With the addition of Oath of Nissa to the modern format, I'd like to discuss the possibility/viability of a superfriends deck in modern. I feel the two oaths worth consideration are Nissa's and Oath of Gideon although I could see the argument for not playing Oath of Gideon at all. Do you think this sort of strategy could have legs? And what would be the best walkers to use in such a deck?
Honestly, I think the format may be too fast for a super friends build, but I could be really wrong. The other issue is the Oaths are basically a timewalk on the critical turn 3, where you should be dropping either removal, a wipe, or the ever-present 3cc walker Lili of the Veil. Between her, Ajani Vengeant, and Gideon Jura, very few other walkers have had the relevant power level to really affect the outcome/be relevant in a modern game.
I think oath of chandra needs to be considered. It does 3 damage to a creature, and leads off to lilliana being 3 mana target player sacs a creature and takes 2. Prevent damage from 1 source that would be dealt to you. Ajani does 5 damage and gains you 3.
@Lans: I did consider Oath of Chandra, and I like it as early removal, it is certainly on the maybe list depending on what colors the deck uses.
I agree that the main issue facing superfriends thus far has been that it is too slow. As such, I think a base green ramp deck is the way to go. Cards like Hierarch, birds, Sylvan Caryatid, and even overgrown battlement can protect you from aggro and ramp you into any 4cc walker on turn three w/ an Oath of Nissa, or any green walker 5 or less w/ no oath but two ramp creatures (barring removal of course).
The Walkers that I see being viable plays in a ramp deck that can play pw of any color are:
Any of the three Elspeths (Creature generation/wraths) Liliana of the veil (removal and discard) Gideon Jura (meatshield that protects you and your other walkers, can also kill off problem creatures) Vraska, the Unseen (removal for anything you want gone) Sarkhan Unbroken (ramp and card draw along w/ creature generation)
Both Kioras (Ramp and card draw, and Crashing Wave has the ability to fog down your opponent's biggest hitter) Garruck Wildspeaker (ramp and tokens) Ajani Vengeant (lock down, burn, relevant ultimate) Jace, Architect of thought (locks down 1/x's and lets you draw cards)
Karn/Ugin/Bolas as your top end? These may be too expensive outside of a tron shell but they are the win clinchers.
I think that a deck with early ramp/defense and the ability to drop pw after pw in the mid to late game would have legs against fast aggro, midrange, and control while struggling against linear decks like tron and storm. I don't feel such a deck would be format breaking, I am just curious if it is even a viable strategy now that you can play any pw you want in it for the low cost of making a 1 mana green ponder a 4-of and tossing in a few mana creatures. What are your guys thoughts? And do you think there are any missed inclusions or cards that shouldn't be there in my list of PW above?
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
New Nissa wouldn't be terrible as she is an early Walker threat that can spam blockers (albiet 0/1 plant tokens) and once she gets to ult she can refill your hands with cards? I totally agree that Super Friends are likely too slow for the meta but I think it'd be really cool if there was a Super Friends style deck in the format.
that's....not a superfriends deck, not even 60 cards?
Did I count the total wrong? It looks like 60 cards to me. I'd also argue that you would be hard pressed to find a deck in the format that has better friends than this one.
Been mucking around with the following. Oath of Gideon breaks some walkers who are balanced around only being able to minus once, Oath of Nissa is the best ponder in Modern (and makes you immune to Blood Moon in this deck, hah), and some decks lose on the spot to Ensnaring Bridge. T1 bird/hierarch into T2 Oath/3Walker or Souls into T3 4Walker is amazing, and you have tons of bodies to gum up attackers. You can sideboard into Leylines (can't bolt walkers!) and Slaughter Games and Stony Silences to fix almost every weak match up, couple lifegain cards and burn is fine as well.
There was a Superfriends list on SGC from last year, it did okay at an event. It was Bant. The price tag was your average deck, around $500. I feel that Super Friends has a future, but with the current meta pushing for fast aggro it would take Infect and Affinity being nerfed.
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Life is a beautiful engineer, yet a brutal scientist.
I honestly play an Esper deck that is as close to super friends in modern as possible. I mainboard 3 Ashioks and 3 Lord of Innistrads. I sideboard into Gifts Ungiven package to deal with all the degenerate turn 4 aggro decks. If you want to play this deck, I can send you my dekc list
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Hey all, I've actually been putting a list together and have found it to be really powerful, full of great synergies. My current list is
4x Noble hiearch
2x Birds of paradise
3x voice of resurgence
2x Tarmogoyf
3x Kitchen Finks
3x Nissa, voice of Zendikar
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
2x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3x Ajani Steadfast
1x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
4x Oath of Nissa
2x Oath of Gideon
4x Path to Exile
2x Mutavault
1x Gavony Township
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Tec Edge
19x coloured sources
Please excuse my inability to tag ;_;
G/W with early ramp, selection, and great synergies amongst the planeswalkers.
The problem with super friends decks is that they don't block and walkers are high mana so they have real problems removing the opponents threats. Until there's a good number of walkers that both add mana so you can play a walker and remove something and block the archetype won't really go anywhere.
RUG is the best colors for the deck. Garruk Wildspeaker, Ral Zarek, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, and Sarkhan Unbroken fulfill the requirements of dealing with the opponents board (or blocking), and creating mana. The curve is seriously screwed up though, there needs to be some good 3 mana options. If you're in white, Venser, the Sojourner also qualifies as a 5 mana option but it's probably not worth the 4th color.
The archetype is 1 3 mana planeswalker away from becoming viable. Nissa, Vastwood Seer gets real close but is a bit too slow for what's going on in Modern right now.
Just a thought on the overall idea of superfriends, Venser, the Sojourner plus Gideon Jura can create a pretty solid lock against most creature decks if you can live long to get them both out. Especially if you already have a oath of Gideon out. I know that with eldrazi aggro crawling everywhere right now a slow superfriends deck has no prayer in modern but I'm going to keep trying to brainstorm as I think the archetype could have promise. Basically, I think Oath of Nissa is for PW what eye and temple are for eldrazi, there's not quite enough for it at first printing, but down the line it'll work very well w/ some new things that get printed, and I think as more pw get printed every set we're bound to see the archetype eventually.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I think you want to run a deck with lots of removal/sweepers and only a few PWs as finishers in this current meta. I like the Ensnaring Bridge idea.
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These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
I have a superfriends deck here i've been brewing.. It's a superfriend proliferation idea. I'd post the list here, but I have a better well put together list over at tappedout.net where you can read all the synergies I went for with the deck. Would love suggestions.
The deck was released before seeing the speed of the new Eldrazi horrors that came to be.. I know I need more MB removal and all that jazz.. So I don't know where to go with it now.
That is a really cool looking list! I do thing the proliferate cards (while cool) should probably be more answers/sweepers/counters, and I still like the idea of including Gideon Jura and monopolizing on Oath of Nissa, but that is an awesome direction superfriends could go. The sad thing is I think as long aggrodrazi, infect, and affinity are running everywhere superfriends does not have a good opening to break into the meta. I would say for now, max out supreme verdicts and go for more discard/paths to try to survive long enough to get the walkers out. If you try out the Venser/Gideon lock let me know if it works and good luck!
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
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RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Some people also like to combo PWs with Doubling Season or Savor the Moment.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
@Lans: I did consider Oath of Chandra, and I like it as early removal, it is certainly on the maybe list depending on what colors the deck uses.
I agree that the main issue facing superfriends thus far has been that it is too slow. As such, I think a base green ramp deck is the way to go. Cards like Hierarch, birds, Sylvan Caryatid, and even overgrown battlement can protect you from aggro and ramp you into any 4cc walker on turn three w/ an Oath of Nissa, or any green walker 5 or less w/ no oath but two ramp creatures (barring removal of course).
The Walkers that I see being viable plays in a ramp deck that can play pw of any color are:
Any of the three Elspeths (Creature generation/wraths)
Liliana of the veil (removal and discard)
Gideon Jura (meatshield that protects you and your other walkers, can also kill off problem creatures)
Vraska, the Unseen (removal for anything you want gone)
Sarkhan Unbroken (ramp and card draw along w/ creature generation)
Both Kioras (Ramp and card draw, and Crashing Wave has the ability to fog down your opponent's biggest hitter)
Garruck Wildspeaker (ramp and tokens)
Ajani Vengeant (lock down, burn, relevant ultimate)
Jace, Architect of thought (locks down 1/x's and lets you draw cards)
Karn/Ugin/Bolas as your top end? These may be too expensive outside of a tron shell but they are the win clinchers.
I think that a deck with early ramp/defense and the ability to drop pw after pw in the mid to late game would have legs against fast aggro, midrange, and control while struggling against linear decks like tron and storm. I don't feel such a deck would be format breaking, I am just curious if it is even a viable strategy now that you can play any pw you want in it for the low cost of making a 1 mana green ponder a 4-of and tossing in a few mana creatures. What are your guys thoughts? And do you think there are any missed inclusions or cards that shouldn't be there in my list of PW above?
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
4x Bonded Construct
4x Ember Beast
4x Jackal Familiar
4x Loyal Pegasus
4x Mogg Flunkies
4x Sightless Brawler
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Fortify
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
4x Outnumber
4x Clifftop Retreat
7x Mountain
7x Plains
Where's the 'walkers?
that's....not a superfriends deck, not even 60 cards?
Did I count the total wrong? It looks like 60 cards to me. I'd also argue that you would be hard pressed to find a deck in the format that has better friends than this one.
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Forest
1 Gideon Jura
1 Godless Shrine
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Oath of Gideon
4 Oath of Nissa
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Overgrown Tomb
3 Path to Exile
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Sarkhan Vol
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
Oh wow that card is way better. I'm going to make the switch asap! I found I was using Fortify for its plus effect the most anyway.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
4x Noble hiearch
2x Birds of paradise
3x voice of resurgence
2x Tarmogoyf
3x Kitchen Finks
3x Nissa, voice of Zendikar
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
2x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3x Ajani Steadfast
1x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
4x Oath of Nissa
2x Oath of Gideon
4x Path to Exile
2x Mutavault
1x Gavony Township
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Tec Edge
19x coloured sources
Please excuse my inability to tag ;_;
G/W with early ramp, selection, and great synergies amongst the planeswalkers.
RUG is the best colors for the deck. Garruk Wildspeaker, Ral Zarek, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, and Sarkhan Unbroken fulfill the requirements of dealing with the opponents board (or blocking), and creating mana. The curve is seriously screwed up though, there needs to be some good 3 mana options. If you're in white, Venser, the Sojourner also qualifies as a 5 mana option but it's probably not worth the 4th color.
The archetype is 1 3 mana planeswalker away from becoming viable. Nissa, Vastwood Seer gets real close but is a bit too slow for what's going on in Modern right now.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/hyper-friends-1/
The deck was released before seeing the speed of the new Eldrazi horrors that came to be.. I know I need more MB removal and all that jazz.. So I don't know where to go with it now.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"