Three to five drop planeswalkers have always had to do something godlike to even be considered playable in modern due to the fear of the turn 4 twin win. Now that twin is banned, I feel like there are some planeswalkers that can see the light. Please discuss what kind of deck that the planeswalker can fit into.
Underrated planeswalkers
1: Jace, Architect of thought: Can probably see play in UW(x) control/tempo decks and stops lingering souls, great card advantage, and game winning ult is nice too. I use him in Fae.
2: Elspeth, Knight-Errant: Considered to be the fourth greatest planeswalker due to her army in a can, leap to creatures that struggle to get dmg through (Geist of Saint Traft for example), and that both abilities are plus counters on her.
3: Ajani Vengeant: Perhaps not so underrated now that UWR control is picking up steam but this card should see more play due to it's tremendous power at stalling games out. Ult is game ending
4: Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver: Idk why this card doesn't see more play when it has proven results. This should see even more play now that aggro is heavier in the meta. Sees some play in UB faeries and in UB eldrazi.
5: Chandra, Flamecaller: I know that this card seems like an odd conclusion since there is Keranos, god of storms but this card seems more relevant now that more aggo is in the meta due to her boardwipe immediately as well as being a fast wincon. Good in sideboard for Grixis based decks.
6: Chandra, Pyromaster: Best Chandra should be seeing more play in a Grixis Midrange/jund style deck when the card gives a free card on cast and gets a creature though.
7: Elspeth, Sun's Champion: Already kinda sees play in sideboard for UW midrange but I thought it needed to be highlighted anyway.
8: Gideon Jura: Great sideboard card that does well into any aggro matchup. At worst he buys you a turn. At best he gets blinked via Restoration Angel
9: Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: A token monster that puts up 7 dmg the next turn that he drops. Should see more play in tokens/UW(x) control decks to be honest. Closes games fast and gives emergency anthem.
10: Liliana, Defiant Necromancer: While she takes some setup, when she gets going the value doesn't end. Should see play in aristocrats, Podless pod and return to the ranks style decks.
11: Nissa, Voice of Zendikar: A new player to modern that blocks for days, gives a gavony township effect and her ult wins the game. A control variant of Knightfall can make this card see play now that oath of nissa is a card. Scapeshift can also make use of this card.
12: Ob Nixilis Reignited: A sideboard card for grixis/Jund that dominates fair matchups. Boring abilities but gets the job done.
13: Sorin, Lord of Innistrad: Saw play in the Esper Mentor deck due to his instant anthem abilities and he puts a token there for emergency blocks.
16: Kiora, Master of the Depths: A reletivley new planeswalker that should see some play in Sultai midrange kind of decks due to her: feeding goyf/Origins's Jace/Tasigur with her minus ability and her plus having good synergy with mana dorks.
17: Jace Beleren: Sees some play in Time Walk but he should see a little more play since he gives you so much card advantage. Hard to protect but has a high pay off.
I have long thought that Chandra, Pyromaster has been way underplayed in modern. However, she does go in a very specific deck type. I think Gideon Jura and Jace AOT are great in the UXx Control decks as well. Basically if Jeskai control or UWx control become a better choice a lot of these will see play.
I also think Nissa, Worldwaker will begin to see some play in Mono Green Devotion decks as well as other big mana decks.
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is another one that could be a sleeper if UBx becomes a thing or a Grixis deck.
Scapeshift seems like a decent home for New nissa. Personally, I would try Nissa, Sage Animist even though I know that it's slow.
Both have their perks and drawbacks. My motivation for Voice is that chumping can be hugely beneficial for Scapeshift to draw the opponent into Pyroclasm or Anger, and to effectively Sphinx Rev at max devotion is huge since Scapeshift generally doesn't have main deck life gain.
No loves for Kiora, the Crashing Wave? I admit, Modern may not be the best home, but from Standard and Commander I have never been sorry to play her. Her first ability is good defense, her middle ability is card advantage, and her ultimate is huge and very reachable with her design and in her colors.
Planeswalkers on the whole: I'm itching to run some and I've been dying to build a Sultai Control with Kiora, Jace, and Ashiok. Unfortunately, the meta is filling up with turn-3 kill aggro decks now, making grindy decks that favor walkers a tough sell.
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No loves for Kiora, the Crashing Wave? I admit, Modern may not be the best home, but from Standard and Commander I have never been sorry to play her. Her first ability is good defense, her middle ability is card advantage, and her ultimate is huge and very reachable with her design and in her colors.
Planeswalkers on the whole: I'm itching to run some and I've been dying to build a Sultai Control with Kiora, Jace, and Ashiok. Unfortunately, the meta is filling up with turn-3 kill aggro decks now, making grindy decks that favor walkers a tough sell.
The issue I have with her is that the new kiora fits what sultai wants to do better and gives immediate value. Idk what deck Kiora TCW fits in that the new kiora doesnt do better tbh.
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My response is that I believe no planeswalkers have suddenly become good because Twin wasn't keeping those planeswalkers down. However, what really confuses me is why someone would pose Jace, Architect of Thought or Gideon Jura, considering their abilities actually make them incredibly safe to tap out for against a Twin deck.
Even better, Utopia Sprawl on a Breeding Pool, so you can generate infinite GU. The better to deck your opponent with Blue Sun's Zenith.
I'd love to build this deck, but a Goblin Guide, Wild Nacatl, and a couple of Bolts brings me back to reality.
Yep! Breeding Pool and Misty Rainforest would be a must. The deck would have a decent amount of redundancy as well. Fertile Ground could play the role of additional Utopia Sprawls, albeit at one more mana. In addition to Blue Sun's Zenith, Green Sun's Zenith would be an all-star, acting as Arbor Elf's 5-8 (at one more mana) and as a way to tutor a win-con once we go infinite. A single Voyaging Satyr could be thrown in case you're worried that Arbor Elf will get hit with Surgical Extraction, but it's probably not necessary. Simian Spirit Guide's would be useful to help speed up Fertile Ground and Green Sun's Zenith into Arbor Elf for more consistent turn 2 or 3 wins. Pact of Negation would be great for added protection, and we'll even have enough ramp to often pay the upkeep cost if need be. Unfortunately, Freed from the Real would be the weakest link, with no good redundant alternatives or quick ways to search for it. Still though, there's a good amount of redundancy in the deck, and it's in the right colors to pull it off.
That said, Arbor Elf has to stick around for a turn to work, and there's no good way of avoiding that. Bolt's, Path's, and discard would ruin our day. Plus, it's a three card combo (4 including a win-con).
Somewhat back on topic, Kiora, Master of the Depths wouldn't be the worst card for the deck, but she probably isn't necessary. The rest of the slots will need to be devoted to counter and dig spells in order for this deck to stand a chance.
My response is that I believe no planeswalkers have suddenly become good because Twin wasn't keeping those planeswalkers down. However, what really confuses me is why someone would pose Jace, Architect of Thought or Gideon Jura, considering their abilities actually make them incredibly safe to tap out for against a Twin deck.
I find this hard to believe when there was literally a deck that saw 10-14 percent of the meta and it prevented you from tapping out. Also Jace, Archtect of thought only saved you from Exarch and not from pestermite.
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Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: I'm really impressed by Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. He's very good in everything it can do, he can swing for 5 and only fear PtE, he can create 2/2 tokens all days and be safe from Bolt, or he can get an emblem right away the turn he joins in. I'm testing it in my UWR and he performs very well. Swinging for 5 without tapping a single land is fantastic for this shell, since it often counts on winning by Colonnade beats, and it requires 5 mana for each attack and that greatly reduces the amount of things UWR can do after the attack.
Nissa, Voice of Zendikar: She's honestly very strong and I could see Scapeshift use her to Pump Jump the fair decks while ramping to victory. Turn 3 Nissa + 0/1 Token + Countermagic is huge. Definitely worth trying.
I personally would love to see Narset Transcendent as an U player but the lack of personal defense makes her nearly unplayable in this meta. I hope the WoTC does something to make the meta better in the future.
I probably should have listed Narset Transcendent because I think she fits in tokens or Time walk very well.
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I personally play Ashiok, Sorin lord of innistrad Super Friends. Ashiok is deadly. It generates so much value against creature decks and the nuke the hand and graveyard ability makes combo and control very hard to play. Lord of Innistrad can use his tokens to play defensive and can instantly switch to beatdown with tokens and plus anthem.
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I used to play Narset, she's not as good as you think she would be. The plus ability generates a card around 60%-70% of the time. The retrace ability isn't as good. (During standards, they rebound dig through time. I use her to rebound gifts ungiven, which isn't that great. The up side about her is she comes in with +7 loyality which is huge.
I don't think the time walk deck is playable right now given how fast the meta is.
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Elspeth is great in standard, but she's not that great in modern. the majority of the creatures don;t cost 4 toughness or more. Secondly, the tokens don't have flying. I seen Celesnial Colonade, Thundermull, siege rhino etc all make a joke out of her. Also, 6 mana cost is just way too slow
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Elspeth is great in standard, but she's not that great in modern. the majority of the creatures don;t cost 4 toughness or more. Secondly, the tokens don't have flying. I seen Celesnial Colonade, Thundermull, siege rhino etc all make a joke out of her. Also, 6 mana cost is just way too slow
Umm you do know that UWR uses this elspeth on sideboard constantly as a 1 of in order to deal with Eldrazi midrange and with Jund/grixis/abzan because she shines in grindy matchups? The UWR control list that got top 16 ran her as a 1 of in sideboard. So you are just wrong lol.
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I used to play Narset, she's not as good as you think she would be. The plus ability generates a card around 60%-70% of the time. The retrace ability isn't as good. (During standards, they rebound dig through time. I use her to rebound gifts ungiven, which isn't that great. The up side about her is she comes in with +7 loyality which is huge.
I don't think the time walk deck is playable right now given how fast the meta is.
Pros have said that Time Walk is usable since it wins automatically turn 5 with one time walk. It runs cards that slow aggro. (hurcal's recall, gigadrowse, aetherize, remand, cryptic command, Hibernation, chalice of the void.)
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Chandra Pyromancer has already seen play so I'm assuming you are talking about Chandra, Flamecaller. How is this card bad when she comes in and can: wipe the board, give 6 dmg on board, and does a wheel impression (to feed grixis). Again she would be a sideboard card like Elspeth, Sun's Champion where she shines against fair decks.
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I dont Know bout Ajani 2. He did very bad most of the times i faced him. He usually died the turn after he got played.
He bolts then dies or locks 1 creature only to buy time. No thanx when there is Elspeth 1 & Gideon 3 Ally. Both of them gather a board over few turns & leave something behind especially Gideon. & they win quickly by themselves. I see Ajani muchvfurther behind.
Nissa seems quite potent too. Green white has remarkable Planeswalkers. Turn 1 bird turn 2 Nissa turn 3:Glare.
I dont Know bout Ajani 2. He did very bad most of the times i faced him. He usually died the turn after he got played.
He bolts then dies or locks 1 creature only to buy time. No thanx when there is Elspeth 1 & Gideon 3 Ally. Both of them gather a board over few turns & leave something behind especially Gideon. & they win quickly by themselves. I see Ajani muchvfurther behind.
Nissa seems quite potent too. Green white has remarkable Planeswalkers. Turn 1 bird turn 2 Nissa turn 3:Glare.
Ajani 2 got top 16 at a huge tournament 2 weeks ago and has had a history of success in UWR control so idk about that. Different strokes for different folks.
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Underrated planeswalkers
1: Jace, Architect of thought: Can probably see play in UW(x) control/tempo decks and stops lingering souls, great card advantage, and game winning ult is nice too. I use him in Fae.
2: Elspeth, Knight-Errant: Considered to be the fourth greatest planeswalker due to her army in a can, leap to creatures that struggle to get dmg through (Geist of Saint Traft for example), and that both abilities are plus counters on her.
3: Ajani Vengeant: Perhaps not so underrated now that UWR control is picking up steam but this card should see more play due to it's tremendous power at stalling games out. Ult is game ending
4: Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver: Idk why this card doesn't see more play when it has proven results. This should see even more play now that aggro is heavier in the meta. Sees some play in UB faeries and in UB eldrazi.
5: Chandra, Flamecaller: I know that this card seems like an odd conclusion since there is Keranos, god of storms but this card seems more relevant now that more aggo is in the meta due to her boardwipe immediately as well as being a fast wincon. Good in sideboard for Grixis based decks.
6: Chandra, Pyromaster: Best Chandra should be seeing more play in a Grixis Midrange/jund style deck when the card gives a free card on cast and gets a creature though.
7: Elspeth, Sun's Champion: Already kinda sees play in sideboard for UW midrange but I thought it needed to be highlighted anyway.
8: Gideon Jura: Great sideboard card that does well into any aggro matchup. At worst he buys you a turn. At best he gets blinked via Restoration Angel
9: Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: A token monster that puts up 7 dmg the next turn that he drops. Should see more play in tokens/UW(x) control decks to be honest. Closes games fast and gives emergency anthem.
10: Liliana, Defiant Necromancer: While she takes some setup, when she gets going the value doesn't end. Should see play in aristocrats, Podless pod and return to the ranks style decks.
11: Nissa, Voice of Zendikar: A new player to modern that blocks for days, gives a gavony township effect and her ult wins the game. A control variant of Knightfall can make this card see play now that oath of nissa is a card. Scapeshift can also make use of this card.
12: Ob Nixilis Reignited: A sideboard card for grixis/Jund that dominates fair matchups. Boring abilities but gets the job done.
13: Sorin, Lord of Innistrad: Saw play in the Esper Mentor deck due to his instant anthem abilities and he puts a token there for emergency blocks.
14: Sorin, Solemn Visitor: Sees play in Tokens but should see more play due to his obnoxious synergy with lingering souls
15: Nissa, Worldwaker: When you need a 5th garruk wildspeaker Nissa can do that and put up some creatures to win the game. Great synergy with darksteel citadel
16: Kiora, Master of the Depths: A reletivley new planeswalker that should see some play in Sultai midrange kind of decks due to her: feeding goyf/Origins's Jace/Tasigur with her minus ability and her plus having good synergy with mana dorks.
17: Jace Beleren: Sees some play in Time Walk but he should see a little more play since he gives you so much card advantage. Hard to protect but has a high pay off.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
There's a part of me that wants to live the dream and try and build a combo deck that uses Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, Kiora, Master of the Depths and Freed from the Real to go infinite mana T3.
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Scapeshift seems like a decent home for New nissa. Personally, I would try Nissa, Sage Animist even though I know that it's slow.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I have long thought that Chandra, Pyromaster has been way underplayed in modern. However, she does go in a very specific deck type. I think Gideon Jura and Jace AOT are great in the UXx Control decks as well. Basically if Jeskai control or UWx control become a better choice a lot of these will see play.
I also think Nissa, Worldwaker will begin to see some play in Mono Green Devotion decks as well as other big mana decks.
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is another one that could be a sleeper if UBx becomes a thing or a Grixis deck.
Very cool topic.
Both have their perks and drawbacks. My motivation for Voice is that chumping can be hugely beneficial for Scapeshift to draw the opponent into Pyroclasm or Anger, and to effectively Sphinx Rev at max devotion is huge since Scapeshift generally doesn't have main deck life gain.
Want to be a better Magic player? Read the rulings forum and check out the comprehensive rules!
Planeswalkers on the whole: I'm itching to run some and I've been dying to build a Sultai Control with Kiora, Jace, and Ashiok. Unfortunately, the meta is filling up with turn-3 kill aggro decks now, making grindy decks that favor walkers a tough sell.
The issue I have with her is that the new kiora fits what sultai wants to do better and gives immediate value. Idk what deck Kiora TCW fits in that the new kiora doesnt do better tbh.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Don't you mean turn 2? You don't even need Kiora for that.
Turn 1: Forest, Arbor Elf
Turn 2: Another Forest, and Utopia Sprawl attached to the untapped Forest naming Blue. Tap the enchanted Forest for a G and U. Use Arbor Elf to untap it for another G and U. Spend GGU to attach Freed from the Real to Arbor Elf. Use the last U to untap the Arbor Elf. Infinite green mana, no Kiora needed, turn 2.
I'd love to build this deck, but a Goblin Guide, Wild Nacatl, and a couple of Bolts brings me back to reality.
Yep! Breeding Pool and Misty Rainforest would be a must. The deck would have a decent amount of redundancy as well. Fertile Ground could play the role of additional Utopia Sprawls, albeit at one more mana. In addition to Blue Sun's Zenith, Green Sun's Zenith would be an all-star, acting as Arbor Elf's 5-8 (at one more mana) and as a way to tutor a win-con once we go infinite. A single Voyaging Satyr could be thrown in case you're worried that Arbor Elf will get hit with Surgical Extraction, but it's probably not necessary. Simian Spirit Guide's would be useful to help speed up Fertile Ground and Green Sun's Zenith into Arbor Elf for more consistent turn 2 or 3 wins. Pact of Negation would be great for added protection, and we'll even have enough ramp to often pay the upkeep cost if need be. Unfortunately, Freed from the Real would be the weakest link, with no good redundant alternatives or quick ways to search for it. Still though, there's a good amount of redundancy in the deck, and it's in the right colors to pull it off.
That said, Arbor Elf has to stick around for a turn to work, and there's no good way of avoiding that. Bolt's, Path's, and discard would ruin our day. Plus, it's a three card combo (4 including a win-con).
Somewhat back on topic, Kiora, Master of the Depths wouldn't be the worst card for the deck, but she probably isn't necessary. The rest of the slots will need to be devoted to counter and dig spells in order for this deck to stand a chance.
I find this hard to believe when there was literally a deck that saw 10-14 percent of the meta and it prevented you from tapping out. Also Jace, Archtect of thought only saved you from Exarch and not from pestermite.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I didn't list Vraska because she only has one great ability.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I probably should have listed Narset Transcendent because I think she fits in tokens or Time walk very well.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I don't think the time walk deck is playable right now given how fast the meta is.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Umm you do know that UWR uses this elspeth on sideboard constantly as a 1 of in order to deal with Eldrazi midrange and with Jund/grixis/abzan because she shines in grindy matchups? The UWR control list that got top 16 ran her as a 1 of in sideboard. So you are just wrong lol.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Pros have said that Time Walk is usable since it wins automatically turn 5 with one time walk. It runs cards that slow aggro. (hurcal's recall, gigadrowse, aetherize, remand, cryptic command, Hibernation, chalice of the void.)
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Chandra Pyromancer has already seen play so I'm assuming you are talking about Chandra, Flamecaller. How is this card bad when she comes in and can: wipe the board, give 6 dmg on board, and does a wheel impression (to feed grixis). Again she would be a sideboard card like Elspeth, Sun's Champion where she shines against fair decks.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
He bolts then dies or locks 1 creature only to buy time. No thanx when there is Elspeth 1 & Gideon 3 Ally. Both of them gather a board over few turns & leave something behind especially Gideon. & they win quickly by themselves. I see Ajani muchvfurther behind.
Nissa seems quite potent too. Green white has remarkable Planeswalkers. Turn 1 bird turn 2 Nissa turn 3:Glare.
Ajani 2 got top 16 at a huge tournament 2 weeks ago and has had a history of success in UWR control so idk about that. Different strokes for different folks.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Spirits