I lost all manners of internet yesterday during round 1 of the day, pretty sad day if it weren't for the fact that Top Control went all the way to 15th place, holy ****ing crap!!! Only 3 lists running and 1 goes up to 15th place. That should show all the people who claim it cannot be competitive due to it being slow and going to time every round. Haven't even been to the TC thread or watched the deck tech yet. Sorry for my over excitement, this is AWESOME! So sad there wasn't a featured game (link me if there was).
Edit: And the player is our very own Shadowgripper (Zac Elsik)
I hope Pillow Fort gets some love, it would be fun to see something super slow and grindy.
I'm not the kind of guy to follow events, but I know at least 3 people from these forums will be playing Top Control/Fateseal Control at the GP so I'm interested in seeing how far they get.
Too bad that Jim Davis isn't among them. All the Jim Davis jokes would really make sense there.
Anyway it's nothing personal but I hope we don't see it. I would rather watch and play against Eggs then that pile. Funnily enough it's also an artifact deck. Hmm...
I think what this event, along with other recent events, shows us:
In Modern, there is no clearly defined "Tier 1". There are about 20+ decks that all can compete on even terms, and in the hands of a skilled pilot, nearly anything can top-16 a Modern tournament.
There is nothing that is so powerful that it pushes other things to the side. RG Tron and Amulet Bloom are strong, but not clearly a step ahead of everything else, like in Legacy, where the blue decks running Dig through Time, Force of Will, and Brainstorm are about a step ahead of everything else in the format.
If you want to play Lantern Top Control, you can top-16 a big event. If you want to play Mono Blue Tron, you can top-16 a big event. If you want to play a Zoo deck, you can top-16 a big event. And so on.
Since I'm bored at work, I decided to look at how the % of archetypes changed between the day 2 metagame and the top 32. The exercise provided some interesting (and sometimes unexpected) figures. Please note that there might be some slight mistakes, mostly due to the "creative" deck labeling provided by WotC.
The biggest winners were:
Abzan Company +9,6%
Naya Company +8,2%
Well, those are impressive numbers. Collected Company is not a flash in the pan and it is likely that at least some variant of the deck will prove solid enough to become a lasting part of the metagame. It's interesting to note that the Abzan versions are all quite different from each other. It might take a while for a widely-accepted "best version" to emerge.
Tarmo Twin +4,9%
The least-expected Twin variant was also the one to perform better, percentage-wise. I honestly think this is mostly due to the quality of the pilots who chose to play it, though (Dickmann and Jensen). But anyway, if Dickmann opts for a particular Twin variant it usually means it is the best for the current metagame.
The next best % increases belong to Lantern Control (+2,8%), Faeries (+2,1%) and Goryo's Vengeance (+2,1%). It's hard to find any significance in these numbers, though, due to the very low amount of overall pilots.
Other decks had increases below 2%, namely: Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Elves, Grixis Control, Tron GR, Twin UR. It's interesting to note that Amulet and Tron didn't lose any ground despite the amount of hate thrown at them.
Let's move on to the losers.
Grixis Twin -5,7%
This is very interesting: the most-played Twin variant was also the worst-performing. I guess this is to be taken into account when deciding between versatility vs. mana stability.
Infect -5,5%
No Glistener Elves to be seen at the top tables in Charlotte. Looks like the metagame developed a cure for the infection.
Affinity -3,5%
I think this has a lot to do with the sheer amount of Kolaghan's Commands being played at the moment. It was not a good time to be playing Affinity.
Merfolk -3,2%
The whole tribe went extinct in the top 32. I'm no Merfolk expert, but I actually thought that the deck had some quite good MUs in the field.
Abzan -3%
Not a big surprise here. It was widely believed that Jund was the best BGx variant in the current metagame and the data support this claim.
Other decks that lost a little ground were Burn, Jund and the many decks that had a very small representation to begin with (including Zoo, Living End, UWR and Scapeshift). The difference here is a matter of fractions, though, so I wouldn't attempt to read too much into the numbers.
I don't know if this can be of any use in identifying future developments, but I felt like sharing
Very very interesting, especially the changes in Twin are interesting, since many people claimed that Grixis Twin is the best Twin deck atm. Also The Junk/Abzan changes were kinda surprising.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Glad you like it, would love to contribute something to the deck as I'm also a huge fan. It also serves well distinguish it from its legacy counterpart-named deck and even older versions that used those coldsnap pitch cards.
