A lot assuming they don't have a bounceland, Amulet, Summer Bloom, and Titan. It still isn't enough though, as the last Modern PT with Amulet in the finals had the Amulet player playing on camera against one and still managed to win.
Wow, that deck still amazes me. So from what you're saying it's like a hit or miss?
Except that a 'hit' is more like a small annoying hinderance that pales in comparison to a Blood Moon.
A lot assuming they don't have a bounceland, Amulet, Summer Bloom, and Titan. It still isn't enough though, as the last Modern PT with Amulet in the finals had the Amulet player playing on camera against one and still managed to win.
In fairness, I'm pretty sure he searched the top 4 cards of his library and just got really, REALLY lucky in finding what he needed. If that hadn't happened, he probably would have lost. So I'd say that in the average game, Mindcensor is still very strong against Amulet.
A lot assuming they don't have a bounceland, Amulet, Summer Bloom, and Titan. It still isn't enough though, as the last Modern PT with Amulet in the finals had the Amulet player playing on camera against one and still managed to win.
In fairness, I'm pretty sure he searched the top 4 cards of his library and just got really, REALLY lucky in finding what he needed. If that hadn't happened, he probably would have lost. So I'd say that in the average game, Mindcensor is still very strong against Amulet.
Off topic a little. No reprints for amulet bloom or scape shift. Either reprinting in origins because they won't effect standard to much or I smell a ban coming. Wizards hates turn 0-1 wins.
A lot assuming they don't have a bounceland, Amulet, Summer Bloom, and Titan. It still isn't enough though, as the last Modern PT with Amulet in the finals had the Amulet player playing on camera against one and still managed to win.
He found the exact two cards that he needed in the top 4 cards. That was extremely lucky and shouldn't be used as an argument against the card.
Anyway the card is nice. Tron and Amulet are obviously hurt the most by it but you can play it against any deck with fetchlands. It will be tough for you opponent to decide if he wants to crack his fetch or not. Since he could just stone rain himself if he does that and even he does find something it would probably not be the land the he wanted to get.
I have to somehow mitigate what Galerion said.
Imagine you're playing against Naya-Zoo, a deck that undoubtedly relies on fetching - by the time your Aven Mindcensor hits the board, he will have fetched twice or thrice (depending if you're on the play/draw), allowing him to get at least Stomping Ground + Plains, which allows him to breed and reach the full potential of Wild Nacatl, Kird Ape and Loam Lion.
I don't feel anymore that Aven Mindcensor is worth multiple SB slots in any deck that can afford it. All depends of your local meta. If you're going to a GP/PTQ and therefore can't know what you're gonna be matched against, consider bringing one in as, for the reasons aforementioned, it's still nigh-game against some specific decks.
Of course Aven is an aggressive, disruptive creature. It's not as simple as fetchlands = good.
It's only useful against decks where you don't have to play the control role. In matchups where you have to a 2/1 flyer isn't exactly a good defensive creature and Zoo is one of those decks.
But against Midrange and Control you can think about playing him.
Of course Aven is an aggressive, disruptive creature. It's not as simple as fetchlands = good.
It's only useful against decks where you don't have to play the control role. In matchups where you have to a 2/1 flyer isn't exactly a good defensive creature and Zoo is one of those decks.
But against Midrange and Control you can think about playing him.
I consider it as true and relevant but strictly taking about meta, let's ask the following question :
"Would I like to have Aven Mindcensor against Tier 1 decks ?"
Let's consider the Tier 1 list :
1. Burn (9.3 percent) : Doesn't have to search library if plays mono-red, can just wreck Mindcensor anyhow : Irrelevant
2. Junk (9.2 percent) : Tends to fetch a lot due to a 3-color mana base, doesn't search library apart from that : Might be relevant
3. UR Twin (9.2) : Often has to fetch after Mindcensor, but doesn't hard-tutor Twin and runs 1-3 MDElectrolyze : Might be relevant
4. Affinity (6.6) : Almost never searches library : Irrelevant
5. Grixis Delver (4.8) : Might fetch after turn 3, can often bear not doing so though, Mindcensor is gonna eat a cheap removal anyhow : Scarcely relevant
6. Infect (4.6) : Scarcely fetches more than twice : Irrelevant
Tell me if you disagree on any point, but IMHO there are few situations those days where I find myself thinking during sideboarding phase : "F***, I'm missing an Aven Mindcensor in my SB".
If those are the decks you are preparing for then yes I agree with you.
Those aren't the only decks in Modern though. And if you fear facing Tron or Amulet Bloom because you deck doesn't have the best matchup against them then you can think about running him.
It depends on what you are expecting to face. Tier lists aren't as relevant for local events where you know the meta.
It's a lot better when Pod and Scapeshift was a bigger part of the meta.
It also lowers the drawback on Path to Exile and Ghost Quarter. D&T is based around the disruptive core of Leonin Arbiter + Aven Mindcensor + Path + GQ. D&T isn't very good now; as I mentioned earlier Pod and Scapeshift have dipped (the current "Pod" deck doesn't search its library as often as before), so you have less free wins. Also, D&T's beaters are 3/xs (Blade Splicer, Flickerwisp, Restoration Angel), which can't really race or block 4/5s, especially if those 4/5s drain 3 on ETB.
Aven mindcensor also shuts off chord of calling for Abzan Company which uses it to find combo pieces. The "golden age of pod" might not be quite as far in the rear view as some are depicting. With the fetch density of the format, there are few decks that are not vulnerable to getting stone rained at instant speed.
edit: Burn tends to run 10-12 fetches, so that deck is somewhat vulnerable to it (low mana curve mitigates this). Mono-red burn is not a tier 1 deck as far as I can tell.
Grixis delver and jund each run about 8 fetches, so again the instant stone rain is real here too.
Pod was much more heavily affected by Mindcensor because:
1) if you whiff with Pod when Mindcensor is on your opponent's side, you're down 1 creature or half a creature (Finks, Voice) for nothing
2) Chord is less likely to whiff because it says X or less, so while you may not be able to get the exact card you wanted, you're still likely to get some value out of it
How often it Stone Rains your opponent is also dependent on how fast you can get it out. If you're playing Birds or Hierarch you can T2 it, while if you're playing UWR or no mana dorks the earliest you'll cast it is T3. That gives your opponent time to play around it - he can crack his fetches on turns 1&2 and sandbag his non-fetches for turns 3&4. Add one turn if you're on the draw.
Blood moon can be used by 3 colour decks - it wrecks decks they need it against worse than the temur (moon), naya (zoo) or jeskai (control) deck bringing it in. If they put the card in the sideboard, they've made concessions in the manabase for it.
Instead, blood moon is simply not a threat. If you are playing a proactive game, bloodmoon isn't congruous with that plan. Similarly, Shadow of doubt is a reactionary card and not appropriate for a proactive deck.
In short, blood moon and shadow of doubt are not proactive like aven mindcensor, and play differently in the decks that employ them.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
I dont know if this is classified as Necro threading, but I want to ask about MindCensor. How effectively is he currently in the meta? I know he hates against Scapeshift, Tron and Bloom, but how much damage would mind censor do if you are also running a 3 color deck with 9 fetches? (I'm using him in the sideboard)
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I dont know if this is classified as Necro threading, but I want to ask about MindCensor. How effectively is he currently in the meta? I know he hates against Scapeshift, Tron and Bloom, but how much damage would mind censor do if you are also running a 3 color deck with 9 fetches? (I'm using him in the sideboard)
The bird is fine. The real issue is that it doesn't have many homes. I've tried running it in a split with Cliques (they're somewhat similar in that both are 3 cmc flash disruption spells that are horrid against Electrolyze/Forked Bolt) but I always find myself cutting them.
That said, they're definitely not bad I just feel that you need to be doing a lot of things at instant to play them because if you play it your opponent will crack fetches in response and you get no value. That means you need to be holding 3 mana up all the time (which comes back to why I like it alongside Clique... but you can only run so many 3's).
The better way I should phrase this question should prob be. I know he is good. But is he 'better' of a sideboard card than say Vendilion Clique or Fuminator Mage as a 3 drop?
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
The better way I should phrase this question should prob be. I know he is good. But is he 'better' of a sideboard card than say Vendilion Clique or Fuminator Mage as a 3 drop?
All three cards are in different colors and do different things against different decks. They are not interchangeable and therefore neither card is "better" than the other. You can bring Mindcensor in the matchups against decks reliant on their fetches or are heavy on search effects like Amulet Bloom.
Ive had a 2 of in my 4 color zoo board, and I'm loving him. Bringing him in against 4 color decks, tron, zoo, jund, junk, amulet. Since all I seem to be playing online right now is amulet, junk/d and tron, its awesome.
I mean, of course it also messes up their fetchlands and is great when ran in unison with Ghost Quarter / Path to Exile - i'd say it's as much a consideration of what decks it's good AGAINST as it is a consideration of what decks it's good IN.
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Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
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So how useful is this guy in the current meta?
How much does it hurt Amulet Bloom?
Is it worth a couple sideboard slots?
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Except that a 'hit' is more like a small annoying hinderance that pales in comparison to a Blood Moon.
In fairness, I'm pretty sure he searched the top 4 cards of his library and just got really, REALLY lucky in finding what he needed. If that hadn't happened, he probably would have lost. So I'd say that in the average game, Mindcensor is still very strong against Amulet.
Off topic a little. No reprints for amulet bloom or scape shift. Either reprinting in origins because they won't effect standard to much or I smell a ban coming. Wizards hates turn 0-1 wins.
He found the exact two cards that he needed in the top 4 cards. That was extremely lucky and shouldn't be used as an argument against the card.
Anyway the card is nice. Tron and Amulet are obviously hurt the most by it but you can play it against any deck with fetchlands. It will be tough for you opponent to decide if he wants to crack his fetch or not. Since he could just stone rain himself if he does that and even he does find something it would probably not be the land the he wanted to get.
Of course Aven is an aggressive, disruptive creature. It's not as simple as fetchlands = good.
It's only useful against decks where you don't have to play the control role. In matchups where you have to a 2/1 flyer isn't exactly a good defensive creature and Zoo is one of those decks.
But against Midrange and Control you can think about playing him.
If those are the decks you are preparing for then yes I agree with you.
Those aren't the only decks in Modern though. And if you fear facing Tron or Amulet Bloom because you deck doesn't have the best matchup against them then you can think about running him.
It depends on what you are expecting to face. Tier lists aren't as relevant for local events where you know the meta.
It also lowers the drawback on Path to Exile and Ghost Quarter. D&T is based around the disruptive core of Leonin Arbiter + Aven Mindcensor + Path + GQ. D&T isn't very good now; as I mentioned earlier Pod and Scapeshift have dipped (the current "Pod" deck doesn't search its library as often as before), so you have less free wins. Also, D&T's beaters are 3/xs (Blade Splicer, Flickerwisp, Restoration Angel), which can't really race or block 4/5s, especially if those 4/5s drain 3 on ETB.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
edit: Burn tends to run 10-12 fetches, so that deck is somewhat vulnerable to it (low mana curve mitigates this). Mono-red burn is not a tier 1 deck as far as I can tell.
Grixis delver and jund each run about 8 fetches, so again the instant stone rain is real here too.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
1) if you whiff with Pod when Mindcensor is on your opponent's side, you're down 1 creature or half a creature (Finks, Voice) for nothing
2) Chord is less likely to whiff because it says X or less, so while you may not be able to get the exact card you wanted, you're still likely to get some value out of it
How often it Stone Rains your opponent is also dependent on how fast you can get it out. If you're playing Birds or Hierarch you can T2 it, while if you're playing UWR or no mana dorks the earliest you'll cast it is T3. That gives your opponent time to play around it - he can crack his fetches on turns 1&2 and sandbag his non-fetches for turns 3&4. Add one turn if you're on the draw.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
Instead, blood moon is simply not a threat. If you are playing a proactive game, bloodmoon isn't congruous with that plan. Similarly, Shadow of doubt is a reactionary card and not appropriate for a proactive deck.
In short, blood moon and shadow of doubt are not proactive like aven mindcensor, and play differently in the decks that employ them.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
He's also very good in a Death and Taxes/GW hatebears deck that also runs leonin arbiter, path to exile, and ghost quarter.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
The bird is fine. The real issue is that it doesn't have many homes. I've tried running it in a split with Cliques (they're somewhat similar in that both are 3 cmc flash disruption spells that are horrid against Electrolyze/Forked Bolt) but I always find myself cutting them.
That said, they're definitely not bad I just feel that you need to be doing a lot of things at instant to play them because if you play it your opponent will crack fetches in response and you get no value. That means you need to be holding 3 mana up all the time (which comes back to why I like it alongside Clique... but you can only run so many 3's).
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
Scapeshift, Chord*
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki