I've seen this little family showing up repeatedly in top decks, usually as a 1 or 2 of in the main deck. It seems dreadfully slow, but apparently it is working.
What sort of situations is it useful? Is it playing like a 4 mana Lingering Souls for decks that can't support white/black? For a fourth turn play, I don't understand how it is impactful enough.
I'm playing one over Huntmaster in Jund, and it's been very good to me. The card does a lot of things - it can do a Lingering Souls impression and a Grim Lavamancer impression, and a resolved Pia is a pain to clean up and can either help you stall if you're in a bad spot or close the game out fast on an open board. If you have 6 mana and they have nothing, you can untap and deal 8. The tokens are great against Etched Champion and Jund decks. You can block-sac against lifelinkers. You can stop opposing Cliques and Nexuses, and delay Colonnade for a few turns.
It might not look terribly efficient. You get more tokens with L-Souls and more ping earlier with Lavamancer, but think of it as a charm in creature form. It does an overwhelming amount of different things in one card for a little extra mana.
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Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
I've seen this little family showing up repeatedly in top decks, usually as a 1 or 2 of in the main deck. It seems dreadfully slow, but apparently it is working.
What sort of situations is it useful? Is it playing like a 4 mana Lingering Souls for decks that can't support white/black? For a fourth turn play, I don't understand how it is impactful enough.
What's going on here?
You can recur it with Kologhan's Command, which can be recurred with snapcaster, which recurs... in a never ending chain of value. The thopters help block against affinity too. It's got a lot of applications and power so it's good as a 1-of.
It's being used in the proactive Grixis lists to great effect as their top end finisher. Much like many other cards that are hotly debated (painful truths comes to mind), you don't play this on the first turn possible. The card can almost singlehandedly take over the late game in that you get 4 power over three bodies (two of them fly!) and the fliers can be used as shocks (which has TONS of application in that you can sac after declaring blocks to blank damage and still get damage in yourself). Not only all of that, but the decks it's being run in are able to recur threats over and over, so once the opponent has gotten through the first P/K there's a good chance they're going to have to deal with it 1-2 more times. That's a TON of value for one card.
I think the charm analogy is a good one. There are 4 drops that are better at: providing a buffer vs. aggression, presenting a clock, and answering problem creatures. But there aren't many creatures that do a passable job of all of it. Like all the other jund-type 4 drops, it's kind of in a "well you've got to play something here" flex slot in most decks, and shifting metas dictate that it might be best to go for flexibility than the specialized cards like Olivia or Huntmaster.
You can recur it with Kologhan's Command, which can be recurred with snapcaster, which recurs... in a never ending chain of value. The thopters help block against affinity too. It's got a lot of applications and power so it's good as a 1-of.
This is what I came in here to say. There's something "unfair" out of a recurring Pia and Kiran Nalaar out of Grixis. Having played Kiki Chord, you can imagine that the 3 bodies with the potential to do direct damage, is very good. Personally, I don't feel like it is the best in Jund, but I guess it helps against Junk Midrange when they try to outcreature you with Lingering Souls.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
The card has proven playable in Grixis and Jund decks, but outside of that it combines stupidly good with Restoration Angel. The winning UWR twin list from Pittsburgh played one in the sideboard and Jeff Hoogland played a Kiki-Chord deck at some recent modern open with P&KN in it.
A 4/4 spread across three bodies, two of which are in the air, for 2RR.
If you look at it that way, it makes sense. I think.
That's without touching on the ability to throw the thopters or any other random artifacts you have at the opponent or their boardstate, for whatever value you can get out of it.
Honestly I had the same problem with Siege-Gang Commander in years past. It's not immediately apparent why it works, but it does.
A 4/4 spread across three bodies, two of which are in the air, for 2RR.
This is actually surprisingly relevant. The fact that Parents makes flying tokens that also sac to blow things up means that the card is actually really good against Affinity, and you can go over the top for a lot against non-Affinity decks.
It's just a solid grind you down card advantage play in the mid- to late-game. You're not gonna blow anybody out with it on turn 4 but it almost always trades 2 or 3 for 1.
I've been thinking about it in UWR Geist, there's typically a 5 drop, usually a dragon in that deck. I could lower the curve by 1 and instead play something that helps Geist swing in, and that deck plays a couple Resto's which is a decent enough interaction here.
P&K getting blinked with resto is gross--that's 5 flying power with flash spread across three bodies for four mana.
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Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
I think people exaggerate the speed of modern. Sure you can die on turn 3 but games hardly turn out that way in practice. Hell we play siege rhino as a 4 of! Personally I feel he is overrated (just a big guy that is smaller than goyf and still trades 1 for 1 with removal) but this card has some real applications against the many small bodies in modern.
I have won a couple of close matches by dropping a Splinter Twin on Pia when there was no chance of waiting to draw the typical carriers: an exarch or mite.
They basically become some kind of new planeswalker on their own. Getting 2x 1/1 fliers every turn, which you can sacrifice for 2 damage, is pure unfairness.
Besides the twin application, 2/2 and 2x 1/1 flying for 2RR is a decent deal, and the colorless tokens have quite a few applications- gang-blocking and killing a 11/2 Etched Champion is the first thing I did when I included a copy. My affinity opponent was not accustomed to even thinking about blockers when facing Grixis, and so when he declared attackers he turned the Champ sideways and just said "Hits you for 11." There was a pause as he waited for me to adjust my life counter, and I softly said "My thopters block."
Pia has been a regular in my deck ever since.
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Just played against the aforementioned grixis deck and was thinking the exact same thing. It was surprisingly effective against me, taking out a delver and racing. MIdrange 4 drops change quite a bit with the meta though so it could be a flash in the pan.
Right now I like Pia over both. Pia is never as good as Olivia when she's at her best, but it's never as bad as Olivia at her worst. Pia is a safer, more all-round choice that has pushed my Olivia to the SB. It's a meta call for sure, but I absolutely believe that P&KN is a serious contender for the slot.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
I've seen this little family showing up repeatedly in top decks, usually as a 1 or 2 of in the main deck. It seems dreadfully slow, but apparently it is working.
What sort of situations is it useful? Is it playing like a 4 mana Lingering Souls for decks that can't support white/black? For a fourth turn play, I don't understand how it is impactful enough.
What's going on here?
4 power on 3 bodies, you can use their ability to shock your opponent to give a faster clock, 2 of the bodies fly, the flyers can block etched champion which is huge since many cards can't. I called this card being playable when it was spoiled (along with Jace) and everyone on this forum said I was stupid lol.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
No idea. I would never use this over a planeswalker. Maybe its a budget thing or a "hey look im using a new card so im cool?" thing.
Try it! You may become a fan. I was quick to dismiss Courser of Kruphix in Modern, despite using them extensively in Standard. But I found it amazing in Kiki Chord. Then I was quick to dismiss Pia and Kiran Nalaar, but it actually is pretty decent. (although I personally think that it's much better in Kiki Chord)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
No idea. I would never use this over a planeswalker. Maybe its a budget thing or a "hey look im using a new card so im cool?" thing.
Try it! You may become a fan. I was quick to dismiss Courser of Kruphix in Modern, despite using them extensively in Standard. But I found it amazing in Kiki Chord. Then I was quick to dismiss Pia and Kiran Nalaar, but it actually is pretty decent. (although I personally think that it's much better in Kiki Chord)
Courser of Kruphix reads "If the top card of your deck is a land, draw a card and gain 1 life". Its also useful library manipulation in a color that doesn't often get access to card filtering, and its bolt proof. If Courser sticks throughout a long game, its essentially a green sphinx's revelation with a body. The only real criticism of Courser in modern is that it isn't a fast clock, but other than that, I feel like Courser's modern playability should never have been in question.
No idea. I would never use this over a planeswalker. Maybe its a budget thing or a "hey look im using a new card so im cool?" thing.
Try it! You may become a fan. I was quick to dismiss Courser of Kruphix in Modern, despite using them extensively in Standard. But I found it amazing in Kiki Chord. Then I was quick to dismiss Pia and Kiran Nalaar, but it actually is pretty decent. (although I personally think that it's much better in Kiki Chord)
Courser of Kruphix reads "If the top card of your deck is a land, draw a card and gain 1 life". Its also useful library manipulation in a color that doesn't often get access to card filtering, and its bolt proof. If Courser sticks throughout a long game, its essentially a green sphinx's revelation with a body. The only real criticism of Courser in modern is that it isn't a fast clock, but other than that, I feel like Courser's modern playability should never have been in question.
Courser's viability is still a big question for me. Finks wins the 3 drop slot over Courser every time, and finks is barely played...
I've seen this little family showing up repeatedly in top decks, usually as a 1 or 2 of in the main deck. It seems dreadfully slow, but apparently it is working.
What sort of situations is it useful? Is it playing like a 4 mana Lingering Souls for decks that can't support white/black? For a fourth turn play, I don't understand how it is impactful enough.
What's going on here?
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Currently playing Knight of the Reliquary - Retreat to Coralhelm Combo
It might not look terribly efficient. You get more tokens with L-Souls and more ping earlier with Lavamancer, but think of it as a charm in creature form. It does an overwhelming amount of different things in one card for a little extra mana.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
You can recur it with Kologhan's Command, which can be recurred with snapcaster, which recurs... in a never ending chain of value. The thopters help block against affinity too. It's got a lot of applications and power so it's good as a 1-of.
This is what I came in here to say. There's something "unfair" out of a recurring Pia and Kiran Nalaar out of Grixis. Having played Kiki Chord, you can imagine that the 3 bodies with the potential to do direct damage, is very good. Personally, I don't feel like it is the best in Jund, but I guess it helps against Junk Midrange when they try to outcreature you with Lingering Souls.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)If you look at it that way, it makes sense. I think.
That's without touching on the ability to throw the thopters or any other random artifacts you have at the opponent or their boardstate, for whatever value you can get out of it.
Honestly I had the same problem with Siege-Gang Commander in years past. It's not immediately apparent why it works, but it does.
This is actually surprisingly relevant. The fact that Parents makes flying tokens that also sac to blow things up means that the card is actually really good against Affinity, and you can go over the top for a lot against non-Affinity decks.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
They basically become some kind of new planeswalker on their own. Getting 2x 1/1 fliers every turn, which you can sacrifice for 2 damage, is pure unfairness.
Besides the twin application, 2/2 and 2x 1/1 flying for 2RR is a decent deal, and the colorless tokens have quite a few applications- gang-blocking and killing a 11/2 Etched Champion is the first thing I did when I included a copy. My affinity opponent was not accustomed to even thinking about blockers when facing Grixis, and so when he declared attackers he turned the Champ sideways and just said "Hits you for 11." There was a pause as he waited for me to adjust my life counter, and I softly said "My thopters block."
Pia has been a regular in my deck ever since.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
4 power on 3 bodies, you can use their ability to shock your opponent to give a faster clock, 2 of the bodies fly, the flyers can block etched champion which is huge since many cards can't. I called this card being playable when it was spoiled (along with Jace) and everyone on this forum said I was stupid lol.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Eh I wouldn't put her in Skred. Doesn't that deck play alot of red board wipes? That seems bad with Pia and Kiran
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I wish the blue version (Whirler Rogue) was an artifact for my Grand Architect deck.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
Try it! You may become a fan. I was quick to dismiss Courser of Kruphix in Modern, despite using them extensively in Standard. But I found it amazing in Kiki Chord. Then I was quick to dismiss Pia and Kiran Nalaar, but it actually is pretty decent. (although I personally think that it's much better in Kiki Chord)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Courser of Kruphix reads "If the top card of your deck is a land, draw a card and gain 1 life". Its also useful library manipulation in a color that doesn't often get access to card filtering, and its bolt proof. If Courser sticks throughout a long game, its essentially a green sphinx's revelation with a body. The only real criticism of Courser in modern is that it isn't a fast clock, but other than that, I feel like Courser's modern playability should never have been in question.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)