Also, on meta analysis, hard to talk about infect, boggles, and grixis twin. When a deck is either budget or brandi-new, you end up with a lot of players who don't necessarily have what it takes to make it all the way regardless of deck choice. Personally I think k-command isn't that insane against affinity, and there is a lot to be said about dodging match ups too.
The Jund/Abzan thing I'm still confused about. Pros hyped jund and the tables turned with Abzan being seemingly inferior, plenty of junk made day 2--but I think in about equal proportion to the proportion that showed up by comparison to jund. Unless the data point is saying that less junk showed up and even less performed well enough to make day 2 compared to jund. Would be curious to see. I had pretty good match ups in junk all day--lost to a nut boggles players, lost to a junk player with voice and no rhino, and lost to sultai midrange (the mirrors more due to no sideboard trumps against them more than anything).
Like Alphe's analysis above, it looks at differences between the day 2 and he top 32. Unlike his, it also situates those differences in the broader metagme context leading up to the GP. This gives us some sense of how the decks fit into Modern as a whole, not just one GP. Big winners in my analysis include Naya Zoo and Abzan Company, along with UR Twin to a somewhat lesser extent. Jund underperformed, but relative to the god awful Abzan performance, is doing much better: this will end up being a win for Jund specifically because it's the better BGx deck of choice right now. Speaking of Abzan, both Abzan and Infect were huge losers at the GP, continuing the downward trajectory they have been on since April.
Like Alphe's analysis above, it looks at differences between the day 2 and he top 32. Unlike his, it also situates those differences in the broader metagme context leading up to the GP. This gives us some sense of how the decks fit into Modern as a whole, not just one GP. Big winners in my analysis include Naya Zoo and Abzan Company, along with UR Twin to a somewhat lesser extent. Jund underperformed, but relative to the god awful Abzan performance, is doing much better: this will end up being a win for Jund specifically because it's the better BGx deck of choice right now. Speaking of Abzan, both Abzan and Infect were huge losers at the GP, continuing the downward trajectory they have been on since April.
Looking forward to the rougue decks article. I've read a couple articles about Top Control, but none by someone who has overseen the deck's development and understands it. Nice.
@Rigval: Wow where did you find that? Thats so blatant, the way he immediately tapped with his hand on it and then attacked so Bos wouldn't look at the land he got.
Are there any vidéos of the Rounds plz? I can only find Semifinals and Great finals on YT.
They've got them all up on their YouTube channel, though they all went up like 15 minutes ago so they obviously weren't available at the time you posted. Anyway, you'll find them here.
The Charlotte videos that weren't specific round videos, though (such as the deck tech videos) aren't in that playlist, but they are on the channel.
@Rigval: Wow where did you find that? Thats so blatant, the way he immediately tapped with his hand on it and then attacked so Bos wouldn't look at the land he got.
Quote from pizzap »
Brad himself was one of the first to say it happened...
Quote from Aether7 »
Brad isn't a cheat, no witch hunt required here.
I could accept someone making a mistake and even the quick attack due to the rush of it all if it weren't for the fact that he purposefully kept his hand over the land the whole time after he did it. Something really really unusual. He knew what he was doing. He may not have a cheating reputation but there is a first time for evrything and this is pretty obvious to me.
I've had SCG premium and watched heaps of vs videos. That's how Brad taps his lands with the palm like that.
I agree with this. Unfortunately this is the way he taps his lands. Now I'm not sure if he cheated or not (and I am one to jump quickly with my pitchfork), but I think we need more evidence.
Also, and I know this is not really proof but I'm just pointing it out, there doesn't appear to be a reason to fetch Ghost Quarter rather than just a Forest. I'm actually curious about what he did with that Ghost Quarter the rest of the game.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I've had SCG premium and watched heaps of vs videos. That's how Brad taps his lands with the palm like that.
I agree with this. Unfortunately this is the way he taps his lands. Now I'm not sure if he cheated or not (and I am one to jump quickly with my pitchfork), but I think we need more evidence.
Also, and I know this is not really proof but I'm just pointing it out, there doesn't appear to be a reason to fetch Ghost Quarter rather than just a Forest. I'm actually curious about what he did with that Ghost Quarter the rest of the game.
Covering his lands being a trademark of his could be a valid point against it being a cheat, but its not proof of it. I don't think there will be a way to prove it. But don't forget good cheaters also practice their cheats, specially when you play at tournament levels. He doesn't have a cheating reputation, maybe it was indeed a mistake, but that "trademark" was very convenient in that situation.
Quote from FoodChainGoblin »
Also, and I know this is not really proof but I'm just pointing it out, there doesn't appear to be a reason to fetch Ghost Quarter rather than just a Forest.
There is. I was reading some reddit about it. Boswell had a GQ of his own, fetching GQ instead of his forest guarantees a fetchable land in the library in case Boswell GQed his Raging Ravine, which would be convenient if the opponent drew a removal spell for Tarmogoyf. Which he did in the form of Lili.
Quote from Shaka »
revealing the issue yourself isn't proof that it was an innocent mistake. He could just be trying to do damage control.
Not only did he try to justify himself before anyone even accused him of it. But he also tried to explain the issue by saying he was trying to fetch the forest beside GQ and he was quickly called out on it because there was no Forest near GQ. Blackcleave cliffs was on one side, bloodstained mire on the other side. And apparently he passed a forest when he began searching.
Not like this issue really matters, but it really is very sketchy.
edit: it apparently went like this:
Starts search > Some cards > Forest > card > card > card > Card > Bloodstained mire > GQ > Blackcleave cliffs > Stop search > Play GQ.
I think intentionally trying to obfuscate game-states by trying to conceal open-information should be a penalty at the very least. I can't stand players who have a very disorganized board state which makes it confusing to discern what the actual board state is. It's like players who put all their lands on top of each other. I can't stand that. Anyways, I haven't seen the video yet, so I'll withhold judgment, but there are a lot of players who will try and hide important cards like say GQ when you're beating them down with a man-land under another land of theirs. Having a clear, easy to interpret game-state should be a requirement.
I could accept someone making a mistake and even the quick attack due to the rush of it all if it weren't for the fact that he purposefully kept his hand over the land the whole time after he did it. Something really really unusual. He knew what he was doing. He may not have a cheating reputation but there is a first time for evrything and this is pretty obvious to me.
I don't have an opinion on the issue as a whole but if you actually watch Brad play at an event you'll notice he does that. I was watching him play a Jund mirror not on camera early on in the day at GP Charlotte when he had his hands over his lands. Even on today's SCG premium Standard VS video he had his lands covered for a bit. That's not much of a sign of cheating that's just how he plays. He doesn't seem like the kind of player who needs to cheat to win anyway.
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With the banning of twin comes the end of an era...
I'm not sold at all, ghost quarter gives him insurance against any manlands bos draws as well. It's too convenient and not a mistake people make in the heat of the moment.
I did oops on one occasion at the tail end of an event and tap a pair of Flooded Strands for mana. Mistakes do happen, especially when you're tired. Was that the case here? I don't know. It feels more than a little sketchy, but I've made some goofy mistakes towards the tail ends of tournaments myself, so it's hard to judge.
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
I don't think the Shoal version of Griselbrand Reanimator was, but Tin Fists and the traditional Grixis version both were on camera.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Edit: And the player is our very own Shadowgripper (Zac Elsik)
Edit #2:
In Modern, there is no clearly defined "Tier 1". There are about 20+ decks that all can compete on even terms, and in the hands of a skilled pilot, nearly anything can top-16 a Modern tournament.
There is nothing that is so powerful that it pushes other things to the side. RG Tron and Amulet Bloom are strong, but not clearly a step ahead of everything else, like in Legacy, where the blue decks running Dig through Time, Force of Will, and Brainstorm are about a step ahead of everything else in the format.
If you want to play Lantern Top Control, you can top-16 a big event. If you want to play Mono Blue Tron, you can top-16 a big event. If you want to play a Zoo deck, you can top-16 a big event. And so on.
