.
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
standard players who had the cards before the eldrazi archetype exploded were able to cross into modern and 'farm' both formats with minimal investment.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
You say this like it is unexpected, like WOTC does not want to sell cards. WOTC should enable standard players to transition into modern with the cards they are using as a base, and quite honestly many modern decks are using a lot of formally standard pieces with the exception often times of the manabase. And low and behold look at what they are talking about banning. Mana bases are by far the most restrictive part of any magic format and whenever we get a new one like eldrazi it opens up so many possibilities to get new players in, which is why this all bothers me so much.
Abzan companies core is like a bunch of recent cards, and like maybe 2 copies of a single mythic. Affinity is very cheap outside of Mox and Ravager, cards that hold value for other formats. Living end is a bunch of bulk commons works well even with a budget mana base.
When all these past modern banning happened, none of them affected the mana base like the eldrazi land banning would do. Cloudpost was the only one close, and that gave birth to tron being a deck, but in that case there was clearly a substitute for the land. Some could go ahead and argue that tron is even better that cloudpost in individual match ups, all things equal. Nothing is going to replace the eldrazi lands at least until wotc prints "fixed" eldrazi lands in a future set, if that were to ever happen.
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They already did, Shrine of the Forsaken Gods.
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
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I liken it to Blood Braid Elf. Who itself isn't broken at all. But rather, is the one card that pushed Jund much stronger than it should be. Jund is still strong, but BBE pushes it past strong. Same with TKS. It's completely balanced, but pushes the Eldrazi deck much further than it should be.
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
i call myself naive that wotc would warp multiple format's metagame to 'sell cards'.
having dealt with multiple companies both in the analog and digital world, i have seen how low some companies would swoop to for 'sales'. never did i expect wotc to swoop THIS low.
at least now i have all my roses tinted glasses off when it comes to wotc. i was a bit skeptical before but i think now i am a full blown cynic of wotc's r&d processes when it comes to constructed play and how they manage their competitive formats.
banning twin and bloom was just an avenue for eldrazi to take center stage during the pro tour. so no deck can obstruct the archetype's dominance apart from affinity which in itself is the same deck abstractly.
Active thread contributor of Jeskai Prowess Tempo
We know AF won't kill the deck. (one of very few things we can be certain about) His personal goal was stated to be banning something (not plural) to bring it down to size, but definitely leave it as a relevant deck in modern.
I've got this niggling feeling it'll be temple, as do many players in my area. However that might just get people jumping over to UR versions ala JC Tao's PT winner.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
well actually yes birthing pod was banned for format diversity reasons. "The high percentage of the field playing Pod suppresses decks, especially other creature decks, that have an unfavorable matchup. In the interest of supporting a diverse format, Birthing Pod is banned."http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/banned-and-restricted-announcement-2015-01-19
When Pod disappeared the creature decks it was defeating easily could be played again. in the case of twin, a case was made where URx decks are not diverse because, why not just play twin?
its being pointed out to you now that this reasoning was wrong, because URx decks were weak by no fault of Twin. Twin wasn't defeating them roundly; it was simply the version with the most solid win con. Removing Twin therefore didn't promote the playing of other URx decks, because it didn't make them any more viable than they were before.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
If you dont get how powerful mimic is Then you should try the deck without it and with it. Eye + mimic is the only problem
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island