This is not a SCD for Shadow of Doubt, because I know that it sometimes sees play as a random 1-of in control decks and in some sideboards, because it cantrips at worst. This is a discussion of whether SoD is worth building around.
That would basically be a heavier mana denial plan in a Blue Moon shell. The logic behind this is that SoD makes it hard for our opponent to play around Blood Moon with his fetches. Of course once Blood Moon lands, then both SoD and GQ are turned off as well, but if Blood Moon is worth landing in the first place that would probably mean that we're winning anyway and basic Mountains and 2 mana cantrips are not completely worthless.
I had this idea to make a deck that uses Shadow of Doubt recently too.
Partially because I wanted to brew a Dimir control deck, but also because I wanted to give my Rakdos control deck another shot.
My main idea for the latter was something along the lines of t2 Shadow of Doubt into t3 Fulminator Mage, to slow the opponent down and deny resources.
Most decks use either fetches, which make SoD basically a cantripping Sinkhole (Oh my...), or some other form of tutoring. From Bloom and Tron to even Elves or Soul Sister, a lot of decks could get hit by it.
And in match-ups that don't it cantrips g1 and offers 4 free sideboard slots right away as well.
I'm interested in other people's ideas as well though. Shadow of Doubt seems like a really sweet and fun card to play, so I'm definitely looking forward to trying some shenanigans with it.
Only waiting for Fulminator Mages to get cheaper on Modo, now that MM2 is out, then I'll get a set of those 2. :3
Oh, I nearly forgot:
I like your Ghost Quarter plan. Abusing it is really fun, I love to do it in my Mill deck, though sadly there Shadow of Doubt would be rather counterproductive when it comes to getting Archive Traps in.
If you want to go Esper or Jeskai with your deck though you could also use SoD with Path of Exile, though that would make it "only" a cantripping Unmake with a slightly different cost.
Tired of losing to natural Tron or getting turn 2'd by Infect?
Standard infinite combos giving you a headache and the opponent always has Force of Will?
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Not sure how useful it is to go that deep into the "can't search" theme.
For such a deck Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter are more useful than Shadow of Doubt, due to their continuity.
Granted, Maralen can provide a fun softlock, though in that case an Isochron Scepter with Shadow of Doubt sounds like the best approach, as that would let us still tutor-draw and only lock out the opponent.
On the other hand, the lock needs to be tight, if they kept a Spell Snare or artifact removal or similar in hand, they get to tutor and sadness is likely to ensue. ^^
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Tired of losing to natural Tron or getting turn 2'd by Infect?
Standard infinite combos giving you a headache and the opponent always has Force of Will?
No matter the issue, there is one simple trick to solve all of your Magic problems!!
~~~To get in on the secret to eternal luck, skill and victory, just follow this link!!~~~
I agree that Ghost Quarter is a lot better in decks with Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor.
1) Path to Exile becomes drawback-free removal
2) you can pressure them with the 2/x while they're stuck on lands
Blue Moon is a control deck that uses Vedalken Shackles, so playing 4 non-Islands sounds like a bad idea.
I agree that Ghost Quarter is a lot better in decks with Leonin Arbiter and Aven Mindcensor.
1) Path to Exile becomes drawback-free removal
2) you can pressure them with the 2/x while they're stuck on lands
Blue Moon is a control deck that uses Vedalken Shackles, so playing 4 non-Islands sounds like a bad idea.
That's true. 4x Ghost Quarters might not be enough to justify a full set of Shadow of Doubts. As far as punishing the opponent while he's stuck on lands, Blood Moon does something similar. The idea of running mana denial in Blue Moon wouldn't be so much about messing with his mana development as in keeping him off of basics so that Blood Moon becomes a hard lock.
As far as Shackles go, I've had success with running 4+ non-islands in 2-3x Shackle builds before. Last time I tested it I think I came to the conclusion that it needed at least 19-20 Islands to work properly (18 Islands can work too, but it's far from optimal). So I don't think that running it a long GQ is unrealistic. I've run it in a Tezz shell with 4 Darksteel Citadels for instance.
The thing with Blood Moon is that a lot of the time it only works if the opponent doesn't expect it. That creates a lot of variance. This would be a way to remove some of the variance without over committing. Ghost Quarter doesn't take up any non-land slots and are good in some of the match ups where Shadow of Doubts is too slow and inefficient and would be boarded out (Infect and Affinity for instance).
Casting Shadow of Doubt and activating ghost quarter in the same turn is really inefficient. Consider Rain of Tears which does the same thing, for the same mana at sorcery speed and is only one card. You also have to sacrifice ghost quarter. If you could catch your opponent activating a fetchland, and then SoD and ghost quarter another land in response, it'd be worth it. But that's a trick I think that would only work once. All in all, I'd rather just cast Smallpox.
Casting Shadow of Doubt and activating ghost quarter in the same turn is really inefficient. Consider Rain of Tears which does the same thing, for the same mana at sorcery speed and is only one card. If you could catch your opponent activating a fetchland, and then SoD and ghost quarter in response, it'd be worth it. But that's a trick I think that would only work once.
True. But Shadow of Doubt and Ghost Quarter do other stuff too. That's like saying that either mode of Cryptic Command is inefficient (Fog + Draw seems pretty bad for 4 mana). And unlike Rain of Tears SoD is an Instant, so leaving up 3 mana for Remand, Electrolyze and whatnot and then go SoD + crack GQ EOT doesn't seem much more different than leaving up Think Twice.
Casting Shadow of Doubt and activating ghost quarter in the same turn is really inefficient. Consider Rain of Tears which does the same thing, for the same mana at sorcery speed and is only one card. You also have to sacrifice ghost quarter. If you could catch your opponent activating a fetchland, and then SoD and ghost quarter another land in response, it'd be worth it. But that's a trick I think that would only work once. All in all, I'd rather just cast Smallpox.
There is a subtle difference. This combo is instant and you lose a land rather than a card out of your hand since it cantrips.
So the question is which is better: being down 1 card in your hand or down 1 land.
So then it sorta matters what else you are doing like say running a card with delve which welcomes and extra thing in the grave.
To respond to the OP about whether the card is worth building around: NO. I love the thing, but the denial it provides isn't strong enough a strat in modern to build around.
Last night I played against RG tron with my junk deck. on the play I had turn 1 discard, took a sylvan scrying and saw 2 tron pieces, karn, and a few baubles. Turn 2 I played stony silence to lock him out of finding the third piece. Turn 3 he drew it anyway, played it and won the game. Its the same plan, failing.
The same thing will happen to you, but like--all the time.
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Something like this:
4 Shadow of Doubt
3 Blood Moon
That would basically be a heavier mana denial plan in a Blue Moon shell. The logic behind this is that SoD makes it hard for our opponent to play around Blood Moon with his fetches. Of course once Blood Moon lands, then both SoD and GQ are turned off as well, but if Blood Moon is worth landing in the first place that would probably mean that we're winning anyway and basic Mountains and 2 mana cantrips are not completely worthless.
Partially because I wanted to brew a Dimir control deck, but also because I wanted to give my Rakdos control deck another shot.
My main idea for the latter was something along the lines of t2 Shadow of Doubt into t3 Fulminator Mage, to slow the opponent down and deny resources.
Most decks use either fetches, which make SoD basically a cantripping Sinkhole (Oh my...), or some other form of tutoring. From Bloom and Tron to even Elves or Soul Sister, a lot of decks could get hit by it.
And in match-ups that don't it cantrips g1 and offers 4 free sideboard slots right away as well.
I'm interested in other people's ideas as well though. Shadow of Doubt seems like a really sweet and fun card to play, so I'm definitely looking forward to trying some shenanigans with it.
Only waiting for Fulminator Mages to get cheaper on Modo, now that MM2 is out, then I'll get a set of those 2. :3
Oh, I nearly forgot:
I like your Ghost Quarter plan. Abusing it is really fun, I love to do it in my Mill deck, though sadly there Shadow of Doubt would be rather counterproductive when it comes to getting Archive Traps in.
If you want to go Esper or Jeskai with your deck though you could also use SoD with Path of Exile, though that would make it "only" a cantripping Unmake with a slightly different cost.
Standard infinite combos giving you a headache and the opponent always has Force of Will?
No matter the issue, there is one simple trick to solve all of your Magic problems!!
~~~To get in on the secret to eternal luck, skill and victory, just follow this link!!~~~
-Maralen of the Mornsong
-Leonin Arbiter
-Cosi's Trickster
-Mindlock Orb
-Path to Exile
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
For such a deck Aven Mindcensor and Leonin Arbiter are more useful than Shadow of Doubt, due to their continuity.
Granted, Maralen can provide a fun softlock, though in that case an Isochron Scepter with Shadow of Doubt sounds like the best approach, as that would let us still tutor-draw and only lock out the opponent.
On the other hand, the lock needs to be tight, if they kept a Spell Snare or artifact removal or similar in hand, they get to tutor and sadness is likely to ensue. ^^
Standard infinite combos giving you a headache and the opponent always has Force of Will?
No matter the issue, there is one simple trick to solve all of your Magic problems!!
~~~To get in on the secret to eternal luck, skill and victory, just follow this link!!~~~
1) Path to Exile becomes drawback-free removal
2) you can pressure them with the 2/x while they're stuck on lands
Blue Moon is a control deck that uses Vedalken Shackles, so playing 4 non-Islands sounds like a bad idea.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
That's true. 4x Ghost Quarters might not be enough to justify a full set of Shadow of Doubts. As far as punishing the opponent while he's stuck on lands, Blood Moon does something similar. The idea of running mana denial in Blue Moon wouldn't be so much about messing with his mana development as in keeping him off of basics so that Blood Moon becomes a hard lock.
As far as Shackles go, I've had success with running 4+ non-islands in 2-3x Shackle builds before. Last time I tested it I think I came to the conclusion that it needed at least 19-20 Islands to work properly (18 Islands can work too, but it's far from optimal). So I don't think that running it a long GQ is unrealistic. I've run it in a Tezz shell with 4 Darksteel Citadels for instance.
The thing with Blood Moon is that a lot of the time it only works if the opponent doesn't expect it. That creates a lot of variance. This would be a way to remove some of the variance without over committing. Ghost Quarter doesn't take up any non-land slots and are good in some of the match ups where Shadow of Doubts is too slow and inefficient and would be boarded out (Infect and Affinity for instance).
True. But Shadow of Doubt and Ghost Quarter do other stuff too. That's like saying that either mode of Cryptic Command is inefficient (Fog + Draw seems pretty bad for 4 mana). And unlike Rain of Tears SoD is an Instant, so leaving up 3 mana for Remand, Electrolyze and whatnot and then go SoD + crack GQ EOT doesn't seem much more different than leaving up Think Twice.
There is a subtle difference. This combo is instant and you lose a land rather than a card out of your hand since it cantrips.
So the question is which is better: being down 1 card in your hand or down 1 land.
So then it sorta matters what else you are doing like say running a card with delve which welcomes and extra thing in the grave.
Last night I played against RG tron with my junk deck. on the play I had turn 1 discard, took a sylvan scrying and saw 2 tron pieces, karn, and a few baubles. Turn 2 I played stony silence to lock him out of finding the third piece. Turn 3 he drew it anyway, played it and won the game. Its the same plan, failing.
The same thing will happen to you, but like--all the time.