I was going to come in this thread and say "4 Karn Liberated, 3 Wurmcoil Engine, ..." but I was beaten to it.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I kind of agree, but also kind of disagree. I almost want to say 4x leyline of sanctity, 27 or 28 lands, and 28 cards including lingering souls, wurmcoil engines, grave titans, primeval titans, obstinate baloths, kitchen finks, loxodon smiters, etc. I mean, they have a plan against tron--what kind of plan do they have against mono-value? Like, literally play UW value titans + a black splash for lingering souls and grave titan. That sounds almost better than RG tron since you're not wasting time cantripping into bombs, you just get to run mono bombs.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
I love to run leyline of sanctity against jund. It shuts off all the disruption, lightning bolt, and liliana ultimate. It allows me to fight their good stuff with all my tools. Blood moon can be really disruptive for them too.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
You can probably run a tron deck that's even better suited to the matchup than currently played lists. For instance, they often run Pyroclasms and/or Spellskites, which are obviously pretty bad against Jund. They could probably be replaced by more haymakers like ugin, discard hate like Leyline of Sanctity, or more cantrips (maxing out on Relic of Progenitus, for instance, to slow down the 'Goyf beats).
Jund is a war of attrition knowing their individual cards will eventually overpower you. If you can do things like avoid their discard, win value with 2 for 1s, or disrupt them then you can win. I have a solid win rate against jund with a RW prison deck, but mostly because it maindecks stuff like leyline of sanctity, chalice of the void, and ensnaring bridge with either planeswalkers or assemble the legion as wincons. Even then if one goyf gets loose behind abrupt decay removing a bridge, that can be a quick loss.
Jund is potent and resilient for a reason.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
Burn isn't really that favored over Jund- maybe 60-40. If the Jund player is competent and actually plays their Feed the Clan around your Skullcracks, the game is very winnable.
RG Tron, on the other hand, is 90-10. Wurmcoil just hoses us so hard and we can't deal with an Eldrazi.
The Abzan variant of BG/x is also favored over Jund.
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These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
if this is true, then it sucks dedicating 60 cards to beat a deck and getting 60% of winrate is a total failure.
It seems to me an anafenza company deck with all the creatures that make 2x1 (eternal witness, Finks, voice) seems the best plan to me?
I've heard every percentage from 60/40 to 90/10 for RG Tron vs. Jund. Obviously part of this depends on the list, but in my own experience, it is around 80/20. A Jund player from my LGS also said 80/20, so it made me feel more confident about my experience.
*As a small sample size example, I ran into Jund the one time I played GR Tron. I made a bunch of mistakes (and was pretty upset at myself) and stillcrushed Jund. There is absolutely no way for them to deal with 2 Wurmcoil Engine, outside of Liliana, then double Abrupt Decay. Jund also loses to the inevitability of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Pretty much the way Jund beats them post board is triple Fulminator Mage and double Kologhan's Command. There are few ways to shut down what a deck of 4 ofs has.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
My anti Jund deck would be Jund with mb/sb choices built to beat the mirror. You'll mostly keep your percentages in other matchups but you'll beat Jund.
Leyline isn't that great for Tron against Jund because Jund's discard doesn't hit the most important cards in Tron anyway. The important stuff to put maindeck are Life from the Loam and Relic of Progenitus; okay, there's a little anti-synergy there, but if Jund's going to beat you Game 1 it's usually going to be off the back of a maindeck Fulminator Mage, and Relic of Progenitus is great for stalling out of the Tarmogoyfs.
You can probably run a tron deck that's even better suited to the matchup than currently played lists. For instance, they often run Pyroclasms and/or Spellskites, which are obviously pretty bad against Jund. They could probably be replaced by more haymakers like ugin, discard hate like Leyline of Sanctity, or more cantrips (maxing out on Relic of Progenitus, for instance, to slow down the 'Goyf beats).
Pyroclasm is actually pretty good against Jund. It kills Dark Confidant, Scavenging Ooze, and Tarmogoyf (if paired with a Relic). Considering Dark Confidant is probably the best card in the matchup, having something that can dispatch it quickly before it accrues too much advantage is very useful. It's Junk that Pyroclasm is far less impressive against.
*As a small sample size example, I ran into Jund the one time I played GR Tron. I made a bunch of mistakes (and was pretty upset at myself) and stillcrushed Jund. There is absolutely no way for them to deal with 2 Wurmcoil Engine, outside of Liliana, then double Abrupt Decay. Jund also loses to the inevitability of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Pretty much the way Jund beats them post board is triple Fulminator Mage and double Kologhan's Command. There are few ways to shut down what a deck of 4 ofs has.
This is true on the whole, but Emrakul is actually rather underwhelming against Jund. The simple fact is, if you have the mana to cast the guy, you should be already winning. If it was Junk I would be in favor of keeping Emrakul because Path to Exile is so great against Wurmcoil Engine and Ulamog, but Jund has much bigger problems dealing with those cards. Heck, their only real way to get rid of Ulamog (not counting discard) is to use Liliana, but if you have a Liliana in play then Ulamog will get rid of it when he's cast.
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Most definitely this.
I was going to come in this thread and say "4 Karn Liberated, 3 Wurmcoil Engine, ..." but I was beaten to it.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Except the landbase...ouch.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/28k-games-of-modern-analyzed
if this is true, then it sucks dedicating 60 cards to beat a deck and getting 60% of winrate is a total failure.
It seems to me an anafenza company deck with all the creatures that make 2x1 (eternal witness, Finks, voice) seems the best plan to me?
Jund is potent and resilient for a reason.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
RG Tron, on the other hand, is 90-10. Wurmcoil just hoses us so hard and we can't deal with an Eldrazi.
The Abzan variant of BG/x is also favored over Jund.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
I've heard every percentage from 60/40 to 90/10 for RG Tron vs. Jund. Obviously part of this depends on the list, but in my own experience, it is around 80/20. A Jund player from my LGS also said 80/20, so it made me feel more confident about my experience.
*As a small sample size example, I ran into Jund the one time I played GR Tron. I made a bunch of mistakes (and was pretty upset at myself) and still crushed Jund. There is absolutely no way for them to deal with 2 Wurmcoil Engine, outside of Liliana, then double Abrupt Decay. Jund also loses to the inevitability of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Pretty much the way Jund beats them post board is triple Fulminator Mage and double Kologhan's Command. There are few ways to shut down what a deck of 4 ofs has.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Pyroclasm is actually pretty good against Jund. It kills Dark Confidant, Scavenging Ooze, and Tarmogoyf (if paired with a Relic). Considering Dark Confidant is probably the best card in the matchup, having something that can dispatch it quickly before it accrues too much advantage is very useful. It's Junk that Pyroclasm is far less impressive against.
This is true on the whole, but Emrakul is actually rather underwhelming against Jund. The simple fact is, if you have the mana to cast the guy, you should be already winning. If it was Junk I would be in favor of keeping Emrakul because Path to Exile is so great against Wurmcoil Engine and Ulamog, but Jund has much bigger problems dealing with those cards. Heck, their only real way to get rid of Ulamog (not counting discard) is to use Liliana, but if you have a Liliana in play then Ulamog will get rid of it when he's cast.