I really hope there is a replay online. I am interested in watching it
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
I think, I found my new most favourite name of the deck
Very very interesting, especially the changes in Twin are interesting, since many people claimed that Grixis Twin is the best Twin deck atm. Also The Junk/Abzan changes were kinda surprising.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Also, on meta analysis, hard to talk about infect, boggles, and grixis twin. When a deck is either budget or brandi-new, you end up with a lot of players who don't necessarily have what it takes to make it all the way regardless of deck choice. Personally I think k-command isn't that insane against affinity, and there is a lot to be said about dodging match ups too.
The Jund/Abzan thing I'm still confused about. Pros hyped jund and the tables turned with Abzan being seemingly inferior, plenty of junk made day 2--but I think in about equal proportion to the proportion that showed up by comparison to jund. Unless the data point is saying that less junk showed up and even less performed well enough to make day 2 compared to jund. Would be curious to see. I had pretty good match ups in junk all day--lost to a nut boggles players, lost to a junk player with voice and no rhino, and lost to sultai midrange (the mirrors more due to no sideboard trumps against them more than anything).
http://modernnexus.com/gp-charlotte-metagame-review/
Like Alphe's analysis above, it looks at differences between the day 2 and he top 32. Unlike his, it also situates those differences in the broader metagme context leading up to the GP. This gives us some sense of how the decks fit into Modern as a whole, not just one GP. Big winners in my analysis include Naya Zoo and Abzan Company, along with UR Twin to a somewhat lesser extent. Jund underperformed, but relative to the god awful Abzan performance, is doing much better: this will end up being a win for Jund specifically because it's the better BGx deck of choice right now. Speaking of Abzan, both Abzan and Infect were huge losers at the GP, continuing the downward trajectory they have been on since April.
Looking forward to the rougue decks article. I've read a couple articles about Top Control, but none by someone who has overseen the deck's development and understands it. Nice.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Should have been caught in the moment. Brad isn't a cheat, no witch hunt required here.
The Charlotte videos that weren't specific round videos, though (such as the deck tech videos) aren't in that playlist, but they are on the channel.
I could accept someone making a mistake and even the quick attack due to the rush of it all if it weren't for the fact that he purposefully kept his hand over the land the whole time after he did it. Something really really unusual. He knew what he was doing. He may not have a cheating reputation but there is a first time for evrything and this is pretty obvious to me.
I've had SCG premium and watched heaps of vs videos. That's how Brad taps his lands with the palm like that.
I agree with this. Unfortunately this is the way he taps his lands. Now I'm not sure if he cheated or not (and I am one to jump quickly with my pitchfork), but I think we need more evidence.
Also, and I know this is not really proof but I'm just pointing it out, there doesn't appear to be a reason to fetch Ghost Quarter rather than just a Forest. I'm actually curious about what he did with that Ghost Quarter the rest of the game.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Covering his lands being a trademark of his could be a valid point against it being a cheat, but its not proof of it. I don't think there will be a way to prove it. But don't forget good cheaters also practice their cheats, specially when you play at tournament levels. He doesn't have a cheating reputation, maybe it was indeed a mistake, but that "trademark" was very convenient in that situation.
There is. I was reading some reddit about it. Boswell had a GQ of his own, fetching GQ instead of his forest guarantees a fetchable land in the library in case Boswell GQed his Raging Ravine, which would be convenient if the opponent drew a removal spell for Tarmogoyf. Which he did in the form of Lili.
Not only did he try to justify himself before anyone even accused him of it. But he also tried to explain the issue by saying he was trying to fetch the forest beside GQ and he was quickly called out on it because there was no Forest near GQ. Blackcleave cliffs was on one side, bloodstained mire on the other side. And apparently he passed a forest when he began searching.
Not like this issue really matters, but it really is very sketchy.
edit: it apparently went like this:
Starts search > Some cards > Forest > card > card > card > Card > Bloodstained mire > GQ > Blackcleave cliffs > Stop search > Play GQ.
I don't have an opinion on the issue as a whole but if you actually watch Brad play at an event you'll notice he does that. I was watching him play a Jund mirror not on camera early on in the day at GP Charlotte when he had his hands over his lands. Even on today's SCG premium Standard VS video he had his lands covered for a bit. That's not much of a sign of cheating that's just how he plays. He doesn't seem like the kind of player who needs to cheat to win anyway.
Mistakes happen.
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
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Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther