The format is flooded with Eldrazi, so what? It's been less than a month... Give it time, the format will stabilize. Eye of Ugin is not overpowered, as someone mentioned, if it's gone, Heartless Summoning will be used instead or some strictly worse alternative, which will be no means, slow the deck down to the extent you foresee. Furthermore, Eye of Ugin had prevalence in Tron before the banning, and was still balanced. Would also say that regardless of whether Twin existed in this format or not, Eldrazi would still be just as good.
actually using Heartless Summoning over Eye is a HUGE nerf, this enchancement not only kills mimics and Eldrazi Scions on the spot(they'll be removed from the deck), but also requires you to commit T2(1 with guide) to it meaning that you begin casting creatures by T3 and finally the -1/-1 to all creatures means that even things like reality smasher are now 4/4 therefore smaller than the average goyf or that seer can be bolted
Heartless Eldrazi is a T2 deck, Colorless Eldrazi is a T0 deck
Is there a Tier 0 deck section on this forum? I feel like they need to get on that.
Format Patrol: "Get on the ground, let me see your green cards!"
Eldrazi Decks: "We just got here... We have our credentials though..."
Format Patrol: "No, we don't like your kind! Not after the assassination of Splinter Twin!"
Eldrazi Decks: "We die to land destruction and mass removal... We mean no harm..."
Format Patrol: "Now that Twin is gone, we need new police! Get on the ground! There are too many of yer kind!"
Eldrazi Decks: "How come Grishoalbrand, Affinity, Infect, Bogles, Restore Balance and Living End get to have all the fun?"
How does land destruction work exactly when you can (with the best hand) cast your big stuff on turn 2?
Land destruction didn't work with Bloom... and that was not as consistent lol.
Let's be real here. Given Wizards' track record, either Eye or Temple, or both, WILL be banned. Discounting the World Championships, the deck has already put up more results than Treasure Cruise powered Delver and any deck that had Dig Through Time. If Wizards didn't give the meta time to deal with TC or DTT--two cards which enabled a diverse range of decks, and which were far more hate-able by mainstream strategies than Eldrazi--why on earth should we think they'll allow Eldrazi to survive a ban announcement?
The format is flooded with Eldrazi, so what? It's been less than a month... Give it time, the format will stabilize. Eye of Ugin is not overpowered, as someone mentioned, if it's gone, Heartless Summoning will be used instead or some strictly worse alternative, which will be no means, slow the deck down to the extent you foresee. Furthermore, Eye of Ugin had prevalence in Tron before the banning, and was still balanced. Would also say that regardless of whether Twin existed in this format or not, Eldrazi would still be just as good.
So getting multiple free spells on turn 1 and 2 is "fair"?
Eye of ugin is the very definition of an unfair card. I'm not sure how people can argue otherwise. Although I agree no ban should take place till April, one most likely will occur.
Multiple free spells? Hmm, are you sure you aren't thinking of Affinty or Grishoalbrand? They have very aggressive turn ones... Eye of Ugin is not unfair. I would argue Eldrazi Temple is more powerful in the context of that deck, especially since Eye of Ugin is Legendary and can't provide mana on its own without Urborg being in play. It's only really powerful in that deck because of the cards that compliment it's stagnant effect... Simply put, I'd rather see a turn one Urborg and Relic, and a turn two Eye and Wasteland Strangler than a turn one Eldrazi Temple, Eldrazi Mimic/Endless One, Turn Two Eldrazi temple no. two and Thought-Knot Seer... Pick your poison, but Eye of Ugin certainly won't kill you.
Can not provide mana on its own... so multiple turn 1 mimics never happen? You are absolutly right.
Also
Turn 1 mimics would still happen even if Eye was Banned
Turn 1 three mimics doesn't happen if Eye is banned though and that's what is important.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
let's ignore the colorless mana requirement and say we can run them in any deck, would anyone play them?
Endless One honestly with a typical moder manabase composed of fetch/shock/manlands and basics this card is plainly bad, unplayable, even in Tron he's just a dumb beater, a Wurmcoil Engine is much preferable to a 7/7 Endless One by T3
Eldrazi Mimic this guy dies to anything and if he's not followed next turn by 4/4 and 5/5 creatures he just attacks for 2, while he can't block anything...not even close to being a good card unless your deck casts 5/5 for fun
Reality Smasher colorless Thundermaw Hellkite? smasher is more resilinet while the dragon is more evasive, can block flyers and can kill oposing x/1 flyers, they're roughly even with smasher having a small edge?
which leaves us with Thought-Knot Seer, ok this is a good creature, but still T4 is too late for disruption, the most relevant cards will probably have been cast anyways... unless it's not T4...
Cards are much more often banned because of interactions rather than raw power level. Only a handful of cards in Modern are banned because of raw power level (SFM, JTMS, GSZ, Skullclamp, etc.). Golgari Grave Troll is a janky card in all but one deck. I'm not sure this is the best argument. That doesn't mean I disagree, though, that banning a creature or two from the Eldrazi decks is not a likely outcome. Using past rationalizations, they're going to ban the enabler(s).
WotC being WotC though, I still think they're either going to hone in on something entirely off the radar of the majority, or they'll kick into "everything is fine" mode.
The latter would be ok if anything effective gets spoiled for SoI. Not that I want to bet on the appropriate silver bullets showing up in the next set, but I wouldn't put it past WotC to have worked up some sort of contingency plan in the event of Eldrazi oversaturation. They don't test for Modern onward, but they are definitely aware of those formats and are willing to just throw stuff into the fray as long as it doesn't ruin Standard, for better or worse.
Please tell me the odds of having an Ugin and three Mimics and a reality smasher all in the same opening hand are?
Does it really matter? The point is that an explosive hand like that can happen because Eye passively gives 2 mana and eye makes the deck consistent. When Eye is banned, eldrazi will still have explosive hands with temples but they will be rare like infect hands.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
Let's be real here. Given Wizards' track record, either Eye or Temple, or both, WILL be banned. Discounting the World Championships, the deck has already put up more results than Treasure Cruise powered Delver and any deck that had Dig Through Time. If Wizards didn't give the meta time to deal with TC or DTT--two cards which enabled a diverse range of decks, and which were far more hate-able by mainstream strategies than Eldrazi--why on earth should we think they'll allow Eldrazi to survive a ban announcement?
I think the main argument most are having is not whether or not something from Eldrazi gets banned at all, it's whether it gets emergency banned soon or Wizards waits until April; giving us three Modern GPs and two months of FNMs to deal with the Eldrazi mess ourselves.
Let's be real here. Given Wizards' track record, either Eye or Temple, or both, WILL be banned. Discounting the World Championships, the deck has already put up more results than Treasure Cruise powered Delver and any deck that had Dig Through Time. If Wizards didn't give the meta time to deal with TC or DTT--two cards which enabled a diverse range of decks, and which were far more hate-able by mainstream strategies than Eldrazi--why on earth should we think they'll allow Eldrazi to survive a ban announcement?
Given their track record I'm sure they'll also ban something in affinity, most likely plating.
Let's be real here. Given Wizards' track record, either Eye or Temple, or both, WILL be banned. Discounting the World Championships, the deck has already put up more results than Treasure Cruise powered Delver and any deck that had Dig Through Time. If Wizards didn't give the meta time to deal with TC or DTT--two cards which enabled a diverse range of decks, and which were far more hate-able by mainstream strategies than Eldrazi--why on earth should we think they'll allow Eldrazi to survive a ban announcement?
Given their track record I'm sure they'll also ban something in affinity, most likely plating.
"As of late, we've noticed that matches have been ending too quickly. In light of this, we have decided to unban Sensei's Divining Top. However, as we do not want shuffling effects in combination with Top, we have decided to also ban the fetchland cycles from Zendikar and Onslaught/Khans of Tarkir."
"Also, the next event promo will be Eye of Ugin. kthxbai."
I assume pretty much all the players who claim for the Eye of Ugin ban just never played with or against the decks we saw at the Protour. Those players surely didn't play any eldrazi archetype seriously, maybe they just tried one to see basic openings, and that's it.
With all the respect we owe to one another, I feel embarrassed to see so many panic haters in the MTG community, here or anywhere else.
4-8 legendary lands, weak to land destruction, weak to sweepers, with obvious unfavorable MUs, these decks just took one narrow tournament by surprise and next-leveled the field.
Many decks kill faster and in a more consistent manner than aggro eldrazi archetypes. Who complains ? Certainly not the pilots of these Tier 1-2 archetypes.
Moreover, the comparison with Ancient Tomb is very superficial (i.e. in a vacuum). Tomb is a broken card in 2 insanely powerful formats, Legacy and Vintage. Tomb allows crazy things on T1-2. Eye doesn't reach as much power in this restricted format that is Modern. The comparison is catchy but deceitful.
The success of Eldrazi overshadows the other pillar of the tournament: Affinity, which tops 8-16 in every big tournament or so. Who complaisn ? Not Affi players, and probably not the rest of us because this T3 kill deck has been accepted after all, someway or another.
In short words, Eldrazi decks don't need a ban of any kind before we see what happens in a couple months. Players just over-react to what was a very surprising event. The ban may occur, but doesn't need to. It won't solve any issue players have with Modern anyway.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Let's be real here. Given Wizards' track record, either Eye or Temple, or both, WILL be banned. Discounting the World Championships, the deck has already put up more results than Treasure Cruise powered Delver and any deck that had Dig Through Time. If Wizards didn't give the meta time to deal with TC or DTT--two cards which enabled a diverse range of decks, and which were far more hate-able by mainstream strategies than Eldrazi--why on earth should we think they'll allow Eldrazi to survive a ban announcement?
Given their track record I'm sure they'll also ban something in affinity, most likely plating.
Eldrazi is SO much more ridiculously strong than Affinity AND has a hard time being hated on. A quick plating ban doesn't currently make any sense at all.
I assume pretty much all the players who claim for the Eye of Ugin ban just never played with or against the decks we saw at the Protour. Those players surely didn't play any eldrazi archetype seriously, maybe they just tried one to see basic openings, and that's it.
With all the respect we owe to one another, I feel embarrassed to see so many panic haters in the MTG community, here or anywhere else.
4-8 legendary lands, weak to land destruction, weak to sweepers, with obvious unfavorable MUs, these decks just took one narrow tournament by surprise and next-leveled the field.
Many decks kill faster and in a more consistent manner than aggro eldrazi archetypes. Who complains ? Certainly not the pilots of these Tier 1-2 archetypes.
Moreover, the comparison with Ancient Tomb is very superficial (i.e. in a vacuum). Tomb is a broken card in 2 insanely powerful formats, Legacy and Vintage. Tomb allows crazy things on T1-2. Eye doesn't reach as much power in this restricted format that is Modern. The comparison is catchy but deceitful.
The success of Eldrazi overshadows the other pillar of the tournament: Affinity, which tops 8-16 in every big tournament or so. Who complaisn ? Not Affi players, and probably not the rest of us because this T3 kill deck has been accepted after all, someway or another.
In short words, Eldrazi decks don't need a ban of any kind before we see what happens in a couple months. Players just over-react to what was a very surprising event. The ban may occur, but doesn't need to. It won't solve any issue players have with Modern anyway.
This is probably the most intelligent post on this thread. I couldn't agree more... I won't dispute that Eldrazi is very, very good, but to say it's worthy of an E-Ban is absurd... Thanks for shedding some common sense into this forum.
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If at first you forget to maximize the swag, git gud, you filthy casul...
I assume pretty much all the players who claim for the Eye of Ugin ban just never played with or against the decks we saw at the Protour. Those players surely didn't play any eldrazi archetype seriously, maybe they just tried one to see basic openings, and that's it.
With all the respect we owe to one another, I feel embarrassed to see so many panic haters in the MTG community, here or anywhere else.
4-8 legendary lands, weak to land destruction, weak to sweepers, with obvious unfavorable MUs, these decks just took one narrow tournament by surprise and next-leveled the field.
Many decks kill faster and in a more consistent manner than aggro eldrazi archetypes. Who complains ? Certainly not the pilots of these Tier 1-2 archetypes.
Moreover, the comparison with Ancient Tomb is very superficial (i.e. in a vacuum). Tomb is a broken card in 2 insanely powerful formats, Legacy and Vintage. Tomb allows crazy things on T1-2. Eye doesn't reach as much power in this restricted format that is Modern. The comparison is catchy but deceitful.
The success of Eldrazi overshadows the other pillar of the tournament: Affinity, which tops 8-16 in every big tournament or so. Who complaisn ? Not Affi players, and probably not the rest of us because this T3 kill deck has been accepted after all, someway or another.
In short words, Eldrazi decks don't need a ban of any kind before we see what happens in a couple months. Players just over-react to what was a very surprising event. The ban may occur, but doesn't need to. It won't solve any issue players have with Modern anyway.
I've played the deck since late December, and you're wrong here. The only actual deckbuilding limitation of Eye of Ugin compared to Ancient tomb is that you must be using Eldrazi in your deck.. but they're the most value packed and pushed creatures that we currently have in modern, so that deckbuilding drawback is where you'd want to be with an ancient tomb deck anyway. I've since sold the deck because bans are a WHEN and not an IF, and believe me, I AM NOT happy that I had to sell the deck as I found the various versions extremely fun to play - but it is obvious to anyone that Wizards isn't going to let us continue to play with two of the most busted cards in the modern card pool. I've gotten 5/7 mana out of Eye in ONE TURN, that's Gaea's Cradle levels of ramp - no way that sticks around.
I assume pretty much all the players who claim for the Eye of Ugin ban just never played with or against the decks we saw at the Protour. Those players surely didn't play any eldrazi archetype seriously, maybe they just tried one to see basic openings, and that's it.
With all the respect we owe to one another, I feel embarrassed to see so many panic haters in the MTG community, here or anywhere else.
4-8 legendary lands, weak to land destruction, weak to sweepers, with obvious unfavorable MUs, these decks just took one narrow tournament by surprise and next-leveled the field.
Many decks kill faster and in a more consistent manner than aggro eldrazi archetypes. Who complains ? Certainly not the pilots of these Tier 1-2 archetypes.
Moreover, the comparison with Ancient Tomb is very superficial (i.e. in a vacuum). Tomb is a broken card in 2 insanely powerful formats, Legacy and Vintage. Tomb allows crazy things on T1-2. Eye doesn't reach as much power in this restricted format that is Modern. The comparison is catchy but deceitful.
[b]The success of Eldrazi overshadows the other pillar of the tournament: Affinity, which tops 8-16 in every big tournament or so. Who complaisn ? Not Affi players, and probably not the rest of us because this T3 kill deck has been accepted after all, someway or another.]/b]
In short words, Eldrazi decks don't need a ban of any kind before we see what happens in a couple months. Players just over-react to what was a very surprising event. The ban may occur, but doesn't need to. It won't solve any issue players have with Modern anyway.
No one cares about affinity because any deck that wants to beat it can sideboard insane hate (stony silence, shatterstorm, creeping corrosion etc). Affinity will only ever get to a certain point of domination in the meta and everyone will be packing 3 postboard hate cards and it will become a nightmare for affinity pilots.
I assume pretty much all the players who claim for the Eye of Ugin ban just never played with or against the decks we saw at the Protour. Those players surely didn't play any eldrazi archetype seriously, maybe they just tried one to see basic openings, and that's it.
With all the respect we owe to one another, I feel embarrassed to see so many panic haters in the MTG community, here or anywhere else.
4-8 legendary lands, weak to land destruction, weak to sweepers, with obvious unfavorable MUs, these decks just took one narrow tournament by surprise and next-leveled the field.
Many decks kill faster and in a more consistent manner than aggro eldrazi archetypes. Who complains ? Certainly not the pilots of these Tier 1-2 archetypes.
Moreover, the comparison with Ancient Tomb is very superficial (i.e. in a vacuum). Tomb is a broken card in 2 insanely powerful formats, Legacy and Vintage. Tomb allows crazy things on T1-2. Eye doesn't reach as much power in this restricted format that is Modern. The comparison is catchy but deceitful.
The success of Eldrazi overshadows the other pillar of the tournament: Affinity, which tops 8-16 in every big tournament or so. Who complaisn ? Not Affi players, and probably not the rest of us because this T3 kill deck has been accepted after all, someway or another.
In short words, Eldrazi decks don't need a ban of any kind before we see what happens in a couple months. Players just over-react to what was a very surprising event. The ban may occur, but doesn't need to. It won't solve any issue players have with Modern anyway.
And yet, it beat the living hell out of the best players in the world playing otherwise the most explosive and fast aggro and combo decks available, and what they found as the best deck from months of testing. It set unprecedented numbers, making up only 8% of the starting field, but an 80% Day 2 conversion, 75% of the Top 8, and 100% of the finals. Such a display of dominance has never been seen in a PT.
I honestly think the real culprit here is that WOTC has hammered out all of the pillars and police of the format. Now that they are gone, we are ruled by the fastest. Look at the metagame breakdown of the Pro Tour: 49% aggro and 32% combo. Yes, this is just after a major ban, so it makes sense to go fast in a new meta, but it is still crazy that the meta is that out of balance. What we really need are good payoff cards for mid to long range decks, but the best have been kicked out of the format: Ancestral Vision, Birthing Pod, Bloodbraid Elf[/] (to some extent, the argument can be made either way), Dig Through Time, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Punishing Fire, and Splinter Twin. These are all cards that allow decks to grind advantage or allow decks a powerful asset in the mid game. Why are we in an aggro dominated format? Because we don't have pay-off cards good enough to warrant playing midrange/control/combo-control. If we had some more powerful midrange decks, we would be able to see the return of control as an actual force in the format, and we would see more self-regulation. Eldrazi may or may not be too powerful, I'm on the side that contends it is, but the real problem is that the format has been mishandled.
I think these two things could greatly help the format.
-We need better counterspells. Yes, this is an incredibly hard line to walk, and the relative power of the counterspell in question changes based on the meta, but we need real answers for control to exist. Counterspell may or may not be our answer, Complicate could be okay, Prohibit is my personal favorite suggestion for this. Basically we need counterspells that can function early, and can retain some value in the later game, while still having it fairly costed and not too powerful.
-More advantage engines. I'm not asking for something as powerful as Birthing Pod, although I would like to see it eventually come off, but I want to see some more advantage in turns 3-6, and it has to be big enough to make up for the delayed payoff, but not so powerful that it completely takes over the game (which Birthing Pod pretty much does). I realize that this is incredibly hard to do, but I contend some cards such as Ancestral Vision, Dig Through Time, Splinter Twin, and possibly Jace could be the right power level to bring back longer strategies. Yes, they may be of a higher power level, but I think we can mostly agree we would rather see a higher power level and some semblance of balance than this unstable clusterf**k. Some of this stuff could be introduced through standard, such as a deck similar to the UG Madness deck from the old days.
Let's be real here. Given Wizards' track record, either Eye or Temple, or both, WILL be banned. Discounting the World Championships, the deck has already put up more results than Treasure Cruise powered Delver and any deck that had Dig Through Time. If Wizards didn't give the meta time to deal with TC or DTT--two cards which enabled a diverse range of decks, and which were far more hate-able by mainstream strategies than Eldrazi--why on earth should we think they'll allow Eldrazi to survive a ban announcement?
Given their track record I'm sure they'll also ban something in affinity, most likely plating.
Eldrazi is SO much more ridiculously strong than Affinity AND has a hard time being hated on. A quick plating ban doesn't currently make any sense at all.
Exactly. I was relating back to their track record. Before last announcement people said bloom was busted and twin was the police that made no sense to ban.
I'm not advocating, I'm predicting.
Moreover, the comparison with Ancient Tomb is very superficial (i.e. in a vacuum). Tomb is a broken card in 2 insanely powerful formats, Legacy and Vintage. Tomb allows crazy things on T1-2. Eye doesn't reach as much power in this restricted format that is Modern. The comparison is catchy but deceitful.
I also don't see how people are comparing Eye of Ugin to Ancient Tomb, since Ancient Tomb can't make 4+ mana on the first turn, while being able to tutor up creatures late-game.
Yeah, the results aren't "oh, hey, BW Eldrazi's making some impressive results on MTGO"
it's literally dominating MTGO to unreal numbers
I've struggled to follow this conversation over the past day, so I'm a bit confused. Are we trying to decide whether or not Eldrazi is bannable in April? Or are people still advocating for the immediate, emergency ban? If the latter, please point me in their direction so I can respond appropriately.
Yeah, the results aren't "oh, hey, BW Eldrazi's making some impressive results on MTGO"
it's literally dominating MTGO to unreal numbers
I've struggled to follow this conversation over the past day, so I'm a bit confused. Are we trying to decide whether or not Eldrazi is bannable in April? Or are people still advocating for the immediate, emergency ban? If the latter, please point me in their direction so I can respond appropriately.
I'm of the opinion that is should not be emergency banned, but that it COULD be emergency banned, and as such I've sold the deck. So, kind of between the two opinions I guess.
Let's be real here. Given Wizards' track record, either Eye or Temple, or both, WILL be banned. Discounting the World Championships, the deck has already put up more results than Treasure Cruise powered Delver and any deck that had Dig Through Time. If Wizards didn't give the meta time to deal with TC or DTT--two cards which enabled a diverse range of decks, and which were far more hate-able by mainstream strategies than Eldrazi--why on earth should we think they'll allow Eldrazi to survive a ban announcement?
How has it put up more results than Treasure Cruise powered Delver? If we're talking Top 8's, I honestly would dismiss any results from the Pro Tour in regards to the metagame. I've pointed this out before but people seem to forget it, but 37.5% of the rounds that led up to that Top 8 were Draft, i.e. not Modern. That's a pretty significant portion. Someone can engineer a completely different Top 8 by adjusting how the players did in the Draft portion.
Pro Tour Top 8's do tend to affect the metagame on a temporary basis because people see decks doing well and want to adopt them, but in terms of metagame strength their results actually mean very little (at least once they started doing them as multiple formats, back when they were just one format they gave a better read).
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How does land destruction work exactly when you can (with the best hand) cast your big stuff on turn 2?
Land destruction didn't work with Bloom... and that was not as consistent lol.
Turn 1 three mimics doesn't happen if Eye is banned though and that's what is important.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
WotC being WotC though, I still think they're either going to hone in on something entirely off the radar of the majority, or they'll kick into "everything is fine" mode.
The latter would be ok if anything effective gets spoiled for SoI. Not that I want to bet on the appropriate silver bullets showing up in the next set, but I wouldn't put it past WotC to have worked up some sort of contingency plan in the event of Eldrazi oversaturation. They don't test for Modern onward, but they are definitely aware of those formats and are willing to just throw stuff into the fray as long as it doesn't ruin Standard, for better or worse.
Does it really matter? The point is that an explosive hand like that can happen because Eye passively gives 2 mana and eye makes the deck consistent. When Eye is banned, eldrazi will still have explosive hands with temples but they will be rare like infect hands.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Better then the possibilities of a turn 2/3 affinity kill.
I think the main argument most are having is not whether or not something from Eldrazi gets banned at all, it's whether it gets emergency banned soon or Wizards waits until April; giving us three Modern GPs and two months of FNMs to deal with the Eldrazi mess ourselves.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Given their track record I'm sure they'll also ban something in affinity, most likely plating.
"As of late, we've noticed that matches have been ending too quickly. In light of this, we have decided to unban Sensei's Divining Top. However, as we do not want shuffling effects in combination with Top, we have decided to also ban the fetchland cycles from Zendikar and Onslaught/Khans of Tarkir."
"Also, the next event promo will be Eye of Ugin. kthxbai."
With all the respect we owe to one another, I feel embarrassed to see so many panic haters in the MTG community, here or anywhere else.
CFB just uploaded "What if" videos where you can see how awful openers eldrazi may get, and how bad the archetype mulligans. It's here: http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/what-if-modern-amulet-bloom-vs-eldrazi-aggro-toms-side/
4-8 legendary lands, weak to land destruction, weak to sweepers, with obvious unfavorable MUs, these decks just took one narrow tournament by surprise and next-leveled the field.
Many decks kill faster and in a more consistent manner than aggro eldrazi archetypes. Who complains ? Certainly not the pilots of these Tier 1-2 archetypes.
Moreover, the comparison with Ancient Tomb is very superficial (i.e. in a vacuum). Tomb is a broken card in 2 insanely powerful formats, Legacy and Vintage. Tomb allows crazy things on T1-2. Eye doesn't reach as much power in this restricted format that is Modern. The comparison is catchy but deceitful.
The success of Eldrazi overshadows the other pillar of the tournament: Affinity, which tops 8-16 in every big tournament or so. Who complaisn ? Not Affi players, and probably not the rest of us because this T3 kill deck has been accepted after all, someway or another.
In short words, Eldrazi decks don't need a ban of any kind before we see what happens in a couple months. Players just over-react to what was a very surprising event. The ban may occur, but doesn't need to. It won't solve any issue players have with Modern anyway.
Eldrazi is SO much more ridiculously strong than Affinity AND has a hard time being hated on. A quick plating ban doesn't currently make any sense at all.
This is probably the most intelligent post on this thread. I couldn't agree more... I won't dispute that Eldrazi is very, very good, but to say it's worthy of an E-Ban is absurd... Thanks for shedding some common sense into this forum.
I've played the deck since late December, and you're wrong here. The only actual deckbuilding limitation of Eye of Ugin compared to Ancient tomb is that you must be using Eldrazi in your deck.. but they're the most value packed and pushed creatures that we currently have in modern, so that deckbuilding drawback is where you'd want to be with an ancient tomb deck anyway. I've since sold the deck because bans are a WHEN and not an IF, and believe me, I AM NOT happy that I had to sell the deck as I found the various versions extremely fun to play - but it is obvious to anyone that Wizards isn't going to let us continue to play with two of the most busted cards in the modern card pool. I've gotten 5/7 mana out of Eye in ONE TURN, that's Gaea's Cradle levels of ramp - no way that sticks around.
No one cares about affinity because any deck that wants to beat it can sideboard insane hate (stony silence, shatterstorm, creeping corrosion etc). Affinity will only ever get to a certain point of domination in the meta and everyone will be packing 3 postboard hate cards and it will become a nightmare for affinity pilots.
And yet, it beat the living hell out of the best players in the world playing otherwise the most explosive and fast aggro and combo decks available, and what they found as the best deck from months of testing. It set unprecedented numbers, making up only 8% of the starting field, but an 80% Day 2 conversion, 75% of the Top 8, and 100% of the finals. Such a display of dominance has never been seen in a PT.
So we can say all we want about mulligans and bad draws. But the numbers speak for themselves. http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/pro-tour-oath-of-the-gatewatch-by-the-meta
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I think these two things could greatly help the format.
-We need better counterspells. Yes, this is an incredibly hard line to walk, and the relative power of the counterspell in question changes based on the meta, but we need real answers for control to exist. Counterspell may or may not be our answer, Complicate could be okay, Prohibit is my personal favorite suggestion for this. Basically we need counterspells that can function early, and can retain some value in the later game, while still having it fairly costed and not too powerful.
-More advantage engines. I'm not asking for something as powerful as Birthing Pod, although I would like to see it eventually come off, but I want to see some more advantage in turns 3-6, and it has to be big enough to make up for the delayed payoff, but not so powerful that it completely takes over the game (which Birthing Pod pretty much does). I realize that this is incredibly hard to do, but I contend some cards such as Ancestral Vision, Dig Through Time, Splinter Twin, and possibly Jace could be the right power level to bring back longer strategies. Yes, they may be of a higher power level, but I think we can mostly agree we would rather see a higher power level and some semblance of balance than this unstable clusterf**k. Some of this stuff could be introduced through standard, such as a deck similar to the UG Madness deck from the old days.
Exactly. I was relating back to their track record. Before last announcement people said bloom was busted and twin was the police that made no sense to ban.
I'm not advocating, I'm predicting.
it's literally dominating MTGO to unreal numbers
I doubt I'm the only person staying away from MTGO dailies/leagues until the next B&R announcement.
I've struggled to follow this conversation over the past day, so I'm a bit confused. Are we trying to decide whether or not Eldrazi is bannable in April? Or are people still advocating for the immediate, emergency ban? If the latter, please point me in their direction so I can respond appropriately.
I'm of the opinion that is should not be emergency banned, but that it COULD be emergency banned, and as such I've sold the deck. So, kind of between the two opinions I guess.
I'm sure you aren't. I can't wait for the attendance drop in the March GP as well.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
Pro Tour Top 8's do tend to affect the metagame on a temporary basis because people see decks doing well and want to adopt them, but in terms of metagame strength their results actually mean very little (at least once they started doing them as multiple formats, back when they were just one format they gave a better read).